CRasterImage Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Ink Washes Tonight, I performed some documentation of different wash methods. I thought others might find this information useful, so I am posting it here. I chose to do a black wash on a white subject, since that would show the highest contrast. http://members.cox.net/shawnriordan/washes_small.jpg Large version: http://members.cox.net/shawnriordan/washes_large.jpg From left to right, here is the legend: - No wash. Included for reference purposes. All subjects were painted with 4 coats consisting of 50% Vallejo's Skull White and 50% water. - 1 drop of Citadel's Black Ink + 5 drops of tap water. Applied in 1 coat. - 1 drop of Black Ink + 15 drops of tap water. Applied in 3 coats. - 1 drop of Black Ink + 15 drops of isopropal alcohol. Applied in 1 coat. (I had high hopes for this one, but was very disappointed) - 1 drop of Black Ink + 15 drops of Future Floor Finish. Applied in 1 coat. When I went into this experiment, I was working under the assumption that the gradient quality of a wash had to do with the surface tension of the media. (I got this impression from reading many online articles) I can safely say now that assumption is rubbish. Future Floor Finish creates a smooth gradient effect due to it's thickness, not it's surface tension. This is the same principal that makes "dipping" with wood stain finishes work so well. The thickness allows it to dry with various levels of depth. Causing different degrees of shading. If reducing media surface tension had anything to do with smooth washes, then the alcohol wash would have been the best result, rather than the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykman Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Very useful , article ! <_< I`m using PVA glue to the ink , it`s nearly the same as in the last picture. But if you use Dishwasher ( Sunlicht ) , 1-2 drops in the ink and the surface tension completly different from the usual. Sorry for my english... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafgarion Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I'd definately like to see what effect dish washing detergeant has on normal water/ink ratios. I always add a bit in hopes that it'll turn out somewhat like FFF washes though i've never done a study on it as such. Good job though, it is great seeing the effects of ink washes in a controlled medium like this. Rather than on models themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luku Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 The folks in my GW always used a drop of washing up liquid in their ink mixes before applying it....I thought that was the common way? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 When I went into this experiment, I was working under the assumption that the gradient quality of a wash had to do with the surface tension of the media. (I got this impression from reading many online articles) I can safely say now that assumption is rubbish.It has to do with surface tension. If you use too much water without something to break the surface tension then the wash will pool uneven because of intermolecular forces in the water. Calling that rubbish after four tries is a bit too early. The fifth picture shows how surface tension is responsible for that. Or the lack of. FFF doesn't have the same surface tension as water. So the pigments can 'freely' distribute in the medium (FFF). In pure water (high water ratio) the water gathers in the middle and pushes the paint molecules to the edge. Try using a mix of water and FFF. Use water to thin the paint and the FFF to reduce/remove the surface tension. Washing up liquid does weaken the intermolecular forces that are responsible for the high tension in water. The same goes for FFF. In fact anything that dirties water does that because the intermolecular forces 'can be as effective' as in pure water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRasterImage Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 I am going to do a new round of test subjects soon. I want to include: - 100% Flow improver - 1/3 Flow Improver + 2/3 water - 1/3 FFF + 2/3 water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicorex Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hey not to dispairage your work or effort their is an easyer way to acheive this effect. base your model white then coat with one layer of Tamiya Clear Black. the Taimya paints are an achohal based paint i think, and their clear colors give a very shiny color effect. I will try to poat a pic of a model later ahh here is a pic http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Nicorex/DSCN0378.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscuzzy Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Try liquid detergent too. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRasterImage Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Nicorex, I am interested in this "Tamiya Clear Black". I have read articles that mention something called "Tamiya Smoke". Are they the same item? What is the true name of the product, so I know what to look for at the Hobby store? Is it used raw, or thinned? What can it be thinned with, water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicorex Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hey Yes Tamyia Smoke and Clear Black are the same color. Best bet to find it is at a Model/hobby shop. I havent ever seen it at Hobby Lobby or any of those places. Its called Tamiya Smoke. It should be racked with a number of other colors called Clear Red, Clear Yellow, etc etc etc... I dont thin it at all when i use it.. but I am going for the shiny drippy look when I do use it. Tamiya has a spesific thinner for these colors(there is a whole range of clears). I DONT think you can use water to thin it. Like this Very old Termi I did with Clear Red http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Nicorex/DSCN0381.jpg (pic to big so here is a link) Thuis was a simple job, i started with a the base model gave it a black wash, did the black outline, then i covered the entire model with the Clear Red, then added the gold and bone colors over the red. Its a fast and simple paint job. but it looked good on the table at the time( about 10 years ago now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkdung Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Distilled water would be best in a water category. And a true flow aid would be nice to see. Very well done though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Nicorex: That is the best stuff (especially for army painting) since ... nothing else :) . I never used these paints but a friend bought some. If I remember correctly there were different clear paints. On some it read that they are thinnable with water and some other were not. So it should be labeled on the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major smith Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 i just bought some valegio matt medium, you mix it to paint for washes and it looks real good i have to say!! better than fff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafgarion Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Try liquid detergent too. :) I definately second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Try liquid detergent too. :)I definately second that.Yup :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestover Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 As per Mario - Future does break the surface tension. I'm thinking the reason why the alchohol didn't produce a satisfactory result was that alchohol evaporates very quickly. It probably began to evaporate before the pigments have a chance to flow down in to the cracks and stay put. Adding just a drop or two of Future to a wash (or glaze) will help break the water tension and cause the paint with the pigment to "not stick to the sides", but flow more freely down in to the cracks and stay. This was a great documented experiment, however, and my compliments on the photographs. This illustrates pretty significantly the advantage to using a product like Future... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother dogma Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Do you thin out the laundry detergent with water and how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highborn Mergula Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 1Question here. Why using inks when there's washes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryrich Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 cuz some of us can get ink cheaper than the washes. I know i can get 3 times the washing done using ink water and soap (or future) for the same price as the GW washes. I'm strange but i use india ink. really bold colors and i only need a drop or 2 to do a whole model if all im using is black or brown. took me a few trys to get my mixture correct but i like the way it works. mind you im not a world class painter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 1Question here.Why using inks when there's washes? Because this thread is five years old, the washes hadn't been released then. @brother dogma: Don't expect an answer, the thread starter hasn't been online for a year. And please take the age of a thread into account as to whether it's worth it or not to post in it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 B) Excellent tutorial very useful gonna give it a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highborn Mergula Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 STOP POSTING HERE DONT REVIVE OLD THREADS!! REVIVING OLD THREADS= THREADOMANCY!!! tHREADOMANCY=BAD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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