HH 2.0 The Prosperine Glass Pyramids: XVth Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Thousand Sons in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[Excessus]

...I wanna make a recon company list with Magistus Amon now. :) On top of his cool rules he actually have an Iron Halo now as well as his shrouded damage mitigation.

 

 

Question one: How much do you think we'll face off against snipers that can pick off our sergeants?

 

Question two: How awesome did the Khenetai Blades become? It's a shame they can't use their psychic power if a character or apothecary joins them...

 

Question three: I love the fact that Adamantium Will gives protection against perils wounds nowadays...it's not a question but I love it anyway! <3

[ImNegan]

Hmmm, guess there's not a lot of thousand sons players around these days?!

[stretch_135]

Been playing around with a Guard of the Crimson King list, but the lack of line on Sekhmet really hurts. Ended up throwing some barebones Tac Squads in just for scoring. Anyone else found an effective list using GotCK yet?

[raloon]

18 hours ago, stretch_135 said:

Been playing around with a Guard of the Crimson King list, but the lack of line on Sekhmet really hurts. Ended up throwing some barebones Tac Squads in just for scoring. Anyone else found an effective list using GotCK yet?

Still worth taking in my opinion to free up the elites slots for some dreads which are really good this edition. I've been doing 2x5 sekhmet, 10 tacs, 10 despoilers. Another option is to throw a herald in the squad and make them line.

[stretch_135]

4 hours ago, raloon said:

Still worth taking in my opinion to free up the elites slots for some dreads which are really good this edition. I've been doing 2x5 sekhmet, 10 tacs, 10 despoilers. Another option is to throw a herald in the squad and make them line.

Herald's an interesting thought. I'll have to have a play around with that one. Thanks.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

What are peoples thoughts on the new rules for equipment:

Asphyx bolters for all (at a price)

New demi-force weapons

Aether fire weapons being available for all plasma weapons?

 

I had a thought about breachers with asphyx bolters and the +1 to invunerable saves - it may surprise a few people

[raloon]

7 hours ago, Wolf Lord Loki said:

What are peoples thoughts on the new rules for equipment:

Asphyx bolters for all (at a price)

New demi-force weapons

Aether fire weapons being available for all plasma weapons?

 

I had a thought about breachers with asphyx bolters and the +1 to invunerable saves - it may surprise a few people

Asphyx isnt bad on basic tac squads. Fury of the Legion triggers quite a bit now, which may compensate for lost rapid fire shots from the shorter range. For breachers its probably not a bad upgrade, if you think you'll end up danger-close with them, but I haven't run breachers myself to confirm.

Love the Achea-force weapon upgrades. If you're taking the power weapon upgrade on a Sgt, its strictly better, since you can't perils. Achea-force mauls are my go-to. Having ID at initiative is pretty great, even if its only AP3. My sekhmet are 3xAF mauls, 2x Thunderhammers

Aether-fire is still useless. Swapping breaching4 for rending6 eliminates why you take plasma in the first place.

Edit: Forum doesn't like me abbreviating "Achea-force"

Edited August 10, 2022 by raloon

[Wolf Lord Loki]

@raloon so could you explain to me what the difference between rending and breaching is without me having to back and forth looking for it please?

[OnyxUltraKnight]

@Wolf Lord Loki Rending always wounds the target at AP2 when you hit the figure in the brackets, irrespective of toughness value.

 

Breaching wounds at AP2 if it hits the figure in the brackets and that wound roll is normally able to wound the target; ie a S5 Weapon with Breaching(4+) would need to roll a 6 to wound a T7 target, but every wound would be at AP2 - if the weapon was S5 Rending(4+) then all wound rolls of 4 or better would successfully wound at AP2.

 

hope that makes sense

[Cactus]

Rending can also affect the roll to penetrate vehicle armour, Breaching cannot.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:24 PM, OnyxUltraKnight said:

@Wolf Lord Loki Rending always wounds the target at AP2 when you hit the figure in the brackets, irrespective of toughness value.

 

Breaching wounds at AP2 if it hits the figure in the brackets and that wound roll is normally able to wound the target; ie a S5 Weapon with Breaching(4+) would need to roll a 6 to wound a T7 target, but every wound would be at AP2 - if the weapon was S5 Rending(4+) then all wound rolls of 4 or better would successfully wound at AP2.

 

hope that makes sense

I decidedly to go and do the research anyway.

On their basic profile aetherfire are slightly shorter range, a point less strength but they don't get hot. The Ap2 effect only triggers on a 6. With a successful pychic test (that won't trigger Perils) you can bump the strength to enough to trigger instant death.

Surely there must be some way of leaveraging this?

[raloon]

6 hours ago, Wolf Lord Loki said:

I decidedly to go and do the research anyway.

On their basic profile aetherfire are slightly shorter range, a point less strength but they don't get hot. The Ap2 effect only triggers on a 6. With a successful pychic test (that won't trigger Perils) you can bump the strength to enough to trigger instant death.

Surely there must be some way of leaveraging this?

To what end? If you want AP2 to kill TEQs, plasma gets AP2 more often. It's not ID against termies, but you're not getting many wounds through a 2+ anyway with aether-fire. If you want to kill armor more consistently with S8, melta gets you there without the psychic hoops, at around the same ranges, and always at AP1. There may be some corner cases where Aether-fire plasma is better but on the whole there are just better, more consistent options.

Edited August 12, 2022 by raloon

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Has anyone got any good tactics or ideas for using our special units?

I have a 5 man sekhmet squad (in Tartarus armour so that will have to be counts as....) 

But have yet to invest in the contemptors or the Khenetai blades (which I love the concept of if not the awkward poses)

I was theming previously on a Pride of the Legion list with Arhaman.

 

Any suggestions honours magi?

 

Ps:. What are peoples thoughts on Scouts Vs Recon Vs our special snipers?  It occurred to me that I want to ensure complete control over use of pychic powers and having a dedicated team to eliminate those that might be able to resist my abilities might not be a bad plan

Edited August 14, 2022 by Wolf Lord Loki
Additional thoughts

[StrangerOrders]

So I'm finally building my Sekhmet but I'm at a bit of a block with the loadouts, what are folks running and any advice?

[Chaoself]

I  have only played one game of second Edition so far. I went with with achean axes with one or two powerfists in in the Mix. 

Was quite happy with the result.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Chaoself

[Chaoself]

Yesterday I played another 1.250 Points game. I'm still unsure about the new psychic rules. The price for a failed psy- tests feels very hard to me.

What are others thoughts on that?

[ImNegan]

Used this list this weekend in a three game narrative event at JustPlay in Liverpool.

 

A few observations, hopefully it helps someone.

 

Brilliant event, well organised and a great bunch of players if anyone here lives nearby. 

 

Next event is on November 12th.

 

Anyway, post event analysis.

 

Won 2 - Iron Hands and Fists.

Lost 1 - Mechanicum.

 

Leadership 10 psykers (chaplain and preator) with Telepathy were very strong against marines. Both pinning 1 unit a turn. plus bonus pinnings with reactions. I thought only having 2 of my 4 psykers with it was taming it down. But it led to a poor gaming experience for my opponents, so I'll probably restrict this to just one in future.

 

Same two psykers had Pavoni arcana, which let the two squads of veterans rush forward and grab objectives 1st/2nd turns. Which, combined with the telepathy, proved impossible to shift off them all game.

 

Melta Leviathan was a decent take. Best use was real world psychology. I deployed first all three games and used it to deter Spartans loaded with death stars from deploying near the objectives I wanted.

 

Scouts with snipers are a good distraction carnifex, people went out their way to kill them with way more fire power than needed.

 

Pride of the legion is a decent row for us. Having almost my whole army having two wounds and ws5 made them tough to crack if anything did make it into combat.

 

Biomancy on the Sekhmet Sarg will always be my go to. 5 man squad with axes, biomancy and a pyromancy/Pavoni herald made them a mobile, tough, hard hitting unit that could reach out and disrupt enemy movement of needed.

 

Overall this force proved tough to kill, mobile and highly effective at disrupting the other guys movement.

 

The match against Mechanicum was Tough with their shooting and fearless. However it was fun, especially when robots started exploding each other. It was a hard counter to my list though. A good learning experience. 

 

++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart (LA - XV: Thousand Sons) [2,000Pts]

 

+ Rite of War: +

 

Rite of War: Pride Of The Legion

 

+ HQ: +

 

. Chaplain: Artificer Armour, Cult Arcana Discipline, Pavoni, Psychic Discipline: Telepathy

. . Bolt Pistol

. . Power Weapon: Power Axe

 

. Herald: Chainfist, Cult Arcana Discipline, Legion Standard, Pavoni, Psychic Discipline: Pyromancy

 

. Legion Praetor: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Cult Arcana Discipline, Paragon Blade, Pavoni, Psychic Discipline: Telepathy

 

+ Elites: +

 

. Contemptor Dreadnought: Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Lascannon

 

Khenetai Occult Cabal 5x Bolt Pistol, 4x Khenetai Blades

. Khenetai Blademaster: Artificer Armour

 

Sekhmet Terminator Cabal

 Pyrae

. Sekhmet: Achea Force Axe, Combi-Bolter

. Sekhmet: Achea Force Axe, Combi-Bolter

. Sekhmet: Achea Force Axe, Combi-Bolter

. Sekhmet: Achea Force Axe, Combi-Bolter

. Sekhmet Inceptor: Achea Force Maul, Combi-Bolter

. . Psychic Discipline: Psychic Discipline: Biomancy

 

Veteran Squad Augury Scanner, Legion Vexilla

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran: Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol

. Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Asphyx Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Pyrae

. . Power Weapon: Power Lance

. Veteran w/Heavy/Special Weapon (1 in 5): Bolt Pistol, Æther-Fire Blaster

. Veteran w/Heavy/Special Weapon (1 in 5): Bolt Pistol, Æther-Fire Blaster

 

Veteran Squad

Augury Scanner, Legion Vexilla

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran: Bolt Pistol, Bolter

. Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Pyrae

. . Power Weapon: Power Lance

 

+ Troops: +

 

Scout Squad

. 0) Legion Scout Sergeant: Athanaen, Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter

. 1) Legion Scout: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter

. 1) Legion Scout: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter

. 1) Legion Scout: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter

. 1) Legion Scout: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter

 

+ Heavy Support: +

 

Leviathan Dreadnought Talon

. Leviathan: 2x Heavy Flamers, Cyclonic Melta Lance, Leviathan Siege Drill

 

++ Total: [2,000Pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[Malach Adonai]

Thanks for sharing, bud. Very interesting list.

How did you find the veterans vs the more traditional tacticals + apothecary for sitting on contested objectives?
And the asphyx + power lance? I see a lot of people reporting that the asphyx shells didn't do much, and I rarely see lances on the field. How did you find they performed?

[Brofist]

My friend let me borrow his TKsons while I work on my WS army. At this point I think I'll ally in TKsons for my big 3k list. I find the core rules very solid even if you have the chance to fail and lose some guys.

 

I've found court of the crimson king to be very powerful, with solid synergy from Ahriman. Combine this with the new numerologists and you have a very nasty combo for playing a deepstrike assault army backed by a firing line. I tried telepathy spam and even with two units having it, also found it unfun for both myself and my opponent. I think I'll use no more than one in the future, maybe none.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So I have decided that for my traitor army I'm going to call all in with k sons. The Guardians of the Crimson King right of War offers so many opportunities, as well as this Legion having the ability to take any of the rights of War and still be good.

 

My first unit will be a 20 man despoilers squad with telepathy chaplain and Apothecary to deep strike in on an objective. 

 

Another unit I'm excited to make is a 10 flamer/Heavy flamer squad with chainswords to deep strike in and BBQ a unit, maybe multiple. Absolutely have to have a Numerologist for reserve re-rolls and giving tanks or shooty units BS 2. I think Amon will go great with a unit of Seekers (if I take him) Ahriman is "okay" but the model will make a solid praetor.

 

Then I may work on getting some of the more exclusive units from forgeworld. But for now I've got a base of units I'm excited to play with.

 

Thoughts?

[Friday]

Fan of the Numerologist

Fan of 20 despoilers with Chaplain and Apoth

 

For the other 5 units deep striking I suggest 10x Meltagun support squads for the lulz.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Meltacide is pretty dope. 330 points though. I don't know if the trades would be worth it. A flamer squad with chainswords is cheap, and can trade better. Though a squad of meltacide may be worth the intercepts drawing away from melee etc.

[Brofist]

I've come around on melta. There's a reason it costs so much. They remove 2W elites and terminators who make up the best, most dangerous, units in the game. A flamer squad isn't going to do that for you... though if you're hunting tacticals or something sure, go ahead.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I'm not mad at the idea. Would need to be 10 strong though!