Angron Khornate Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 This is the IA for my DIY chapter the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 Almost 22 hours and no replys :( , I'm gonna give this a bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Hey, don't worry - that fluff is awesome. I still have an issue with all the marines having wings, as that level of genetic tamepring WOULD bring down the heel of the inquisition (how do they send clean geneseed to Mars if all the brothers have the mutation?) Otherwise, really well thought out, nice color scheme and certainly good sue of the Chaos dex to represent this army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumir Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I agree compeatly with Hemal... the fluff is SSSSSSSOOOO good. Its good to see someone who puts a lot of time and thought into their work. But the point about the wings are true. The Inquisition would see the mutation and create and open war upon them with all the fury of the Golden Throne. However, you could make an arguement for certain veterans or command staff to have been given and extra gene-seed as a right of honour and rank- wings like their primearch. its just an idea but a very very good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Perhaps their pinions grow as they age, so initially, the wings are but buds on the back, maybe slight power armour modifications required, and obviously btears in the black carapace need to be opened up. Maybe even the genetic predisposition is actually enhanced through the use of implanting the stem cells of real giant eagle wings? Thus the younger marines are not able to fly, but have wings in various stages of growth, whilst more experienced Veterans are all be-winged.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 The Blood Angels are fully aware of the level of mutation within the WoS chapter, and whilst not overly concerned are concerned at the interest this would stir within the Inquisition, The BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Chapter Master Janos Audron: Janos Audron is the oldest living member of the WoS chapter, nearing xxxx years and seemingly as youthfull as ever he was, it is assumed that the WoS have inherited the long life of the BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rymeer Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Er, just my two cents worth here. You can use the standard 4th ed C:SM to represent your 'chapter'. Using the Traits section, you can make all tactical and devastator marines Infiltrate. I might suggest also the trait that allows you to give Furious Assault as well. In effect, your entire force is comprised of Assault Marines (excepting cultist foot troops). Winged marines setting up 12" or 18" from the enemy (depending upon if you're behind clover that blocks line of sight), who can move 12" and then close assault 6" is pretty good. I'd model all my winged marines with two 1-handed weapons such as chainswords and bolt pistols, or chainswords and plasma pistols. I'd also seriously concider giving Veterans and all sergeants Combat Shields with the possible addition of upgrading them to power weapons or power fists. NO armor at ALL?? Erf... And here you have the near-perfect force to be supported by multiple whirlwinds (chuck the codex rules and state that your chapter ONLY uses whirlwinds, and thus take 3 for heavy support, and perhaps 3 more for elites choices). Multiple Whirlwinds should 'thin out' the enemy's troops for your winged assaults to overrun them fast and efficiently, while the more heavily armed marines with lascannons, meltas, multi-meltas, missiles, etc, take out the enemy's armored support. As I said, just a few thoughts, Rymeer' BTW: I'd drop the 'getting gene-seed from the parent chapter' thing. No chapter has enough gene seed to 'double tithe' to Mars. The seed is too rare and too prized to 'waste' in such a manner. Your loyal chapter is being hounded by the ][, and I don't see a way around that. But perhaps, in time, your good deeds will change their minds... or the ]['s tracking you will just die of old age, or in some Chaos plot, and not be replaced. Only time and the Emperor's blessings will tell the tale of your chapter's struggle for acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 You could use the Blood ANgels list also - just have the retainers counting as space marine scouts (they could be hunters/armsmen skilled at infiltration) and have a few "scout biker squads" - maybe have again the bondsmen on some form of fast animal or primitive bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 IIRC commander Dante of the Blood Angels is over a thousand years old, and chaplain Cassius of the Ultramarines is over 400, though he's getting old, so maybe Audron could be somewhere in between? Yes, I didn't actually put in an age because I'm unaware of the average age of space marines, I do know that the Blood Angels have a few of the oldest if not the oldest amongts their ranks although I can't for the life of me find the piece of fluff which states the ages of the oldest marines. He's supposed to be old for a space marine, but not too old so as to overwrite current fluff, if anyone could give me a few ages of the oldest space marines it would be much appreciated. For now I'll change it to 800, thank you Tubal. You could use the Blood ANgels list also - just have the retainers counting as space marine scouts (they could be hunters/armsmen skilled at infiltration) and have a few "scout biker squads" - maybe have again the bondsmen on some form of fast animal or primitive bike?Actually I am using the blood angels list, I was originaly going to use the chaos codex, alpha legion rules, however I only noticed after making my initial army list and buying quite a large portion of my army that raptors are a 0-1 unit choice(silly me :P ), I then of course had to scrap that army list. I then looked at other possible chaos army lists, the night lords list was possible but it dissalowed the use of cultists/human warriors so that destroyed a large portion of my fluff(and made about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutogen Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Very nice background, I found the opening bit somewhat uninspired (good old "losts in the mists of time"), that bit could be made more interesting, say like the founders of the WoS were forced to leave the mainstream BA sucessors and form their own separate chapter (to protect the BA line from the inquisition), or something. Still very nice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 How about having the modification as one that is impanted rather than through genetic deviancy Most marines will not sprout wings normally, but will have winged implants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Good work, there has been a lot of thought go into this. :P It is clear that you are unpersuadable about the wings thing, and that is fine. It will be a cool modelling progect and will look very distinctive on the tabletop. However the geneseed sleight of hand from the BA seems strained as others have said. It also seems redundant, as the Imperium would not need to test the geneseed to notice that they are mutants as they unfurl honking great wings when they go into battle! ;) ;) I think you would really have to bite the bullet and make them renegades. They can still see themselves as loyal to the Emperor, but it would open up a whole range of interesting plot ideas to explore. Check out the Chapter Creation - Renegades thread for some ideas. Just seen Hemal's idea about the implants rather than the mutation idea - far more do-able. :lol: Either biological or advanced cybernetic 'wing' enhancements created by the chapter to honour the Primarch sound really cool. :( They would also get round the problem of the =][= wanting to vape them so they could happily stay loyalists. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 19, 2005 Author Share Posted March 19, 2005 How about having the modification as one that is impanted rather than through genetic deviancy Most marines will not sprout wings normally, but will have winged implants? Aha, thats exactly what I'v done :D , the growth of the wings is infact an extended form of the 'Ossmodula' implantation process, whereby the marines bones are hardened, extended and fused, the wings are simply a further bone growth which is encouraged during the marines implantation. Very nice background, I found the opening bit somewhat uninspired (good old "losts in the mists of time"), that bit could be made more interestingI agree, I found the IA incredibly hard to start and in the end I didn't so much 'think' about how I would start it as 'threw' myself at it. It is one of the points in the IA which I realy have to go back and do again and as soon as I come up with something good I'll do so. However the geneseed sleight of hand from the BA seems strained as others have said. It also seems redundant, as the Imperium would not need to test the geneseed to notice that they are mutants as they unfurl honking great wings when they go into battle I know, I was kind of hoping I could make it credible but I doubt I can. But as far as I understood it, marine chapters are autonomous organisations who only run into the inquisition once in a blue moon or unless they do something very stupid openly. I was kind of hoping I could just say they avoided the =][= and leave it at that, but it seems not(I kind of knew that anyway... :( ) Just seen Hemal's idea about the implants rather than the mutation idea - far more do-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 19, 2005 Author Share Posted March 19, 2005 Ok, I just editted my IA somewhat, more or less how I said I would in my previous post, again any and all input will be appreciated. :D I'm still working on a new opening, that may take a while longer though...I hate openings :cry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I'm not sure what the Blood Angels would think of it but the WoS could grow their own BA geneseed using slaves the same way the Adeptus Mechanicus does it when they create a new chapter. Basically they implant geneseed into a human as normal, strap him down into monitoring machines and "harvest" him after a few years. They wouldn't have to worry about the supply that way. Also, since you've already changed army lists once you don't mind a few suggestions do you? :) "The rituals themselves are a guarded secret, but they do help to keep the WoS bloodthirst at bay." You could use C:SM with the trait that lets you take extra assault squads, it makes the army more predictable and removes the Death Company as it's suggested by the fluff that they don't need it. You can still use inquisitorial troops to represent the native warriors. For a completely different army you could use the Lost and the Damned list. It gives you lots of low grade scum with a few marines to back them up. Just choose traitors and traitor tanks/sentinels from that list and fill up with as many chaos troops as you can. For example: one lord with flight(HQ), one unit of possessed with flight(Elite), one unit of raptors (FA) and two units of infiltrating marines representing younger marines gliding in on smaller wings before the battle, fill up the rest with traitors. Just some ideas, I kind of like the more extreme version of the chapter :) As you said, the galaxy is a big place and as long as they are careful they shouldn't be detected by the inquisition too easily and they could have a "clipped" delegation to deal with imperial representatives, marine politicians if you will. Eye-witnesses reporting "winged giants" would probably be put down to exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rymeer Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I think I may remove my references to mutation and replace them with my 'Ossmodula' implantation explanation, I will also use that as the explanation for the low marine count, the proccess being highly dangerous and 3 out of 5 times results in an abnormal bone growth which more often than not either causes death or grounds for the candidates extermination. Perhaps those that fail, and do NOT die, have their failed wings removed and they provide for a 'show of force' that the ][ would not even turn a hair at. Standard Marines is what they see, and seeing is believing. :D If the ][ only see the 'clipped' failures, then the true force is never known, and not aknowledged, and thus, the ][ has no reason to inspect your chapter in detail. yeah, there seem to be more reports of 'winged gods' wherever this chapter goes, but they seem to be 'normal' marines. Nothing to be concerned with... yet. Just a few thoughts, Rymeer P.S. I still say the use of Whirlwinds for support, crewed by the clipped failures, is a good idea. But hey, that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 MUCH better - I love the background, and hopefully the rules play nicely as well - cool, wel done.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 I'm not sure what the Blood Angels would think of it but the WoS could grow their own BA geneseed using slaves the same way the Adeptus Mechanicus does it when they create a new chapter. Well in the new version of the fluff geneseed supply isn't that much of a problem so I don't need to worry about it or elaborate on it, in any case they probably just do it like most other chapters, geneseed taken from battle brothers. "The rituals themselves are a guarded secret, but they do help to keep the WoS bloodthirst at bay."You could use C:SM with the trait that lets you take extra assault squads, it makes the army more predictable and removes the Death Company as it's suggested by the fluff that they don't need it. that pieve of fluff was originally put in place to explain the lack of DC in my army list(at the time of writing I was using the codex:CSM), thinking about it now I no longer need it and I'll most likely remove it, but I'll keep it on the side, I haven't settled on an army list yet and I'll be trying variations of codex blood angels and SM so it may still get used. Well see. For the time being I'll remove it, the main contender is codex blood angels. For a completely different army you could use the Lost and the Damned list:) I'v had a look over the LATD list and it's not the kind of thing I want for my army personaly, a few too many drawbacks for my tastes. I kind of like the more extreme version of the chapter :) As you said, the galaxy is a big place and as long as they are careful they shouldn't be detected by the inquisition too easily and they could have a "clipped" delegation to deal with imperial representatives, marine politicians if you will. Eye-witnesses reporting "winged giants" would probably be put down to exaggeration. I liked the more extreme version too, but when I did try to push the 'clipped delegation' scenario most people didn't like it and then tried to push my chapter into a confrontation with the =][=, which I don't want in any version of my fluff, it's not a story arc I care for and one I personaly find overdone nowadays. Tis a good suggestion though and one I like. :P P.S. I still say the use of Whirlwinds for support, crewed by the clipped failures, is a good idea. But hey, that's just me.I hate painting vehicles :) In saying that though, no-ones stopping you making your own winged DIY chapter ;) MUCH better - I love the background, and hopefully the rules play nicely as well - cool, wel done.. ;) thank you, I also hope the army plays well...although I'm more concerned with wether or not an entire army of space marines each with a pair of wings will look good. :) Edit: on a side note I should have a few pictures of my first test model up tonight!! yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Wheres the piccies? Was looking forward to them :cry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utilityzero Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 hi everyone, greetings from mississippi, it turns out this state actually has internet access. ;) anywhoo... it's nice tyo see a DIY BA chapter that actually uses the BA rules set. that's where my chapter coems from so of course i really like to see others make the right decision. :P as far as the wings thing... well, initially i would have told you to make only the DC have sings, sort of like that black dragons chapter with the crazy growths? but you seem to have a wing fetish. :devil: so i'll just let it go i suppose. anyway, i too am a legacy of kain fan and i think your chapter will have excellent character. i think i remember you saying you wanted to have the older marines have three fingered hands like the characters in the game and have them count as lightning claws... i would always advocate staying away from the mutation route, you could just say that for some reason the chapter chooses to model its lightning claws like that. (maybe to emulate some sort of blood sucking creature native to their home world?) all in all, i'm a fan i guess, keep up the good work and stay true to the blood angels brother. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Wheres the piccies? Was looking forward to them :cry2: I'm sorry!!! :devil: I'm not the one with the camera unfortunately so I have to have other people kindly take the pictures and send them to me, I thought I would have my pics tonight, but it appears not. :P As for the model, he's a veteran sergeant, with GS sculpted long blonde hair, fully spread out wings in hughes of deep blue with edges and tips of white, oh and he has blue skin :D yes, blue skin, don't ask me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Blue skin? Why? Just messing with you :P I'm still waiting for the pics though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angron Khornate Posted March 26, 2005 Author Share Posted March 26, 2005 I know this topics been dead for a few days now but...hey-ho-hey, I have a picture. I'v posted a topic in the PC&A forum so you can follow the link if you wish: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t=0#entry808379 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Excellent. I hope that skintone is as pale as you suggested in RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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