32 replies to this topic

[SCC]

Paullian Blantar has won the poll and is to be the character developed by the IA forum for the Iron Hands Chapter. We're going to cheat a little and take 2 paths with this - first we'll equip him with wargear and the like as per C:SM and the IH traits. This will allow anyone to field the B&C version Paullian Blantar in any game they play.

The second thing we'll do is create a special rule, or rules, for friendly games and to submit to GW along with the wargear selections and fluff we'll write up for Blantar.

So, in this thread I want you guys to select wargear, weapons and if you think appropriate, a retinue of some kind for him. You can propose items from any or all of the categories as you see fit, you don't need to propose items for all 3.

Remember, these selections must come straight outta C:SM using the IH traits, no special rules...yet...

Once we have a number of suggestions I"ll whip up another poll and let you guys vote for the final wargear/weapons selection.

[Hellstrike]

Well, I'll start things off. Heres what I see as a standard character choice. Note this is pretty much C&P from the rules I posted in the last thread. I'll save the special rules and retinue options for the next one. SCC seems to already like them so I'll just probobly leave them as is.

=====================================================
Paullian Blantar - Iron Father of ___________ Clan

Points Cost: ___________
(note this is for Paullian Blantar only, not the squad you chose to field him with. See below.)

Paullian Blantar is a special character that may be fielded in an Iron Hand army. He is equiped as listed below and may not be given addition equipment outside of his listed options below.

Stat Line:
- Iron Father, as Tech Marine upgrade listed in the Head the Wisdom of the Ancients trait in Codex: Space Marines. Note that Paullian may be chosen to be equiped with a Servo Harness or with a standard servo arm for the standard points cost.

Equipment:
- As Techmarine, Paullian is armed with a ,master crafted Power axe, signum, bolt pistol, Mechanicus Protectiva (use as Iron Halo), Bionic, and auspex. Note that Paullian may be equipped with a servo harness at the points listed in Codex: Space Marines.

=====================================================

now I'm iffy as to give him artificer armor straight off the bat, as he does get it if chosen with a servo harness. I think this would just be wasted points on the servo harness upgrade if he has artificer armor already. Anyway, theres my start off.

[Grimdarkness]

Paullian Blanter Ven Dread

Twin linked lascannon DCCW extra armour power of the machine spirit(if it can be taken by a dread) smoke launchers

as a special charecter i think a honor or body gaurd whould be a good thing.

my two cent's

Oops that what i get for looking with my eyes closed so his alive and well then a like the other ideas i've read here but can you truly do a iron fathere justice as he is not only a techmarine but a chaplin and apothecarie.

My four cent's now

Grimm

Edited by Grimdarkness, 28 July 2005 - 12:48 AM.

[Ferrata]

Paullian Blanter Ven Dread

Twin linked lascannon DCCW extra armour power of the machine spirit(if it can be taken by a dread) smoke launchers

I think it was decided that he was still alive/not in a dread. Thats what the poll was for.

Ferrata

[Brother Vidius]

I was thinking along the lines of Master crafted powerfist,combi plasma,terminator armour,Auspex,Bionics.But if he was in power armour

Power axe,bolter-plasma,bionics,auspex,melta bombs,terminator honours and a servo arm,may be upgraded to a full servo-harness at the points cost for a techmarine.

[my_name_is_tudor]

Right, I think it depends if he is an Iron Father or not (I must admit to being pretty ignorant of his fluff). If he is then it has to be the statline etc of the Techmarine commander, otherwise the Master.

Wargear.. erm, Mastercrafted powerfist sounds good, combi plasma I agree with, perhaps taken with the deathwatch upgrade to represent some sort of special ammo? Artificer armour I think is a must, iron halo, bionics obviously, auspex, terminator honours.

For the none-codex one, I'd do a blend of iron father and master, stat wise, with the full servo harness (or at least a servo arm) signum and auspex, perhaps some sort of faith in the machine rule if he is an IronFather - the squad he is with gets to re-roll misses in the shooting phase?

[Pyriel]

Now the two mentioned things:
Have him follow codex rules as close as possible
and
Make his retinue a veteran all-bionics-wearing marines one is not following codex rules, mearly twisting them so that one part may be fit into another one.

So how much can/are we allowed to "twist" the rules in making this guy?

[Hellstrike]

the only thing I have against giving him a power fist or a bolter/plasma, is the fact with a servo harness he already has 2 powerfists and a twinlinked plasma pistol. Iron Fathers mix a chaplain and a techmarine together to create a new character type

Considering most people use a chappy to lead an assualt, I assume that most would use a Iron Father in much the same way. Granted he has more options to be a shooty HQ with servitors and all, but think of it. Servo harness has a twinlinked plasma pistol, short range. a flamer, short range, and 2 powerfist attacks, closecombat (which could be really short range )

Leaving him with a power axe and a bolt pistol means he gets the maximum number of power weapon attacks on the charge. Give him frags and termie honors to boost this. Servo harness includes artificer armor, so with the iron halo hes gunna hang around a while, and the 2 power fists attacks can take care of any marauding vehicles or stout characters. If we do any profile tweeking later on this means that he'll be all that much better in combat.

His options to be a shooty HQ with all the standard servitor options for Heavy Bolters, Multimeltas and the occasional plasma cannon make up for shooty options. Then giving him a combi-weapon or storm bolter would make more sense if his purpose is to stand back and direct covering fire. That fits more in his techmarine side than his chappy side.

I guess I'll have to re-read the fluff on Paullian Blantar to see what kind of leader it lists him as. I guess the real question right now is what role do we want this character to play.

Leading assualts in the name of the machine god and emperor?

Standing back and directing withering superior firepower over the battle field with a cold calculating grace?

Or do we want to try to conglomerate something inbetween, making him a jack of all trades and not really excelling at anything. (Can be done with a standard character, so why make a special character for it?)

Just a couple ideas for everyone

[Brother Vidius]

I see your point but nearly every Iron Father has a power axe and is a bit boring.

[Hellstrike]

fair enough, I can agree with that, it is pretty standard. Power Axe and Servo arm....

But, by the same token though, every chaplian has a crozious, rosarious and skull helm, every librarian has a psychic hood and a force weapon. Makes them both kinda boring but people still take them. Theres only so many options we have to chose from unfortunatly.

It does create a more run of the mill choice, nothing really special. Maybe depending on how it is modled will help out, but we'll have to get to that point (thats how most people create interest in their chappy. By cool new crozious or their moddified skull helm).


However this first run is to create the character as something that anyone can pick up and play with options straight out of the Codex. Once we determine how to represent him with the base options the codex, then we get to tweek some special rules and make him more interesting and characterful.

[Ferrata]

My take -

Paullian Blantar
Stats - Techmarine with Scion of Mars upgrade

Weapons -
Axe of [insert fluff name]
Arcane Axe which can be wielded either one handed or two handed. While wielded two handed, the teeth rotate at an extreme speed making wounds more likely, but one handed it lacks the power but has increased speed
2-handed - Reroll failed to wound, ignore armour saves
1-handed - ignore armour saves, +2 attacks


Mechanicus Protectiva
Iron Halo

Bionics, Frag Grenades, Artificer Armour

May take a Servo Harness for +15pts

Thats about it. All this may seem non-codex, but if you look at it closely it all is

He would be rather expensive though - 186pts :: But I'm not bothered, I dont play Iron Hands so wont use him

Ferrata

[bannus]

Well, first we need to hash out his rules within the confines of the Codex rules before we start to develop his 'special' rules.

First of all Paullian Blantar was an Iron-Father of the Iron Hands...specifically Clan Kaargul.

Given this, he will have characteristics similar to a Techarine (the HQ Techmarine would work the best in this case) and be equipped like a Techmarine.

So he would have a power-axe and servo-arm (if not a harness) - these are as much a symbol as they are practical wargear for an Iron-Father. So these have to be on the list. As far as a bolter...boltpistol...plasma pistol...etc. That can vary.

An Iron Halo (to represent the Mechanicus Protectiva) is also very fluffy. Since he was exceptionally gifted in the area of bionics, they would also be appropriate.

Artificer armour? Maybe. He was a great hero to the Iron Hands, so it could be justified.

So what do we need? (meaning, these things line up with what we know from his fluff that he should have)

1) HQ Techmarine

2) Power axe

3) Servo-arm (or harness)

4) Iron halo

5) Bionics.



So what could we add? (meaning that there is nothing known from his fluff concerning these items and would be speculative embellishments on our part)

1) Servo-harness

2) Terminator Honors

3) Artificer armour (if no harness)

4) Bolter, bolt pistol, plasma pistol, combi-weapon, etc.

5) frag, krak and/or melta grenades/bombs

6) A bodyguard of Servitors


The list is not comprehensive and his wargear should not be exhaustive (what special character's is?). Also, I'm uncertain about the servo-harness being made an "option". For most characters, their wargear is fixed and cannot be altered in any way...with the exception of Marneus Calgar (of course).

So we may want to decide to "fix" his wargear and decide if he would have a servo-harness or not.

[Ferrata]

Well, first we need to hash out his rules within the confines of the Codex rules before we start to develop his 'special' rules.

All of mine where, well maybe a little fudging

2-handed - Reroll failed to wound, ignore armour saves
1-handed - ignore armour saves, +2 attacks

Read as - Single Lighting Claw and Power Weapon and Termie Honours

Its a little bit out of codex, but not much. Only saying that the Claw counts as a CCW when not being used so confers +1 attack, but honours only work with the power weapon.

May take a Servo Harness for +15pts

Read as - Cost for Servo Harness minus Arti Armour (because he already has it)

Ferrata

[bannus]

.... first we'll equip him with wargear and the like as per C:SM and the IH traits. This will allow anyone to field the B&C version Paullian Blantar in any game they play.


.... no special rules...yet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was just following what SCC had directed.

[SCC]

As bannus has said, let's focus on the straight outta the Codex Paullian Blantar first up folks Once the Codex Blantar is settled we can move on to the non-'dex Blantar in a new thread...

So what do we need? (meaning, these things line up with what we know from his fluff that he should have)

1) HQ Techmarine

2) Power axe

3) Servo-arm (or harness)

4) Iron halo

5) Bionics.

I'd also agree with bannus' conclusions in respect to Blantar's wargear, the things he's listed are pretty much must haves, it's hard to see any IF without them.

So working from there what other wargear/retinue/weapons would folks like to see him carry?

[Ferrata]

Yeah, sorry about my ideas. When I fisrt wrote them, it didnt click that the Lighting claw wasnt a ccw

I would suggest doing everything from codex, but maybe renaming them differently and doing combo's to get what seems like something special, but's really just several options.

Maybe give him a powerfist, but dont model it. Saying he's using his axe 2 handed for extra strength, but he's slower so goes last. Seems special, but isnt

Ferrata

[Pyriel]

5) Bionics.

For some real IH character make the bionic special.
If armoursavable wound goes through roll a dice and on 5+ it hit some of the many bionics and was ignored...rather then on 6+.

What about that?
Is there a better way to represent more machine then man?
(maybe it was already mentioned but I'm tired today and didn't read the whole threads)

[Archangelus]

I think that the possibilityof Servo-harness upgrade should cost more than the Techmarine's. Techmarine has a WS4 while Master has WS5, combine this with the 2 PF attacks and it makes a difference.

I would give him Servo Harness, Mechanicus Protectiva, Terminator Honours, Purity Seals and "Advanced Bionics" which can be a combination of

Bionics & Combat Shield

Weapons:

Bolter and Master Crafted Lightning Claw (represented as a big 'Cog wheel' Power Axe)


Regards,


Archangelus

Edited by Archangelus, 27 July 2005 - 07:02 PM.

[Spiral]

It does say he replaced much of his body with Bionics...more than many Iron Hands. Maybe he could have both "New" and "Old" Bionics. IMHO it's very fluffy. He has enough machine parts to not only shrug off wounds, but enough that it protects the critical areas of his body as well.

Also I agree with the above sentiment for having his entire command squad given bionics.

[bannus]

...let's focus on the straight outta the Codex Paullian Blantar first up folks    Once the Codex Blantar is settled we can move on to the non-'dex Blantar in a new thread...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just a reminder, folks.

Also. Paullian Blantar would not (and in this incarnation, cannot) have a retinue of Space Marines, but a Servitor Bodyguard instead.

As for the cost of the servo-harness, he will have a WS4 - so no adjustment is necessary in point cost (while on that note, I believe that the point cost would still be fine the way it is since Techmarines pay full IC cost for their wargear anyway).

[SCC]

Anyone else got suggestions or shall I put the current Codex based suggestions to a poll?

[Hellstrike]

I think we might be ready for a vote, seems to be discussed and done with.

quick summary of the setups we have so far.
================================

1) master crafted Power axe, signum, bolt pistol, Mechanicus Protectiva (use as Iron Halo), Bionics, termie honors, and auspex. Servo arm, may be equipped with a servo harness at the points listed in Codex: Space Marines.

2) Servo Harness, Mechanicus Protectiva (Iron Halo), Terminator Honours, Purity Seals, Bionics, Combat Shield, bolter and Master Crafted Lightning Claw (represented as a big 'Cog wheel' Power Axe)

3) Power axe, bolter-plasma, bionics,auspex, melta bombs, terminator honours and a servo arm, may be equipped with a servo harness at the points listed in Codex: Space Marines.

4) Mastercrafted powerfist, combi plasma w/ deathwatch upgrade (special ammo), Artificer armour, iron halo, bionics obviously, auspex, terminator honours, servo arm signum and auspex.

5)Techmarine with S of Mars upgrade w/Servo Harness, Power Fist & Power Weapon (Modelled as one big axe), Terminator Honours, Bionics, Combat Shield (Mechanicus Protectiva), Frags

================================

These are the 4 main ideas I pulled out of the thread. There where a couple with alternate weapon rules and such, but since we are going for strictly codex options, I decieded to leave them out for when we do the next thread, home grown rules for Paullian. Any other additions?

--> Edit: Tossed in Ferrata's setup as #5.

Edited by Hellstrike, 29 July 2005 - 04:13 PM.

[Brother Vidius]

I may be the only one but I find the idea of yet another Iron Father carrying a power axe.Maybe because the chapter is named the Iron Hands and Ferrus Mannus had hands of living metal that a powerfist can be justified also?

[Ferrata]

These are the 4 main ideas I pulled out of the thread. There where a couple with alternate weapon rules and such, but since we are going for strictly codex options, I decieded to leave them out for when we do the next thread, home grown rules for Paullian. Any other additions

Thats probably me then I was trying to show that you could have seemingly a special weapon without breaking any rules. (Well, actually, WYSIWYG is broken). So I'll just list the items -

Techmarine with S of Mars upgrade w/Servo Harness
Power Fist & Power Weapon (Modelled as one big axe)
Terminator Honours
Bionics
Combat Shield (Mechanicus Protectiva)
Frags

Ferrata

[Hellstrike]

Not just you Ferrata, there where a couple ideas that combined the equipment to make new things, or tweeked a few rules. Some of which I quite liked (including yours). I just went through and pulled the main ones that seems to list just codex gear for simplicity. I have a couple out of the box ideas myself that I wanted to toss in, but left out due to the rules of this set up that SCC provided us with.

Once we get the standard codex rules (IE anyone with an iron hands army can build and play without having to worry about opponents permission or GW approval) then we can get down to the fun part, making home grown rules for him. There really is no way to represent the amount of bionics he has, or his chaplain-like standing (Iron fathers are a mix of Techmarines and chappys) in the chapter, or any special wargear with the codex equipment.

I didn't mean to exclude anyone, I hope to see those ideas and more like them when we start the next thread, there are some really good ideas, none of which are uber-god-character like, but show a good balance and respect for the nature of the game and spirit of the character and chapter.

My appologies if I stepped on any toes when I pulled that above list.