ThePenitentOne

To quote the Oracle from the Matrix, "Here's what's really going to bake your noodle:" What if, in addition to all three Imperial forces in the season being Chamber Militant units, each of them follows the pattern of Sanctifiers, and is supplied with a datacard to use them for either their associated faction or as an additional requisitioned unit for their respective Ordos? I mean honestly, don't you remember when the Dex dropped thinking, "Huh, the demise of the Deathwatch is terrible, but it does also mean the DW have more units available as requisitioned units than any other faction?" I remember wondering why not include a Power Armored unit of GK in addition to Terminators as requisition option? Why not Dominions or Sacressants? Maybe the reason why is that GW had a plan all along to add these units to the requisition roster. And look, GW are the KINGS of missed opportunities, but if this DOES turn out to be the case? Whoever is the Inquisition advocate on the 40k design team is an evil genius who watched in silence as we all panned his team's work knowing full well that they were gonna knock us on our asses if we could just shut up and wait a year and a half. The curse about seeing this as a possibility is that if it doesn't happen, I'm going to be at least a bit disappointed, which would be a shame if it prevented me from fully appreciating good new kits for sisters and DW, two armies that I both love and happen to collect.

This thread REALLY makes me want to buy a box of guardians- my Craftworld force is mostly aspects and Wraiths right now; they're assembled and basecoated, but I'm not launching their Crusade for a while, and the roster's lack of guardians always felt like an oddity. But what you've done here really intrigues me, and I'd love to playtest this- especially the Platform rules!

New to the club and late to the party, but I love this idea and the cards produced so far look great. Because I see everything through the lens of campaign play, I feel like there is also the potential for special NPO's. As I'm posting this, they've just announced that the new Nightbringer will be getting an NPO card.... And when you conceived this project, I imagine you likely didn't imagine that there would be an NPO card for such a powerful unit, but here we are. And within the scope of the project, I think it's still best to do the sorts of things you've demonstrated with Guardians, ie. beginning each faction's collection of NPO cards with those most likely to be used and encountered. You might still want to have Aspect Warrior NPO cards to use in very specific, original, narrative missions... But you want those Guardian NPO's first, because you'll have to fight through a few waves of basic infantry before you come up against a faction's elite/ specialist units. I'm really interested in participating in the project. Right now, I'm deep in the Drukhari, so perhaps I'll commit to trying my hand at a few NPO's for them. I think a Kabalite is a basic Shooter, a Wych is a basic fighter, a Wrack is a tough. For your big Elites, maybe an Incubus or a Grotesque (if we ever get a good model). I think doing up a Talos as a special boss/ monster card would be interesting... But it's a perfect example of that card you probably don't need until all the other more common and useful cards in the faction set have already been completed, because it's the kind of card that would almost NEED a special custom mission to go with it, just like the Nightbringer is going to need a special mission to facilitate the use of its NPO card.

As part of my effort to post in this Club more often, I wanted to follow up on this post, even after so long. I never finished the Iron Challenge: it was one in a series of incomplete challenges, and while I was disappointed that I didn't finish, there IS more material for the project than I've posted here: I had an Iron Challenge Progress thread, and I posted the other stuff there. For the benefit of the Crusaders in this club (if you're interested), here are the datacards for two units I created for the challenge: The Grain Maiden and the Assassins of the Grain Maiden's Rage (GMR). So a few things here: first, you'll notice that a lot of the rules on the Grain Maiden card are very narrative focused, and many interact with how this unit integrates with the Crusade Roster: any Thresher woman can be the Grain Maiden, but only for a limited time, and only ever once: when the Equinox festival ends, she becomes a Novitiate. Six games later, another Thresher woman will be chosen as the new embodiment of the Grain Maiden, and when her ceremony ends, she too will become a Novitiate. Now, I think it's worth noting that while ALL of this stuff was in my head as background material, I never actually planned on creating house rules for any of it; I prefer to keep my house rules related to the campaign mechanics rather than the game mechanics, because I want to avoid even the perception of creating rules for the sake of power. That's why I tried to use only existing rules for my Harvester of Sorrow detachment (and yes, that is a deliberate Metallica reference- pre-Bob-Rockification, because METAL). Now while I ever proceed with the remaining elements of the Iron Challenge, despite deadlines long since passed? Yes. But I want to use the special rules sparingly. The names, background and fluff? That's Canon now- it's permanent, and it will be a part of every development within the sisters faction in this campaign... But the Fiery Heart/ Harvester of Sorrow rules come with a built-in sunset clause: eventually, the Desdaemona system will be rediscovered by the Imperium at large, and when that happens, the Sisters of Saint Katherine's Aegis will become another Mission of the Order of Our Martyred Lady. The grain Maiden and the Assassins of her Rage don't have a sunset clause, but there are built in limitations on their use. Originally, the Grain Maiden was going to be represented by a House Escher Death Maiden model, and I may follow through and stick to my guns on that, but there are also suitable models in the Sanctifiers box, and I might end up preferring to use one of those. Similarly, I had picked a Redemptionist model to represent a priest, because I wanted something plastic and neither Taddeus nor Pious fit... Both of them are going to appear in the campaign for a brief time AS the actual BSF characters, so I don't actually want to use those models to represent generic units. And that's it for now. My next planned post to this thread will be the painted models I pledged for the challenge... But that's going to take a while because I'm hip-deep in Drukhari right now, and there's a thread about them on the way, as well as a battle report that's three years in the making. In the meantime, however, I do welcome any feedback or conversation. Cheers!

I am going to look for recent uses of the term Chamber Militant, because I am sure I remember seeing it used somewhere since 8th, though I concede it certainly isn't used as commonly as it was in some of the previous editions. However, in your haste to dismiss the Chamber Militant relationship, you may have over looked the fact that the only units in the Imperial Agents dex that actually have Ordo keywords are the named Inquisitors... And the Chamber units. Yep. Sisters and Immolators having the Ordo Hereticus Keyword says they are the Chamber Militant even more clearly than using the words "Chamber Militant" in some passing piece of fluff that has nowhere near as much impact on the game as the Keyword does. I've said it before: lore without rules that back it up doesn't actually mean anything, because 40k is a game, not a novel. But those Keywords are rules; they impact the game more than the phrase Chamber Militant ever did, and they quite clearly indicate a special relationship between Ordo and Chamber that doesn't exist for any other classification of Agent, regardless of the words that are or are not used to describe that relationship in the fluff that is written to support the game. Put more colloquially (if somewhat more crudely), seeing an Ordo Xenos keyword on the Watchmaster and Artemis datacards more clearly indicates that the Deathwatch is the Ordo Xenos' subordinate than a line of fluff stating "The Deathwatch is the chamber militant of the Ordo Xenos" ever did. Like, you could show me 100 stories or novels where the Deathwatch turn down a request from Xenos Inquisitor, but that damn Ordo Xenos keyword on the datacard says that in the game, where it actually counts, the Deathwatch doesn't have any capacity to ignore the summons of the Ordo when it comes. Be that as it may, so far you are correct, and your point does still stand: I skimmed the Agents dex as closely as I could and couldn't find a single instance of the phrase "Chamber Militant". I'll check the other materials tomorrow and get back to you if I find it anywhere. For some reason, I'm thinking I might have seen it in the 9th ed Sisters dex; 9th is the only edition for which I have the Codices of all three Chambers, but I've got sisters from 8th, 9th and 10th.

I don't know man... Repentia are troops who swear an oath with the hopes of redeeming themselves despite the likelihood that they die trying; mortifiers are those whose sins are so great that the Order has decided to punish them with excrutiation that persists through every waking moment of their existence on the battlefield and off; the very name "Mortifier" implies you're trapped on a machine with the intention you remain there until death in all but the rarest of cases. And as for giving PE's heavy bolter options, remember that PE's are used to punish CIVILIANS. Yes, they can probably use buzzsaws and flamers somewhat effectively, but heavy bolters are only going to be remotely effective if the person trapped in the mortifier has effective enough firearms training that has become muscle memory, allowing them to use the Heavy Bolters despite the constant pain inflicted by the machine. I see Mortifiers as an expansion of the concept of the Penitent Legion rather than as a contraction of the concept of Repentia, and I say that as a guy who fielded a Witch Hunter army in 3rd that consisted of a 1500 point Penitent Legion and a 1500 point Holy Choir rather being designed as a single 3k point army. It was harder to do then than it is now because of Mortifiers. And again, as I'm constantly reminding people in "suggest an improvement" type threads, think carefully about suggesting the removal of anything, because you are already free not to use it if you don't like it, whereas those who do like it would have no access to it if GW ever did follow your suggestions. Why should I be prevented from using Mortifiers just because you don't like them, even though you're free to solve your not liking them problem by simply not using them. Which isn't to say that there aren't things that could be removed from the game.... I just don't think there are as many of them as other people seem to think there are. As I said earlier in another post, I'm not a huge fan of the Dreadknight as a model and I personally wouldn't shed a tear if it was scrapped, especially if it was replaced with something better... But I'd never suggest removing it from the game, because my buddy Wil LOVED his Dreadknight, and taking it from him would push the poor guy to rage quit. Instead of suggesting that it be removed, I'll just exorcise my freedom to not buy one and let Wil continue to enjoy the game.

Just to clarify: The most recent edition of Kill Team (KT 24) include a Co-operative/ Player versus Environment mode. In the beginning of the edition, this mode was kind of an add-on- there were a lot of additions and refinements presented in White Dwarf, but the product line didn't really have a way monetize or support that mode with specific products... Until the Raveners box set, which included cool Tyranid terrain, as well as extra termagants intended to be used in the Co-op/ PVE mode. It was a great value-add, and an excellent idea. Non-Player-Operative (NPO) is the term for the non-player version of the datacard, and all of them include Behavioural Directives so that you can play solo; your team does whatever you want it to do, but the NPO's behave according to these Behavioural Directives in order to automate the process of them fighting back against you. And even in games that AREN'T solo, your team and another team gang up, and face off against NPO's following their behavioural directives rather than fighting each other. SO yes, don't worry about BD's being something that interferes with your normal enjoyment of any model: they are only relevant in Kill Team, and even then, only in the Co-Op/ Solo/ PVE game mode... Though in the case of Nightbringer, you can be guaranteed that he's powerful enough that using him as an NPO would be the only way he could possibly be used. If he was allowed in a player controlled KT, he would irreversibly warp the balance of the game. Now what's really cool? The Warcom article explicitly tells us he's designed as the culmination of the season's story... So the Deathwatch from box one can team up with the Sisters in box 2 to fight the Nightbringer NPO and his minions. Other boxes from the season might follow the same theme.. As for release schedules, the article seems to imply that DW v Crons in the Tombworld box will go up for preorder before the end of the month- most likely the 23rd since this week was pure AoS. It doesn't say how many boxes there are in the season, but we know of two. If the piece about Nightbringer coming in 2026 refers to his release as an NPO in Kill Team, it's reasonable to hope for a third box in the season that would come between the DW v Crons box and the Nightbringer box... But it's important to remember that the 2026 release of Nightbringer might be referring to his 40k release, meaning that it is equally possible that you will be able to get your hands on him before 2026 through the Kill team box. My hope is that since we now know there are at least two Necron boxes in the series, maybe there will be additional pieces of Necron terrain designed to expand upon what we've seen from the first box.

YES YES YES! And give us a 40k Datacard for the Kharon Pattern Aquisitor while they're at it. Adding SoS and Scions as to Codex: Imperial Agents as additional Requisitioned units was low hanging fruit that GW missed entirely. The Ashes of Faith book DID allow both units as requisitioned troops, but the Dex dropped the ball even though the heavy lifting had already been done.

Cool- that gives me an excuse to put it in the Crusade Club, even though those rules could be used in a context outside of Crusade. But I think the reason it fits is the Thresher Houses. These are the farm-punk inhabitants of the Agri-world of Orison's Wake. They are represented in game with Necromunda models; they're an NPC faction, which at Kill Team scale makes them excellent NPO's. I've been trying to figure them out for a while... I won't go into details here, because it'll make a good place to start the Index: Necromunda thread. Thanks for all the feedback.

So first off, let me say I'm so sorry it's taken nine months to reply. But this is probably an even more relevant discussion now than it was originally posted, because as I understand it, the more recent campaign books HAVE allowed Epic characters to be included and to receive Crusade upgrades. As I understand it, they don't get a full four battle honours like generic units do, but the one or two upgrade powers that they do qualify for are pretty powerful, and their effects tend to extend beyond the character in question. I'm not sure how I feel about it; I like that generic characters become as well developed as named characters over the course of a campaign, and I think including options for Epic Character Crusade upgrades just undermines that, creating a pinnacle within the progression system which will forever remain unavailable to any of YOUR DUDES and only ever apply to GW's own characters. Having said that though, I know very little about Necrons, and I don't have any of the campaign books except the original Tyrannic War book. I do look forward to learning more about Necrons; with the upcoming Tombworld Terrain, Necron Kill Team and the KT box with the new plastic Nightbringer, I think it's time.

Hey there folks, I wanted to thank everyone who has checked out this club, followed or posted, and apologize that I haven't checked in as often as I should. It bummed me out to see that people's posts had gone ignored. I've reset my notifications so that the only time I get notified is direct messages and club posts, so now hopefully I'm more likely to catch things. I've reported in other places that I actually played my first game of 10th not long ago, and I finished a unit of Kabalites that were pledged for a 12 Month challenge in March of 2023! I've put a lot of work into my Wych Cult Arena and the fighting surface is ready... But I've been doing some design work for the spectator seating. Finally, I've pledged 5 Mandrakes, 5 Wracks, a Haemonculus and a Court of the Archon for this years Call to Arms. I'm expecting to finish both the Arena and the pledge by the end of my vacation on August 24. I actually want to finish all of that by mid-week next week, because I want to begin a Commorragh Crusade that will eventually connect back to Orison's Wake. Finally, I'm looking at expanding upon what I've posted about Imperial Citizens in the context of a new project: Index Necromunda. The Thresher Houses of Orison's Wake were always intended to be represented by Necromunda models, so in a sense, 40k Datacards for Necromunda Gangs and Thresher houses would be essentially the same thing. So, more information about all of this stuff IS on the way, though it won't be showing up here in general discussion- I think I'm going to put the Commorragh-based campaign content in the same place as as the rest of the Saint Katherine's Aegis campaign material rather than giving it a subforum of its own; if I did that, every campaign faction would end up with its own forum, and that really tears into sub-forum real estate. But I had to get the uncomfortable "Sorry to be an abstentee land-lord" post out of the way in order to move forward.

Wow- I really like Index: Necromunda as a working title, and yes, I think involving other people is really the only way to tackle something this big- especially since I'm a guy who right now doesn't have any Necromunda books. I'm thinking of remedying that- if I have a bunch of models for use in 40k, I might as well spring for the books to use them in another game- it just increases the versatility of products I already own. But I'm never going to buy them all.

Uhhm, NO. Got that? NO! The Chambers Militant, for me, are the only thing interesting about marines at all, and I'd much rather see the end of DA/SW/BA/BT than the end of the Chambers Militant. I could happily see the size of the generic Marine Army reduced by half than to see a single DW or GK model removed, even the Dreadknight. But the truth is that when I'm asked to make suggestions about the game, I never actually suggest removing anything, because I know there is someone somewhere who loves whatever that thing happens to be, and removing it would wreck the game for them... and just who the hell do I think I am that I would suggest destroying the game for them in order to marginally improve it for me? We've been fighting for friggin DECADES to get GW to show the Inquisition the respect they deserve. Removing their chambers militant DOES NOT HELP. The outcry when GW tried to do exactly what you're suggesting with Deathwatch in 10th was so immediate, universal and extreme that GW walked back their decision with a digital download, and hopefully they now recognize the magnitude of their mistake (and yours), and they will never engage with such foolishness again (nor should you). Your blaspheme has been declared Heretical. Prepare yourself for excrutiation. The Emperor Protects. Note: There is a tongue-in-cheek voice at work here, and that probably doesn't come across because text has no tone. Truth be told, all opinions are valid... But THIS opinion, I'll admit is a bit of a trigger for me. I just think that since you are already perfectly free to only include a single Chamber Unit in another Imperial army if that's your head-canon, you don't have to screw up the game for everyone else in order to make it possible to do the thing you want to do. Like personally, I think that Crusade should be the default game and this crazy tournament thing should be the extra added on piece that few if anyone bothers to talk about, because the idea that I should have to travel to other cities and countries to participate IN ADDITION to spending a fortune and the models themselves is, quite frankly, rocks-in-the-head stupid. But since I can already play Crusade, there's no actual reason to suggest eliminating tournament play for those that enjoy spending thousands of extra dollars on plane tickets and hotel rooms, is there? I mean, unless the thing I really want is not for me to have more fun, but for people who would rather play a different way to have less. (Damn... My PS/ Caveat/ walkback didn't doe as much to reduce the appearance of hostility as intended. Maybe I'm just too grumpy for the Internet today. Sorry man. Not sorry enough to delete the post... I think my point is valid even if my tone is a bit much in places.)

So the Sisters shield is labeled Praesidium Protectiva- the mercurial yet eternal piece of wargear that has been connected to my sisters since 3rd. If you know me, then you've probably seen a post or two about the Sisters of St Katherine's Aegis: the Aegis I'm referring to IS the Praesidium Protectiva born into battle by Saint Katherine herself in her capacity as Dominica's shieldbearer. In the Witch Hunter dex, which I used from 3rd-5th, the Praesidium Protectiva was a piece of wargear- a shield that contained a small fragment of the Emperor's armour, conferring an Invulnerable save as a result of his divine protection. The shields were rare, but not unique, although the number that existed was never given. In a massive Apocalypse game that has since become the stuff of legend, each player (there were six of us in two teams of three) got to personalize one of the objectives to provide a bit of a narrative hook about why each of these six armies was participating in the battle. I chose to make my objective the Shield of Saint Katherine... And since the only rules for shields anywhere in the dex were for the Praesidium, those were the rules I used. Fast forward to 8th edition and the Triumph of Saint Katherine, and now the Praesidium Protectiva IS the Praesidium Protectiva! I'm not sure the new lore for Katherine's shield used "the" or "a" as the article for the Praesidium, but I remember feeling at the time like it had been retconned to being a single, unique shield. And now it returns... And clarifies that there are in fact multiple Praesidia Protectiva.

Just saw your post @Brother Tyler - thanks for the suggestion, and I think I'll follow your advice. Also, your Kill Team project sounds awesome. It looks like Necromunda Rules are cagey on transport capacity- the internet sleuthing I've done seems to suggest that flatbeds are used for transporting models, NOT Cargo containers, and the capacity seems to be how many models physically fit on the bed. That rule is just too weak and vague for 40k, so it looks like I'm picking an arbitrary number. It'll be a while before I move on this: right now, the Drukhari Army is going well, but there's a lot more that needs to be done. Hermiatus isn't far off though: once my Call to Arms vow is done I'll be switching gears for a bit and Hermiatus is high on my list.