Masked Thespian

Yes, definitely. In the background of my Watch Fortress, he's the highest ranking member of the Ordo Xenos there, so he's chosen to lead this expedition to claim the Necron technology. That's also the reason I have a Thunderfire Cannon, too, as I wanted a Techmarine in the army to evaluate the tech on the fly, but didn't feel I had enough vehicles in the army list to make it worth having the HQ version. That's an amazing idea, and I'm definitely going to borrow it and use it here! Definitely. I'm very much looking forward to building, painting, and playing this army.

Hi there. It's been a while since I posted here, but then it's been a while since I've been active in the hobby. I've recently purchased a ticket for the Rising Tomb event, a Narrative Event being held at Warhammer World in early September, to get myself back into the hobby. The rough plot of the event is that Necron technology is emerging on an Imperial world and the players are descending upon the world to claim it. I figured that my Watch Fortress would love to get its hands on some of this Necron technology so I'm going to be taking my Deathwatch. I only have a handful of assembled Deathwatch models, though I own almost an entire Watch Fortress's worth of them (and intend to eventually assemble and paint them all), so I had a bit of a blank slate when it came to choosing which units to take. I ended up choosing an army based around Watch Company Tertius, as I've already chosen exactly which units/kill teams are in each Watch Company of my Watch Fortress. The rules for the event are that you take along a 75 Power Level Order of Battle and for each of the five games you play you choose a 50 Power Level army chosen from that Order of Battle. Before the event begins and after each game you play you can spend Requisition Points appropriately and, after games, you get a small amount of time to progress your army using the Narrative rules, so they'll gain experience, Ranks, and Battle Honours accordingly. It's worth noting that the organisers have told me that you can't use the Increase Supply Limit Requisition, so that 75 Power Level is all that you're allowed to use over the course of the weekend. I'm looking for some advice on the Order of Battle I've chosen, in particular the weapons, Relics, and Warlord Traits that I can choose. I'm 99% sure that this is the army I'm taking, unless someone gives me some significant reasons to change it. 75 Power Level Order Of Battle HQ: Watch Captain in Terminator Armour, 6 PL HQ: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 4 PL Elites: 5 Company Veterans, 8 PL Elites: Invictor Tactical Warsuit, 8 PL Troops: Proteus Kill Team with Watch Sergeant, 4 Veterans, and 5 Deathwatch Terminators with three Plasma Cannons, 2 Storm Bolters, 3 Power Fists, 1 Chainfist, 1 Power Sword, and a Deathwatch Teleport Homer, 17 PL Troops: Spectrus Kill Team with Infiltrator Sergeant, 5 Infiltrators (1 with Helix Gauntlet), and 4 Eliminators, 17 PL Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon, 6 PL Flyers: Corvus Blackstar, 9 PL The core of the army, included in each game, is going to be the Watch Captain, the Inquisitor, the Thunderfire Cannon, and the Proteus Kill Team, all in a Patrol Detachment. That leaves me with 17 Power remaining, into which I can slot one of the following sets of units: Spectrus Kill Team Corvus Blackstar + Company Veterans Corvus Blackstar + Invictor Tactical Warsuit giving me three distinct armies to use throughout the course of the five-game event. Generally, I intend to take the Secure Xenotech Agenda in each game I play (as it thematically fits with the overall theme of the event) and will use either my Terminator Combat Squad or the Infiltrator Combat Squad to take it early and then move quickly back to my deployment zone (either with the Teleport Homer or with the Guerilla Tactics Strategum). I'm not sure what other Agenda to take, but as my army is pretty flexible I can probably do well at most of them. Overall, I could do with advice on the following: Watch Captain in Terminator Armour; whilst I would prefer to keep him (for narrative reasons), I am relatively receptive to swapping him out for a Librarian or a Chaplain. If not, I would be interested in suggestions for his weapon choices, Warlord Trait choice (as I'll likely spend a Requisition Point to give him one), and Relic choice (as I'll likely spend a Requisition Point to give him one of those, too). Inquisitor; again, he has been included as a narrative choice. I'm not too willing to swap him out, but may well swap both him and the Watch Captain above for a Librarian and a Chaplain if given that advice. Otherwise, I don't think I need any advice here, as I'm planning on giving him the Mental Interrogation Psychic Power, spending a Requisition Point to give him the Warlord Trait Ordo Xenos: Esoteric Lore, and am pretty sure that I'm giving him a Force Stave and a Needler Pistol or Plasma Gun for his weapons. 5 Company Veterans; I would like to have these Marines geared up for melee combat, to travel in the Corvus Blackstar until they get to a juicy target. However, I do recognise that outside of the dedicated melee combinations (Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield, twin Lightning Claws) it may be more prudent to gear them up as a melee/ranged hybrid (maybe with a combi-weapon and melee weapon each). I'm also aware that they may be better off as a 5 man Deathwatch Veterans squad, due to having access to Deathwatch Bolters and Combi-Weapons, a Xenophase Blade on the Sergeant, and a Heavy Thunder Hammer, so that is something I'm keeping in mind. Proteus Kill Team, Deathwatch Veterans; I'm intending to give these five models Deathwatch Shotguns, so I have a mobile, flexible shooting unit. Shotguns preclude any other weapons, though, so I'm considering not giving the Watch Sergeant a Shotgun and instead giving him a Xenophase Blade and a Combi-Melta (the longest-ranged Assault weapon he can have). I'm also debating giving one of them a Deathwatch Frag Cannon, since both of its firing modes are Assault so I can make use of it too. Spectrus Kill Team, Eliminators + Helix Adept; I'm unsure whether to give the four Eliminators all Sniper Bolt Rifles, or a mix of Sniper Bolt Rifles and Las-Fusils. Invictor Tactical Warsuit; overall I have no idea what to arm this with, but there are only a couple of choices so I don't imagine that it'll be too difficult. I'll be magnetising all of the options anyway, so I don't have to make my mind up straight away. Corvus Blackstar; again, I have no idea whether I want all anti-infantry, all anti-vehicle/monsters, or a blend of the two, but I have plenty of time to decide and, like the Invictor, I'll be using magnets. Any other general Deathwatch Narrative Play advice will be welcomed.

Thank you ever so much, Dr_Ruminahui :)

Originally I was discounting the halo, but on second thoughts can you/someone give me the height to the top of the halo instead of the head, please. Thank you

Hey everyone. This is pretty much a Ronseal post. I'm looking to maybe build a "counts as" Celestine model, but want to make sure it's as close to the current model as I can, in terms of physical dimensions, for purposes of line of sight so no-one can claim I'm modelling for advantage. I'm hoping that one of the many Adepta Sororitas players on this forum can grab their Celestine model and a ruler and do me a huge favour. The important measurements I'm after would be: Vertical height from top surface of base to top of Celestine's head, Vertical height from top surface of base to the tip of top-most feather on either right or left side, Horizontal length of wing span from tip of top-most feather on the left side to the tip of the top-most feather on the right side, Base width (the GW website says the kit comes with three 32mm bases, but the photos give the impression that they're bigger than that). Measurements would be preferred in millimetres but I'll be happy with imperial units if that's all you can provide me with. Thank you in advance

tl;dr: I want to use Dark Imperium Death Guard models and Kill Team: Rogue Trader Gellerpox Mutants in a Black Legion CSM army. Need help deciding whether to use native rules or as "counts as Black Legion" (with some conversions) instead. Hey everyone, hope you're all doing well during this current time. During lockdown, I've been stuck away from the majority of my collection so I've been looking at some things that I bought a while back but never got around to assembling. In particular, I've got unassembled sets of both Dark Imperium and Kill Team: Rogue Trader, so I have a bunch of Death Guard and Gellerpox Mutants that I can assemble and paint. I've collected Black Legion since the Second Edition Codex came out in 1998. I have dabbled with a couple of other Legions in the interim but the Black Legion are my first and foremost Chaos Space Marine army. I would like to incorporate the contents of the two above boxes into my Black Legion army; my opinion on the Black Legion is that they are almost like the Ultramarines of Chaos, having access to anything and everything in the Chaos arsenal, so Plague Marines and Gellerpox would fit right in. But I'm unsure whether to do them as their rules intend (I.e. Death Guard and Gellerpox Mutants respectively) or whether to try and incorporate them into the Black Legion with some conversions and "counts as" models. Each method has multiple reasons to not do it that particular way. Mainly: Intended RulesHaving to bring multiple books to games and using those multiple books to build army lists, Having different <Legion> keywords means that my army-wide rules only affect certain portions of my army, and some parts of my army can't benefit other parts, Having to reference a much larger pool of Stratagems to use during games, The potential of being labelled a power gamer due to using multiple codexes together as keyword soup. Counts AsNot everything can be used as a "counts as" easily, I really like some of the non-"counts as" unit choices rules, even if they're not the best (mostly the Poxwalkers and the entirety of the Gellerpox Mutants), Needing to do extensive conversion work on the Foetid Bloat-Drone model to make it into something from the core Codex: Chaos Space Marines (maybe a Nurgle Helbrute or Venomcrawler), Potential confusion for my opponents due to using existing Chaos models in an unintended role. Due to the last bullet point, I feel that I shouldn't do "counts as" because of all the issues I've listed above, that's the one that's going to affect my opponents the most. My ideas currently include counting the Lord of Contagion as a Nurgle Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour (converting his weapons accordingly), the Malignant Plaguecaster as a Nurgle Chaos Sorcerer, the Noxious Blightbringer as a Nurgle Dark Apostle, the Poxwalkers as Nurgle Cultists, Vilgar and the Nightmare Hulks as Nurgle Chaos Spawn, Mutilators, Greater Possessed, or Obliterators, the Gellerpox Mutants as Nurgle Cultists or Dark Disciples for the above Dark Apostle, and all of the small Gellerpox critters as allied Chaos Daemon Nurglings. There's not a lot of converting going on so what the original models are will be clear to anyone looking at them (albeit with a Black Legion paint job). I just don't like the feel of having a "Black Legion" army that uses (non-Daemon) units without the Black Legion keyword, especially as the models will be painted as Black Legion. I know that there's a stratagem that specifically helps such an army out (Legacy of Horus) but thematically they're supposed to be Black Legion so it kind of doesn't work (even though the rules let it). I'm not particularly interested in just assembling and painting the models and using them as whichever type takes my fancy: I want to pick one of the two options and stick to it, otherwise I could confuse opponents who play me in multiple games. If it makes a difference, I'm not a tournament player. I enjoy playing themed games and campaigns rather than win-at-all-cost ones. I'll possibly play with the models at a Games Workshop event or in a store at some point, as well as at independent events and gaming clubs. Does anyone have any suggestions on which of these options I should do and help make me feel better about choosing it?

Ooh, that sounds like a really great ide- -a... Huh... That kinda sucks, that even though you can use the app you still have to cross-reference through all of the books to confirm everything's okay. I guess it's nice that the app will give you an idea of roughly how much a unit with a particular load-out will cost, but if I still have to flick back and forth through all the books I don't think it's for me. Agreed. Back in 3rd Edition GW did sell an Army Builder program. It's wasn't the best but it was pretty functional for a very cheap price. Had lots of support from the users, too. And I kinda agree with the thing about Power Levels, even though every army book I've read that they've done in the past had the unit costs there and the upgrades listed with cost on a second page (and I've played through 40k 2nd Edition through to 8th, and Fantasy 4th Edition through to 8th, so that's a lot of army books). Glad to hear that I'm not the only one having this problem. I figured there was a non-zero chance that I'd get laughed out of here with comments like "first-world problems". I'm thinking that I'm going to have to do something along these lines. Maybe not a custom pdf file, but annotated post-it notes with weapons options and costs on the appropriate pages might have to suffice.

I'm looking at attending a tournament at the end of the month, so I've been looking at writing a 1500 point Deathwatch army list. But, upon trying to do so, I can't help but feel a little overwhelmed by the process. This is the process I am following: I first need to look at the page in Index Imperium 1 telling me which units I can take, then decide on a unit, I look up the unit entry (either in Index Imperium 1 or Codex: Space Marines), I decide how many of each model I want, I flick to the back of the book to check the points cost per model, I cross-reference with Chapter Approved 2017 to see if the points cost has been changed, I decide which weapon or weapons I kit the models out with, I flick to the back of the book to check the costs of the weapons, I cross-reference with Chapter Approved again, I then get to calculate the total cost of the unit. Rinse and repeat for each unit I wish to take that is even slightly different from another one. Is this really the only way to do this? It feels so inefficient and it feels like if I want to re-jig a unit in any way I pretty much have to go through the whole process again.

Sounds like the general consensus is that there's no real reason to have a Storm Shield on a Watch Sergeant. The model doesn't actually have a Xenophase Blade glued to it (as I said in the original post, the left arm is magnetised at the shoulder, so I can choose to have any weapon option I want on it) so that's not a problem. It shouldn't be too problematic to pry the Storm Shield off and glue something else in its place. Thanks everyone.

Personal modelling rules for the army. All models that, under 7th Edition, were characters (so all HQ choices, all types of Sergeants, and all Black Shields) get bare heads and all other models get helmets. It was just the way I wanted my character models to stand out when I started assembling the army.

I have a Watch Sergeant model left over from when I built him back in 7th Edition. Back then having a Storm Shield on a unit character like this was useful as he could accept challenges that would otherwise prevent your Independent Character/Black Shield from being able to deal a lot of damage to the opponent's troops and have a chance of surviving. But in 8th, I'm finding it difficult to find a decent reason to arm him as such. The only thing I can see having a Storm Shield useful for, tanking hits that would otherwise kill a Deathwatch Veteran outright, seems better served on a non-Watch Sergeant model as if I fail the save then I lose his enhanced Leadership and Attacks. The model itself has a magnetised shoulder on the other arm, so I can arm it with anything else. But is there any point in taking a Storm Shield on a Watch Sergeant in 8th Edition?

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. I'll be sure to take as much of it on board as I can. I, sadly, don't have limitless pockets nor access to a huge range of bits, so I won't be able to do a number of the suggestions given, but they have given me some food for thought. As I mentioned in my first post, the entire army isn't going to be tricked out to take advantage of being in Power Levels but I do plan on taking either one or two units like that or spread a trick or two amongst each/most unit/s in the army just to make sure I don't just flat out lose every game. I did want to talk about a couple of the points raised by a few of the commenters, mostly questions about things that I'm not 100% on. I'm not completely up to date on 8th Edition rules, but is that okay? Can you transport multiple units in a single transport these days? Can Deathwatch take Primaris Marines? Last time I checked, they didn't have access to them. Did I miss some errata somewhere? Can Deathwatch Kill Teams take Lascannons? Again, is there errata that I've missed? I'm going to the same event, but only Chaos tickets were left when I found out about it. Magnets are good, especially when you can change between games and tailoring to the scenario (if not your opponent's army) is fair game. I'd pack some artillery if you have any, you don't want to end up in a siege scenario with just shotguns. The advantage of Acolytes is how you can model them. Otherwise Crusaders sound good but bare in mind that Crusaders can be modeled differently as well. To be honest the Aquila lander is probably protection enough. If I was an Inquisitor with a plane I wouldn't land until my objective was in my grasp. The obvious Deathwatch power level efficiency scenario is terminators with melta guns and cyclone missile launchers. Personally I like all my Kill Teams (well, I have two including Cassius) to be proper mixed units but I didn't design my customized team to be used just to be a bunch of cool heroes I could ally in for Apocalypse games. Deathwatch Veterans are effectively 40 points, so there's no reason to be shy about throwing upgrades on them. I have the same problem with my Chaos Terminators. Giving them all combi-meltas and chainfists would be abusive, using my normal 2000 point load out would be screwing myself over. Assuming that you wanted to play as something other than Chaos then you have my sympathies. When the original batch of tickets went on sale I was on the fence about going. By the time I'd made my mind up to go (using Deathwatch), Imperial tickets had sold out. I then had to make my mind up over whether to go with one of my other armies and by the time I decided to go with my Chaos Space Marines both Chaos and Invader tickets had sold out. I was lucky enough to get an Imperial ticket when the second wave of tickets went on sale, thanks to getting up earlier than usual and waiting on the right page hitting F5 repeatedly. I do have a penchant for magnets. Although I've only assembled 16 models so far, back in 2016, I'd already magnetised a few things (left arms on Watch Sergeant and Bikers, to take Power Swords, Power Axes, Power Fists, or a Boltgun (for the Watch Sergeant), as well as magnetising the two different combi-weapon options on the standard Deathwatch arm). I think the best thing about this event is that you're not forced into taking the same army for all of the games, meaning you can take more than 100 Power Levels worth of models and swap things out between rounds, as well as the flexibility that having magnets gives you. I'm actually thinking that I probably won't take the Aquila Lander. Whilst under previous editions it could have been a good choice, these days Inquisitors (as do most characters) seem to be best off at buffing things around them. Although the Leadership bonus won't get used all that much (as it's the same as those of unit Sergeants), his one Telethesia Psychic Power seems to be about the only thing that he'll be good for, and he won't be able to use on the turn that the Lander drops out of the sky. He'll have to march up the field alongside a Kill Team or ride in one of their transports, I feel. As for bodyguards, I've really gone cold on the idea of them. Acolytes are just way too squishy for their Power Level cost and whilst I can somewhat reconcile the other units with regards to my army's background, I don't really think I want to (especially without the Lander as the six-model limit was solely based on being transported by that). I completely agree with your point about Chaos Terminators: on the one hand, taking an entire army of Power Level-abusive units is completely against the spirit of the event, but on the other hand taking an army based around a usually point-level-based set of units is likely going to lead to an 0-8 record. I'm hoping that the advice given to me in this thread is going to help me strike a fine balance between the two, especially as most, if not all, of the Power Level-abusive units I build and paint will likely never see the light of day at my local store/club.

Hey everyone. As mentioned previously, I'm planning on attending the next Warhammer World campaign weekend event, The Tenebris System, and I'm going to be taking my Deathwatch. For the most part, I'm going to be taking pure Deathwatch, with the only deviation being an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, his transport (if any) and his support staff/bodyguards (if any). The campaign weekend allows you to take an army of your choice with no limitations other than that all units have to have the IMPERIUM keyword, the CHAOS keyword, or neither keyword (I.e. all Xenos armies), depending on the ticket you bought (in my case, all units have to have the IMPERIUM keyword). Nonetheless, I plan on sticking to the above restrictions (Deathwatch & OX Inquisitor + retainers), especially to the point that I'm hoping to not have to buy any new models (having purchased a lot of Deathwatch when they first came out). The armies have to be Battle Forged with a maximum of three detachments, and the composition of the army roster can be changed between games. Most importantly (to this post, at least), the army limit is 100 Power Levels, rather than a points cost limit. Whilst I'm planning on taking a fun and thematic army, I'm not opposed to taking a handful of well-tuned units to make sure the army does well on the tabletop. It's my understanding that pure Deathwatch haven't been doing too well in 8th Edition, so I don't feel too bad taking a few powerful units. So, with regards to units with the DEATHWATCH keyword, where are the places that you can take advantage of using Power Levels rather than points? The obvious choice to me seems to be to take minimum-sized Deathwatch Kill Teams, as taking 2 minimum-sized units versus taking 1 full sized unit costs 18 PL as opposed to 19 PL for the same 10 models, which is a minimal saving but it is a saving. Also, you get two Watch Sergeants, the opportunity to take two Black Shields, and double the amount of Heavy Weapons. Presumably, the best way to also take advantage of Power Levels is to upgrade the models as much as possible, with Power Weapons and Combi-Weapons on most, if not all, models in the Kill Team. I don't think I'd want to do this with all of my Kill Teams, as I do intend to play points-cost games with them too, but I don't mind assembling a couple of units like this. Are there any other places where using Power Levels over points costs gives you an advantage in pure Deathwatch?

My biggest problem with Acolytes is that they're REALLY squishy for 6 Power Levels. It doesn't really matter how much I upgrade them (especially as they only have BS 4+ so their shooting isn't that great in general) as they'll die as soon as my opponents even look in their direction. I agree that Scions would probably be better used on their own, which means that I won't get to use them (as I'm planning on just going Deathwatch + the Inquisitor with his bodyguards). I like Crusaders, a lot. They're probably my number one choice right now. Having posted this post and then gone to bed last night, I considered the possibility of Ogryns or Bullgryns (though, like you mentioned, I had to discount the Ogryn Bodyguard itself) as I was trying to get to sleep. I agree that 3 Bullgryns would probably be the most survivable, though I don't own any models and I'm really trying to do this army without buying anything new for it. I do have Ogryns (the old 2nd Edition metal ones) so that could be an option, but the idea of Bullgryns is quite tempting. I think so too. I want to model them as Adeptus Arbites (either using the old Necromunda Executioner models or a kit bash of Space Marine Scouts, Cadians, and the old Bretonnian Man-At-Arms shields) which I think would make a lot of sense in terms of the background. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not sure what I'm going to go with right now. The fact that the campaign weekend allows you to change your army roster between games means that there's every chance that I could use none, some, or even all of the ideas above, depending on what I get glued and painted up in time. We'll have to see...

Hey, everyone. After getting up early, I managed to bag myself a ticket to the next Warhammer World campaign weekend event, The Tenebris System. I'm going to use it as an excuse to motivate myself to get my Deathwatch army assembled and painted. As can be seen above, right from the beginning I've incorporated an Inquisitor into my Deathwatch army, and I intend to glue and paint him up for the campaign weekend. I recognise that it won't be a terribly effective unit, but it fits the narrative and campaign weekends are all about the narrative. I intend to run him with a Force Staff, a Needle Pistol, and as a Psyker. I'm also considering having him ride in an Aquila Lander (that I originally bought for one of my Daemonhunter Inquisitors) as his personal transport. But I'm looking to see what the best bodyguards I can have for him that can ride alongside him. The campaign pack makes it clear that armies are built using Power Levels, so I'm looking for things that are better when using Power Levels than with points. The Aquila Lander has a transport capacity of 7 Astra Militarum models (Ogryns and Heavy Weapons Teams counting as 2 models each), though, obviously, units with the Authority of the Inquisition can bypass the keyword limitation. The obvious choice for a bodyguard unit is Inquisitorial Acolytes. They have the special rule that they can absorb wounds for a nearby Inquisitor. They also have a pretty wide range of options for weapons, meaning that I can kit them out pretty nicely. However, they're fairly costly in terms of Power Level for a full unit, and they're only Toughtness-3/Save-5+ which means that they'll die super easily. Despite their special rule to protect the Inquisitor, they seem like the squishiest option. The next choice I thought of was Tempestus Scions. They're a little tougher than the Acolytes, having a 4+ save, and come with pretty decent weapons as standard, though can also be upgraded with other, also decent, weapons too. I can only take 5 of them (as the 6th would eat up an extra 2 Power Levels for a single model, which doesn't seem like a good idea) and they're not that much more survivable than the Acolytes. Finally, I'm considering Crusaders from the Astra Militarum Codex. They have a 3++ which makes them the most survivable of the bunch, and can dish out a reasonable amount of damage in melee. On the downside, they have no ranged weapons. Does anyone have any ideas as to what bodyguards I should use for my Inquisitor?