Bloodied Fist Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Having ruined my test victim last night let me offer a bit of advice to the others trying to learn from this thread: make sure you do not load too much paint onto your brush! I accidentally overloaded a couple of times and ended up with small pools which cause an uneven coloration because the paint is dilute enough to make each layer somewhat translucent. I suggest dabbing the side of your brush on an absorbent surface like the towel you use to clean it after loading. There will still be plenty of paint on the brush, but not so much that you will cause pools. I will post pics of my attempts when I have something that doesn't look like it belongs on a Nurgle model. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boltman Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Yes, again, from the latest post I made last page, Your brush needs to be practically empty of paint. Use Boltman's Wet Towel Tactic :lol: Bloodied Fist, I often mess up my surface myself by applying too much paint. But if it's wet enough, a wet, clean brush can scrub off the mistake. Don'T be afraid to post pictures if they are less than perfect, this if for everyone to learn from, not just show successes. Low paint consistency and low paint quantity in your brush is the trick. Boltman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baffy Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Thanks Boltman. That explained a whole lot about how to think light and indirect light, not only for NMM's but for ordinary painting too. Please accept my applogies about the sword, seeing too many masterpieces in one day isn't good for the brain it seems. Sorry Bushido. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxxim Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I knew there was somethig else that had been left out.... I was thinking that there was no way you were working with the paint at the consistancy of milk all the time.... I must say that using a wet pallete on my end does help a little since I can work with super thin paints already right off the pallete. I`ll do up another sample using the moist towel method.... If I can get it looking good I`ll see if I can break out the digi cmacorder and get some clear video avi`s.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayeL Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Thanks for all the help Boltman, Love your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Tancred Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 This is a very helpful thread guys, sure would love to see this one get pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokersminis Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Ditto the pinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Standard paints used (Citadel, Vallejo, Reaper, etc..) are acrylic paints. Ya, oils take a day to dry well. But the blending abilities they offer are incredible. I also wonder if you can paint oils over acrylics... I wonder if drybrushing with oils produces a less "dusty" appearance than acrylics do... I need to experiment one day. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have played some with oils on minis, it was interesting to play with, but I still prefer them for canvas.. Oils do take a long time to dry, but that is the advantage. They lend themselves to wet blending. Wetblending is MUCH harder with acrylics because of the fast drying time. If you are used to acrylics, oils might just frustrate you to no end, because just when you think they are dry ....they aren't ... To answer your question you can paint over oils, with acrylics, but the oils must be completely dry otherwise the acrylics will separate. A coat of dullcoate doesn't hurt either :lol: but overall I wouldn't recommend it without alot of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moribund the Burgermeister Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Use Boltman's Wet Towel Tactic :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I love that smilie! ;) It's cute! Thank you for this tutorial, your models really makes me want to do a real painting and converting project, using all means nessecary to get things the way I want them. At the moment, my motto seems to be "When all areas are base coated, layered two times, highlighted and inked, I'm outta here!". Not anymore (until I get my WB's done)! Cheers, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkkultist Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 This is a great tutorial boltman - and i love the direction this whole thread is evolving. Well done. tkkultist AKA James K. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I will try this in a couple of weeks - no more painting silver armour for me my precious :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliekickflip Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Hey Boltman, heres a wip using your nnm technique with a little of my own spin on the color combo as well. I got excited and desided to make the cherubs entirely gold as well. Anyways, cc is welcome. Thanks! http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/olliekickflip/saint-celestine1.jpg Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtrAxX Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Dear Lord...Beautiful Ollie!! I have nothing else to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi_soldier Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Wow ollie, nice work... just goes to show what a well made tutorial can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boltman Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 It was a pleasure to briefly meet you at LAGD, Olliekickflip, I hope our paths cross again, but you'll have to visit up north a bit ;) Are you telling us you made this, learned this NMM display, from my tutorials? :jaw: :jaw: WOW! Most impressive! Now obviously you've had practice before this one and made darn sure it was excellent before posting (c'mon now, don't take 'old Boltman for a fool :eek). Or am I such a good teacher?? :jaw: :eek You can tell yourself that this is a major success, the effect, on picture at least, is stunning and very convincing. HOWEVER! I must remain constructive, and since your effort clearly deserves an effort on my side to critique, here are a few things I would touch up to complete the NMM. The Halo spikes, specifically the ones angled horizontally and perhaps the ones just above, could use counter reflection from underneath. Take the one on the right: the underside is very dark. That's not wrong, but on such a highly reflective piece, I think you are ready to convey the reflection of adjacent surfaces. A simple way would be to hilight the bottom of that surface, bright towards the ground. This is meant to represent light diffused from below reflecting on the gold, mirror-like surface. You should not go as bright as the top surface, perhaps only go as bright as you would halfway through your hilights on top, to clearly show the surface is not directly exposed to your light source. Another way would be to hilight and add in a hint of blue to your gold, to show reflection of blue light bouncing off the shoulderpad of the armor. This is easier said than done, and I have not yet had the chance to try this out myself, with my many gaming projects intervening (Curse the gaming for being fun!:jaw: ) I would suggest applying so regular gold hilights underneath to get a paler base to work on top of, and add gradually brighter thin glazes of blue, and this makes sense to you. The cherubs are not easy at all to paint in SENMM gold, and you've done it admirably, in fat I'm saving your picture right now in my "Boltman's Reference Folder" for future use. The white cloth is excellent though still not perfectly smooth, I think it's definetly going back to blend and blend some more those color transitions to make it perfect. You've got the makings of a Golden Demon here (have you ever won one?) Finish it up and get down to GD Chicago to claim a trophy! Keep pushing on everything to make this one flawless, it's really worth it. If I were a GD judge, I would have the following additionnal critique; - The gold on the helmet on the ground, though it should appear darker since farther away from the light source, could use more contrast in the NMM as it is not as convincing as the rest. I suggest brighter hilights on the edges, but an overall weaker presence of the brighter tones. Go from very dark in your gold to very bright still, just dont stay too long in the middle tones and "accelerate " the brightness change to go to bright over a small distance on your surface. - The red cape kills the model a bit. It's very well blended, the technique is there, but light placement is too uniform, the light is applied everywhere the cloth makes a fold, light being the brighest at the sharpest edge, but remaining the same brightness as you move down the cape. You should strive for a stronger presence of light towards the top of your model, further emphasizing the presence and magnitude of the pose of Celestine. That means the red folds should go a bit darker as you go down, and you should reorient the light placement to <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION> it where light would hit the cape coming from the top. Hopefully Moderators will allow this picture to slip for the purpose of learning. Galadriel's Robe was painted in that fashion. Notice the brighter colors on the shoulders, left forearm, head, and folds at the back of the robe, by the base. These are all surfaces pointing towards teh light, receiving more light than a vertical robe surface. Additionnally, even though the folds at the bottom of the robe are pointing straight up, they are still a little darker than the surfaces pointing the same way, but at the very top of the miniature. These subtleties, when consistently applied throughout your model, will really add to the realism of teh piece. This is one of the majoy differences that set European pieces apart with their "style". Therefore, the folds on the outside of the cape are more at and angle, and the light should land onthem on the sides most, and not where the fold turns sharpest. - Color coordination. I personally find that the red clashes. It's very well done, but It takes too muck of the attention off the gorgeous blue and gold rendition. The white of teh lower cloth is subtler and compliments the model far more in my opinion. THis is up to you of course since you'Ve already worked hard on it, but I think if the whole cape was done with your beigish-greyish-white, St-Celestine would just jump out at you even further. You must know that the fewer the colors the better. Color richness can be gained through shading with a different color, for instance green in the red. You have blue that sets the cold tone, then yellows and golds for a rich, warmer contrast, and a white with purple/brown in the shades, which is a great middle ground for the two. Wether planned or not, I think the colors are excellently picked, again except for the red which clashes a bit and though very nice, is not as breathtaking as the other colors. I would do white and some nice freehand pattern at teh bottom of the cape for extra GD brownie points. - The face is a focal point, it has to be perfect as eyes are drawn there. IT is very well painted, but the shading is in the pinkish purplish tones, it seems hesitant between the gold warmth and the blue cold. I would add a hing of warmer tones like elf flesh in the face to get a little sunnier. Keep your purplish shades though as it adds color contrast. Galadriel has dark blue in the shades of the visage and yellows in the hilights for instance. There, I said everything I could think of about teh model. These are simply trains of thought, things to consider that you may not have at first, ideas to ponder upon simply. Make no mistake I am quite impressed by your model, it stands out magnificiently. Your technique is very strong and NMM is a strength you exploited very well. I think your weakness now is color coordination, as you might have one color too many, with yellow gold, blue armor, red cape, white cloth and face with purple tones. Again, amazing work, the blue armor and the Gold are fantastic, I find no fault, and you clearly know your stuff. Now did you really learn from my simple little tutorial? :eek Boltman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliekickflip Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 :P Wow, that was more of a reply than I had expected. No actually that is exactally what I expected...thats why I love your critiques. Very complete to say the least. You would make an excellent school teacher. As for the model, yes I used your nnm tutorial and your tutorial on painting Magmatrax exclusively. Both excellent and easy to decifer what you were talking about. I have never won a Golden Demon, of course that is what I am working towards. It is funny that you mentioned the gold on the helmet not being as good as the halo and cherubs. I painted the halo and helmet first with okay results (using my own methods)...then went back to your tutorial and applied as much of your teachings as I could to the halo. Then I went on to painting the cherubs but failed to redo the helmet. Any ways I still need to redo the helmet so that it matches the rest of the gold on the model. Thanks for reminding me! I think the reflections of the bottoms of the halo spikes is an excelent idea. The reflection of the blue armor could be a really cool effect. I will definately try that! As for the cape...(tears streaming down face)...your not the first to say that about the red. I did some further lowlighting on the cape with green (advice taken from the Bragonart website) and it did give it really good depth, however it is still red and thats a problem. The only reason I went with red is the stone color just seemed too, well, blah... Here is an updated pic with the cape having more shadows. The cape is actually tilted so the shadows are darkest at the top as apposed to the bottom. The stone color is a heck of a lot easer to paint so it is not that big of a deal changing the red to stone. It will also open my color choices for the freehand on the cape as well. As for the face, I haven't really even started to paint it. I put to base colors on and it looked way to pink so I went on to other things. Thanks for the color suggestions on that as well. I have never painted a womans face so it should be quite an agrivating challenge but an excellent learning experience. Any ways, thanks for the comments on how to make this better! ollie Edit...switched picture The whole hue and saturation thing Mario was talking about got me thinking that maybe I could try that in photoshop first. That way I could try a couple color combos before repainting the cape. Here it is, the red one is the original...what do you think? http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/olliekickflip/Celestine.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I just saw that. Great work. Better than my Celestine and I dig the golden Cherubs, nice idea, mine has the classic "Adeptus Administratum zombie sick greeinsh" and I didn't have any super shiny armour. I don't have much to say (Boltman said nearly everything) so I will just try to help with some colour ideas. For the face you could use some yellow or orange for the brow/forehead. That's for the "sunlight" shining from the top. The area aroung the nose and eyes could stay pinkish/reddish because that are has a lot of blood flowing through it. For the jaw and lower area you could use blueish shadings but caution or it could end uplooking like stubble. The only thing where I disagree is the cape. In the first picture the cape has the same and saturation and value as the armour. You reduced the saturation a bit but the value is still there. So it's still fighting for dominance with the main part of the miniature. Painting it in the white-beige-grey it would win on the value side even though it lost on the saturation part. That would make the cape compete with the dominant part of the miniature (and reducing the effect of face, gold parts, white loin cloth, little birdie and sword). I would recommend to reduce the saturation even more, and to reduce the value to something darker. And moving the hue in the direction of the armour's colour would unifiy the whole thing more. In short: I think you should add some (probably a lot) thin glazes of purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boltman Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 I disagree with Mario on the cape. No one's right in my opinion, it's simply "different opinions". The photoshop trials are most excellent, I wish I could do that when I'm struggling for color choices... Looking at your white cape, the cape itself almost dissapear, but that may be the white background (try a darker background). SO I don'T think it is competing for attention, white makes the blue armor and gold cherubs stand out very nicely in my opinion. I must say that teh teal color stands out nicely though, though it lacks a color tie with the rest of the miniature. Perhaps fairly large white lines on the teal cape would tie it in with the bottom cloth. Then again, some blue freehand on the white cape would also make a strong tie to the miniature... I would go the white way, with blue on the freehand. And kep the area around the blue armor darker to accentuate depth of cape folding behind the armor. What color of sword are you planning on? Boltman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliekickflip Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Here you go. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/olliekickflip/Celestine2.jpg Oh, and the sword, I was thinking would be nnm silver and pink roses... :) ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 They look all great, damn. Could you try to reduce the saturation of the cape even more (more dark grey)? And you could you try another variation: move the purple hue a bit in the red direction (I think it's called crimson in english) but when you do that reduce the value (in addition to the saturation reduction from the above sentence) a bit in addition because red is brighter than purple in it's natural state. That should move the cape even more in the background and give you a nice area for some bright, little freehand decoration. The white cape ties nicely with the white loin cloth so like Boltman said it a personal choice. It depens on what results you want. The purple is a nice complement to the gold. And you said that you want the sword to be silver. And if it's bright then it will have a similar hue/saturation/value as the loin cloth and cape. That would be some competition that the small sword can't win. I think crimson (see first paragraph) could be the better choice if the sword is to be bright (near white too). Damn where is the cheerleader smilie when you need it. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obliterator Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Excellent St.Celestine, olliekickflip! Outstanding work. I really like the golden cherubs :angry: . Looks like you learn fast, eh :lol: ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageofgold Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Yeah nmm silver for the sword would be a a good choice and so would the pink, but make sure the pink isnt to bright to take away from the beautiful blue armor! N :P ice worf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus the red Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 damn thats the reverse of my celestine. Ive done a dark blue cloak with white cloth trims cherubs etc. Just wondering is it possible to do SENNM or plain NMM on the armour. If so how. Cheers Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost03 Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Very nice work, It's kinda funny but ive done the exact same thing with the armour. (ive never seen the model., i swear! lol) I picked up the model the other day since its gorgeous and have been wanting to do some Witch Hunter models in bright blue armour. Seems like you beat me to it. But i planned on doing silver NMM (other than the hilt of the sword) instead and a staying with cool colors http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/Vital51/SC2.jpg Im actually going to enter mine in a local comeptition. But im not sure which category i will fit in depending on the age, seeing as im 15. (you dont have to believe it). I still have a long time to get techniques right only been painting for a little under 4 years, but only trying out new techniques and spending more time on painting for 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robofish Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Hey, i see it's been a long time since the last post, but do you have any tips for applying this to a curved suface, Paricularly the trim on a marines shoulder pad, My last army was painted using a spray can and now i'm back into the hobby after a lengthy absense, I'm hoping to take advantage of some of these amazing techinques i never knew existed, if only i can work out how. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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