Grey Hunter Ydalir

Sometimes, sometimes the fever dream... well, isn't a dream.

I love the Knights Hospitaller, they've always espoused a military ideal I've found myself attached to. While I haven't ever delved as highly into the history of the order as I have with other subjects, let's just say that any time I am able to in any historical game play as or utilize the Hospitallers, I most certainly do. Emphasis mine, I feel like this needs to be condensed, rejigged or punctuated differently, as it stands it feels like one big sentence that repeats itself, even though technically it doesn't. That just stood out to me on first reading.

Copy that, it's no worries. I was hoping there was still a local source, or a new one. I simply don't like Lexicanum or WH40K Wiki as sites to visit, while I love the B&C. In any case thanks for that, I appreciate the help Tyler.

Is there an updated Timeline? The target for the link is missing, I'm assuming after the forum update. Apologies for the hassle. I always preferred the timeline here to most others I could find.

It seems do depend on the founding and/or the Chapter. Some seems to be created with a name, colour and homeworld already decided, while others are just a number and are told to go out crusading, or to find a planet that would be fitting as their recruitment and homeworld, and along the line they decide on a name and a colour based on what they experience Fair enough. It just seems strange to not even have so much as a colour, symbol and/or callsign to go with. Otherwise they'd be relatively hard to identify and track, as well as attribute victories and credit to for their actions taken.

Well, this is unusual for you! Doesn't a Chapter get named and coloured before they're formally deployed? Or have I fallen behind or missed something? If they're still 18th founding, they're definitely not any of Girlyman's greyshields. Forgive me but do you mean Shattered? This is great. However, does it bring them into conflict with anyone? That's always the thing I'm interested in. While this is awesome, the Dark Eldar prefer not to engage a hard target if they can avoid it and the Astartes are one of the few forces in the galaxy that can give back what they get when fighting the dark kin. Would the Kabal seek easier territory? Would it make more sense for the Champions to be tracking them as they keep moving their preying grounds? Thematically I prefer your story but I thought I'd offer a logical alternative. The only other thing I'd say would be to point out how the Kabal now has a bit of a b***r for the champions. Would the Kabal leave them 'messages'?

IIRC, the Contemptor's assault cannon has different stats, meaning despite the similar appearance, it may be as different from the M40 assault cannon as the laser destroyer array is from the quad lascannon. I'd say it's more of an issue of scale than mechanics. There's only so many ways a rotary cannon can operate after all, with the largest difference coming from the differing mechanics of barrel rotation, from hand-cranked to modern electric motors, though there have been some gas-operated designs have been created, so far as I'm aware the electric motor-driven system is prevalent. I don't think the Assault Cannon utilized by Astartes on foot is the difference between a Minigun and Rotary Cannon that we see today between (barely) foot or ground vehicle mounted weaponry, and the larger variants mounted on ships and aircraft. Given the stability and relative mobility of the Terminator suit, and the size, it'd be a downsized cannon and have similar operating principles. But that's just me, personally.

I think Bjorn has some good thoughts here, and I tend to agree. I'd perhaps spell out where the chapter has forged some tenuous alliances with individual, perhaps minor forge-worlds or even individual manufactorums on non-ad-mech worlds. This would reinforce even more the fact that they will use what is available, and what is available might not be what they truly want or need. Like having to roll with 'demolition' infantry to break fortifications instead of using Vindicators because they simply don't have enough, or any, to be deployed for example. Or being forced to rely on Imperial Navy or Imperial Guard air power to deploy what jump-pack infantry they have, as all their Thunderhawks they can field are busy deploying less-mobile divisions. Perhaps they deploy in drop-pod assaults more than necessary or needed simply because Drop Pods are relatively easy to use, produce, repair and replace. This could easily also be explained by them spurning some of the Mechanicus most proud works for the Astartes, like the Assault Cannon, and even more so for Cawl's work, which would win them no favours with a Cawl-positive crowd following Guilliman and Indomitus era events and Primaris introductions. As a quick aside, wasn't the Assault Cannon used on Contemptor dreadnoughts during the Great Crusade? How is it not a proven design by their own metrics?

I'm unsurprisingly with Ace on this one, I'll just quote "just because you can, does not mean that you should." While you can make the argument that the Imperium 'could' make use of them, what benefit does blue skin bring, besides a very obvious mutation to a very religiously charged, racially inflexible culture like that is present in the Imperium? They'd do no thing a regular human couldn't, and if they were too far beyond the template it might be problematic for integration with Geneseed. Even for the Salamanders who's radiation explanation is being thrown around, it's the geneseed that reacts with the radiation, not the human donor. Are they strong like Ogryns? No. Are they quick and dextrous like the Ratlings? Also no. It's not that it's not possible, it's more that hanging your hat on this and making it a front and center part of your IA is incredibly thin ice to walk on, as it supports nothing. To me this resembles the over-use of PC leanings that are absolute rubbish born out of social-constructionists. This has nothing to do with anything other than what fits the setting and what works as a true part of the defining character of a chapter. Pale skin doesn't make the Raven Guard or Charcharadons who they are, it's a tiny bit of visual diversity that sets them apart from their cousins, taking it away would not detract anything from the chapter's character, so how much is it truly worth? Other than as a narrative framing device for their descriptions in stories, nothing at all. You could say they had a blue 'tint' or 'hue' to their otherwise generic human skin tones which may or may not be exaggerated by the geneseed when it's implanted, but to say your recruits all look like the Blue Man Group I think in 40k is going too far, personally. Just how many calls for their eradication would they get just because they resemble the Tau? Sorry Lord Marshal, to derail your thread again, but I had to comment on this specifically. As an aside, I really like the colour scheme you've gone with. :tu:

But that's just it, make it a part of their 'culture' to reflect their inherently chimeric nature. They reflect back a lesser-version of the values of the chapter they are dealing with. If they parleyed with the Salamanders they'd show off their forge-work. Showing their interests to be the same, but while reinforcing how 'superior' their cousins are would allow them to have an advantageous position in terms of manipulating their cousins attitudes of them. So everyone thinks they follow a milder version of their own traditions, but seperately from one another, as it'd take multiple chapters putting their heads together to work out something wasn't right, which is not very likely.

I'll re-iterate, I dislike overt mentions of anything. I will say definitively in my opinion geneseed mixing and lost legion links are, if desired, best kept in the background and used as 'spice' to help the overall flavour of the chapter. It's seasoning that shouldn't replace a part of the main meal, which is something a lot of people tend to miss. I'm with Lunkhead here. Using the Deathwatch angle is great for showing personality and character, and how they interact with the character of other chapters, not so much for physical objects. Their service is essentially black operations, so any artifacts or objects would fall under the possession of the Inquisition, and I don't think they'd be swayed by something as inconsequential as proximity to a chapter homeworld get in the way of their mandate and to argue with the Inquisition over the actions of their chamber militant, especially when the chapters that are signed on to donate brethren also sign off on all the conditions required. I don't think they have a leg to stand on here, to be honest. It'd be down to a generous Inquisitor Lord signing something over to the chapter, though I don't know why they would, when it would benefit them more to simply keep them for use by the Inquisition/Deathwatch, and have no negative consequences at all, especially if a member of the chapter was on that particular Kill Team, they'd be sworn to silence just by their terms of service. If you want to throw around artifacts, keep the Inquisition out of it, unless you need to have conflict for some reason, but realize that it's walking on a knife-edge. Just look at the Celestial Lions, or even the reborn Primaris Soul Drinkers for an example, as well as the implied destroyed chapters that have broken their oaths of silence of the Deathwatch. Other than the maces since you know my opinion on relics from the Deathwatch, great concept. A small story like that can stand on it's own outside of the IA, or be a part of it, or just have a section of it used in the IA. It's up to you, but it's a good idea. And that's all I have for now, as I've got to get back to work. Sorry for the short reply, but I'll see if I can come back to this later and pick up where I left off.

I think you've done well capturing a 'knightly feel' for the chapter. I actually quite like the more objectively pointless elements of honour and duty that isn't as necessary on a modern battlefield and organisation, but is still done because 'knightly reasons'. In response to Bjorn, we can track where blood that has been donated goes, sometimes even globally. If you're telling me that there isn't an honour-roll for the chapter, for each company or hell, even for each squad nor a digital footprint for who the gene-seed has been taken from by the apothacarian, even if it's cataloguing is relegated to the chapters serfs, you're slightly mad. An army runs on good logistics, not sword swinging alone. Aside from that, Chivalric Knights themselves were in many cases required to learn other skills, including music, other languages, art and calligraphy as well as becoming literate. None of these things made them stronger in the use of their blade arm specifically, but it gave them perspective and experience that frames your use of your weapon. While Astartes are not the same, this chapter does come from Blood Angels stock, who themselves put a huge emphasis on artistic pursuits for their brethren. I do agree there needs to be more 'steeds' or bikes being used here, definitely needs more.

Ok Let's take a look. I think that's a good idea to exemplify how they interact with other chapters. If they act like Thrawn did when he was in the Imperial Military proper, it'd be an interesting point of friction. You could even have their unique mutations be commented on by other more 'puritan' Astartes members negatively, but that entirely depends on whether you want to include that kind of commentary in your work. Other than that a cultural example is great. Due to the nature of the Deathwatch and it's role, it'd be hard to have this kind of work be front and center when talking about the chapter, especially when the Deathwatch members are sworn to secrecy - which is slightly idiotic as an aside, considering the nature of the Astartes and their role in 40k - when returning to their chapters. You'd end up telling a Deathwatch story that had a member of your chapter in it, as opposed to the story of your chapter with a sidebar or commentary on one of it's brethren's time in the Deathwatch. Right out of the gate I'll state I'm not a fan of mixed geneseed. Things like this were traditionally only done during, for example, the cursed founding and most of those chapters met with unfortunate ends. It's heretical in the extreme outside of sanctioned events like that as well. Narratively speaking, it's got to be specifically tied to the makeup of the story of the chapter, like how the Soul Drinkers story is for a large part dominated by them not being who they thought they were, and the narrative springing from there. In any other respect it never feels necessary and in most cases simply feels like it's 'rule of cool', to try and make something unique without actually writing them to be so, relying on the crutch of something like 'mixed geneseed' or 'lost in the warp' or simply 'dark secrets', rather than actually writing something compelling. Don't get the cart before the horse. Write something that you think is a compelling story and see what springs from building that road, rather than dropping down a bunch of pretty statues and writing your way around them, forcing people to look at the statues rather than enjoying the drive on your road, if that makes sense. This also applies to the 'azure chimeras' which naming wise, feels a little bit on the nose, as well as the second legion links. It'd be better to have something like that subtly implied in passing, but never stated anywhere if you were going to do it. If it were me, I'd also cloak it in suspicions around the Alpha Legion. On this I'd ask Ace Debonair for some tidbits of advice, considering his Knights Oracular are back and are Alpha Legion Infiltrators Alpha Legion hunting specialists. This falls into the same camp as above. You're getting attached to particular individual golden bricks and expecting them to form key structural components of the wall that is your chapter, when they'd just crush under expansion. I'll explain. I think having a set of ideas for unique parts of the chapter are fine, but should be far, far less specific. Instead of this mini-story about a fellblade, just have one word "Archeotech" and leave it at that. When you begin writing any story, you should typically start with broad strokes. It's fine to have a concept in your head for it, but start developing that idea as broadly as possible. Example: I want to write a story about one of my Astartes. I begin with; a man is born, he lives, he dies. That's your basic beginning, middle and end. A story has to have those elements and while an IA is not a narrative story per-se, I view it as being the 'story' of your chapter. It covers their beginnings, how they're founded. Their middle years, their trials, tribulations and how they have been formed by these experiences. Finally their 'end' which is where you write your conclusion as to the character and state of the chapter and where they're poised to go as of the 'current' in stasis moment of the 40k timeline. As I develop his story I flesh it out with each successive pass. I'll add his name, his tribe or birthplace. Then briefly mention the trials he suffered to become an Astartes before moving on to his early career, before finally heading to his death, or where the story will leave him. If you keep developing that character long enough, you can pull a moment, battle, campaign, crisis or whatever you want from his life and you will have everything you need to write a story about it. You have his character, what challenges he's overcome and how that defines him. This is how video game, movie and narrative franchise 'bibles' are developed as well, even if some of those are more a collection of ideas and development from multiple authors along the way. Any time you dive too deep into hyper-specifics, you're getting the aforementioned cart before the horse. Your chapter is founded. Your chapter overcomes challenges put before them and it defines their character, and culture. Your chapter and it's status at the end of the current 40k timeline, including consequences of their actions and character set up before. Not sure about the crescents, I'd need to know more about the event, but Necron ships tend to be croissant sorry, crescent shaped in nature and I find it odd that a chapter would adopt the symbol of a xenos race they're fighting, even if it is just in ship aesthetics, unless the crescent existed in their symbology before hand. That said, a cataclysmic event based around the Necrons is really cool and fitting right in with current 40k lore. I'm not sure, you have to be extremely careful how you do this. Older and first or second founding chapters can get away with something similar, but their inherited equipment and infrastructure is far different to a newer chapters. You also need to think about the logistics of it. The larger the manufacturing presence you have, the more bodies you need to run it as well as materials needed to pump out production. Secondly, given the relatively low number of Astartes in a chapter, even with Guillimans new reforms, and the again relatively low attrition rate of Astartes in battle (think of the fact that most tactical marines are a hundred years old at least, as well as being the chapters backbone of fighting men), 'large' manufacturing facilities are fairly redundant. Astartes chapters need to have a measure of self-sufficiency, this is true. Let's compare this to the real world, while I know the scale is different and operationally things change because of that, but stick with me here. A special forces group will have armorers in tow, but they won't have any local gun-manufacturing as part of the unit, or even division as a whole. They will have some extremely capable and knowledgeable members, but not all of them know their weapons as well as you might think, despite them being very proficient with them. (Hell, Larry Vickers despite being as knowledgeable as he is has made a couple of asinine statements before regarding some firearms that he's been raked over the coals for, despite being a former Delta operator.) Given how small a unit is, they need to be provided with the ability to repair and refit their weapons and keep them working. Where an Astartes chapter differs is in scale, since they also have to maintain working operation of powered armour, small arms, void-craft, atmospheric craft, transports and landers, tanks and so on and so forth. This means their operation of scale for the good operation of all of their assets naturally increases and to take a link out of their logistical nightmare of a supply chain, being able to manufacture on a limited scale greatly offsets some of this dependence upon the Mechanicus. But just how much do you need to manufacture for your two to three-thousand strong special forces division? I know this is a bit of a rant, so my apologies for that, it's just I see this pop up a lot in 40k lore and fan projects like IA's. On the other side of the coin, I'd perhaps frame it as a Great Crusade era Astartes forge ship, and it's ability to manufacture is perhaps more efficient than modern forges, the alloys are stronger, the forging and milling tools more precise. It allows gear to be maintained to a higher standard than is possible with modern forges, but also gets you out of being a mary-sue with an ability to create your own GC era super-heavy tanks for your chapter out of the blue. I'd stay away from this. I personally don't see it happening on a few levels. Again you're delving into hyper-specifics, but that aside I think all suits of Gorgon armour are unique to the Iron Hands themselves, extremely closely guarded as a secret, considering a lot of what the Iron Hands have done/are doing is tech-heresy in the extreme. To round it out, it's not known so far as I'm aware if there are any suits left, since the majority of the suits were deployed with the Avernii Clan, which were wiped out at the Dropsite Massacre, though I could be wrong as Iron Hands lore isn't my strong-suit. Also, do you really want to make your chapter unique by taking something that's unique to another chapter? On top of that the Chiss as far as I'm aware aren't huge proponents of cyborgs or heavy use of cybernetics. Unless you're as talented and capable as Ace (most aren't, I'm certainly not, much as I might try), I'd stick to fleshing and rounding out this chapter first before jumping into anything else, as you'll end up doing both chapters a disservice when things inevitably change on both ends and it becomes a mess. By all means keep the idea around and even work on it a little as an overall concept, but wait till this one has some concrete foundations before you jump ship, at least in my opinion.

This concept is so horrifically alien to me that I think I might actually be descended from the III Legion. I am slowly getting better at it, though - I did submit a Chapter to the Tabula a few days ago, and might even forward it to the Showcase next time I have a day off. I'm also 99.99% certain nobody on this forum has ever thought of you as a Tyrannical force of Oppression, Lysimachus. It might blow everyone's mind, but I totally agree with Ace here. That's sarcasm, I usually tend to agree with him, funny as I'm generally unfriendly and he's friendly as hell. Lysimachus you are far from the tyrannical stereotype that is being discussed here. At that point in time the community standards were higher so rejecting a 'joke' chapter I think is fair play. Remember that fools seldom doubt themselves. The idiots of the world are perpetually sure of themselves and their actions and those who have a mark of intelligence are usually further down the path of low-self esteem, worth and doubting the quality of their own work. While it's good as someone who has a measure of authority to qualify our own decisions and reasonings, to second guess yourself this far down the line is nonesense. If you made a mistake, it's a teachable moment and you learn from it, making sure you take the right lessons away, and move forward. Luckily, it was the Red Bulls (I remember that chapter, bloody hell. I don't think I was particularly impressed either), and you didn't hurt someone, or worse allow someone else to be hurt as a result. I think you can safely sleep at night with that one. But I understand where you're coming from. We all do, I think. You're in good company.

Yes, it was definitely a supervision problem. That said, there were multiple efforts to curb the gatekeeping, and the guidance given was very clear. However, the guidance was met with considerable resistance each time. Hence the ultimate decision to shut the Librarium down. This was very much how the Librarium was supposed to work. As it is, this discussion points out the fact that there is considerably less feedback being given in DIY discussions. Given that, what pool would we draw potential article editors from? The current arrangement is much more