ThePenitentOne

Oh wow man, just checked the Space Marine pack, and if you're okay with Legends, Chaos can take Spartans and Leviathans. I don't know if that was always the case, but I love these models for Loyalists, and they're even cooler if you Chaosify/ Convert them. Thanks for the detailed analysis/ comparison of IA DW to Index DW- I didn't even notice that the IA Teams were the old composition. That's cool because I can still use my Outriders in a KT as long as it's an IA list. I am now motivated to finish the conversion (getting DW shoulderpads to work on outriders is not going to be fun (it's been a while since I looked at the kit, so I'm not sure it's all three riders that have shoulderpads built directly onto the arm, but at least one of them does).

So the only one I've looked at so far is Imperial Agents- it's a huge improvement- Karamazov, the Jokaero and Daemonhost are back and they added a ton of Deathwatch Cards. I'm going to to check out the others that interest me, but I won't be checking out all of them- I made the thread general to updated packs rather than specific to IA, so anyone can post changes to their favourites.

@Captain Idaho Thanks for the response... And you're right- I tend to miss the larger point looking at specifics, and because I'm an information guy, I also frequently miss humour. I need to lighten up! And while I care very little about Marines, it is certainly true that 40k would collapse without them. Even I have to concede that Deathwatch and Grey Knight DO continue to interest me- I was ecstatic to see that the new Deathwatch Decimus Kill Team is up, for example. So even I, the guy who constantly whines about Marines, wait for the announcements about them that DO affect me. @SpecialIssue You wrote: "You and everyone else, from a 15 year old with badly painted custom chapter to Dan Abnett and the Imperial Armours, first and foremost are meant engage with the setting by carving out your own area within, using your own creativity and imagination. Not consume a serialised story that is imposed on everyone regardless of its quality or their taste." I agree, BTW, but I think my position is that even in the current era, nothing prevents me from doing exactly what I used to do before the plot started advancing with Gathering Storm. If you check out my Chronicle of Saint Katherine's Aegis posts in the Crusade Club, you'll see that the system I created does not exist anywhere in GW's Lore. The Desdaemona system is a backwater that's been ignored by the Imperium for 4 millennia. Guilliman is never going to go there. The ongoing narrative did not prevent me from doing that. Now, as fate would have it, there ARE elements of the Lore I DO plan to use. In my original conception of this campaign, it was always going to be rediscovered by the Imperium at large eventually. But I am choosing to use the discovery of the Blackstone Fortress on the Western Fringe of Pacificus as the thing that motivates that discovery... So Taddeus the Purifier and Pious Vorne will find the System on their way to the BSF- they'll stop in as "Guest members" for a battle or two and then move on. They'll return to the Desdaemona system on their way back from the BSF. But here's the kicker: I'm CHOOSING to do that because it's convenient, but I could have just as easily have had a random Explorator Crew make that discovery. In the day before the plot started moving, we chose what to use and what not to use. We still do. Don't like the Cicatrix Maledictum? Set your games in an area of the galaxy that's unaffected by it. Just as possible to do that as it ever was. I happen to LIKE the Cicatrix, but the only Campaign book I bought this edition was Tyrannic War; when I saw how little rules content it included compared to 9th ed Campaign books, I decided they weren't worth my money, because rules are what I personally want out of a campaign book. The only BL book I've bought in YEARS is Adrian Tchaikovsky's Day of Ascension. I was no more forced to consume serialized books than I ever have been. They exist, but I choose whether or not to use them, just like I've been doing since '89. Conceptually, I like Ynarri, though I think it's ridiculous that either Yvraine or the Visarch must be in every Ynarri army, so I'm choosing to ignore that stupid rule. If an opponent has a hard time with that, I'll just use a different army in battles with them. I've been doing THAT since '89 too. I do know that it is possible to run into conflicts with other players about what is/ is not appropriate based on lore- if I'm fighting a battle outside the Pariah Nexus using Inquisitor Draxus during a time when she's SUPPOSED to be in the Pariah Nexus, some folks MIGHT call me out on that... But it's rare. Speaking of Draxus, some people will even let me attach her to a unit of Aeldari Rangers to represent her Radical tendencies... that's not permitted by the rules either, but it ain't going to stop me from doing it in a battle where my opponent is cool with it, and it never has. Whether setting or story, the galaxy is still big enough to use the parts of the lore you like and ignore the parts you don't. If you and your opponent don't agree, it's usually simple enough to find a compromise.

For me, it was mostly the promise of plastic Sisters and the return of the GSC... But Gathering Storm WAS a hook- I though Uvraine and the Ynarri were soooo cool. I still think they are BTW, but I wish GW would grow them a bit- create an actual Ynarri battleline unit and a generic HQ. But see, that kinda requires advancing the story, right? It would mean that the Ynarri had grown to the point where they were fighting on too many fronts for one of the triad of characters to ALWAYS be the Warlord. The appearance of the new Blackstone Fortress beyond the Western Fringe of Pacificus was another huge hook for me. And again, the Torchbearer Fleet Crusade rules are some of the best damn rules writing GW has ever done, and absolutely would not be possible without the Primaris event that so many other people have said they hate. Especially since the Torchbearer Lore facilitated greater and more widespread use of the SoS- another supercool plot development. New and emerging Lore was required to bring the Votann back into the fray as well, right? They ARE the Squats... but quite a lot of stuff has happened since those early encounters where the secrets of the Votann were unknown. Respectfully @Captain Idaho, I think talking about what YOU do and don't like is absolutely cool, but you're probably going to run into problems when you try to tell people you don't know and have never met what THEY do and don't like. Ain't trying to pick a fight or anything... But speaking for others is a tricky business.

You are a super hero- thank you so much!

I'm not going to wade into the extended conversation you guys are having, but I wanted to share a tangent about my favourite female Samurai, and one of my personal heroes, Tomoe Gozen. It's a tangent, so I'm putting it in a spoiler.

I'm not sure when the Legends card for Inquisitor Karamazov disappeared, but it's not in the Faction Pack for Imperial Agents. This wouldn't normally be a problem- I've been downloading and saving EVERYTHING for the entire edition, because I know GW wipes out everything when they do updates (We've always been at war with Oceania). Unfortunately, my laptop short circuited a week and a half ago. We're working on extracting the hard drive to see if any data can be salvaged. If the effort is successful, I will post the card here for the benefit of other Fraters. But I thought I'd ask if anyone else has kept the old 10th edition Legends indexes, because I know Karamazov had a card when the 10th edition dropped.

Perpetuals are one of the things that convinces me that my worldview regarding the definition of fluff. For me, BL is not and has never been fluff- it's fanfic... Unless it directly intersects with the actual game. Perpetuals don't exist in game, therefore they are not "real." Other people will have different attitudes, and that's fine. But not considering BL to be fluff, I think, makes me much happier.

Agree that Urien and Grotesques are almost a guarantee. But I actually have more faith in Beasts than the Court. The Court's role has been taken by the Hand; there's no real reason for the Court to exist (other than being cool!). This especially apparent with the Disciple of Yaelindra specialist, who is a clear replacement for the Lhamaean. Part of me hopes they do not update Kabalites, Wyches or Wracks. I'm afraid of scale creep, of disappearing options, of complex assembly and a loss of cross-kit compatibility. None of those things are guaranteed to happen with a new kit, but none of them are guaranteed not to happen either.

This thread isn't really a place to push back against other people's suggestions, so I don't want go to far, but.... @GSCUprising As a lifelong GSC player, you suggestion would fluff-nerf the GSC out of existence. What makes a cult take root is the Kiss, and the reason it has to be that way is that Purestrains are common. Magi and Patriarchs aren't common enough that you can randomly scatter 200 of them in units of five throughout the systems in a sector or the planets of a system in the hopes that some will take root. It's like saying that a fish should lay one egg instead of hundreds, or that a plant should produce only one seed per season. It's not a biological vector that would lead to success. In my headcanon, a Broodlord is just a Patriarch that is within range of the Hivemind, supressing its capacity for independent thought and action, but MAGI are a product of the Hyrbidization process- Tyranid genepools do not create MAGI. A process, by the way, which doesn't happen without the Kiss. A psychic power that makes your babies be born half alien feels WAY more hokus-pocus and silly than an infection altering the DNA of a Host species. Now, if what you are arguing is that you think severing the connection back to Tyranids and removing the Hybridized brood cycle from GSC fluff, that's a thing that would be possible. It would create an entirely new faction that uses GSC models and lights three decades of precedent on fire, but it would be possible. A hive fleet dispersing hundreds of Patriarchs as vanguards in the hopes that one or two of them might grow up to be cults? Yeah... Not really possible. @Zoatibix Can we fix Ynarri rather than cut them? GW didn't use them as they should have- they should have been our gateway to Exodites and an expanded Corsair collection. When the Ynarri appeared, I believed that was their "purpose" - to bring isolated elements of the Aeldari race together, giving them a reason to participate in wider galactic events where none previously existed. Exodites aren't going to leave their worlds to fight anywhere else. Ever. If they did, they wouldn't BE Exodites. But if a prophet comes, and convinces SOME of the Exodites that Ynnead's return code lead to the RESTORATION of corrupted Maidenworlds, rather than the mere preservation of those few that remain, well suddenly it makes sense. See, I think you USE Ynarri to build other Aeldari armies. We can't release an Exodite army this year, because Dark Mech cross promotes with Heresy and LI, so the Board of Directors feels they are a better investment for shareholders. Ditto on Corairs. But waht we CAN do is realease a named/ generic dual build leader, a Kill Team that serves as a Dual unit in 40k for both factions, along with an aircraft Transport/ Gunboat dual build for Corsairs and a Mounted Dino ranged/ melee dual build for Exodites. Call'em all Ynarri this edition, create White Dwarf lists for a PURE version of each army to start building the customer base, and then in the following edition, expand the range of whichever Ynarri units sold best. Then, when the dream of Ynnead's resurrection fades - as it must; it was always going to come down to either Ynarri OR Slaanesh, because both can't coexist forever- Yvraine and the Visarch have a new home faction they can join.

I, on the other hand, love downloading only one thing instead of three.

People are allowed to make whatever they want. It's the selling of it that gets them in trouble.

So I don't have a lot of dogs in this fight- this is going to be a thread of strong opinions, and I can see how it might escalate... So I'm not likely to check back in often. I also didn't read all six pages, so someone's probably already said everything I'm about to say. 40k has been a part of my life since I was 16 years old, and I'm 52 right now. They built an empire, and they cornered the market, and they are the most successful miniature company of all time, full stop. It took lots of very hard work, lots of luck, lots of investment and there are people who have literally given the better part of their lives to make that happen. They recognize their place in their county's economy, and they are pretty damn loyal to it. The "maker" movement and proliferation of platforming has changed the way the world works... And we can argue about whether that's good or bad, because there are both pros and cons to it. It democatizes creativity in a way that gives everyone with skills and willpower the ability to succeed... Which is incedibly liberating. But the thing I love about GW is that in another 20 years, they'll still be here, because their "old school" business model required them to build infrastructure that has since become part of an institution. People talk about all the games that are better than GW, and I won't dispute it, but my response is still the same: I'm using models in games today that I bought in 92, and in 2037, I expect to still be using them alongside the models I plan to buy next week and the models I buy in 2036. Ghamak, by then, will be long gone and forgotten, replaced by the next "cutting edge" fella with a printer, a kickstarter, and social media skills because he never had to build an institution to do what he does. And the hotshot with the 3d printer that replaces him will be replaced 3 years after that. And the entire industry will be just kickstarters and printers and social media platforms- all flash in the pan stuff that looks great at the time but creates no legacy, history or lasting value and leaves behind no trace. Just like record "Albums" are a lost artform because the world is now just samplers hopped up on autotune and AI trying to get one song to go viral on socials so it sells on itunes so they can make money and disappear from history leaving behind nothing of lasting value. And the thing is, if GW hadn't spent 36 years, millions of dollars in investment capital and employed THOUSANDS of people from artists to sculptors to retailers to webdesigners to writers, Ghamak and all the other folks that have generated income off their backs- the videogame companies, animators, content creators would never have made a dime. The models are okay, and the fact that you all know who Ghamak is means he's probably made enough money to pay his own legal bills, but he'd much rather you pay them for him, so once again, crowd source... Yay! Another platform. Shock the Algorithms on the socials, push it out, play the "everyman v. evil corp" outrage loop while GW pay their own legal bills, build more factories, employ more Brits, create new careers for emerging novelists, illustrators and license more content so that companies like Joy Toy can become successful businesses in their own right. Ask any of THEIR employees whose side they're on in GW v Ghamak. And don't get me wrong: I wanted to buy some W Artel Grotesques when GW chose not to make them in plastic this edition.... But of course, GW removed them from the dex... Likely because they KNEW that I and others like me would buy Artel's Grotesques (or the Raging Heroes Knock-offs, or the Ghamak Knock-offs, or Knock-offs by any of a dozen other start-ups, kickstarters or makers. And yeah, I was upset about that at first and put ALL the blame for it on GW, but would they have pulled the card from the dex if all of these "disruptors" weren't waiting in the wings to make a buck off the infrastructure GW spent four decades building and the backs of the thousands of people that GW and their legitimate licensees employ? It's not a simple issue. There are valid arguments on both sides. I'm gonna back the guys who have been with me for 36 years in hopes that my support will help them be here in another twenty. Because IF GW falls? So do all the companies that rely on their licensing and everyone employed by any of those companies. I know I'm an old Grognard screaming at teenagers to get off my lawn and lamenting the loss of a business model that has ceased to exist... But in doing a bit of research, I came across that May 2025 announcement that GW was giving 20 million GBP back to their employees as a bonus and I put that up against Ghamak asking other people to pay his legal bills and had to ask myself who I thought was more selfish and entitled.

I wanted to wait a while and give the post time to breathe- I'm the guy who joined the club, and the comments I posted there explained my limitations to my participation. I run a club of my own, and some of the ideas being posted there are things I've been working on since the beginning of 8th, and the seeds of that work were actually planted in the Halcyon days of 2008! So my advice @Kaede45, is that this stuff takes time. Now, there have been community projects on B&C that were VERY focused, and achieved their stated goals on a much shorter timeline... But those projects had tighter parameters and a narrower scope. I see your club as being more of a passion project that evolves over time, and has a loose structure that allows it to include conflicting ideas from which folks can pick and choose the pieces they incorporate and the pieces they leave behind. It's possible that someone will create and post the backstory for a single Primarch and their Chapter that makes me interested in Marines other than those who have, to varying degrees beased on edition, been defined as Chambers Militant Inquisition. And if that happens, I could easily become more than a spectator who offers moral support. Heck, maybe my contribution could just be something that ports Greyknights and Deathwatch into the Heresy era. Or, like, maybe I'm the guy who just adds Orks and Eldar to the Heresy era to fix the horrible mistake that GW made when they chose to exclude those factions from it. But to me, your project seemed like its timeline would be measured in years, not months. So don't rush it, and don't sweat it. I've been playing 40k since '89, and I suspect I'll still be here in another decade. I've refused to let the exclusion of Court and Beast units from the 10th ed Drukhari dex force me to rage quit, but there's a lot riding on the 11th ed treatment of Drukhari. But what my break from the game for 6th and 7th editions taught me is that while my participation may wax and wain, the game itself isn't going anywhere. I quit because GW did Sisters dirty not to terribly wrong after doing GSC even dirtier. And when GW woke up, realized the error of their ways, and remedied the situation, I came back. And if all of the Court, Beast and Grotesque units stay gone in 11th, I will punish GW again by removing my dollars from the hobby, and eventually GW will come crawling back to me once they realize the mistakes they've made. But I will still be here, watching and waiting for them to get it right again... Only to screw it up again four editions later and force another rage quit, because THAT'S the cycle. You may not get a post in the club for a month, a year.... And you might not feel the desire to post there either... Until you do, and then you might pick up 4 new members in a matter of months, go through a "Golden Age" that sees MASSIVE deleopment for a year... Only to fade again. I will STILL be there. Will you?

I played my third Boarding Action game with my Drukhari Spacelane Raiders Crusade army vs. Blood Ravens Space Marines. Fabulous game, excellent opponent and I managed to pull off my second win. It was also my first fight with the fully painted army. I'm adding all three games to the ...Meanwhile in Commorragh... post over in the Crusade Club. So far, I've added the narrative that supports all of my planned Boarding Action games, and the narrative and post-game results of the first battle. I should be able to post the details for battles two and three tomorrow, and I might even have some pics of the Stadium Seating for my Wych Cult Arena terrain which I started building on Sunday.