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The Castigators

Castigators Commissar Molotov

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#1051
Commissar Molotov

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Funny you say that, because the amazing Plokoone has messaged me to say that he's created a set of true-scale Castigator shoulder pads:

 

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Well, I suppose they could be used for Terminators if you really wanted...

 

Quite a few people over the years have insisted that the Castigators should be or have to be successors of Dorn. I've never understood the misplaced and oddly fashionable hatred for Roboute Guilliman or the Ultramarines. It's clear, when you look at chapters like the Mortifactors, that Astartes can be successors from the Ultramarines and yet be distinct and different. Although at certain stages of their development history I played up the Castigators' self-mutilatory practices and the Chapter don't use psykers, that doesn't have to make them red Templars. I've always found it a narrow view of the DIY creation process that successors need to mirror their progenitor legions - especially after multiple millennia of drift.

 

I also think there's scope for an Ultramarine successor to now come face to face with their forefather - to have to reconcile millennia of legend with the actions of the figure in front of them. There's definite narrative scope there. The idea of disappointing a parent or the like. 

 

The idea of a Chapter civil war is something that - used right - can work. I have always said, however, that a Chapter can have different viewpoints or factional philosophies without it needing to come to blows. I have colleagues I disagree with or actively dislike - but that doesn't mean I come to work with a flamethrower. A Captain like Caphius can sneer and look down at his fellow Captain, Anteas - but they are both united by their shared legacy and their duty to the Throne. I can see vociferous argument, glowering resentment - but not open conflict. I'm not intending for the Castigators to split or for disgruntled Captains to turn to Chaos or the like - but the idea of the purge is an interesting one. 

 

Some ideas and concepts will need to wait for a more concrete understanding of the Primaris conversion process - how long does it take? What are the effects? This, coupled with the question of how far along the Castigators are in any process, will have a bearing upon this. 


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QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#1052
Bloodwraith

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For me I just grew to hate the Guilliman character over the years especially established lore wise, and I never, even back in the RT days liked the UM's but have grown to hate them and a lot of it has to do with MW but in general its just a preference thing. I agree they dont have to be cookie cutter etc and can diverge greatly from their progenitor. And the castigators are a fantastic chapter, scheme, lore, icon etc...........just Guilliman makes my skin crawl...lol But seriously some kind of issue even perceived devolution of their Geneseed without a chaos corruption that leads to a need for a force transformation to Primaris or acceptance of a purge for the chapters sake/health.


Edited by Bloodwraith, 27 June 2017 - 10:07 AM.

-No plan survives contact with the enemy. (Lion El'Jonson, Primarch of the Dark Angels)

-Then you're not making the right plans. (Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists)

 

#1053
Commissar Molotov

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It's interesting that you've mentioned perceived degradation of gene-seed; one of the changes I've wanted to make to the Castigators for a while was broadening their recruitment base. I've always thought the fact that the Astartes recruit the best without allowing them to reproduce would actually harm the gene-pool over time; this is even more acute when you consider the Losancan population would be relatively small and at risk of genetic instability. It makes sense, therefore, that the Castigators would recruit from across the Dalthan Sector. It would provide them with a range of recruits and genetic diversity. It would also provide the Chapter with a variety of mindsets, making divides within the Chapter more believable. 

 

I still see the planet of Losanco itself as having potent symbolism for the Chapter - the idea of its colonists struggling against lesser, debased versions of themselves, standing defiant against their foes. Perhaps it plays an important role in recruitment rites for the Chapter - a way in which warriors from disparate backgrounds are bound together in blood.

 

Another of my big interests in the last year or so has been thinking about the Chapter's serfs - those upon whom the entire functioning of the Chapter rests. It's something I'd most definitely like to expand upon as the Castigators progress. 


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QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

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Commissar Molotov

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The Castigators have fallen victim to the Photobucket Purge of 2017! Which is as good an excuse as any to try to bring them up to scratch.

 

Here's the most recent version of the Index Astartes article, after moving all my image hosting to Imgur and making some touches in an effort to try to bring this up to a more modern standard. I've tried to reconcile some of the awkwardness along with removing some egregious references and comments that seem a little tacky now.

 

Chiefly:

 

- The Castigators no longer recruit from one single world; they are recruited from across several sectors, but Losanco is the glue that holds them together. All recruits spend some time on the planet amongst its people.

 

- I've removed some of the elements regarding the Chapter's self-mutilation and reverence of pain - it's a little too angsty for the Castigators now, and I think it draws too many parallels with the Emperor's Children and the Imperial Fists. Neither comparison really serves the chapter well.

 

- I've taken out references to Monodominant thinking - although I do see the Castigators as unflexible, judgmental and dour, I don't think I need to borrow from other Imperial institutions in order to make my points.

 

 

I'd love some feedback from people if they are so inclined; a fresh pair of eyes would be just what this needs!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Index Astartes: Castigators
"We are the Emperor's will made manifest!"

 

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Origins

P
art of the fourteenth founding of the Adeptus Astartes, the Castigators have earned a reputation as staunch and stalwart guardians of the Imperium in the millennia since their inception. The Adeptus Mechanicus birthed the nascent Chapter from the gene-legacy of Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, and it is said that a Martian dictate ensured that only the purest progenoid glands were used during their creation. If true, this is an arguably excessive measure considering the exemplary nature of Guilliman's gene-stock. Some fanciful tales further claim that the Genetor-Magi considered and then discarded many perfectly usable progenoid glands in their efforts to create the Castigators.

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Chapter Badge

 

The reasons for the drastic measures undertaken in the creation of this Chapter may well have their roots in the after-effects of the thirteenth Astartes founding: the so-called 'Dark Founding'. All records relating to this tumultuous event have long since been eradicated or lost within the labyrinthine bureaucracy of the Imperium, leaving behind only supposition and fevered assumption. Those few individuals aware of exactly what transpired during those dark days would seem unprepared to divulge their secrets. Whatever exactly occured, it is clear that the myopic focus upon genetic purity that characterised the founding of the Castigators has affected the Chapter deeply to this day.

The Chapter's first Master was a Black Consul by the name of Baraquiel. Known amongst his brothers as 'the Castigator' for his fervent desire to purge the enemies of the Emperor for their transgressions, he bestowed the same name upon his nascent Chapter, hoping to inspire the same righteous fury in its warriors.

During the Castigators' first centuries of service, the Chapter maintained an unceasing war against the enemies of the Throne. Baraquiel was a keen strategist, and he drove his newest warriors to their limits.  The world of Rihad witnessed the Castigators scuttling an Orkoid reaver-fleet, the patchwork vessels falling in flames only to be crushed by the gas giant's gravity. On Kessok, the Castigators swore binding oaths to defend its populace from the predations of the Fade-kind, creatures of shadow and smoke that dissipated only once Baraquiel's terminator elite put their Duskmothers to flame. At the head of the Swordpoint Crusades, the Castigators brought the light of the Imperium to a swathe of Imperial space. Moving from campaign to campaign, the Chapter fought to establish a legacy that would last the ages.

 

Homeworld

U
pon the height of their xenocidal campaigns against the alien Ryssith, an expeditionary fleet led by the Castigators entered a tumultuous and unstable region known to spacefarers as the 'Howling Stars'. An area of perennial eddies and whirls in the Immaterium, the Stars were a place where the skin of reality had been stretched to breaking point by unnatural forces. Roiling warp storms burst forth to destroy vessels whole and hamper travel still further, and only the most skilled of Navigators could reliably traverse the area. It was on the edges of this benighted expanse that the Castigators found the small and unassuming world labelled on the fleet's star-charts as Losanco Secundus.

The planet was perhaps most notable for its 'tidally locked' orbit, which resulted in one half of the planet being shrouded in perpetual darkness whilst the other basked in permanent light and debilitating radiation. It should never have sustained life - and yet it did. Drawn to the world by a flickering distress signal, the Castigators discovered that millennia ago, an Imperial vessel had crashed onto Losanco's surface. The descendants of the survivors clung the thin strip of land between the light and dark sides, an arid and inhospitable area of perpetual twilight. Their scattered settlements were fortified towns, built mainly from scrap metal recovered from the ruined hulk of their vessel. These established enclaves of human existence were defended by armed militias and sustained by the slowly degrading technologies.

 

The wastelands were also inhabited by bands of scavengers and reavers. Many were mutated as a result of the radiation - some almost beyond recognition. Highly aggressive, Losancan legends suggested to the inhabitants that one day the Emperor would appear, bringing light and tranquillity to its troubled people and transforming the planet into a verdant paradise. The legends continued that He would only appear when the planet was 'deserving' - which was taken to mean when it was freed from the blight of the 'impure'. The survivors had grown to blame the mutants for their predicament, learning to fear and hate with what had become an almost instinctual loathing for imperfection and disease. Babies showing even the most minor of malformations were hurriedly and quietly killed by their own mothers or families, such was the stigma of giving birth to a mutant offspring. This hatred of mutation extended beyond the physical form - those children that displayed burgeoning psychic abilities were executed in public ceremonies of devotion to the Emperor.

 

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Losancan Hunter

 

The plight of the Losancans was dramatic and precarious; they were caught between light and dark, between mutation and freezing doom. Such potent symbolism struck a chord in Baraquiel's soul. The dichotomy between light and dark and the survivors' struggle against corruption convinced him that they could serve as a potential source of future Castigators.  After settling on the periphery of the Howling Stars, the Castigators became responsible for the surrounding sectors of space, chief among them the Dalthus Sector, the Swordpoint Stars and the Taurelian Expanse. Apothecaries and Chaplains of the Castigators have recruited aspirants for the Chapter from across several sectors in order to ensure that the Chapter recruits the strongest, most genetically suitable candidates. 

 

The Chapter's fortress, known as Sanctuary, is buried deep within Losanco Secundus's rocky moon. Hanging heavy within the skys, its pitted surface is studded with arched gunports, the squat shapes of lance-batteries and other defences. Those newly recruited into the Chapter are brought here and are inducted into a legacy of war; surrounded by campaign banners, the armour and accoutrements of long-dead heroes and the spoils of war, neophytes will undergo gruelling biological and genetic testing before being implanted with the gene-seed that will sustain them through a lifetime of combat.

 

All brothers of the Chapter, whatever their origin, return to the surface of Losanco Secundus. Bringing with them weaponry and basic equipment, they will join the militias that defend the settlements and scour the wastelands. Sand-scarred, hard-bitten, these warriors lead their parties with a steady hand and a commanding voice that rises above the harsh winds of the endless desert. Some are survivors of mutant raids or destroyed settlements; others simply serve from a sense that something must be done to protect their lives. The aspirants are expected to interact with the populace, to inspire them - and to learn of the pernicious danger posed by the impure. For many, it is a humbling experience - that these ordinary men and women endure through faith and determination. It is an experience that they will carry throughout their lives.

 

 

As the aspirants fight alongside their mortal counterparts, they will be observed from afar by the Chaplains of the Chapter, looking for any sign of weakness or unsuitability. Those that cannot endure hardship, that cannot thrive amidst despair, will never return to the Sanctuary and join the ranks of the Chapter. 

 

 

Chapter Cult and Belief System

R
ecruits to the Chapter are strong-willed, used to hardship and driven by a heartfelt desire to root out deviance and impurity. The Chapter's rituals and cults foster this intolerance, seeing it as a virtue. Those that endanger the Imperium should be exterminated - mutants, aliens, psykers and religious deviants are all to be called to account for their activities. The only punishment for those who stray from the Emperor's path is death. The Chaos powers are abhorred by the chapter, despised for their warping touch. Those that have allowed themselves to submit to temptation and fall to Chaos are especially hated by the Castigators. As far as they are concerned, it is unthinkable to allow oneself to stray from the Emperor's path and into the worship of the Dark Gods. Those that submit to the dark powers are weak and must be killed before their heresy can corrupt others. The Castigators are known to have participated in several protracted engagements against Chaos Space Marines, including the so-called 'Harvesters' chapter and the Word Bearers legion, for whom the Castigators harbour a special hatred.

 

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Chaplain Renatus

 

 

It has been noted by Imperial observers that the Castigators grudgingly tolerate both the Astropaths and those of the Navigator Gene. This has led some to criticise the Castigators' belief system as hypocritical. The Castigators roundly refute such allegations, arguing that both institutions were created and sanctioned by the Emperor - just as the Adeptus Astartes were. Whilst some have called the Castigators overly aggressive, narrow-minded, or bigoted, none can deny the fervour with which they go about their tasks. The Castigators have influential allies that allow them to continue unmolested; some traditional and puritan Inquisitors have gone so far as to openly applaud the Castigators, seeing their actions as those of the truly faithful. The Chapter has worked in concert with puritan elements of the Inquisition on several occasions throughout its history, assisting in the prosecution of heretics and the faithless. 

 

In memory of their auspicious founding, every fourteen years those companies not currently engaged in battle meet at the Sanctuary. Battle-brothers, comrades and friends are allowed to meet and honour their success together. Great trophies are brought back to the fortress monastery and relics are paraded in front of the assembled marines. Each and every dreadnought in the chapter is awoken and great prayer services are held to honour the fallen, to remember the great moments of the chapter's history and to reaffirm oaths of loyalty, piety and faith. Captured banners are paraded, the heads of defeated foes exhibited and the manner of their capture and defeat recalled with grim detail. The ceremonies last for fourteen days and then the chapter disperses once more to where they are needed to continue the protection of the Imperium of Man. Neophytes inducted into the chapter during this two-week period are seen as blessed and are usually predicted to become great warriors.
 

Before each battle, the force gathers together in prayer to affirm their faith. The higher ranks of the chapter - especially Captains and Chaplains - are known as skilled orators and they put these skills to good use, rousing a righteous fury in the hearts and minds of those beneath them. When the chapter fights, it is sustained by a deeply-held belief that they are the guardians of humanity. It is their divine duty to defend the Emperor's flock, and they will not accept failure in what they consider to be the holiest of all endeavours.

 

Battlefield Doctrine

I
n no small part due to the legacy of the Black Consuls, the Castigators have adhered closely to the tenets of Roboute Guilliman's Codex Astartes throughout their history. War is the reason for the Chapter's existence, and the Castigators seek to prepare for it well. 

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Ancient Rhetoricus, Bearer of the Crimson Standard


As Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, practical issues dictate the Castigators' tactical orthodoxy to a degree. The limited numbers of the Chapter ensure that they are not used as a blunt instrument like the numberless masses of the Imperial Guard. The Castigators could be considered a predominantly attacking force, mounting and executing rapid, overwhelming assaults that ensure the Space Marines always maintain the initiative. Indeed, the Commanders of the Chapter would accept a traditional battle only on the most favourable of terms, or if necessity dictated. Drop-podding troops and thunderhawk-deployed vehicles can rapidly assault the enemy. Tactical and Devastator squads can suppress the enemy with skilled gunfire before the Chapter's Assault Marines descend upon them. Faced with such decisive force, the enemy simply cannot resist.

When called upon to defend ground, the Castigators raise icons of faith and sacred standards high before planting them into the ground, vowing to make the enemy pay a heavy price for each step taken. They will grimly fight to the last whilst inflicting as much damage as possible upon enemy forces, asking no quarter and giving none. The Castigators are ferocious warriors, known on occasion to fight to the last man rather than admit defeat. Battles against the chapter are always bloody and hard-fought, simply because the Castigators refuse to retreat unless their commanders order such. As part of their defensive strategy, the Castigators will attempt to disrupt their attackers. Assault forces undertaking skillfully-executed raids can cause huge amounts of damage before rapidly disengaging. Scouts can sabotage enemy materiel or assassinate prominent leaders, even going so far as to teleport the Chapter's Terminators into an enemy camp to brutally decapitate them.

Because of the chapter's unflinching bravery, even the Collegiate Strategos has paid tribute to the Castigators, its annals acknowledging them as one of the finest examples of the Imperial maxim 'death before dishonour'. The Castigators are determined, stubborn warriors, determined to struggle to victory whatever the cost. Whilst some have criticised the Castigators for their tactics, the Chapter has - thus far successfully - refuted these statements, claiming that rather than single-mindedly fighting their way into certain death, they judge their fights well to ensure that the enemy is eradicated. To the Castigators, a wasteful death is pointless, but a justified death is the greatest honour.

Chapter Organisation
T
he Castigators' adherence to the Codex Astartes has led to the Chapter adopting a conventional ten-Company structure. The first consists of the Chapter's veterans, the most skilled warriors who have received additional training, particularly in the use of Terminator armour. The Chapter possesses only twenty-one venerated suits of Terminator Armour, and these are worn by the greatest warriors in the chapter. When not in use they occupy positions of honour in the First Company's Chapel of Heroes. Should a Terminator fall, the techmarines will painstakingly repair the armour so that it may see battle again. The first company typically disperses to fight alongside the battle-companies, allowing the more experienced warriors to impart their wisdom to their brethren.

The second, third, fourth and fifth companies are the battle-companies, each with a mixture of tactical, devastator and assault squads. With such a variety of squads, the Battle Companies are highly flexible and tactically adaptable. Indeed, a typical force deployed by the Castigators will be centred around a Battle-Company, with attached elements from other Companies.

The sixth and seventh companies are tactical reserve companies; the eighth and ninth are assault and devastator reserve companies, respectively. The Reserve Companies often fight support of their brethren in the Battle-Companies, reinforcing battle lines, launching diversionary attacks or countering enemy assaults. In addition, the Marines of the Reserve Company can be transferred into the Battle-Companies to replace casualties sustained. The Castigators' tenth company, the scout company, is small when compared to other chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, mainly due to the chapter's extremely thorough recruitment processes. Much like the first company, the scouts almost never fight as one force. Instead they are assigned to the battle companies where they can gain experience alongside their elders.

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Brother Jonas


Librarians
The newly-created Castigators chapter had a number of Librarians, drawn from the Black Consuls. During their initial ten-year crusade, the Castigators also recruited a number of psychically-gifted initiates from the worlds they fought upon. As the original Librarians died out, and the Castigators continued to recruit from a world where the pyschic population was eradicated, the chapter began to absorb the Losancan belief system. They could no longer countenance 'witches' sullying the chapter's name, and as such the responsibility of keeping a record of the chapter's history was given to ordinary brother-marines who adopted the role of 'Librarian'. Now each of the Castigators' brother-marines will undertake a period of service in the chapter's Librarium once every decade, working to duplicate ancient texts and to pass on the stories of the Castigators' past. These 'Librarians' accompany Company Captains, recording the chapter's history, recounting tales of battles fought throughout the millennia, and learning lessons from the actions of others. This allows every battle-brother to be intimately familiar with the chapter's history of warfare.

Techmarines
Like the majority of Space Marine chapters, the Castigators honour ancient pacts with the Adeptus Mechanicus that stretch back millennia to their very founding. Those amongst the Castigators with an affinity for technology are dispatched to Mars, where they are initiated into the Martian tech-cults. This is acknowledged as a necessary process - without the techmarines, the Adeptus Astartes would be left unable to tend to the machine spirits, to observe the rites that ensure continued operation of their wargear, or to repair damage taken on the field of battle. But the process comes at a lamentable price - the loss of battle-brothers to the worship of the Omnissiah. The techmarines are mysterious and capricious, aloof and distant. Their inscrutable ways are not easily understood by most of the battle-brethren. Indeed, some of the more zealous factions among the chapter distrust the techmarines. To them, the worship of the Omnissiah is at best dangerous, and at worst heretical. It is a duty of the Chapter Master to ensure that these ideological tensions are defused and that no blood is spilt. It is said that some of the Castigators' techmarines struggle their entire lives to resolve the differences between their chapter's creed and the dictates of the Liber Mechanicus.


Gene-seed

Y
ears uncounted of rigorous gene-screening practices have inculcated an obsession for genetic purity within the Castigators. Having descended from the Black Consuls, the Brothers of the Chapter take pride in the fact that they can trace their genetic lineage back to Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines. The Ultramarines themselves are renowned for possessing the purest of all loyalist legions' gene-seeds, and that purity has been inherited by their successors.

The Castigators' Apothecaries demand absolute and total excellence in maintaining that purity. The Apothecarion ensures that only the strongest and healthiest of recruits are selected to become marines. The trials for neophytes are particularly stringent, and the Apothecaries take great care to ensure that the gene-seed does not develop flaws or mutate in any way. Any neophytes that exhibit signs of mutation are dissected as subjects of study in an attempt to determine what went wrong. Progenoid glands extracted from dead marines may not be implanted if there is any suggestion that they may be tainted.

This unyielding thoroughness means that the Castigators replace losses at a slower rate than in most marine chapters. As the forty-first millennium draws to a close, there have been few occasions when the Castigators have been at full chapter strength. The Castigators contend, however, that their rigidly maintained purity makes them more than a match for their foes.

 

 


Edited by Commissar Molotov, 05 July 2017 - 12:50 AM.

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QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#1055
Bloodwraith

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While I see you points for removing a few things you did/de-emphasizing them, I always thought the self mutilation was a good "character point" for depth. It never had to be a major plot point or overly significant but it definitely added character to them, its one of the small things the drew me into the original IA. But I do see how it can covertake other more important aspects of the IA and draw people to want to align them in their mind with the IF's.


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-Then you're not making the right plans. (Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists)

 

#1056
Lysimachus

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I like the change to Sector wide recruitment very much, it makes sense logistically and also goes some way to explaining the differences of ethos among some of the Chapter members, such as the two Captains (apologies, I can't remember what they were called!).

 

 

In the final two paragraphs of the Homeworld section it suggests to me that implantation occurs before they're returned (or sent) to the surface?

If being there is part of the testing of their worthiness, wouldn't it make more sense for non-Losancan recruits to be gathered (perhaps somewhat younger) and taken to the surface first, thereby testing them before they're given the precious/sacred Gene-seed?


Edited by Lysimachus, 06 July 2017 - 02:45 PM.


#1057
Commissar Molotov

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Bloodwraith: Thanks for the comment. Perhaps this speaks to the limitations of the Index Astartes article - where you're trying to convey the overview of the Chapter without going overboard with so much detail that it'll put people off. 

 

Are there Castigators that perhaps engage in what we might consider self-mutilatory practices? Yes, though I don't want to make it seem like that's something every brother of the Chapter does. We've before talked about 'moderates' and 'zealots' in the Chapter, and it's something that a particularly fervent Castigator might do. But I did want to phrase it in a way that didn't make it sound like it was written by an angsty teenager (which, to be fair, twelve years ago it probably was...) 

 

Lysimachus: Thanks for the comment. I think that recruiting sector-wide simply makes a lot more sense for the Castigators, so they are able to collect the genetically purest candidates possible. But I was wary of distancing the Chapter too much from Losanco, as the mutant-hating (and psyker-hating) is supposed to stem from there. Hence why I thought the aspirants would spend time on the world amongst its people. I did mean to suggest that they spend time on the planet and then receive gene-seed. As you mention, otherwise it could potentially be wasteful and result in lost gene-seed (or, worse, gene-seed being implanted in those who are 'unworthy' to receive it...) 

 

With the two Captains, you mean Caphius (the zealot) and Anteas (the moderate, and 'my' Captain.) I've been giving thought to the idea that Caphius might be a recruit from Losanco itself, whilst Anteas is a recruit offered up from the progeny of Chapter serfs - a source of much pride to his parents, but perhaps that Caphius might look down at him somewhat. 


 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#1058
Marshal Rohr

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There isn't really a way to introduce chapter sub-cultures like autoflagellation in a traditional Index Astartes format, but additional addenda could be a cool way to introduce topics beyond the capacity of the source document. For instance a full, 8th Edition updated summary of the chapter could introduce the commanders and personalities of the chapter without overloading the IA.
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#1059
Commissar Molotov

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Exactly my thoughts - which is why I'd like to create an Imperial Armour style PDF for the Castigators, which goes into much further depth on the Castigators. The Index Astartes article is just to provide a characterful overview of the Chapter - do the changes I've made convey the Castigators' character? 


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QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#1060
Commissar Molotov

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Heru Talon, in times gone past, was quite the thorn in my side. We clashed extensively in threads of old and yet his incisiveness was a boon in my thought process. His recent thread, 'How far has the Liber fallen?' has struck quite the chord with me. Our DIY creations are a reflection of ourselves; I have grown and changed just as the Castigators themselves have - just as the 40k universe has, and just as the attitudes of the 40k community towards DIY creations have. Change is inevitable, and yet it breeds a pervasive melancholy. There are many figures within the 40k forum universe that have contributed to the Castigators, many of whom are no longer around here. Luminaries such as Aurelius Rex, SCC, Ferrata, Octavulg; comrades such as Ferrus Manus, Tyrannicide, Marshal Rohr; Vocates Brethren in the form of Toyship, Darrell, Barrett, Nine_Breaker, Sigismund Himself, KingHongKong...

 

As the Dark Millennium draws in, I can't shake the idea that the Castigators have had to encircle their dominions, the worlds around the Howling Stars - that they are alone and under siege. Their oathbound brethren in Chapters such as the Judicators and the Thousand Swords have not been heard from in decades; the forces of the Castigators are divided and the febrile scratching of half-heard laughter can almost be discerned among the static of unanswered astropathic communiques. 

 

I've managed to finally order a copy of the 8th Edition Astartes Codex, which will allow me to get a better handle on the Castigators in the wake of the Indomitus Crusade and the introduction of the Primaris Astartes. I recently read an interesting post by Aaron Dembski-Bowden (in this thread: )

 

And to add a little more, 8th Edition is set like... a century or something after the Great Rift showed up. To the fandom, yep, Primaris are the new hotness and how they integrate with their Chapters is very relevant and important. But in the setting, after a hundred years, they're just Space Marines now. The Sentinels of the Veil (well, the 2 out of 3 Chapters that are still kicking to some degree) have been able to make Primaris Marines for a hundred years, give or take. Or at least several decades. The differences between the two strains of Marine is, by that point, basically minimal. 

 

Most people in the Imperium - even huge swathes of many Chapters' memberships - won't have been alive in a time before Primaris Marines. They just see Primaris as Space Marines now.

 

I think this raises the interesting question of what I do with the Castigators and Primaris - how far along the integration process that my work finds the Chapter. I'm hoping that when I have the Codex in hand, I can start to make some notes about what is the best way forward here! 


 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#1061
Commissar Molotov

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Earlier this week I received my copy of Codex: Space Marines. Despite not playing 40k for quite a long time, the Space Marine Codex is the book I'm guaranteed to pick up in every edition to ensure I'm kept abreast of the latest fluff developments. I have to say that this time, I'm a little disappointed. If you're new to 40k, or simply looking for rules to get playing in the 8th Edition, it's great. But I was looking for more information on the Primaris Marines, and how they're incorporated into the Space Marine Chapters.

 

The first key thing - there is no mention anywhere in the Codex that fully-grown Space Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. The text on the page even seems to suggest against it. That does mean that Space Marine Chapters are going to have a two-tier system, where normal Astartes and their Primaris brethren have almost a caste system. There's a few mentions that the Primaris might not be as experienced as their fellows, and no indication of Primaris veterans (they can be Captains, Lieutenants, Apothecaries, Chaplains, Ancients - but not Sternguard or Vanguard?) 

 

The other mention in the Codex is that Roboute Guilliman has begun to make changes to the Codex Astartes since his return to the Imperium. There are statements such as: 

 

"Since his return, Roboute Guilliman himself has begun amending the Codex, continually striving to update and refine its hallowed tenets to better adapt to the changing landscape of war." 
 
"New guidelines in Guilliman's updated Codex Astartes provide for up to twenty squads of five battle-brothers. Furthermore, recent precepts allow for each Battle Company to be reinforced with auxiliary warriors. These additional squads are reassigned from the Reserve Companies." 
 
"The newly rewritten Codex Astartes allows for each Battle Company to be reinforced with additional troops reassigned from the Reserve Companies. These seconded battle-brothers typically form squads XI upwards. Once attached to a Battle Company, it is standard practice for the newly joined reserve csquads to take new markings corresponding to their new company."
 
"Implemented in the Codex by Roboute Guilliman upon his return, Lieutenants act as the right hands of their Captains... In most Chapters, command of each Demi-Company falls to a Lieutenant." 
 
 
I'm at a little bit of a loss. My feeling is that the Castigators would embrace the Primaris Marine once it has been proven to be closer to the Emperor's designs. They would certainly be among the first Chapters to swear loyalty to Roboute Guilliman, although who knows what he would make of them. 
 
In my head I thought about a couple of different scenarios. I originally thought that the Primaris complement assigned to the Castigators might form a series of auxiliary companies (Companies 11-14.) I imagined that Belisarius Cawl would have assigned ~400 Primaris to the Chapter. In my head I imagined a leader character who might hail from that earlier era who would be a leader of the Primaris. 
 
I've also considered that the prior antipathy between Caphius and Anteas could perhaps work better if Caphius (in his 'old guard' persona) is fighting a losing battle against Primaris Marines joining his Company. He feels the pain of obsolescence deeply. Anteas could be a Primaris Captain, though this would mess up timelines. Alternately, I could keep things as they are, and Caphius and Anteas might have some odd kinship in the face of these new interlopers. 
 
Equally, I thought it might be interesting if the new reinforcements included any Librarian(s) - assigned to the Chapter by Guilliman, it would be hard for them to refuse, though it would deepen a divide between the non-Primaris Castigators, who would seem somewhat backward to the Primaris. 
 
Some of this depends on how deeply the Castigators are depleted in the wake of the Cicatrix Maledictum and the Indomitus Crusade, however.  

 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#1062
Minigiant

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The first key thing - there is no mention anywhere in the Codex that fully-grown Space Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. The text on the page even seems to suggest against it. That does mean that Space Marine Chapters are going to have a two-tier system, where normal Astartes and their Primaris brethren have almost a caste system. There's a few mentions that the Primaris might not be as experienced as their fellows, and no indication of Primaris veterans (they can be Captains, Lieutenants, Apothecaries, Chaplains, Ancients - but not Sternguard or Vanguard?)

 

Unfortunately 'upgrading' marines was revealed as a gaff from an interview

 

 

I'm at a little bit of a loss. My feeling is that the Castigators would embrace the Primaris Marine once it has been proven to be closer to the Emperor's designs. They would certainly be among the first Chapters to swear loyalty to Roboute Guilliman, although who knows what he would make of them.

 

You are not alone, I think most people are. I am with you on the thoughts of 'who knows that he would make of them'



#1063
Heru

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The Primaris fluff has put me at a loss as well, it's basically put what we know about Chapters on its head but not really given us all that much detail as to how. Probably the biggest reason for me to focus on my traitors (who aren't organistionly affected) and leave my loyalists to the side for the time being. 😕
My Chapters (Blue) & Traitors (Red):
gallery_20677_1567_12051.jpg
1st Row: Falcon Knights, Darkwatch, Silver Scorpions, Phantom Hounds, Onyx Warlords, Wicked Gods, Wolves of Horus, The Blight, The Bloodborn
2nd Row: Iron Raptors, Immortals, Imperial Monarchs, Starbreakers, The Shadow Kings, The Fallen Lords, Black Wasps, Black Oracles, Dream Eaters

#1064
Conn Eremon

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The first key thing - there is no mention anywhere in the Codex that fully-grown Space Marines can be 'upgraded' into Primaris. The text on the page even seems to suggest against it. That does mean that Space Marine Chapters are going to have a two-tier system, where normal Astartes and their Primaris brethren have almost a caste system. There's a few mentions that the Primaris might not be as experienced as their fellows, and no indication of Primaris veterans (they can be Captains, Lieutenants, Apothecaries, Chaplains, Ancients - but not Sternguard or Vanguard?) 

 

Correct. There was a Facebook pre-release video that said otherwise, but it's looking like that person was in error.

 

A Primaris Space Marine is made the same way a regular Space Marine is. There are three new organ gene-seeds that make the primaris what they are. The Sinew Coils (metallic coil-cables reinforce sinews) and Magnificat (half the Primarch organ) are now the 2nd phase of implantation. The Belisarian Furnace (rapid regrowth and stimulation) is after what was the 9th, as the 9th stage included the Oolitic Kidney, a regular Space Marine purifying circulatory system that allows the initiate to survive the deadly chemicals of the primaris organ. There are now 15 steps all told, implanting 22 organs.

 

It'd be like continuing with an incomplete implantation, like implanting an occulobe into a centuries-old Captain.


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#1065
curvacious

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I've also considered that the prior antipathy between Caphius and Anteas could perhaps work better if Caphius (in his 'old guard' persona) is fighting a losing battle against Primaris Marines joining his Company. He feels the pain of obsolescence deeply. Anteas could be a Primaris Captain, though this would mess up timelines. Alternately, I could keep things as they are, and Caphius and Anteas might have some odd kinship in the face of these new interlopers.

Equally, I thought it might be interesting if the new reinforcements included any Librarian(s) - assigned to the Chapter by Guilliman, it would be hard for them to refuse, though it would deepen a divide between the non-Primaris Castigators, who would seem somewhat backward to the Primaris.


I think it would be nice if Caphius were a conventional marine and "Anteas" were primaris, but that they just didn't like each other, with nothing to do with primaries marines. It breaks the wall in a bad way, this OOC knowledge that primaris are a contentious thing. Caphius and Anteas, whether primaris or not, can both be indifferent or enthusiastic about primaris marines, and still not like each other. That makes the story about the two of them, which is way better, and unique to you, than being about how GW made new kits.

#1066
Lysimachus

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I think I might be inclined to leave the characters and their personal timelines as-is, but perhaps take their story on into the newer fluff. Maybe Caphius has been dead for some time, killed in some glorious last stand (after all in 40k everybody dies eventually). Anteas is still around but he's become one of the old guard, no longer quite as liberal as he would like to think himself. Maybe he looks around at the Primaris, or psykers wearing Chapter colours and he even wonders if the grumpy old man actually had a valid point...?
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