32 replies to this topic

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Hi,

I´m having yet another game against my Arch-enemies tomorrow (those weedy ´nillas with their Grey Knight allies ).
This time I´m giving the massed Land Raider list of mine a chance...

A few years back, when the new Chaos Codex was released and along with it, a new Chaos Land Raider with its new Chaos vehicle accessory sprue, I got hold of two dirt-cheap Chaos Land Raiders of the older variant (basically an Loyalist Land Raider with some spiky sprues). Those were sold out cheap to give place for the newer variant and I bought them (reckoned my Long Fangs needed a real transport or something like that... ).
They have been lying in my closet for quite a few years, until a few weeks ago...

Basically it´s more for the style as I personally don´t think it´s a *good* list but reading on Forums, it seems some people thinks it´s "cheesy", having several Land Raiders.
Personally, I´ve never had any problems, taking them out and hardly think they´re worth their points (atleast not more than one!).
Oh, by the way, the last two times I faced my friend´s Land Raider, the guy I´m facing tomorrow, I destroyed it on turn 2 with a lascannon, Pinning some stuff it tranported. Since then, my friend regard them as "crap" so I´m not that worried about him complaining, he have already stated them as useless...

Enough rant, here´s the list:

2000p Space Wolves

Wolf Lord w. frost axe, storm bolter, runic charm, terminator armour. 125p
Wolf Guard Bodyguard (4) w. 2 assault cannons, 1 combi-flamer, 1 combi-melta, 3 lightning claws, 1 chain fist, runic charms. 260p
Land Raider transport w. extra armour, smoke launchers, searchlight. 259p

Wolf Guard Battle Leader w. lightning claws, frag grenades. 91p

Venerable Dreadnought w. twin-linked lascannon, heavy flamer, extra armour, smoke launchers. 193p

Wolf Scouts (5+1) w. 2 plasma pistols, 1 melta gun. 100p
Wolf Guard Leader w. lightning claws, melta bombs, wolf tooth necklace. 63p

Grey Hunter Pack (10) w. frag grenades, 2 power fists, 2 plasma pistols, 1 melta gun. 240p

Blood Claw Pack (9) w. 2 power fists. 150p

2 Land Raiders w. extra armour, smoke launchers, searchlight. 259p*2

That´s it!
From the beginning I had no Terminators but another cheap "assault" Grey Hunter Pack but I figured it was a good idea, fielding my Wolf Guard Terminators when I use the Land Raiders as lets face it, Land Raiders was built so Termies don´t have to walk into a fight...

Expect a battle report here, later tomorrow and please, comment it, but keep any death threats to my PM box...

Cheers!

[the great beaver]

you know, its true that a land raider can be taken out on turn 1-2 by a lascannon, but Ive had mine stand up to slightly massed railcannon fire with no problem

good luck

[Librarian- Melechor]

Hey Wolf lord D, I have 3 land-raiders so i understand completely. The fact that they usually get blown up or trap my squads inside matters little. As for that list, i say it is solid, (minus the fact that tanks take up 1/3f the points But the land raiders usually make an enemy quiver in his boots, so they usually try to take them out right away. I think it provides the rest of your army with a chance to jump him, unless they die in the land raider I'm not so sure about the dread with lascannon, an assault cannon would be better suited, since you have 6 other twin-linked lascannons!

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

you know, its true that a land raider can be taken out on turn 1-2 by a lascannon, but Ive had mine stand up to slightly massed railcannon fire with no problem 

good luck

Thanks. Yeah, I´ve used the first one a few times (my buddy know I have one but might suspect I have more... ), it have actually never been knocked out but have takena few melta bomb hits (2 I think) as well as being penetrated by lascannons, without getting destroyed. I have even duelled with his ´Raider, and won!
They´re tough, but a unit of similar points value are (IMHO) almost always *better*...

I think it provides the rest of your army with a chance to jump him

What "rest of your army"..? I hardly have anything else..!

I'm not so sure about the dread with lascannon, an assault cannon would be better suited, since you have 6 other twin-linked lascannons!

I agree, a bit... Originally it had an assault cannon, but I wanted to keep it flexible, I figured I might wanna hold back and 24" aint that good... I was thinking about my plasma Dread but for some reason I picked the twin-linked lascannon Dread...
Atleast I might have enough AT- fire power that way...

[barek]

Like your list!
Dont worry: provided you bless your dice, Raiders can be rock solid.
Couldn't kill the 2 raiders from my DW opponent the last time we fought. My dice were angry with me. Didn't make much mistakes, honestly. His Land Raider and dreadnaught killed a predator Annihilator, a predator Destructor with lascannon sponsons, my lovely Vindicator and 4 Rhino's, which meant footslogging for me... Augh. No more deploying on the short table edges and 15 turn last-man-standing-slugfests for me. :: Whatever: bless your dice and you should be fine.
Succes!

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Thanks!

Problem is, the first time I used my Vindicator, Predator Annihilator and Predator Destructor, I lost all three in turn two, to glancing hits... (He got four glancing hits, rolled three 6 and a 5... )

I bet it will be a good laugh though and his face, probably aprice-less expression when I pull them out...

[barek]

[quote name='Problem is' date=' the first time I used my Vindicator, Predator Annihilator and Predator Destructor, I lost all three in turn two, to glancing hits... [/quote']

Yeah.... I know what you mean.... Happened to this wolf lord to. Lost them to those pesty Land Raiders..... The Horror.... Raiders are STRONG.

[littlbitz]

At 1850 points I actually have a 3 land Raider list I use. And have some success at RTT with it (though I have yet to try and pull it off at a GT).
The list is 3 WGBL with Frost Weapons and bp
2 Grey Hunter packs with 2 powerfists (they all have bp/ccw)
1 Blood Claws pack
2 land Raiders
1 land Raider Crusader
Wolf Scouts

Thats it. Lemme tell you, it can be tricky to use but man does it hit hard.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Now I know where I recognized your name from , littlbitz! (I think! )

I read about your 3 Land Raider list on the Warmonger Club as well as on Dakka (Ed mentioned it some time) and later PM:ed Mauleed about which friend of his, using that and if I could get that friend´s email adress (was gonna ask about your list for ideas)!
I never sent any mail though, to lazy I think...
I´ve gotta try something like that as well, but we mostly play either 1500p or 2000p here.

Yeah.... I know what you mean.... Happened to this wolf lord to. Lost them to those pesty Land Raiders..... The Horror.... Raiders are STRONG.

I´ll take your word for it. How does your usual list looks like..?
Oh, and noone have asked why I didn´t use four (3 as Heavy Support and another for the Wolf Guards)...


...well, I *only* have three..!

[barek]

That particular list was something like: Ven D (TLLC), RP, WP, 2 GH squads in Rhino's (2 PF, MG, PP) 2 BC squads in Rhino's (2PF), Pred Ann., Pred Dest., Vindicater. Second 4th ed. game against Deatwing. About 1900 + points from the top of my hat. Wanted to find out whether Rhino's indead have become deathtraps, used my Vindi to block LOS or fire magnet. Tried to take out his LR and Dread with my HS, while moving up all Rhino's and my Vindi to overwhelm. He took out all my HS in the second turn, after that every Rhino was smoked. Deployment on the short tabel edge didn't help of course. Rhino rush is dead indead. I'm building a Landraider right now, and will buy a Crusader tomorow.
Gotta go now!

[littlbitz]

Yeah, Duregar thats me. I'm a semi-regular opponent of Eds as well as many of the Warmongers.
I think I even posted about the "Raider Rush" list on this board, though that was awhile ago now.
Like all my lists, it can be a hard hitter. But its tricky to use, but it can win even against horde armies.
Oh, and when you show up at a tourney with 3 Landraiders and your not Deathwing, you get lots of looks and mumblings behind your back its loads of fun.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

I'm building a Landraider right now, and will buy a Crusader tomorow.

I´m tempted about that as well, but as I already have three ´Raiders, I might hold on a bit...

Oh, and when you show up at a tourney with 3 Landraiders and your not Deathwing, you get lots of looks and mumblings behind your back its loads of fun.

Do they take it, "well" or do you get a lot of whining..? I would probably be glad if I met three Land Raiders in a tournie, I think...
You don´t have any pics of yours..?
I had actually forgot how cool Land Raiders are, gotta use them more often...

As for the battle, we´re ready now, was fun but my I rolled as usual, ie. not good while my opponent rolled well, you´ll see...

We played an Alpha Seek & Destroy, I let my opponent palce the terrain (without knowing what I was using. He did know I was playing Sw´s, but that´s it.).
The table looked roughly like this:

123
456

1 - One large ruin, two storeys high
2 - One ruin, made out of GW corners, so you could see through it
3 - One large forest (a GW hill covered in lichen)
4 - One forest (GW trees) and a rock formation
5 - Another GW "corner-ruin"
6 - Two large forests (also GW hills covered in lichen, level 3 terrain)

That´s a lot of terrain...
The Loot-counters were in the middle (three of them), about 24" from both sides.

I lost the roll for chosing sides and got the 4-5-6 as my opponent wanted the side with more LOS-blocking terrain, funny..!

He had, roughly:

1 Master w. plasma pistol, power weapon, terminator honours, infiltrate.
1 Command Squad (10) w. 1 melta gun, 1 plasma gun, 1 veteran sergeant w. power fist, bolt pistol, infiltrate.

1 Dreadnought w. asscan, smoke (no extra armour!).

1 Grey Knight Squad (8), Deep Striking (Fast Attack choice?).

1 Tactical Squad (10) w. 2 plasma guns, 1 veteran sergeant w. power fist, bolt pistol.
Rhino w. smoke launchers, extra armour. 58p

1 Tactical Squad (10) w. 1 plasma gun, 1 melta gun, 1 veteran sergeant w. power fist, bolt pistol.
Rhino w. smoke launchers, extra armour. 58p

1 Assault Squad (10) w. 2 plasma pistols, 1 veteran sergeant w. power fist.

2 Land Speeder Tornadoes w. asscans (single Squadrons).

1 Whirlwind w. vengeance missiles.

1 Predator Annihilator w. lascannon sponsons.

1 Predator Annihilator w. heavy bolter sponsons.

Looking at it, the Land Speeders seems to be the most dangerous things and then the Predators so No.1 objective is knocking out first the Speeders then the Preds.

I placed one Raider, with the Grey Hunters on my left, with the Wolf Lord´s ´Raider to its right, both in cover behind the forest.
The last ´Raider with the Blood Claws was hidden behind the forest in area 6 while the Vennie was inside that forest.
He placed from (my) left to right, lascannon Annihilator, Land Speeder, Whirlwind, Tactical with melta-plasma and their Rhino, Assault Squad, Command Squad, Annihilator w. heavy bolters, plasma-plasma Tactical, Land Speeder.
Most stuff was hidden.

Not as detailed as my usual battle reports, but here is:

To be continued...

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

I hate my ´puter... Wrote turns 1-3 and before I hit the "Add Reply" button, the weedy computer re-started...

Anyways, we rolled for the first turn and I got a 4 while he got a 2, thinking about it, I took the first turn though I usually don´t, in this kind of mission.
All Land Raiders advanced 6" to shoot at (almost) full effect while I tried to stay out of LOS from most of his asscans and lascannons.
The Wolf Lord´s Land Raider and the Vennie managed to shake a Rhino... But the Blood Claws ´Raider blew a Land Speeder out of the sky (un-carefully placed out of cover).
The Grey Hunter ´Raider tried to shoot at his lascannon Predator but the netting I though was clear to shoot through, my opponent didn´t... As we hadn´t discussed the terrain (forgot that) I gave him the benefit and shot at the Assault Marines instead, and killed one.

´nillas turn 1.
He played catious, but still sent out both Predators from their hiding as well as the last Speeder, the rest advances through cover or behinf their smoked Rhinos.
The first shot, from his lascannon Predator managed to shake the Grey Hunters ´Raider but only shook it (well, stunned, but I had extra armour).
The Land Speeder was different though, it saw about an inch of the Wolf Lord´s Raider, shot (23" away...), hit twice and got one Rending hit, getting another 6 and I failed the "cover save" so it got destroyed by a "5" on the penetrating hit table...
Bad... And I should have disembarked but fourtunaley, none got wounded...
That meant, however, that the other Predator had no target, atleast something to be glad for...

Not too good a first turn...

[Librarian- Melechor]

Sounds like what happens to me. He had 2 landspeeders and 2 preds, sheesh. But sounds like the games just gettin better! How did everything else do?

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

I hate my computer...

Space Wolves turn 2,
No Scouts this turn...
But, instead of crawling into a corner, sucking on my thumb because of losing one of the ´Raiders, I pushed on forward (you should have seen his face, when I deployed the Land Raider, by the way... )
The Grey Hunter Land Raider took cover from the lascannon Annihilator behind the forest while the other one advanced slightly, to shoot his Dreadnought or the Rhino on my right, Vennie stomped forward, covered by the forests, but could draw a line of sight to the offending Speeder on the other side of tha table.
Opening up with the Vennie, I dropped the Speeder ahile the Blood Claw Land Raider stunned his Dreadnought, standing in a forest (I only glanced it).

´nillas turn 2.
His reinforcements didn´t arrive either and he was a bit cautios even this turn.
The lascannon Predator, not seeing the Grey Hunter´s Land Raider anymore, advanced 6" to shoot back at my Venerable Dread, the other Predator stayed put to shoot up me (the Wolf Lord and Bodyguard ).
The rest continued to advance up through the ruins, or behind the Rhinos.
In the shooting phase, the Venerable Dread got hit by a lascannon shot but I passed the Obscured save this time and didn´t even had to use the Hard to Kill special rule, he rolled a "1", shaking the Dread.
Long range fire from one Tactical and the heavy bolter Annihilator killed two Wolf Guards (the combi-melta and combi-flamre guys).

Space Wolves turn 3.
The Wolf Scouts turn up, great! I moved them up beside his Predator Annihilator with heavy bolters while the Grey Hunter ´Raider moved out of cover, to shoot up the other Predator.
On the other flank, the Blood Claw´s Land Raider "shuffled" slightly, to try to pop the Rhino over there (no longer smoked).
In the centre, there was a little to much plasma, so the Wolf Lord and two remaining friends to a route behind their smoking ride and targetted the Annihilator with lascannons, in case the BC ´Raider missed it...
I started with the Wolf Guards in the shooting phase, just reaching the lascannon Pred and got two Rending shots, one glancing and one penetrating.
The result? Shaken and weapon destroyed (the turret! )...
In the centre, vennie blasted his Dread to pieces while the BC ´Raider managed to penetrate a Rhino twice as well as glancing it with its heavy bolters but I rolled three "1s" so only shook it...
In his centre, the Wolf Scouts shot at the other Pred, penetarted but only stunned and immobilized it, charging in, the Wolf Guard Leader managed to plant his melta bombs and blow it though, but there were alot of enemy infantry close by...
The final shoting vame from my BC `Raider, which managed to blast his Dread to pieces.

´nillas, turn 3.
No Grey Knights this turn either...
At this point, he started to look a little bit worried, as he didn´t have much AT-firepower left, but he continued his cautios advance.
The Wolf Lord and pals took a few bolter rounds (the plasmas and melta shots from an advancing Tactical just didn´t had the range to reach them...) but I passed the saves.
He did have something against the Wolf Scouts though, and the Assault Marines shot two, charged in (just reaching base-to-base...), killing the rest. I guess it didn´t help that I didn´t pass any of the 9 wounds...
I killed only two Assault Marine in return, by the way.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Space Wolves turn 4,
Still not ready to assault, I "shuffle" around a bit, both the surviving `Raiders are aiming at destroying his Rhinos while the Wolf Lord and pals are staying in cover behind their wrecked Land Raider and the Venerable Dreadnough is hiding behind a forest, ready to move out towards an objective.
Sadly, the shooting is catastrophic, even though I hit the Rhinos with everything and gets penetrating hits, none is destroyed..! They are shaken and one lose its storm bolter (wow! ), but that´s it...
The Wolf Lord´s Bodygaudr shoot at a Tactical Squad but kill none...
No assaults.

´nillas turn 4.
Finally, the shiny guys turn up.
For some reason he targets them behind my Venerable Dreadnought, to take it out with storm bolters..! :: And he is rewarded with a "Hit" so eight Grey Knights appaer just behind him (that´s the kinda moce I would never succed with!) and manages to shaken him.
The rest keeps pushing forward and plasma fire kills another Wolf Guard (just within range of it... ).

Space Wolves turn 5.
The Venerable Dreadnought turns around to assault the Grey Knights (S6 is nasty, especially with 17 attacks but I wanted to atleast hold them up).
The Grey Hunter´s Land Raider rolls forward 12" and the Hunters disembarks, just in front of a Tactical while the Wolf Lord and last Wolf Guard gives covering fire.
The Blood Claws still holds back though.
Fire from the Wolf Lord, Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters fails to kill a single Tactical but I charge in, and of another 29 attacks, 6 of them power fists, I kill one... His 7 Tacticals kills 3 Grey Hunters though (2 to the veteran sergeants´s power fist), and I fail the Morale Check (rolling 10) and they flee 9"....
That´s not good, not at all... The Grey Hunters were still within 6" of hi offending Tactical Squad, wouldn´t be able to Rally (unless he backed away... ) and he had a melta gun close to my Land Raider...
The Vennie charges the Grey Knights and with three attacks I kill one (-1 attack for being Shaken). They manages to glance me three times (!) but only shakes/stuns me, after the Hard to Kill re-rolls.

Wedgy Gits , turn 5.
After my rather crappy Grey Hunter attack my opponent now has the initiative so those Tacticals as well as the Command Squad advances onto a Loot counter on the left whilst they shoot down my last Wolf Guard Bodyguard, wounding the Wolf Lord and kills a few Grey Hunters, leaving 5 or so (ignoring the nearby Land Raider though ).
The other Tactical and Assault Marines stays hidden behind their Rhino, waiting for my Blood Claws to strike.
In the assault phace, I kill another Grey Knight with the Vennie whilst he is Immobilized (another 2 glancing hits!).
(By the way, the Whirlwind kept firing all game, hitting only a single Grey Hunter once, which it failed to wound...).
It didn´t look very good at this point...

Edited by Wolf Lord Duregar, 14 July 2005 - 05:59 PM.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Ok, final turn, with a little bit of luck I figured I could pull it off...
The Grey Hunters kept running though so I only had the Blood Claws, their Land Raider and the other Land Raider left to move (the Wolf Lord were out of assault range).
The Blood Claws and their Rhino attacks, zooming up 12" to attack a Tactical Squad (within a forest), I shoot their bolt pistols but they hardly hit the enemy...
Charging is another thing for them though, I kill about 4-5 Tacticals (the Wolf Guard Battle Leader hit twice with 6 attacks, hitting on 3s...) and lose 3 of the Blood Claws while the enemy holds, not great....
The other Land Raider shoots a few Tacticals on the other flank, leaving just two in that Squad but the Grey Hunter either misses or fails to wound with their bolt pistols, both plasmas ad melta gun while the Vennie fails to wound with his single attack that hit, my dice were really fudged up..!
Still, the Blood Claw Rhino held one Loot Counter.

´nillas, final turn.
He advances his remaining Assault Marines on my Blood Claws while the Command Squad grabs a Loot counter on the other flank.
With another set of catastrophic dice rolling, 18 normal Assault Marine attacks manages to kill no less than six (6!!!) Blood Claws while the veteran sergeant kills the Wolf Guard Battle leader (who didn´t manage to kill a single enemy!!!!), the last remaining Tacticals kills the rest but I manage to kill just so many Assault Marines so they aren´t scoring anymore... I was a little more than slightly irritated at this point...
The Vennie kills another Grey Knight and another goes down to the outnumbering thing (he didn´t take any damag this time by the way) and that leaves just 2 Grey Knights.
That´s it, it´s over.

He had his Command Squad holding one counter and my "Blood Claw Land Raider" held another, the last was uncontested.
Frankly, I was very lucky getting a draw with that extremely bad rolls (and he rolled pretty well )...
A fun game and it went about the way I guessed (I hadn´t counted on that bad dice rolls though). I will definetly try it again, maybe without the Wolf Guards and more Grey Hunters, but not for a while. I suspect there will be a million lascannons on the other side of the board next time, time for my Fenrisian Wolves heavy 13th Co. I think...

[barek]

Great batt. rep.! I'll study it meticiously tomorrow, when and if I'm sober again.
You did fine I think, BUT: did you bless your dice????

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

I hate my dice... They´ll get a blessing they´ll never forget, I´ll eat them so the next time they see the light of the day, it´s through my... hole.

It´s not uncommon, that I roll really, really bad, combined with that opponent rolling very, very good. Really annoying.
Especially when he is saved from bad situations because of luck (good from him, bad from me )...

Still, was pretty fun, but next time I´ll use the list with three `Raiders I first came up with, no Wolf Guards and some Speeders to run CAP and cheaper Wolf Scouts...

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Was thinking a bit, and I think this works better:

Wolf Lord w. bolt pistol, frag grenades, frost blade, wolf pelt. 100p

Wolf Guard Battle Leader w. lightning claws, frag grenades. 91p

Wolf Guard Battle Leader w. lightning claws, frag grenades wolf pelt. 94p

Wolf Scouts (5) w. 2 plasma pistols, 1 melta gun. 100p

2 Grey Hunter Packs (9) w. 2 power fists, 2 plasma pistols, 1 melta gun. 222p*2

1 Blood Claw Pack (9) w. 2 power fists, 1 flamer. 156p

3 Land Speeder Tornadoes w. assault cannons. 80p*3

3 Land Raiders with smoke launchers, extra armour. 258p*3

More numbers, Land Speeders to keep off nasty things from closing up on the ´Raiders and cheaper Wolf Scouts.
I´ll give it a try next time and report how it goes.

[rotwulf]

just to wonder, why not grab a wolf priest and give him a med kit. On a bike he could stay behind the land raiders and if one gets popped and the guys have to start walking he could ride over and join them. It might save a few termies on the walk up.

Also, why not replace one land raider with the good old LRE. Most people arn't used to seeing one and are a bit shocked when you roll 13 dice a turn with it. (yes i put the little gun on the mini turret...those two shots add up).

two land raiders would be a rather big threat and have good chances in the anti tank field since they can put out 2 tl lascannon blasts a round, meanwhile the russ is taking a bite out of infantry squads. Note the russ is also good at downing any skimmer, be it eldar, dark eldar, or fellow marine.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Hmm, I´m not a big fan of the Lema Russ Exterminator (-for Space Wolves)... It just doesn´t feel right with me...
It sure sounds cool though, but I don´t have an Exterminator and will probably not get one either.

Have to get back to my planning on having four Land Raiders in 2000p...

[malamut]

quote from rotwulf: just to wonder, why not grab a wolf priest and give him a med kit. On a bike he could stay behind the land raiders and if one gets popped and the guys have to start walking he could ride over and join them. It might save a few termies on the walk up.


a character on a bike can't join a pack that's in a transport or that's walking...

Edited by malamut, 15 July 2005 - 02:21 PM.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

As far as I know, he can join a Pack on foot, what am I missing..?

[rotwulf]

i thought that one on a bike could join up with a unit. Guys with jet packs can do it, so why can't a guy on a bike pull up and cruise with his wolves.

anyway, the LRE does what it is surposed to do. If you don't want to take it, cool, then i recomend a LRC. Someone has to bring a little anti-infantry to a game.

also, if i remember correctly...you can have 6 land raiders in a sw group...three wgbl /w retinues /w land raiders and then three taken as heavy support choises.