Sign In
Create Account
PROJECT: Raven guard
Aim:
What I am trying to do is create a database information about using, modeling, painting, creating army lists and collecting Raven guard for newly fledged players or even the seasoned veteran.
Method:
Each month we will move along to a selection of the force organization chart (e.g. HQ, Fast attack) and analyze it. Once every one has had a healthy discussion about the do’s and don’ts of collecting, creating army lists, painting and using the Raven Guard selection being discussed, the board members of the B&C will (hopefully) collaborate the efforts into one article each week/fortnight/month relevant to the force organization slot being discussed.
NOTE!!!: A few others and I will be helping to keep this project on track, PM me if you want to help or got an idea for the project. E.g. proof reading, editing ect.
The layout will be something along the lines of this:
------------------------------------------------------------
Using
(e.g. chaplains effectively, placing of drop pods, assault squads)
Basically once every one has discussed there opinions and tactics on using what is being discussed effectively, it will be all bound/posted together here.
In a layout like this one
Librarians
Insert all tactics with librarians that are useful
Force commanders
“ “
Command squads (etc)
“ “
Collecting
(e.g. what are good buys for the section being discussed)
Army lists
Place an army list with units relevant to what’s being discussed
Painting/Converting OR (P&C):
Good conversion/painting ideas for Raven guard (HQ, FA, whatever is being discussed in the Force organization slot)
This is a chance to show off your awesome modeling and painting skills!!!
----------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT!!!
I encourage every body to participate in PROJECT: Raven guard™
as PROJECT: Raven Guard™ is not solely confined to Raven guard players.
*I will be speaking to the Mod’s about appointing people who want to do the other IA chapters*
All I can say now is that welcome to a new era in gaming.
Hope you all enjoy!
*Coop cuts ribbon, officially opening PROJECT: Raven Guard*
LFC!
Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
PROJECT: Raven Guard
Started by
long fang coop
, Feb 26 2005 01:46 AM
#1
Posted 26 February 2005 - 01:46 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
Back to top
#2
Posted 27 February 2005 - 02:10 PM
SCC
-
- +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
-
- 7,217 posts
++UNGUIS AENEI++
OK, let's kick this off with some discussion on the most basic part of any Marine list - 2 compulsory Troops choices...
Options
Tactical Squad
Scout Squad
Analysis
Tactical Squad
Note: The Trait No mercy, no respite gives RG players the opportunity to grant Tac squads the Furious Assault skill.
The Trait Flesh over steel changes any squad taking a Transport option into the FA category.
The core unit of a Marine army Tac squads are tough, versatile and can be customised for various roles. When picking Tac Squads as compulsory Troops choices I suggest full sized squads with both a heavy and a special weapon. Personally I like the ML/ Plasma Gun combo for these squads myself as it's flexible and relatively cheap, serving adequately in both the AT and AP role when necessary.
Squad Options:
Sergeant - I'd arm him with the BP/CCW option for a little extra CC power in case the squad is charged or needs to charge itself.
Squad - No transport option, no squad upgrades, save the points (and the FA slot) for other units. I wouldn't take Furious Assault for this kind of squad simply because it's role is to deliver accurate, hard hitting firepower, not overwhelm the enemy in hand to hand fighting.
Battlefield Role: Firebase. This kind of basically equipped Tac squad best serves as a medium ranged firebase, it can move without diluting it's firepower too much too so it retains a degree of mobility. Entering CC with a squad like this should only be done in desperate moments or if conditions are strongly in your favour, otherwise this squad is much better off engaging in brutal, short-ranged firefights.
Scouts
Though not as common as Tactical Squads most Marine detachments would probably include Scouts for, well, scouting. Whilst not as tough as Tactical Marines Scouts are cheaper, can infiltrate and have a wider choice of weaponry. As with a compulsory choice Tac Squad I'd plump for the full sized squad here and keep the equipment pretty simple, bolters all 'round with a Heavy Bolter for support, the HB is cheap and it's shorter range is compensated for by the Infiltrate capability.
Squad Options
Sergeant - BP/CCW, again, just adds a litle extra pepper if the squad ends up in CC.
Squad - Zilch.
Battlefield Role
I'd use this squad to deny space to move to the enemy and threaten a flank. Placed out on a flank it can lay down a heavy curtain of fire and given you can start it fairly close o the enemy this squad can start to funnel an enemy into the rest of your firepower. Like the 'basic' Tac squad it can move without significant reduction in firepower and this mobility allows it to continue funneling your enemy to your strength even after deployment. Adding a teleport homer (with TH Sgt) can of course, allow the squad to bring in their more experienced brethren rapidly and accurately. Adding Sniper Rifles is always an option but will increase the importance of properly placing the squad during your initial deployment, it also restricts your mobility to a degree as movement results in loss of firepower.
My choice?
2 Tactical Squads. They're tough, have plenty of firepower and a degree of mobility. Why not choose the Scouts? Couple of reasons, first I prefer the Marine models, second as the basic building block of an army the Tac squad is a tougher and third the Tac squad has a little more anti armour firepower. For an RG army Scouts are nice and fluffy but my choice would be to choose them as optional Troops and to kit them out more fully.
My key objective when picking compulsory Troops choices is to get units that can fulfill a variety of roles against a variety of foes and that don't eat up too many points, with that in mind the Tactical Squad is king of the hill.
Options
Tactical Squad
Scout Squad
Analysis
Tactical Squad
Note: The Trait No mercy, no respite gives RG players the opportunity to grant Tac squads the Furious Assault skill.
The Trait Flesh over steel changes any squad taking a Transport option into the FA category.
The core unit of a Marine army Tac squads are tough, versatile and can be customised for various roles. When picking Tac Squads as compulsory Troops choices I suggest full sized squads with both a heavy and a special weapon. Personally I like the ML/ Plasma Gun combo for these squads myself as it's flexible and relatively cheap, serving adequately in both the AT and AP role when necessary.
Squad Options:
Sergeant - I'd arm him with the BP/CCW option for a little extra CC power in case the squad is charged or needs to charge itself.
Squad - No transport option, no squad upgrades, save the points (and the FA slot) for other units. I wouldn't take Furious Assault for this kind of squad simply because it's role is to deliver accurate, hard hitting firepower, not overwhelm the enemy in hand to hand fighting.
Battlefield Role: Firebase. This kind of basically equipped Tac squad best serves as a medium ranged firebase, it can move without diluting it's firepower too much too so it retains a degree of mobility. Entering CC with a squad like this should only be done in desperate moments or if conditions are strongly in your favour, otherwise this squad is much better off engaging in brutal, short-ranged firefights.
Scouts
Though not as common as Tactical Squads most Marine detachments would probably include Scouts for, well, scouting. Whilst not as tough as Tactical Marines Scouts are cheaper, can infiltrate and have a wider choice of weaponry. As with a compulsory choice Tac Squad I'd plump for the full sized squad here and keep the equipment pretty simple, bolters all 'round with a Heavy Bolter for support, the HB is cheap and it's shorter range is compensated for by the Infiltrate capability.
Squad Options
Sergeant - BP/CCW, again, just adds a litle extra pepper if the squad ends up in CC.
Squad - Zilch.
Battlefield Role
I'd use this squad to deny space to move to the enemy and threaten a flank. Placed out on a flank it can lay down a heavy curtain of fire and given you can start it fairly close o the enemy this squad can start to funnel an enemy into the rest of your firepower. Like the 'basic' Tac squad it can move without significant reduction in firepower and this mobility allows it to continue funneling your enemy to your strength even after deployment. Adding a teleport homer (with TH Sgt) can of course, allow the squad to bring in their more experienced brethren rapidly and accurately. Adding Sniper Rifles is always an option but will increase the importance of properly placing the squad during your initial deployment, it also restricts your mobility to a degree as movement results in loss of firepower.
My choice?
2 Tactical Squads. They're tough, have plenty of firepower and a degree of mobility. Why not choose the Scouts? Couple of reasons, first I prefer the Marine models, second as the basic building block of an army the Tac squad is a tougher and third the Tac squad has a little more anti armour firepower. For an RG army Scouts are nice and fluffy but my choice would be to choose them as optional Troops and to kit them out more fully.
My key objective when picking compulsory Troops choices is to get units that can fulfill a variety of roles against a variety of foes and that don't eat up too many points, with that in mind the Tactical Squad is king of the hill.
#3
Posted 28 February 2005 - 12:26 AM
bannus
-
- ++ MODERATI ++
-
- 11,989 posts
++PRAETOR BELLUM++
Before diving right into the Troop choices themselves, let's preface the choices first with what makes the Raven Guard unique?
Much of the current combat doctrine for the Raven Guard was shaped by its Primarch and the events of the Horus Heresy - and the Istvaan Massacre in particular.
Corax - the Raven Guard's Primarch - shaped the Legion's combat doctrine based upon his own experiences. Corax overthrew the the oppressive government of his world utizing the limited resources he had available. As the architect of the rebellion, Corax used one of the principle rules of warfare to ensure success: Economy of Force.
By concentrating his strength against his opponent's weaknesses, Corax achieved complete victory in a short period of time with a small, untrained and ill-equipped army. This experience would have a marked effect on the capabilities of the Legion that would later bear his name.
Prior to the Horus Heresy, the Raven Guard would establish a reputation for achieving quick and decisive victories against what would be considered impossible odds. By cripplng the enemy's ability to fight before the enemy is even able to respond, the Raven Guard would succeed where other more 'conventional' methods would fail.
There was still one final event that would have a significant impact on the Raven Guard's fighting prowess - the Istvaan Massacre.
Following these events, the Raven Guard would be called upon to serve the Emperor after the Legion was utterly decimated. They had to learn to do even more...with even less. This had a significant impact on both their combat doctrine and geneseed.
As a result, the Raven Guard follows the Codex in orgnization...but not in application. They place significant importance on Assault and Scout Squads, and commonly drop troops right in the middle of an engagement.
So why bring all this up?
I don't build all armies the same. For some, the only difference between their Blood Angels army and their Ultramarines army is just the color of their paint. Organizationally, they are nearly the same with only minor variations. If it works for one army, it will work for another.
While this is often true, I build my armies with the character of the army in mind. I will not build a Raven Guard army the same as I would build an Iron Hands army.
So let's first look at the character of the Raven Guard, which SCC has already pointed out.
The Raven Guard traits:
Advantages: Blessed be the Warrior; No Mercy, No Respite
Major Disadvantage: Flesh Over Steel
While I was initially suprised by this combination for the Raven Guard, it actually works quite well for them.
The Raven Guard depends on being able to quickly cripple its opponent's ability to wage war before they can generate any momentum. The 'No Mercy, No Respite' trait is an ideal way for them to do that in game-terms.
Fighting with limited resources has become more a habit pattern than a necessity in recent times for the Raven Guard. To represent this, the disadvantage 'Flesh Over Steel' has been imposed upon them. Some may argue that it would be fluffier to build a Raven Guard army without the traits because this would lift the limit on the number of drop-pods the army could utilize. Also keep in mind that a Raven Guard army is suppose to be an infantry army - they will necessarily be the backbone of the army.
No where in the fluff does it indicate that the Raven Guard regularly dropped 'en masse' on their opponent. On the contrary, the 3rd edition rules were set up specifically so that they would drop only a portion of their army using drop pods - for other Space Marine armies it was an all or nothing deal.
The new traits reinforce what I had initially suspected was the intended application of this army - dopping in a few select sqads at key times and in key locations to cripple the opponent's army.
'Blessed Be The Warrior' serves to round out the traits for the Raven Guard, giving them more flexability in the Fast Attack Department - something all Raven Guard players were lamanting in 3rd edition.
Having said all that, I would build my Raven Guard army the "Raven Guard Way".
What is the Raven Guard Way?
A Raven Guard army would be designed to quickly cripple an enemy army - no long term shoot-outs. It would have to be very flexable to deal with a variety of situations and be highly mobile to concentrate its firepower at critical times and places.
Economy of force would also be a consideration. Resources for transports are at a premium and need to be used wisely and not squandered.
Now let's look at Troops.
Tactical Squads and Scout Squads
As one of the least mobile elements of a Raven Guard army, Tactical Squads will fulfill a mostly supporting role. Because of this, we will want to limit the number of points we will be spending on these units. So we will want make the squads as small as possible without compomising their effectiveness. For most applications Tactical Squads will probably be either 6 or 8 man units. When you get closer to finishing your army list and you have a few points left over, then bulk them out some more. But to start with 6 or 8 man squads should do it. I like to equip squads as pairs with complimentary weaponry for best effect. For example:
I would give one squad a heavy bolter (for AP duty) and a melta-gun (for AT duty).
A second squad would then be equipped with say a lascannon (AT) and a flamer (AP).
These two squads would mutually support each other. If the primary threat for that turn would be tanks, then the squad with the lascannon would remain stationary and support the squad with the melta-gun as it moved forward.
Conversely, if the threat was a mob of Orcs, then the squad with heavy bolter would remain stationary to give supporting for for the squad moving up with the flamer.
This way both squads can remain effective while allowing at least one to move forward as necessary.
Of course there would be one or two squads equipped with drop-pods (it just wouldn't be a Raven Guard army without at least one of these). I would be willing to put more points into these units since they will be dropped into critical situations - a Veteran Sergeant with some appropriate wargear (like a power weapon or power fist) and possibly give these unit the furious charge trait advantage and frags - so they can inflict serious damage on the enemy shortly after their arrival (granted, it won't be immediate since they can't charge on the turn they arrive).
A Scout Squad is a must for a Raven Guard army, though I probably wouldn't take an more than one (for the reasons SCC has pointed out above). As an inexpensive unit that can infiltrate, they will be quite valuable in an army that has limited transports. Their armour is weaker, so I wouldn't kit them out so much that they become too tempting of a target on the first turn. A heavy bolter and/or maybe a sniper-rifle or two is all I would give them. To me, an all sniper unit just doesn't fit right and you would't want to infiltrate it too close to the enemy anyway. For me, the sniper-rifle is the 'special weapon' of the Scout Squad - so they really shouldn't need more than one or two anyway. As an infiltrating unit, they'll be getting into the thick of things, so the unit will need to be effective fighting on the move. Just like a heavy bolter in a Tactical Squad, sniper-rifles are so cheap you can afford to put one or two in there just in case. Besides that, frags and a mix of bolters and BP&CCW are about all I would give them. As I get closer to finalizing a list, I may want to upgrade the Sergeant and give him a powerweapon to booste their close combat ability. However, it isn't critical at this point of army building.
Well, that is about all I have to say at the moment on Raven Guard Troops.
Next.
Much of the current combat doctrine for the Raven Guard was shaped by its Primarch and the events of the Horus Heresy - and the Istvaan Massacre in particular.
Corax - the Raven Guard's Primarch - shaped the Legion's combat doctrine based upon his own experiences. Corax overthrew the the oppressive government of his world utizing the limited resources he had available. As the architect of the rebellion, Corax used one of the principle rules of warfare to ensure success: Economy of Force.
By concentrating his strength against his opponent's weaknesses, Corax achieved complete victory in a short period of time with a small, untrained and ill-equipped army. This experience would have a marked effect on the capabilities of the Legion that would later bear his name.
Prior to the Horus Heresy, the Raven Guard would establish a reputation for achieving quick and decisive victories against what would be considered impossible odds. By cripplng the enemy's ability to fight before the enemy is even able to respond, the Raven Guard would succeed where other more 'conventional' methods would fail.
There was still one final event that would have a significant impact on the Raven Guard's fighting prowess - the Istvaan Massacre.
Following these events, the Raven Guard would be called upon to serve the Emperor after the Legion was utterly decimated. They had to learn to do even more...with even less. This had a significant impact on both their combat doctrine and geneseed.
As a result, the Raven Guard follows the Codex in orgnization...but not in application. They place significant importance on Assault and Scout Squads, and commonly drop troops right in the middle of an engagement.
So why bring all this up?
I don't build all armies the same. For some, the only difference between their Blood Angels army and their Ultramarines army is just the color of their paint. Organizationally, they are nearly the same with only minor variations. If it works for one army, it will work for another.
While this is often true, I build my armies with the character of the army in mind. I will not build a Raven Guard army the same as I would build an Iron Hands army.
So let's first look at the character of the Raven Guard, which SCC has already pointed out.
The Raven Guard traits:
Advantages: Blessed be the Warrior; No Mercy, No Respite
Major Disadvantage: Flesh Over Steel
While I was initially suprised by this combination for the Raven Guard, it actually works quite well for them.
The Raven Guard depends on being able to quickly cripple its opponent's ability to wage war before they can generate any momentum. The 'No Mercy, No Respite' trait is an ideal way for them to do that in game-terms.
Fighting with limited resources has become more a habit pattern than a necessity in recent times for the Raven Guard. To represent this, the disadvantage 'Flesh Over Steel' has been imposed upon them. Some may argue that it would be fluffier to build a Raven Guard army without the traits because this would lift the limit on the number of drop-pods the army could utilize. Also keep in mind that a Raven Guard army is suppose to be an infantry army - they will necessarily be the backbone of the army.
No where in the fluff does it indicate that the Raven Guard regularly dropped 'en masse' on their opponent. On the contrary, the 3rd edition rules were set up specifically so that they would drop only a portion of their army using drop pods - for other Space Marine armies it was an all or nothing deal.
The new traits reinforce what I had initially suspected was the intended application of this army - dopping in a few select sqads at key times and in key locations to cripple the opponent's army.
'Blessed Be The Warrior' serves to round out the traits for the Raven Guard, giving them more flexability in the Fast Attack Department - something all Raven Guard players were lamanting in 3rd edition.
Having said all that, I would build my Raven Guard army the "Raven Guard Way".
What is the Raven Guard Way?
A Raven Guard army would be designed to quickly cripple an enemy army - no long term shoot-outs. It would have to be very flexable to deal with a variety of situations and be highly mobile to concentrate its firepower at critical times and places.
Economy of force would also be a consideration. Resources for transports are at a premium and need to be used wisely and not squandered.
Now let's look at Troops.
Tactical Squads and Scout Squads
As one of the least mobile elements of a Raven Guard army, Tactical Squads will fulfill a mostly supporting role. Because of this, we will want to limit the number of points we will be spending on these units. So we will want make the squads as small as possible without compomising their effectiveness. For most applications Tactical Squads will probably be either 6 or 8 man units. When you get closer to finishing your army list and you have a few points left over, then bulk them out some more. But to start with 6 or 8 man squads should do it. I like to equip squads as pairs with complimentary weaponry for best effect. For example:
I would give one squad a heavy bolter (for AP duty) and a melta-gun (for AT duty).
A second squad would then be equipped with say a lascannon (AT) and a flamer (AP).
These two squads would mutually support each other. If the primary threat for that turn would be tanks, then the squad with the lascannon would remain stationary and support the squad with the melta-gun as it moved forward.
Conversely, if the threat was a mob of Orcs, then the squad with heavy bolter would remain stationary to give supporting for for the squad moving up with the flamer.
This way both squads can remain effective while allowing at least one to move forward as necessary.
Of course there would be one or two squads equipped with drop-pods (it just wouldn't be a Raven Guard army without at least one of these). I would be willing to put more points into these units since they will be dropped into critical situations - a Veteran Sergeant with some appropriate wargear (like a power weapon or power fist) and possibly give these unit the furious charge trait advantage and frags - so they can inflict serious damage on the enemy shortly after their arrival (granted, it won't be immediate since they can't charge on the turn they arrive).
A Scout Squad is a must for a Raven Guard army, though I probably wouldn't take an more than one (for the reasons SCC has pointed out above). As an inexpensive unit that can infiltrate, they will be quite valuable in an army that has limited transports. Their armour is weaker, so I wouldn't kit them out so much that they become too tempting of a target on the first turn. A heavy bolter and/or maybe a sniper-rifle or two is all I would give them. To me, an all sniper unit just doesn't fit right and you would't want to infiltrate it too close to the enemy anyway. For me, the sniper-rifle is the 'special weapon' of the Scout Squad - so they really shouldn't need more than one or two anyway. As an infiltrating unit, they'll be getting into the thick of things, so the unit will need to be effective fighting on the move. Just like a heavy bolter in a Tactical Squad, sniper-rifles are so cheap you can afford to put one or two in there just in case. Besides that, frags and a mix of bolters and BP&CCW are about all I would give them. As I get closer to finalizing a list, I may want to upgrade the Sergeant and give him a powerweapon to booste their close combat ability. However, it isn't critical at this point of army building.
Well, that is about all I have to say at the moment on Raven Guard Troops.
Next.
Edited by bannus, 28 February 2005 - 12:33 AM.
IRON HANDS LEGION OF THE DAMNED
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
#4
Posted 28 February 2005 - 11:23 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Project: Raven Guard Banners!!!!!
Yes thats right you can now support Project: Raven Guard with ethier standrad GIF format or spruce it up a bit to grab attention with flash animation.
they will be up some time tomorrow
So get behind project raven guard and grab a banner soon.......
SO STAY TUNED AND WATCH THIS SPACE...........
LFC!
Yes thats right you can now support Project: Raven Guard with ethier standrad GIF format or spruce it up a bit to grab attention with flash animation.
they will be up some time tomorrow
So get behind project raven guard and grab a banner soon.......
SO STAY TUNED AND WATCH THIS SPACE...........
LFC!
Edited by long fang coop, 28 February 2005 - 11:24 AM.
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
#5
Posted 03 March 2005 - 07:04 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Comon Guy's 180 veiws !!!
and a crappy 2 replies
Get behind project Raven Guard. Write something please!!!!!
:
:
LFC!
and a crappy 2 replies
Get behind project Raven Guard. Write something please!!!!!
:: LFC!
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
#6
Posted 03 March 2005 - 07:47 AM
SCC
-
- +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
-
- 7,217 posts
++UNGUIS AENEI++
Hey I thought the replies were pretty good!and a crappy 2 replies
Bannus' reply in particular was extremely well thought out and written, though I must admit I find it odd no one else has anything to say on the topic of RG Troops choices...is it possible Bannus has finally found the perfect mix of man & machine and become one with the Codex, thus rendering others mute at his wisdom?
Seriously fellas, the Project isn't just about LFC or Bannus, it's for everyone, the more who participate the better it'll be as a resource for you & your RG players...
#7
Posted 04 March 2005 - 12:32 AM
R0adki11
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 184 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Analysis of Assault Troops
Right Assault Troops are probably one of the most important things in a RG army because of that you can take them as Elite choices if you need to fill up Fast attack choice for Drop Poding Units or just more assault squads.
Advantages of Assault Troops in RG armies are that because of the traits RG use, you can give your assault Troops furious assault which is quite a well valued when combined with a Veteran Sergeant with a power fist. Though as a player of raven guard i usually only give normal assault troops the skill if i hav the points spare.
Assault Squads should be fielded in atleast 6 i recommend as they benifit from an even number squad which is better for moral checks. Though as a RG player i tend to field my squads in 6, 8 or sometimes 10 models which is always good fun.
Grenades i would recommend adding Krak Grenades to your squads though it is personal preference but it is good for some Anti Tank power. Melta bombs are expensive to add to a whole squad, save your melta bombs for your Sergeant.
Flamers or Plasma Pistol ?
On this question im unsure about, flamers are great against horde armies but you don't want to kill to many otherwise you will not be able to assault which would be no good, it really depends what you are facing.
But as a RG player i usually field atleast one Plasma Pistol or Two as they make nice character and high armour save weapons.
Veteran Sergeants what close combat weapons.
Id recommend always a Power Fist and a bolt pistol this is one of the best combination if you are on a budget, but a good addtion to this combination is to give the Sergeant with a Combat shield which gives you that nice invunerable save.
Though if you want your Sergeant to be based on the Fluff of the RG i would give the Guy either one or a pair of lightning Claws which will mark out a great leader.
Right Assault Troops are probably one of the most important things in a RG army because of that you can take them as Elite choices if you need to fill up Fast attack choice for Drop Poding Units or just more assault squads.
Advantages of Assault Troops in RG armies are that because of the traits RG use, you can give your assault Troops furious assault which is quite a well valued when combined with a Veteran Sergeant with a power fist. Though as a player of raven guard i usually only give normal assault troops the skill if i hav the points spare.
Assault Squads should be fielded in atleast 6 i recommend as they benifit from an even number squad which is better for moral checks. Though as a RG player i tend to field my squads in 6, 8 or sometimes 10 models which is always good fun.
Grenades i would recommend adding Krak Grenades to your squads though it is personal preference but it is good for some Anti Tank power. Melta bombs are expensive to add to a whole squad, save your melta bombs for your Sergeant.
Flamers or Plasma Pistol ?
On this question im unsure about, flamers are great against horde armies but you don't want to kill to many otherwise you will not be able to assault which would be no good, it really depends what you are facing.
But as a RG player i usually field atleast one Plasma Pistol or Two as they make nice character and high armour save weapons.
Veteran Sergeants what close combat weapons.
Id recommend always a Power Fist and a bolt pistol this is one of the best combination if you are on a budget, but a good addtion to this combination is to give the Sergeant with a Combat shield which gives you that nice invunerable save.
Though if you want your Sergeant to be based on the Fluff of the RG i would give the Guy either one or a pair of lightning Claws which will mark out a great leader.
"Knowing where to land your blow, so that it achieves the greatest damage with the minimum force, is the key to victory in war."
Instructor Sergeant Alenpo, 4th Company Raven Guard
#8
Posted 04 March 2005 - 05:27 AM
bannus
-
- ++ MODERATI ++
-
- 11,989 posts
++PRAETOR BELLUM++
Ok. Here goes another 'crappy' reply
Assault Squads:
As one element of the Raven Guard's "Tactical Triad" (along with infiltrators and drop-pod transported squads), Assault Squads provide essential mobility for the Chapter.
In many respects, Assault Squads serve the same role in a Raven Guard army as Rhino-transported troops do for more conventionl Chapters. Using their superior mobility, Assault Squads can swiftly concentrate resources where they are needed most.
Raven Guard detachments are feared and respected for their ability to deliver a crippling strike to an enemy even before they can respond. Assault Squads are an ideal close-combat unit in fulfilling this doctrine.
Using the trait system, a Raven Guard army is very flexable when it comes to selecting and equipping Assault Squads. They may be chosen as elites or as fast attack. Furious Assault makes them especially effective against other Space Marine opponents (especially Chaos) and is optional for fast attack units and manditory for elites.
For this reason, I strongly recommend upgrading the Sergeant for any unit that is selected as an elite. Furious Assault gives the unit a big advantage in the turn they charge. Giving a Veteran Sergeant a power-weapon will further augment this advantage. Stay away from power-fists and thunder-hammers for these units. They have an I5 when they charge, don't squander it with weapons that must wait for the final initiative round to strike. Lightning claws can be especially effective (and fluffy - albeit an expensive option).
Other options to consider would be a pair of flamers. These can be effectve against nearly any enemy unit. For most armies, the size of a unit is inversely proportional to resilience of the individual troops. So a pair of flamers will wipe out large numbers of gaunts (in relatively large units) and still take out a couple of power-armoured troops in smaller squads. As assault weapons, they won't prevent the squad from engaging into hand-to-hand combat.
Plasma pistols are great support weapons. They can periodically inflict damage on their user, so I would reserve them for units chosen as fast attack without the furious charge option. A unit equipped with a pair of plasma pistols can take on heavier armoured units with considerable success as well as the more vulnerable side and rear armour of many tanks - this can be especially devistating when combined with deep strike.
For the ultimate in flexability, give your Assault Squads one plasma pistol and one flamer - this way you can engage any opponent!
I'm not a big fan of krack grenades. To me, they are strong enough to encourage bold attacks against enemy armour, and weak enough to yield disappointing results.
For just one point per model more, you can equip a squad with melta-bombs instead. Unlike krack grenades, these weapons are effective against even the thicker frontal armour of many vehicles. You can just give them to your Veteran Sergeants, but remember they only hit on a 4+ against a slow moving tank and 6+ against a faster one. By equipping your entire squad with them, you are ensured a much higher chance of success against a moving target. If points are an issue, then equip only a smaller squad or two with them. Not all Assault Squads need melta bombs.
Of course there is nothing wrong with not giving your Assault Squads any options at all! Even without options, they are still very effective units.
The size of these squads can vary quite a bit. Yes, I agree that even numbers are more advantageous when considering casualties. So 6 or 8 is my recommendation. Why not 10? Because the unit starts to get real expensive and is more difficult to employ. For some reason, 10-man squads can't find as much cover as the smaller units and can run into deployment trouble when deep striking. Most of time, I run 8-man squads and this has proven to be adequate for most situations.
In theory, a Raven Guard army could take up to six of these units. However, their high cost/model makes this highly impractical. Two or three are likely to be sufficient for most - if not all - missions.
This is all I have to share on Raven Guard Assault Squads at the moment.
Assault Squads:
As one element of the Raven Guard's "Tactical Triad" (along with infiltrators and drop-pod transported squads), Assault Squads provide essential mobility for the Chapter.
In many respects, Assault Squads serve the same role in a Raven Guard army as Rhino-transported troops do for more conventionl Chapters. Using their superior mobility, Assault Squads can swiftly concentrate resources where they are needed most.
Raven Guard detachments are feared and respected for their ability to deliver a crippling strike to an enemy even before they can respond. Assault Squads are an ideal close-combat unit in fulfilling this doctrine.
Using the trait system, a Raven Guard army is very flexable when it comes to selecting and equipping Assault Squads. They may be chosen as elites or as fast attack. Furious Assault makes them especially effective against other Space Marine opponents (especially Chaos) and is optional for fast attack units and manditory for elites.
For this reason, I strongly recommend upgrading the Sergeant for any unit that is selected as an elite. Furious Assault gives the unit a big advantage in the turn they charge. Giving a Veteran Sergeant a power-weapon will further augment this advantage. Stay away from power-fists and thunder-hammers for these units. They have an I5 when they charge, don't squander it with weapons that must wait for the final initiative round to strike. Lightning claws can be especially effective (and fluffy - albeit an expensive option).
Other options to consider would be a pair of flamers. These can be effectve against nearly any enemy unit. For most armies, the size of a unit is inversely proportional to resilience of the individual troops. So a pair of flamers will wipe out large numbers of gaunts (in relatively large units) and still take out a couple of power-armoured troops in smaller squads. As assault weapons, they won't prevent the squad from engaging into hand-to-hand combat.
Plasma pistols are great support weapons. They can periodically inflict damage on their user, so I would reserve them for units chosen as fast attack without the furious charge option. A unit equipped with a pair of plasma pistols can take on heavier armoured units with considerable success as well as the more vulnerable side and rear armour of many tanks - this can be especially devistating when combined with deep strike.
For the ultimate in flexability, give your Assault Squads one plasma pistol and one flamer - this way you can engage any opponent!
I'm not a big fan of krack grenades. To me, they are strong enough to encourage bold attacks against enemy armour, and weak enough to yield disappointing results.
For just one point per model more, you can equip a squad with melta-bombs instead. Unlike krack grenades, these weapons are effective against even the thicker frontal armour of many vehicles. You can just give them to your Veteran Sergeants, but remember they only hit on a 4+ against a slow moving tank and 6+ against a faster one. By equipping your entire squad with them, you are ensured a much higher chance of success against a moving target. If points are an issue, then equip only a smaller squad or two with them. Not all Assault Squads need melta bombs.
Of course there is nothing wrong with not giving your Assault Squads any options at all! Even without options, they are still very effective units.
The size of these squads can vary quite a bit. Yes, I agree that even numbers are more advantageous when considering casualties. So 6 or 8 is my recommendation. Why not 10? Because the unit starts to get real expensive and is more difficult to employ. For some reason, 10-man squads can't find as much cover as the smaller units and can run into deployment trouble when deep striking. Most of time, I run 8-man squads and this has proven to be adequate for most situations.
In theory, a Raven Guard army could take up to six of these units. However, their high cost/model makes this highly impractical. Two or three are likely to be sufficient for most - if not all - missions.
This is all I have to share on Raven Guard Assault Squads at the moment.
Edited by bannus, 04 March 2005 - 05:42 AM.
IRON HANDS LEGION OF THE DAMNED
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
#9
Posted 04 March 2005 - 06:10 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Thank you !!!!
Thank you! thank you! thank you!
SCC thanks fot the support!!
Bannus how do u come up with that stuff!!! its amazing!!!
Hour replies werent crappy i was just angry at the lack of participation (something that will hopefully go right away for ever)
R0adki11 : My hand goes out to you, as you are the only one to have replied bar SCC, Bannus and I.
Keep it rollin' fellas!!!
LFC!
Thank you! thank you! thank you!
SCC thanks fot the support!!
Bannus how do u come up with that stuff!!! its amazing!!!
Hour replies werent crappy i was just angry at the lack of participation (something that will hopefully go right away for ever)
R0adki11 : My hand goes out to you, as you are the only one to have replied bar SCC, Bannus and I.
Keep it rollin' fellas!!!
LFC!
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
#10
Posted 04 March 2005 - 06:55 PM
Mar Bloodaxe
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 588 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Hello here are my thoughts on the fast attack.
From playing experience I have found that taking land speeder tornados as an FA choice compliments the theme of the army of fast and mobile. I usualy take two squadrons of two or even 3 of two. As I am not using drop pods or transports at the moment so these can fill out the FA slots. This unit can handle anti-troop or vehicle with the assault cannons. Better suited for anti-troop I have found.
A strategy you could employ would be to deepstrike a pair of them in conjunction wih your assault squads normal movement to converge on the enemy. Whatever is left from te volley can easily be cleaned with the assault squad. These units are cheap enough to be able to decimate a unit or even destroy a tank, making their points back. These units however are very fragile and can be downed easily. That is why I suggest taking squads of two so when you lose a speeder, you won't be below 50% unit strength for scoring purposes.
Attack bikes can be used for anti-tank or troop. Having two wounds and a marine armour save, these guys can duck into cover unlike speeders to lauch counter offensives. I like the multimelta on the bikes if facing lots of armour. The speeders can handle the troops and the bikes the tanks. Having a 24 inch range augmented by the move, they can rapidly get into range of an enemy vehicle. Land raider got you down? Then have a sqaudron of multi-melta bikes light them up. These guys come in pairs so I'd stick to the two only for reasons I stated earlier. As you know these guys can go down easy to from enemy fire so being patient and choosing when you strike is crucial for them to be effective. Turbo boosting may not be a bad option depending on the situation but every game/opponent is different so use that accordingly.
From playing experience I have found that taking land speeder tornados as an FA choice compliments the theme of the army of fast and mobile. I usualy take two squadrons of two or even 3 of two. As I am not using drop pods or transports at the moment so these can fill out the FA slots. This unit can handle anti-troop or vehicle with the assault cannons. Better suited for anti-troop I have found.
A strategy you could employ would be to deepstrike a pair of them in conjunction wih your assault squads normal movement to converge on the enemy. Whatever is left from te volley can easily be cleaned with the assault squad. These units are cheap enough to be able to decimate a unit or even destroy a tank, making their points back. These units however are very fragile and can be downed easily. That is why I suggest taking squads of two so when you lose a speeder, you won't be below 50% unit strength for scoring purposes.
Attack bikes can be used for anti-tank or troop. Having two wounds and a marine armour save, these guys can duck into cover unlike speeders to lauch counter offensives. I like the multimelta on the bikes if facing lots of armour. The speeders can handle the troops and the bikes the tanks. Having a 24 inch range augmented by the move, they can rapidly get into range of an enemy vehicle. Land raider got you down? Then have a sqaudron of multi-melta bikes light them up. These guys come in pairs so I'd stick to the two only for reasons I stated earlier. As you know these guys can go down easy to from enemy fire so being patient and choosing when you strike is crucial for them to be effective. Turbo boosting may not be a bad option depending on the situation but every game/opponent is different so use that accordingly.
"If you can't post anything helpful, get the hell out." DepthCharge
Gaming forum for D.C., MD, & VA area gamers.
Gaming forum for D.C., MD, & VA area gamers.
#11
Posted 05 March 2005 - 11:46 AM
Samoth
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 78 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
I have played raven guard since the day the IA was released, and there is a huge difference between the 3rd and 4th edition rules. The majority of my experience is with the 3rd rules, but a lot of my more "mature" and tactical games, if they are fewer, are with the new codex. Basically, that means that I only really started looking in depth, and thinking about what my units would actually do when I took them, shortly before and after the release of the new codex. Before, it was units slapped together, simply because they could do damage to the enemy. I had no real concept of battle plans, but I did have experience - a strange combination. So, what I'm trying to say with all this bleedin' ramblin, is that my thinking isnt stuck in the past too much, and I'm not just some dum noob, as my post count would suggest. 
There, phew, just thought I'd get that little disclaimer off my chest.
Ok then, I'll start off with troops. As someone else said, raven guard should be an infantry and light armour army. Therefore, the troops section of the fox should compose a lot of your points, second (at most) only to fast attack, but not even that really.
Tactical squads. In my experience, they are far too expensive to be "truly" tactical. Give them a role, equip them for that role, provide for a very secondary battle plan, and you will see them perform well. I think that's all pretty self-explanatory really.
My favourite tactical squad is an 8-9 man (9, because you have to lose 3 models for a morale check, which isn’t so important any more), 1 w/ a plasma gun (or against really squishy enemies, just skip the special weapon) and a heavy weapon. The heavy weapon should depend on the rest of your army; I'll usually take a couple of missile launchers to a tournament scenario. Against an army with tough tanks like imperial guard, I'll take big squads with bolters and heavy bolters, and place them in cover to distract the majority of the army by giving them an obvious target, and then in the later stages of the game, leaping out of cover to slaughter the weakened enemy with mass bolter fire, or to claim close by objectives. I'll then take one or two small squads with anti-tank weapons to compliment the anti-personnel weapons of the larger squads.
On the other hand, against most opponents, two squads, 8 men strong with a plasma rifle and missile launcher form a nice firebase.
Another unit I like to use are the armour-sniper squads, small 5-man squads with lascannons, sometimes with the "suffer not the works of heretics" trait. I use this instead of no mercy, no respite, as to my mind, the raven guard are an all/mostly infantry army, and so have to rely on infantry for anti tank work, hence the traits. That's just a personal preference, but a 5-man veteran squad can do the same thing whilst conforming to official reg traits, or even plain codex rules.
The third squad was used more under the old rules, for two reasons. 1 - I don’t have a drop pod model (
) and 2 - deep striking was more effective under the old rules, as you would often have +1 to your reserves and were able to re-roll the scatter dice.
However, under the new rules, the limit on drop pods means you will often take two at most, and so this is not as important. It would seem that a squad, 9-10 strong, deep struck to compliment your assault/scout squads, or as late game reserves to take objectives is the best bet. For this purpose, take a special weapon to suit your enemy, a veteran sergeant with a power fist and plasma pistol or other weapon, as well as a heavy weapon. This is the one truly "effective" tactical squad. They will come into the game, and will have to be deployed wherever they will hurt the enemy most, so have to be able to hurt a variety of enemies. To this end, the squad is well tooled, able to fire at range, engage in short range fire fights, and has an invisible power fist for melee.
Also, in some scenarios, it may be worthwhile to add a rhino or two, to either the first or third type of squads. Rhino's are more customisable than a drop pod, as you choose when to move them and such. On the other hand, they can be incapacitated by large amounts of enemy heavy weapon fire. On a whole, I find other elements of the army to be manoeuvrable enough to leave the tacticals in a support role, though if your army has fewer drop pods, infiltrators, or assault marines, rhino's can fill the whole, to an extent. If you play on boards with little cover however, they are next to useless.
Well, anyway, that's the way I use my tacticals, on a whole. Sometimes peculiar lists will need peculiar squad loadouts, but none of any import come to mind now.
Anyway, that's the way I use my tacticals. They definetly fulfill a supporting role, picking up the rest of the armies' slack. Definetly not the regular codex way, but hey, rg are one of the least codex chapters I can think of, barring chapters like space wolves. I'll do a post on scouts, which I use extensively, and they can be categorized two ways, tactical, and assault. Basically, the assault scouts fulfill a lesser "assaul marine" role, who generally disctract more than destroy. The tacticals have the same role as tactical marines, they support the rest of the army, in their own way.
There, phew, just thought I'd get that little disclaimer off my chest.
Ok then, I'll start off with troops. As someone else said, raven guard should be an infantry and light armour army. Therefore, the troops section of the fox should compose a lot of your points, second (at most) only to fast attack, but not even that really.
Tactical squads. In my experience, they are far too expensive to be "truly" tactical. Give them a role, equip them for that role, provide for a very secondary battle plan, and you will see them perform well. I think that's all pretty self-explanatory really.
My favourite tactical squad is an 8-9 man (9, because you have to lose 3 models for a morale check, which isn’t so important any more), 1 w/ a plasma gun (or against really squishy enemies, just skip the special weapon) and a heavy weapon. The heavy weapon should depend on the rest of your army; I'll usually take a couple of missile launchers to a tournament scenario. Against an army with tough tanks like imperial guard, I'll take big squads with bolters and heavy bolters, and place them in cover to distract the majority of the army by giving them an obvious target, and then in the later stages of the game, leaping out of cover to slaughter the weakened enemy with mass bolter fire, or to claim close by objectives. I'll then take one or two small squads with anti-tank weapons to compliment the anti-personnel weapons of the larger squads.
On the other hand, against most opponents, two squads, 8 men strong with a plasma rifle and missile launcher form a nice firebase.
Another unit I like to use are the armour-sniper squads, small 5-man squads with lascannons, sometimes with the "suffer not the works of heretics" trait. I use this instead of no mercy, no respite, as to my mind, the raven guard are an all/mostly infantry army, and so have to rely on infantry for anti tank work, hence the traits. That's just a personal preference, but a 5-man veteran squad can do the same thing whilst conforming to official reg traits, or even plain codex rules.
The third squad was used more under the old rules, for two reasons. 1 - I don’t have a drop pod model (
) and 2 - deep striking was more effective under the old rules, as you would often have +1 to your reserves and were able to re-roll the scatter dice.However, under the new rules, the limit on drop pods means you will often take two at most, and so this is not as important. It would seem that a squad, 9-10 strong, deep struck to compliment your assault/scout squads, or as late game reserves to take objectives is the best bet. For this purpose, take a special weapon to suit your enemy, a veteran sergeant with a power fist and plasma pistol or other weapon, as well as a heavy weapon. This is the one truly "effective" tactical squad. They will come into the game, and will have to be deployed wherever they will hurt the enemy most, so have to be able to hurt a variety of enemies. To this end, the squad is well tooled, able to fire at range, engage in short range fire fights, and has an invisible power fist for melee.
Also, in some scenarios, it may be worthwhile to add a rhino or two, to either the first or third type of squads. Rhino's are more customisable than a drop pod, as you choose when to move them and such. On the other hand, they can be incapacitated by large amounts of enemy heavy weapon fire. On a whole, I find other elements of the army to be manoeuvrable enough to leave the tacticals in a support role, though if your army has fewer drop pods, infiltrators, or assault marines, rhino's can fill the whole, to an extent. If you play on boards with little cover however, they are next to useless.
Well, anyway, that's the way I use my tacticals, on a whole. Sometimes peculiar lists will need peculiar squad loadouts, but none of any import come to mind now.
Anyway, that's the way I use my tacticals. They definetly fulfill a supporting role, picking up the rest of the armies' slack. Definetly not the regular codex way, but hey, rg are one of the least codex chapters I can think of, barring chapters like space wolves. I'll do a post on scouts, which I use extensively, and they can be categorized two ways, tactical, and assault. Basically, the assault scouts fulfill a lesser "assaul marine" role, who generally disctract more than destroy. The tacticals have the same role as tactical marines, they support the rest of the army, in their own way.
Edited by Samoth, 05 March 2005 - 01:08 PM.
#12
Posted 05 March 2005 - 12:58 PM
Samoth
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 78 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
So then, scouts. Scouts are cheap. They cost two points less than a marine. They have access to sniper rifles and shotguns. They can infiltrate. All for two points less than a marine. The catch? A 4+ armour save. Personally, that's a damn good trade, as far as I'm concerned. If you're scouts don’t take as much fire as your marines, then there armour save matters less, and that's how to get the best use out of scouts. You're already halfway there; the fact that they are scouts will generally make them a lower priority target for the enemy.
So, "tactical" scouts. Usually, I'll take a large squad, 8-10, give them all bolters, and one heavy bolter or a missile launcher, again, depending on the rest of the army, and the most likely enemy. After the enemy is deployed, it's easy to find a good spot for them. Generally, infiltrated with loss to a few secluded units, or in a prime position to take out units that will threaten more valuable units, or units that your other more powerful units shouldn't be wasted on. I'll generally take at least one of these, possibly two if I only have one "firebase" tactical squad. Most people will frown on scouts with bolters, seeing them as weaker tactical marines. They are in fact anything but. They will win most fire fights, because offensively they are just as good as a regular tactical marine, except they will be deployed with excellent los and fire lanes, and in prime real estate for the best cover. Bolter fire from turn one really hurt’s.
The second tactical squad is the sniper squad. Snipers are good for a few things. Firstly, pinning the enemy. You can toss one or two into a bolter scout squad, and hope that you force the odd pinning check, or take a dedicated squad, and that's what I usually do. I find a 50/50 mix to be bad, as you generally combine the worst traits of both types of scouts. They are expensive, and yet deployed within range of small arms - making them an accessible, juicy target. Not good.
Instead, I like to take a squad of around 5-7, with a heavy weapon (again, depending on enemy and comp. etc.), with the rest being snipers. These guys will generally be reliable for a kill or two, on ANY enemy, and that's where the beauty lies. For example, against necrons. Shoot the warriors with bolters. Then, shoot the immortals and destroyers etc. with the snipers, as unlike the bolters, they will always wound on a 4+. This way, high toughness, high point enemy squads become good targets for the squad. Conversely, don’t target things like guardsmen, as they are much easier to kill with bolters, both because they are denied an armour save, and they are wounded on a 3+. On the other hand, it's usually these units that have low moral, so that's where the one or two snipers in a bolter squad become useful. Against tough enemies, like necrons, I generally prefer casualties than the slim chance of a failed pinning test.
Also, don’t bother falling into the optimism of targeting high toughness, one model monstrous creatures and units. Though you will get a number of wounds, these units usually have at worst a 3+ armour save, and usually a 2+. This is a bad use of scouts, as the majority of your fire will be wasted. When fighting these units, you’re generally trying to beat the unit’s armour save, not it’s toughness. This also goes for terminators. Instead, for these sorts of units with high toughness and good saves (or terminators) hit them with sustained lascannon, plasma and melta fire, and if that doesn’t kill them, assault with a hidden power fist, to finish off. For the loss of 2-4 marines, you will cap a 100+point mc.
Another plus of this sort of sniper squad is it’s elusiveness. Deployed where you want, in good cover and a favourable position, and at 30 or so inches away from the enemy, they are immune to small arms fire. The enemy is generally loath to waste heavy weapons on them, with the exception of heavy bolters and their ilk. Obviously, try not to deploy within los of lots of heavy bolters. Generally I'll only ever take one squad, though I have seen people use two squads of five with 4 sniper rifles and a heavy weapon does wonders in distracting the enemy and generally being pests.
The last types of scouts are the assault scouts, basically "lesser" assault marines. Again, cheap, but they infiltrate and still do great damage. Take a squad of ten, with a veteran with a power-something (usually a fist), infiltrate into a position with a secluded approach, and cause the enemy to sweat. These guys really put the fear of the devil into less manoeuvrable armies like guard and static tau (watch the hammerhead), and the addition of a power fist gives marine players pause for thought. And here's the less obvious bit, take shotguns. Perhaps half half. Against armies of marines and such, firing a shotgun and then assaulting is more effective than firing a bolt pistol and assaulting. Against armies with a 5+ save or less, bolt pistols do better. I can’t remember which weapons allow you to shoot and charge with the charge bonus - if it's assault, then shotguns become even better. If not, it's still worth it, as you'll usually pop out of cover and take some shots, only to have the squad you shot assault you (stupid move, you're in cover) or fire back, at which point you take the shorties as casualties and assault to full effect next turn with the pistols. So I like to take a roughly 4-6/2-8 mix.
Anyway, that's the way I use my scouts. Initially, I just used them to get that initial +1 to reserves, but over times scouts have proved themselves to be valuable troops to have on the ground.
So, "tactical" scouts. Usually, I'll take a large squad, 8-10, give them all bolters, and one heavy bolter or a missile launcher, again, depending on the rest of the army, and the most likely enemy. After the enemy is deployed, it's easy to find a good spot for them. Generally, infiltrated with loss to a few secluded units, or in a prime position to take out units that will threaten more valuable units, or units that your other more powerful units shouldn't be wasted on. I'll generally take at least one of these, possibly two if I only have one "firebase" tactical squad. Most people will frown on scouts with bolters, seeing them as weaker tactical marines. They are in fact anything but. They will win most fire fights, because offensively they are just as good as a regular tactical marine, except they will be deployed with excellent los and fire lanes, and in prime real estate for the best cover. Bolter fire from turn one really hurt’s.
The second tactical squad is the sniper squad. Snipers are good for a few things. Firstly, pinning the enemy. You can toss one or two into a bolter scout squad, and hope that you force the odd pinning check, or take a dedicated squad, and that's what I usually do. I find a 50/50 mix to be bad, as you generally combine the worst traits of both types of scouts. They are expensive, and yet deployed within range of small arms - making them an accessible, juicy target. Not good.
Instead, I like to take a squad of around 5-7, with a heavy weapon (again, depending on enemy and comp. etc.), with the rest being snipers. These guys will generally be reliable for a kill or two, on ANY enemy, and that's where the beauty lies. For example, against necrons. Shoot the warriors with bolters. Then, shoot the immortals and destroyers etc. with the snipers, as unlike the bolters, they will always wound on a 4+. This way, high toughness, high point enemy squads become good targets for the squad. Conversely, don’t target things like guardsmen, as they are much easier to kill with bolters, both because they are denied an armour save, and they are wounded on a 3+. On the other hand, it's usually these units that have low moral, so that's where the one or two snipers in a bolter squad become useful. Against tough enemies, like necrons, I generally prefer casualties than the slim chance of a failed pinning test.
Also, don’t bother falling into the optimism of targeting high toughness, one model monstrous creatures and units. Though you will get a number of wounds, these units usually have at worst a 3+ armour save, and usually a 2+. This is a bad use of scouts, as the majority of your fire will be wasted. When fighting these units, you’re generally trying to beat the unit’s armour save, not it’s toughness. This also goes for terminators. Instead, for these sorts of units with high toughness and good saves (or terminators) hit them with sustained lascannon, plasma and melta fire, and if that doesn’t kill them, assault with a hidden power fist, to finish off. For the loss of 2-4 marines, you will cap a 100+point mc.
Another plus of this sort of sniper squad is it’s elusiveness. Deployed where you want, in good cover and a favourable position, and at 30 or so inches away from the enemy, they are immune to small arms fire. The enemy is generally loath to waste heavy weapons on them, with the exception of heavy bolters and their ilk. Obviously, try not to deploy within los of lots of heavy bolters. Generally I'll only ever take one squad, though I have seen people use two squads of five with 4 sniper rifles and a heavy weapon does wonders in distracting the enemy and generally being pests.
The last types of scouts are the assault scouts, basically "lesser" assault marines. Again, cheap, but they infiltrate and still do great damage. Take a squad of ten, with a veteran with a power-something (usually a fist), infiltrate into a position with a secluded approach, and cause the enemy to sweat. These guys really put the fear of the devil into less manoeuvrable armies like guard and static tau (watch the hammerhead), and the addition of a power fist gives marine players pause for thought. And here's the less obvious bit, take shotguns. Perhaps half half. Against armies of marines and such, firing a shotgun and then assaulting is more effective than firing a bolt pistol and assaulting. Against armies with a 5+ save or less, bolt pistols do better. I can’t remember which weapons allow you to shoot and charge with the charge bonus - if it's assault, then shotguns become even better. If not, it's still worth it, as you'll usually pop out of cover and take some shots, only to have the squad you shot assault you (stupid move, you're in cover) or fire back, at which point you take the shorties as casualties and assault to full effect next turn with the pistols. So I like to take a roughly 4-6/2-8 mix.
Anyway, that's the way I use my scouts. Initially, I just used them to get that initial +1 to reserves, but over times scouts have proved themselves to be valuable troops to have on the ground.
#13
Posted 06 March 2005 - 07:05 AM
bannus
-
- ++ MODERATI ++
-
- 11,989 posts
++PRAETOR BELLUM++
I suppose I had better finish up my evaluatation on the rest of the Fast Attack choices:
Because of the "Flesh Over Steel" disadvantage, a Raven Guard army will likely have few FA elements outside of Assault Squads.
Drop-pods are an obvoius choice for one or two of the army's FA slots. These transports can be ideal as inexpensive transports for squads that need to be deployed at a moments notice. The only option available to them is the addition of a Deathwind Launcher. The cost for this upgrade is a bit steep for a weapon with a BS2 and may only hit once during what remains of the game. If you have the points to spare, take this option. If not, I wouldn't sweat it.
Just about every Space Marine player is familiar with the Rhino and Razorback transports. A bit more expensive than a drop-pod, but models are already available for these as opposed to the drop-pod (Forge World being the only off-the-shelf option at the moment), which will appeal to those players who don't like to scratch-build. The new rules have had a marked effect on the traditional 'Rhino Rush', but it still remains effective.
The other most obvious choice for a Raven Guard army is the Landspeeder.
The Landspeeder is the only other choice outside of the Assault Squads and Drop-pods that may deep strike. This combined with its exceptional agility make it a valuable asset for any army.
Under the new rules, the Landspeeder has gained and lost.
While it is now available to take Tornados and Typhoons in squadrons, the weapons choice have become more limited. You can no longer take a Tornado equipped with a heavy bolter and heavy flamer or a Tornado armed with a multi-melta and assault cannon.
All this aside, it still remains a potent element on the tabletop. For the Raven Guard they can provide a variety of support roles. How they are equipped depends heavily on the rest of the army.
While the Tornado and Typhoon models offer more now that they may be taken as Squadrons, the humble basic model with either a heavy bolter or multi-melta still remains a potent weapon.
For most situations, I think that the Typhoon model best meets the need for the Raven Guard. Combining high speed, long range and the accuracy of a twin-linked weapon, this version of the Land Speeder can function much like a mini Whirlwind. Arm it with a multi-melta and it becomes even more universal - tke out soft targets at range with its missiles then close in and take out a tank in a pinch.
This leaves the various bike squadrons. While they can be as effective as many of the other FA choices, they are more limited in situations where deep strike is more effective. I haven't had much experience with these (I have several bikes. I just haven't had a chance to put them together yet), but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't 'fit' in a Raven Guard army.
Scout bikes in particular, seem to fit in well with the Raven Guard doctrine. These units are relatively cheap, but are mre vulnerable as well. Not many players have had anything kind to say about them, but I think they could still play a valuable role in a Raven Guard army with a little experimentation.
Because of the "Flesh Over Steel" disadvantage, a Raven Guard army will likely have few FA elements outside of Assault Squads.
Drop-pods are an obvoius choice for one or two of the army's FA slots. These transports can be ideal as inexpensive transports for squads that need to be deployed at a moments notice. The only option available to them is the addition of a Deathwind Launcher. The cost for this upgrade is a bit steep for a weapon with a BS2 and may only hit once during what remains of the game. If you have the points to spare, take this option. If not, I wouldn't sweat it.
Just about every Space Marine player is familiar with the Rhino and Razorback transports. A bit more expensive than a drop-pod, but models are already available for these as opposed to the drop-pod (Forge World being the only off-the-shelf option at the moment), which will appeal to those players who don't like to scratch-build. The new rules have had a marked effect on the traditional 'Rhino Rush', but it still remains effective.
The other most obvious choice for a Raven Guard army is the Landspeeder.
The Landspeeder is the only other choice outside of the Assault Squads and Drop-pods that may deep strike. This combined with its exceptional agility make it a valuable asset for any army.
Under the new rules, the Landspeeder has gained and lost.
While it is now available to take Tornados and Typhoons in squadrons, the weapons choice have become more limited. You can no longer take a Tornado equipped with a heavy bolter and heavy flamer or a Tornado armed with a multi-melta and assault cannon.
All this aside, it still remains a potent element on the tabletop. For the Raven Guard they can provide a variety of support roles. How they are equipped depends heavily on the rest of the army.
While the Tornado and Typhoon models offer more now that they may be taken as Squadrons, the humble basic model with either a heavy bolter or multi-melta still remains a potent weapon.
For most situations, I think that the Typhoon model best meets the need for the Raven Guard. Combining high speed, long range and the accuracy of a twin-linked weapon, this version of the Land Speeder can function much like a mini Whirlwind. Arm it with a multi-melta and it becomes even more universal - tke out soft targets at range with its missiles then close in and take out a tank in a pinch.
This leaves the various bike squadrons. While they can be as effective as many of the other FA choices, they are more limited in situations where deep strike is more effective. I haven't had much experience with these (I have several bikes. I just haven't had a chance to put them together yet), but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't 'fit' in a Raven Guard army.
Scout bikes in particular, seem to fit in well with the Raven Guard doctrine. These units are relatively cheap, but are mre vulnerable as well. Not many players have had anything kind to say about them, but I think they could still play a valuable role in a Raven Guard army with a little experimentation.
Edited by bannus, 06 March 2005 - 07:22 AM.
IRON HANDS LEGION OF THE DAMNED
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
#14
Posted 06 March 2005 - 08:59 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
There some good stuff there. Not crappy, but really good .
Right do we have any modelling, army list advice, painting totorials for any of the above unit types??
Keep it up fellas!!!
LFC!!
.Right do we have any modelling, army list advice, painting totorials for any of the above unit types??
Keep it up fellas!!!
LFC!!
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
#15
Posted 06 March 2005 - 10:20 AM
Samoth
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 78 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
With my plastic marines, I like to mix and match between the tacticals and assault marines, and use a knife to modeify the angles of arms and such. You can get a wide variety of poses this way. I like modelling a whole lot more than painting though, so I'll leave that to someone else.
I'm also currently experimenting with using cadian arms and lasguns (with some conversion) as new sniper rifle models, and bolters too. First off is a basic arm swap on a regular cc scout, to see if it'll work.
I'm also currently experimenting with using cadian arms and lasguns (with some conversion) as new sniper rifle models, and bolters too. First off is a basic arm swap on a regular cc scout, to see if it'll work.
#16
Posted 06 March 2005 - 02:42 PM
Mar Bloodaxe
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 588 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
For my tactical squads I have been using the assult marines lower bodies. Giving them a more dynamic pose.
"If you can't post anything helpful, get the hell out." DepthCharge
Gaming forum for D.C., MD, & VA area gamers.
Gaming forum for D.C., MD, & VA area gamers.
#17
Posted 06 March 2005 - 11:12 PM
Ethereal
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 10 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
How to paint Raven Guards? - A quite simpel but good looking way
1. Chaos black undercoat.
2. Drybrush metal parts in boltgun metal followed by chainmail. Tidy up the chaos black after this stage with a watered down chaos black.
3. Paint the chest eagle shadow grey. Highlight with skull white.
4. Paint the the models right "shoulder pad line" and the eyes in red gore followed by blood red. Then highlight with a mix of blood red and blazing orange. On the extreme edges use blazing orange on its own.
5. Highlight the armour with a 60/40 mix of chaos black/codex grey. Then highlight with codex grey on its own on the very edges.
6. After sand has been glued on, paint the whole base in graveyard earth and then drybrush the sand with bleached bone. I looks best IMO
Dont forget to spray the models with some kind of varnish to protect them when they are finished. NOT gloss varnish!
I hope that i can show you some pics from my models soon (I just have to buy/steal/borrow a cam)
Good luck & Have fun!
1. Chaos black undercoat.
2. Drybrush metal parts in boltgun metal followed by chainmail. Tidy up the chaos black after this stage with a watered down chaos black.
3. Paint the chest eagle shadow grey. Highlight with skull white.
4. Paint the the models right "shoulder pad line" and the eyes in red gore followed by blood red. Then highlight with a mix of blood red and blazing orange. On the extreme edges use blazing orange on its own.
5. Highlight the armour with a 60/40 mix of chaos black/codex grey. Then highlight with codex grey on its own on the very edges.
6. After sand has been glued on, paint the whole base in graveyard earth and then drybrush the sand with bleached bone. I looks best IMO
Dont forget to spray the models with some kind of varnish to protect them when they are finished. NOT gloss varnish!
I hope that i can show you some pics from my models soon (I just have to buy/steal/borrow a cam)
Good luck & Have fun!
"From the Darkness we strike; fast and lethal, and by the time our foes can react... darkness there and nothing more."
#18
Posted 07 March 2005 - 06:56 PM
darnik
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 8 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Awesome thread this is!
I'm relatively new to the hobby and didn't know much about RG until that Shrike article in WD recently. After reading I really wanted to go and paint a chapter like that, all stealthy and dangerous. The posts above are a great help and getting my bearings and hopefully starting out right. Since I'm new I can't contribute myself but know that I will closely follow this project to learn from it.
Thanks for the painting tips (not just the one quoted ), much appreciated. One question though:
Would the red shoulder pad lining make them 3rd company? I believe I read that somewhere?
Any tips for painting that raven logo by any chance? It seems like the hardest part of it.
And please do borrow a cam, can't wait to see what that painting scheme actually looks like for real.
I'm relatively new to the hobby and didn't know much about RG until that Shrike article in WD recently. After reading I really wanted to go and paint a chapter like that, all stealthy and dangerous. The posts above are a great help and getting my bearings and hopefully starting out right. Since I'm new I can't contribute myself but know that I will closely follow this project to learn from it.
4. Paint the the models right "shoulder pad line" and the eyes in red gore followed by blood red. Then highlight with a mix of blood red and blazing orange. On the extreme edges use blazing orange on its own.
Thanks for the painting tips (not just the one quoted
), much appreciated. One question though:Would the red shoulder pad lining make them 3rd company? I believe I read that somewhere?
Any tips for painting that raven logo by any chance? It seems like the hardest part of it.
And please do borrow a cam, can't wait to see what that painting scheme actually looks like for real.
Edited by darnik, 07 March 2005 - 06:58 PM.
#19
Posted 08 March 2005 - 09:00 AM
Red_Rook
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 28 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Actually I think painting the shoulder lining red just signifies that theyre an assault squad. According to the WD article Red is for assault squads, Green for tactical squads, Yellow for Devastator Squads and just black for Vets.
#20
Posted 08 March 2005 - 03:47 PM
thorntk421
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 10 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
I'd say they changed it since the IA article. The pic at the back of the new codex has the tac squads in red also.
Here's how i'm painting my RG 3rd company. All black armor, white chest eagle with red pad lining on just the right pad.
Sgt's get white helmets, Vet Sgt's get white helmets and white arms/shoulder pads, Vets just white arms/pads.
Now my question. Where can I get the Raven Guard decals???
I checked the Griffon Games web site and they no longer have the one that looks like the RG symbol "Iron Raven" i think it was called. The one they have have now "Raven 1 &2" i just don't like at all.
I tried hand painting it on but, it looked very bad.
Here's how i'm painting my RG 3rd company. All black armor, white chest eagle with red pad lining on just the right pad.
Sgt's get white helmets, Vet Sgt's get white helmets and white arms/shoulder pads, Vets just white arms/pads.
Now my question. Where can I get the Raven Guard decals???
I checked the Griffon Games web site and they no longer have the one that looks like the RG symbol "Iron Raven" i think it was called. The one they have have now "Raven 1 &2" i just don't like at all.
I tried hand painting it on but, it looked very bad.
#21
Posted 08 March 2005 - 11:39 PM
R0adki11
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 184 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
you could use warhammer decals i guess there are several good transfer you could use.
for my own army i havent used transfers yet as im indending my army be based round an hard core veteran force on SAS sorta of ideas. though RG guard details would be gud to hav 2.
My own RG force is painted entirely black, with imperial eagles in white.
Sergeants helemets white, Veteran Sergeants Helments White with white shoulder pads.
And for assault squads been counted as Elites i intend to hav them mayb all with white shoulder pads and helmets possibly.
No company marking will be added yet, but if i do i will give them green markings to show that they are 4th Company.
Tactical squads all will hav a designated trainer apothercary and techmarine and heavy weapons expert, this is building on the special forces theme.
Most Tactical Squads will be 6 man or 8 man squads, bolters fitted with Silencers and Suppressors i may even extend it to Heavy Bolters
Dreadnoughts, i only have one which is going to be turned into a Venerable Dreadnought with the aid of my bits box.
for my own army i havent used transfers yet as im indending my army be based round an hard core veteran force on SAS sorta of ideas. though RG guard details would be gud to hav 2.
My own RG force is painted entirely black, with imperial eagles in white.
Sergeants helemets white, Veteran Sergeants Helments White with white shoulder pads.
And for assault squads been counted as Elites i intend to hav them mayb all with white shoulder pads and helmets possibly.
No company marking will be added yet, but if i do i will give them green markings to show that they are 4th Company.
Tactical squads all will hav a designated trainer apothercary and techmarine and heavy weapons expert, this is building on the special forces theme.
Most Tactical Squads will be 6 man or 8 man squads, bolters fitted with Silencers and Suppressors i may even extend it to Heavy Bolters
Dreadnoughts, i only have one which is going to be turned into a Venerable Dreadnought with the aid of my bits box.
"Knowing where to land your blow, so that it achieves the greatest damage with the minimum force, is the key to victory in war."
Instructor Sergeant Alenpo, 4th Company Raven Guard
#22
Posted 09 March 2005 - 11:11 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Here is one of the banners:
If you are going to use it please do not direct link it form my photo bucket account. Thanks.
Feel free to use it in your sig's right here, the trusty B&C!!!!
If you are going to use it please do not direct link it form my photo bucket account. Thanks.
Feel free to use it in your sig's right here, the trusty B&C!!!!
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
#23
Posted 11 March 2005 - 10:53 PM
FabulousRex
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 1,368 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Perhaps one of the most overlooked elements of a RG is it's Heavy Support. All armies need some heavy-hitting firepower, and the RG are no exception. Of course, the big problem you run into is the limited selection, with some of the best HS choices unavailable. This tends to lead to a surplus of HS choices in a typical RG army (if only RG could swap HS->FA, ala Night Lords).
So considering your limited choices, and extremely expensive squads in other parts of the army, you've got to focus on small, cheap, and focused units. Here's my take on the best of them:
6 Man Devestator Squad w/ 3 Heavy Bolters-
This is an extremely cheap way to throw in some good anti-troop firepower into the RG army. At only 135pts, most any army can afford some good covering fire. With a small squad size and 'worthless' weapon choice, many a Marine army (especially Chaos) tends to ignore such a squad, only to suffer 4-5 turns of sustained HB fire.
Overview: Cheap, Effective, Often Overlooked
8 Man Dev Squad w/ 4 Missle Launchers-
A bit more expensive at 200pts, but a great base for your firepower to rely upon. Tried and true in many marine armies, expect alot more fire to be aimed towards such a squad. A variation for low-points games is a 6man squad with 3 MLs, which functions as a more visible version of the above squad.
Overview: Moderately Priced, Very Effective, Easily Targetted
Whirlwind-
Perhaps the most fluffy tank to include in a RG force, calling down indirect bombardment fits the style very well. And with such a cheap price, most any force can afford one. Best used against high-firepower/cheap troop armies like IG and Tau, with CC horde armies coming in a close second. Against Marine armies, it won't be as effective, but you can still do some decent damage with a sustained barrage against a static foe (possibly pinning them), and destroying any Scouts the enemy may have.
Overview: Very Cheap, Situationally Effective, Situationally Targetted
Vindicator-
Some may consider the Vindi to be the most UN-fluffy tank for the RG, but I disagree. Every force must siege a foe from time to time, and the Vindi works wonders against hard to kill, dug-in foes like Necrons, IWs ,or any shooty Marine army. 2 uses for it generally. If assaulting a foe, use it like a big stick to protect your other units. Packing the most powerful weapon in the game sure makes people irrationally scared of such a tank. Against assaulty armies, deploy it to one side, out of direct LOS, but covering one approach to your lines. This tends to funnel the assault into one direction, easy to predict, and easy to counter-assault and kill.
Overview: Moderately Expensive, Extremely Effective, Highly Targetted
Predator Destructor-
Again, perhaps a bit unfluffy, but also a good source for some firepower. With a standard Autocannon, it makes a great transport killer if facing DE, Orks, or Eldar. With HB sponsons it is optimized to deal with high number armies. However, I feel the Devestators, Whirlwind, or Vindi to be better at thinning numbers down. Therefore, no sponsons or LC sponsons are your best bet. This makes it an optimized anti-medium-armor tank. Perhaps useful for you, perhaps not. With a good range however, you can afford one in larger games to deal with enemy transports/speeders.
Overview: Fairly Expensive, Somewhat Effective, Situationally Targetted
Land Raider-
The big mama herself, an iconic SM tank suitable for large engagements. Just stick to 2000pt+ games for this behemoth. With so many other expensive choices RG typically use, this is a bit too much to squeeze into any but the highest points games. When you do field it however, I find it best to hold a JP-less Assault Squad. You're taking a couple anyhow, so why not put it in a transport they can Furious Charge out of? I find a slow 6" advance firing Lascannons/HBs to work best in larger games, providing firepower and mobile cover for your other speedy elements. If used to 'sprint', charge a flank with it, so you can hit side armor and target vunerable squads easier with your weaponry.
Overview: Extremely Expensive, Very Effective, Highly Targetted (but tough)
I hope that more RG players take advantage of the HS choices they have available, small Devestator squads fit the fluff nicely, and don't break the points bank. But the Vindicator in particular I think also fits nicely (albiet in a 'sieging' army), and can be devestatingly effective if used with other high-powered units to concentrate force. Highly Recommended if fielding Shrike's Wing, if only to provide another target to shoot at.
So considering your limited choices, and extremely expensive squads in other parts of the army, you've got to focus on small, cheap, and focused units. Here's my take on the best of them:
6 Man Devestator Squad w/ 3 Heavy Bolters-
This is an extremely cheap way to throw in some good anti-troop firepower into the RG army. At only 135pts, most any army can afford some good covering fire. With a small squad size and 'worthless' weapon choice, many a Marine army (especially Chaos) tends to ignore such a squad, only to suffer 4-5 turns of sustained HB fire.
Overview: Cheap, Effective, Often Overlooked
8 Man Dev Squad w/ 4 Missle Launchers-
A bit more expensive at 200pts, but a great base for your firepower to rely upon. Tried and true in many marine armies, expect alot more fire to be aimed towards such a squad. A variation for low-points games is a 6man squad with 3 MLs, which functions as a more visible version of the above squad.
Overview: Moderately Priced, Very Effective, Easily Targetted
Whirlwind-
Perhaps the most fluffy tank to include in a RG force, calling down indirect bombardment fits the style very well. And with such a cheap price, most any force can afford one. Best used against high-firepower/cheap troop armies like IG and Tau, with CC horde armies coming in a close second. Against Marine armies, it won't be as effective, but you can still do some decent damage with a sustained barrage against a static foe (possibly pinning them), and destroying any Scouts the enemy may have.
Overview: Very Cheap, Situationally Effective, Situationally Targetted
Vindicator-
Some may consider the Vindi to be the most UN-fluffy tank for the RG, but I disagree. Every force must siege a foe from time to time, and the Vindi works wonders against hard to kill, dug-in foes like Necrons, IWs ,or any shooty Marine army. 2 uses for it generally. If assaulting a foe, use it like a big stick to protect your other units. Packing the most powerful weapon in the game sure makes people irrationally scared of such a tank. Against assaulty armies, deploy it to one side, out of direct LOS, but covering one approach to your lines. This tends to funnel the assault into one direction, easy to predict, and easy to counter-assault and kill.
Overview: Moderately Expensive, Extremely Effective, Highly Targetted
Predator Destructor-
Again, perhaps a bit unfluffy, but also a good source for some firepower. With a standard Autocannon, it makes a great transport killer if facing DE, Orks, or Eldar. With HB sponsons it is optimized to deal with high number armies. However, I feel the Devestators, Whirlwind, or Vindi to be better at thinning numbers down. Therefore, no sponsons or LC sponsons are your best bet. This makes it an optimized anti-medium-armor tank. Perhaps useful for you, perhaps not. With a good range however, you can afford one in larger games to deal with enemy transports/speeders.
Overview: Fairly Expensive, Somewhat Effective, Situationally Targetted
Land Raider-
The big mama herself, an iconic SM tank suitable for large engagements. Just stick to 2000pt+ games for this behemoth. With so many other expensive choices RG typically use, this is a bit too much to squeeze into any but the highest points games. When you do field it however, I find it best to hold a JP-less Assault Squad. You're taking a couple anyhow, so why not put it in a transport they can Furious Charge out of? I find a slow 6" advance firing Lascannons/HBs to work best in larger games, providing firepower and mobile cover for your other speedy elements. If used to 'sprint', charge a flank with it, so you can hit side armor and target vunerable squads easier with your weaponry.
Overview: Extremely Expensive, Very Effective, Highly Targetted (but tough)
I hope that more RG players take advantage of the HS choices they have available, small Devestator squads fit the fluff nicely, and don't break the points bank. But the Vindicator in particular I think also fits nicely (albiet in a 'sieging' army), and can be devestatingly effective if used with other high-powered units to concentrate force. Highly Recommended if fielding Shrike's Wing, if only to provide another target to shoot at.
I live to drink the blood of the innocents from goblets made of human skulls. I love to hear the tattered lamentations of those I've crushed, to see a shattered bleeding hulk of a once powerful man crawl limply to me on all fours to lick my hobnailed boot and beg for a quick and merciful dispatchment. I thrill with the power granted by me via foul incantations so unholy that their mere utterance blackens the lungs. Tears of joy greet my bloodstained cheeks when I inhale the pungent aroma of flayed flesh smouldering upon the wooden shards of blasted farmhouses, while my ears are filled with the piteous cries of terrified peasants scattering before my arcing blade. In all honestly, my goal within any situation is to become a solid mass of scar tissue and to stand atop a pile of indiscriminate human remains taunting the Gods themselves with my hideous unearthly strength.
#24
Posted 12 March 2005 - 04:03 AM
Red_Rook
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 28 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Heh, strangely enough I was planing on doing a 5th company Raven Gaurd force (one of you is doing 3rd and another 4th). I plan on painting them pretty much like most raven guard. Black with red shoulder markings etc. I do want to paint the diffrent squads with diffrent colors but I dont think I'll be using much besides scout squads, assault squads, and probably a terminator squad (may be unfluffy but I like the new termie models alot 
). The commanders based off the commander in the Chapter Approved article. "Aajz Solari" who seems to rely more on luck than tactics (recless but effective).
Most of my sergeants and commanders have names based off of Composers and Operas. I should post the list sometime
). The commanders based off the commander in the Chapter Approved article. "Aajz Solari" who seems to rely more on luck than tactics (recless but effective). Most of my sergeants and commanders have names based off of Composers and Operas. I should post the list sometime
#25
Posted 12 March 2005 - 06:51 AM
long fang coop
-
- + FRATER DOMUS +
-
- 660 posts
+FRATER DOMUS+
Good to see some excellent replys, but most of all more support for Project Raven Guard. you all deserve a big round of applause 
.
Hope you like the banners an i hope to see you all proudly showing them off in your sig's.
I will be back soon with some insight on scouts
Also i intend to post some of my own RG on Sunday (Aus time) and, if you so desire are free to post some of your Awesome Raven Guard artwork/conversions in here.
Be back soon
LFC!
P.S for those who are waiting for the Flash banners, do not lament they are coming very soon
P.P.S Do you think i should change my name to Corvus??? Im way more of a raven guard player thesedays and just wanted your input.
.Hope you like the banners an i hope to see you all proudly showing them off in your sig's.
I will be back soon with some insight on scouts
Also i intend to post some of my own RG on Sunday (Aus time) and, if you so desire are free to post some of your Awesome Raven Guard artwork/conversions in here.
Be back soon
LFC!
P.S for those who are waiting for the Flash banners, do not lament they are coming very soon
P.P.S Do you think i should change my name to Corvus??? Im way more of a raven guard player thesedays and just wanted your input.
From the darkness we strike; fast and
lethal, and by the time our foes can
react.... darkess there and nothing more
- Raven Guard saying
Community Forum Software by IP.Board
Licensed to: David Johnston (Brother Argos) and the Bolter and Chainsword
