Codex Grey

Interesting. To clarify, what do you mean by bead up? And by running off the surface, does it settle in the recesses? My wishful thinking: Use Tamiya primer as an alternative primer for when I want to apply an all over wash that runs mostly into the recesses, to achieve a quick white with recess shading and little to no staining on the white surfaces. Would this be viable, or is am I missing something?

Thanks, Lysimachus! You're not wrong, and the thought has occurred to me, but several other things made me land on the 8th. (Warning: Long and possibly uninteresting explanation) The symbols came first, and my goal was to use the standard Codex Astartes symbols and colors for companies as a starting point, but then add a bit of knightly heraldic flare to them. I did consider changing up the base colors and symbols, but that felt both like an unnecessary Codex deviation and a cop-out for my self-imposed challenge. The only one I changed was the first company, but the first company are the veterans, the special boys who often get special treatment in many Chapters, so giving them the flame symbol felt justified. Also, the added blue works well with the color scheme, and the blue of the 9th Company has always been a more light or cyan blue to me. So the challenge was to use the standard symbols as a creative framework. Then, even though I renamed them from Heralds of Light, light is still an important thematic element to the Chapter. So I wanted to incorporate sources of light into the company symbol as much as possible. For some companies, this came to me fairly quickly, like the 3rd company's diagonal red stripe made me think of a red comet or falling star/meteor streaking across the night sky, and since meteors have historically been symbolically tied to swords, done. The top halved green field of the 4th reminded me of aurora borealis. The diagonal halved grey field, however, did not remind me of anything for some time, until I thought of the black half as the silhouetted side of mountain, and the grey as the morning mist or lingering smoke of a battlefield lit by the rising sun. Then came the names, and Dawn Riders seemed like the perfect fit for a Assault Reserve Company, who I assume ride plenty of bikes as well, even if the 'Riders' part of the name doesn't have to be literal. Besides, the 6th and 7th are primarily Tactical Reserves, and within the Vigilant Fists they also share the responsibility of overseeing Chapter's various starbeacons, which I wanted to incorporate into their symbols as well. Okay, I'm done now. Thanks for reading.

And here's my attempt, in the same style as my Heraldry pages. Changed some minor aspects of the Company Words, and also the name of the 1st Company from Flame Keepers to Knights of the Flame. Still not a 100% sure about the 1st Company words. Might change that and other details later, but I'm happy for now. Most of the numbers were pulled from out of thin air and old Ultramarines Org. charts. If a number seems right, then it's intentional, if one seems too high then the Chapter's Combat Doctrine requires it, and if a number is too low it's because they still haven't recovered completely after loosing their homeworld

I've been thinking about creating a more comprehensive overview of the Chapter's Organization, including names of key leaders and a visual presentation of the information. As part of this, because it's fun, I've been trying to come up with words/mottos for each Company, sayings that represent their individual duties, identities and the Chapter as a whole. Here's what I have so far: 1st Veteran Company(Master of the Keep) - Flame Keepers The Flame Burns Eternal 2nd Battle Company (Master of the Watch) - Radiant Ramparts We are the Wardens, We are the Walls 3rd Battle Company (Master of the Arsenal) - Blazing Blades By Our Blades the Night Ends 4th Battle Company (Master of the Fleet) - Ardent Arrows None Defy Us, None Escape Us 5th Battle Company (Master of the Marches) - Shining Shields Death Before Defeat 6th Reserve Company (Master of Rites) - Beacon Guard Never Flinch 7th Reserve Company (Chief Victualler) - Astral Watch Never Blink 8th Reserve Company (Lord Excecutioner) - Dawn Riders For Another Day! 9th Reserve Company (Master of Relics) - Storm Callers The Storm Answers to Us 10th Scout Company (Master of Recruits and Reconnaissance) - Moon Rangers From the Shadows, Light I think I'm happy with most of these, though the Astral Watch's Never Blink is both similar and weaker than the 6th's Never Flinch. The idea was to have something similar, almost as a rivalry between the two, but I'm not sure and I'm struggling to come up with an alternative for the 7th. I also think the 1st's could be stronger and I might change some around. I'm open for suggestions. EDIT: Also also, while I quite like By Our Blades the Night Ends, it might work better thematically for the 8th, the Dawn Riders. Maybe I could use something similar to what I had in mind for the Chapter Motto for the 3rd instead. Another attempt with a few changes below: Chapter - Death Before Defeat 1st Flame Keepers - The Flame Burns Eternal 2nd Radiant Ramparts - We are the Wardens, We are the Walls 3rd Blazing Blades - Armed with His Light 4th Ardent Arrows - None Defy Us, None Escape Us 5th Shining Shields - The Line is Drawn at Our Feet 6th Beacon Guard - Never Flinch, Never Falter, Never Fail 7th Astral Watch - From Stars to Stars 8th Dawn Riders - Night Ends by Our Blades 9th Storm Callers - The Storm Answers to Us 10th Moon Rangers - In Darkness, Light Shines Brighter

Based on how you clarified their beliefs and methods, (less vocal more subtle, if understand correctly) maybe it would still be in their best interest to have agents on the inside of the AdMech? Aside from that, another thing to keep in mind is personnel, because as far as I'm aware, a large part of Space Marine ship crews for example are usually affiliated with nd trained by the AdMech. Even though I don't personally ascribe the Salamanders' traits to their geneseed, choosing them because you like them is as good a reason as any! I think I misinterpreted the use of the word CLAIM, as something they proclaimed often and loudly. Anyways, I like your more subtle angle on how their beliefs manifest. Convincing others behind closed doors about their perceived purpose and mandate might even work at times, though I'd be careful about sniffing around Calth. I think the boys in blue would be hard to persuade. Also, is this what you had in mind for their color scheme? You didn't mention chest eagle or bolter casings so just used white and black. Edit: I know you mentioned they use Heresy era armour exclusively, so maybe chest eagle color is less relevant, but I just wanted se how they looked. BTW, any thoughts on a symbol?

Maybe Grav Bikes? Small chance, I think, but hear me out. Suboden Khan just came out with one, and we've all been wondering if a unit of grav bike riders are coming too at some point. 9th edition box had outriders, which are similar in size. Then consider Valrak's rumor of a new Speeder in the box. Rumours often turn into a game of telephone, like when Valrak mentioned the Dark Angels were not getting a new Ezekiel, but a unit of Ezekiel lookalikes that weren't librarians. That rumor sounded really strange, but looking back on it, you can see how someone would look at the Inner Circle companions and describe them as Ezekiel lookalikes. So maybe this new speeder isn't actually a speeder, but a grav bike? Or multiple?

Hey there! Welcome to the forum. I like the idea behind these guys, their worship of tech and how that affects other views and practices, like their distain for the AdMech. Some thought, questions and nitpicks: It would be interesting to hear more about how they maintain a strained relationship with the AdMech and still manage to exist as a functioning Chapter, seeing how most Chapters have to depend on the AdMech to some degree. It's interesting that they claim to be Salamanders successors and was given a task by the High Lords themselves. Firstsly, it is said there are no known Salamanders successors between the first founding and the latest Ultima founding. Doesn't mean there are none, but something to keep in mind. However, if they are successors as they claim, I assume the Salamanders had nothing to do with their creation or training? If so, why was their gene-seed selected? Why did the High Lords, if they were the one behind their creation, choose the Salamanders? I guess they would want to harness a technologically gifted Chapter, without the ties to the AdMech like the Iron Hands, but if the Chapter was not trained in the ways of their parent Chapter, by their parent Chapter, then did the High Lords think the Salamanders geneseed was somehow more technologically inclined than others, biologically? And why does the Salamanders not know of them, if they openly claim to descend from the Salamanders? Secondly, I find it strange that they openly claim their purpose was given to them by the High Lords, but the High Lords remain silent and there is no evidence. If the High Lords did play a part, it seems like they would want to keep this quiet, so why do the Sentinels claim it so openly? And why do the High Lord allow it? Maybe I'm missing something or misreading things, but in any case, I think these questions could easily be worked out in a way that doesn't take away from the core idea. For example, do they need to be Salamanders successors at all?

Lovely effect on the white! As for the icon, it's for Fire Support units. Buuuuut, you could say it's for a specific campaign where the Chapter mixed up their icons to confuse the enemy. I believe this strategy is recommended in the lore anyways, probably put there by the designers to allow for "mistakes" or for people to just to do want they want :) Sternguard Veterans in Gravis Armor for the full title? Anyways, looks solid.

After much rumination, I've decided to change the name of this Chapter from the Heralds of Light to the Vigilant Fists. Maybe nobody cares, but in case you do here's my thoughts on the matter. I've never been satisfied with the name, or any of the names they use to have. As the latest attempt to come up with a name that represents who they are, sounds cool (at least to me) and is reasonably distinct from other names, Heralds of Light checked those boxes for me for a while. Now they don't anymore. A core part of the Chapter's identity is their defensive flavor. They don't always defend, but do so more often than most other Chapters, in large part because of their role in watching over the Eye of Terror. Being a herald means bringing something from one place to somewhere else, which feels more aggressive than defensive. Vigilant Fists, on the other hand, marries the defensively coded concept of vigilance, which perfectly fits with their duties, with the symbol of a fist, a very aggressive concept, thereby creating a nice balance between the two. I still like the name Heralds of Light, but after some time I come to find it a bit unwieldy, and there is something about Of Light I'm just not that into anymore, which I can't quite explain. I quite like how Vigilant Fists sounds though. It feels more classic somehow. Heralds of Light might be the more distinct of the two, but that on its own is not enough for me, and I do think Vigilant Fists is distinct enough while also adhering to and honoring the naming-conventions of their two main predecessors in the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists. The reason why I haven't changed the name before now is partly because I had yet to come up with an alternative I liked, but also because part of me didn't want to change something that has existed "out there" online for some time, including through various B&C channels. Still, I don't think that should stop me from changing an aspect of my own Chapter.

@N1SB Thanks so much for such a thorough run-down of your thoughts! I think I agree with pretty much everything you've said, which will make it quite useful as a reference for when I actually sit down and write. I especially appreciate your language suggestions. Not really. It was more an additional element, alongside their Codex being a divergent copy, to highlight the flaws in their beliefs. But I do like how your suggestion makes the whole work better, and the Codex being a divergent copy is enough on its own to sell the idea.

They would definitely fall under the "Different groups have different rules" rule. And when it comes to the Inquisition, I think it would be in their best interest to form a good working relationship with local Ordo Hereticus members. (guest speakers at the Great Forum?) Perhaps they have stepped on their toes from time to time over the thousand of years they have been operational, but in general I think they would get along just fine. However, if that is the case, the local Ordo branch would either have to be fully in support of their current hardline approach, or have no real way to oppose them. I don't know if they really have one big problem, just multiple generic problems, like most Imperial forces in Nihilus. I have never played a game in my life and probably never will (maybe kill team at some point). I write because I enjoy it, so the lore usually comes first. However, I do like thinking about how I would represent my written creations, but when it comes to the Abolishers, a slight overrepresentation of heavy fire support units is really all I envision. Good points. I'll try to address all of them to some degree in the article. In regards to primaris vs. firstborn, I think it would depend on the result of the debates in the Great Forum. I was thinking those debates are still raging, so maybe the firstborn formation are the only ones being used for the moment. EDIT: Here's an updated version of the scheme with symbols and company colors on shoulder trims. I went for 5th company since, apart from the 1st company white, I think the simplicity of black looks the best. I'm keeping the helmet white for all companies as part of the base scheme.

@Felix Antipodes You're right. I think for simplicity's sake, I'm just calling them Abolishers for now. I was actually just thinking about this, about how they would react to the deviant Dante being their Superior commander. But I like your suggest of keeping them at a distance. That way, even if word finally got to them that Dante was given command of Nihilus, it wouldn't change too much. They can grumble from a distance and focus on the mountain of problems they have to deal with in their own region. Thanks. I'll keep it for now, unless something else comes to me. That being said, in regards to the Colors Scheme, I think I may reserve the scheme for Veterans only, as I want to give the superficial impression of a Codex Compliant Chapter, and sticking to the Ultramarines way of denoting companies by should trim color seems like the way to go. I might keep the universal white helmets though. --- Thanks for all the input so far! Based on the ideas and discussions, here's an updated outline which I hope captures what I'm going for in a way that makes sense. I'll be sticking to a version of the standard Index Astartes articles, as that is my preference. And I see no reason to deviate ABOLISHERS Motto: Strength from Unity - Unity from Uniformity Origins: - Fairly early founding, leaving room for development of beliefs. Somewhere between 6th and 20th. Perhaps unknown exactly which. Unsure. - Trained by a veteran cadre from the White Consuls, bringing with them knowledge and OPINIONS on governance. - They vow to stamp out heresy in all its forms and to strengthen the Imperium from within. - Initial crusade last a long time before taking a homeworld. Homeworld: - Helps joint Imperial effort to strike down secessionist government on [World Name], a civilized world in the Ultima Segmentum. - They succeed, then leave, but come back on their own when another rebellion springs up on the planet shortly after the first one. - Abolishers take drastic measures to end the rebellion, and to ensure that the world never turns again, they take the world as their own and set up a new world order. - It is here that the Chapter constructs its great Forum. (name?) - As they continue to fight for the Imperium, debates rage for centuries within the forum, about strength, unity, divergence, interpretations of the Codex, etc.. - Eventually, a set of precieved truths and interpretations of the Codex solidify, and the forum slowly turns from a place of open discussion to an echo chamber. - The introduction of Primaris into their ranks has shaken up several of their strongly held opinions and the forum has become revitalized. Beliefs: - Believe in strengthening the Imperium from within, not just destroying external threats. - Believe heresy and weakness stems from divergence. - Have defined an array of rules and guidelines for what constitutes divergence, way beyond the Codex and Space Marine Chapters. - See Astartes and Chapters as different from regular humans and institutions, with a different set of rules for each group, including religious beliefs. - While they do not venerate the Emperor as a god, as most Chapters do not, they have come to venerate the Codex as a holy text. Organization: - Their abhorrence of divergence includes any organizational irregularities, resulting in a strict adherence to the guidelines of the Codex Astartes, as if their Primarch's words were divine law. - However, unbeknownst to the Chapter, their version of the Codex, preserved and protected within the lower vaults of the Great Forum, is itself a flawed copy of the original tome. A divergence. - Exactly how this divergence in their Codex manifests itself I'm still unsure of. It would have to be subtle enough. Maybe its just their overreliance of firepower? Combat Doctrine: - While they strive to uphold the virtues of adaptability on the battlefield as the Codex dictates, they still rely more often than not on superior firepower. - This ties into their goals of not only defeating their foes, but to eradicate any trace of the heresy that led their enemies to fall in the first place. - Treat human enemies with the same hatred as they have for xnenos, perhaps even more. - Since the Great Rift appeared, their judgement has been rendered more freely and frequently. Geneseed: - Mostly stable and pure, yet some minor degradations have occurred over the years. - These flaws are not considered a problem and the Chapter prefer to ignore them, and with the introduction Primaris technology, these flaws have been corrected and quietly struck from the records. Personality Quirks: - Cordial and quick to praise the achievements of other, yet equally quick to point out divergence where they see it. - Have petitioned the High Lords of Terra more than once to sanction allies for divergent conduct. Additional notes and thoughts: - Perhaps their methods in the Dark Imperium is pushing them to become Heretics themselves. - What role could the Adeptus Arbites have in their history and methods? Should they have a role? - What effect does the Primaris perspective have on their beliefs, if any? I would prefer to somehow justify that they don't temper their more extreme ways, as that woudl water down their whole shtick.

Though I like the suggestion, I'm unsure. On one hand, space marines tend to be very proud about things such as their name, and it doesn't feel like this Chapter would simply adopt a nickname given to them by their enemies or less-than-friendly allies. It feels more like something they would choose themselves, though I may be convinced otherwise. I also want to call the article what they call themselves. On the other hand, this could play into the development of their beliefs and their reputation over time. Perhaps they embraced the nickname after someone argued for it in the great forum (They call us Abolishers. I say, that is exactly what we are!) or after the Great Rift appeared. It could also hint at a coming fall from grace, similar to the Fire Claws/Relictors. They are for all intents and purposes loyal, currently, but if someone like Roboute Guilliman got wind of how freely they render their judgement in the Dark Imperium, they might get slapped hard on the wrist. Or worse. But I'm unsure. I would also need another name for them. Exactly. Cue Judge Dredd music. Hmm, maybe there could/should be some tie-in with the Arbites?

Here's a question: Which side of the rift should be their home turf? Right now, I'm thinking they should be on the dark side, so that they are now freer than ever to render their judgement on others, abolishing any sign of secession and feel more justified for doing so. Yup, this is essentially where my ideas where headed as well. Thanks!