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I'm going to assume you have your own HQ choices in mind..... so looking at baseline Primaris units, I would go in this order: 1 squad of 5 Intercessors. 1 squad of 5 Heavy Intercessors Then into specialization.... IE: Hellblasters/Eradicators, etc.

I will be trying the new detachment and Suboden tomorrow. I have no idea what I will be playing against, but I am keeping my list very basic for the test. I don't think I'll take more than 6 bikes in total. I'm still working on several lists, nothing is set in stone except my typical Khan + 6 Bladeguard.

This is something I need to ask. Some of the 'shooting phase' abilities used to or maybe still do happen when shooting. I could have this wrong... Long story short, if I overwatch an opponent in his turn as usual, and a noise marine hits, does the Kakophonist's ability kick in (IE: the mortal wound function.) Or is this purely locked to my shooting phase only?

Okay I suppose. To be honest I think the Wolves codex is just really great with characters.... named or generic, their characters are great. Admittedly I think my list became kind of boring. I took a little break from Wolves as my lists were looking all the same. My lists got too elite, and too many characters, so I went the opposite way as mentioned and it worked fine, just a little boring. I guess I'm a sucker for characters!

I think so too. I kept thinking about that Sus1 enhancement and I think I'm going to put it on an LT or Apothecary either with or without Kosarro and put them with 10 Sternguard. I love my Sternguard but honestly outside of my Ultramarines, I haven't found a lot of good use case scenarios for them. This might be a great fit.

The new White Scars Spearpoint does look better than I thought it would. I remember being so disappointed when they kind of ripped them apart after 8th/9th ed. This looks really promising though. Stormswift onslaught: All Astartes eliglble to adv charge/fall back charge + Wrath of Khan (Suboden Khan 's unit) - after killing a unit can make a 6" move. (Including through walls/terrain.) Great enhancements, and his personal rules are pretty decent. The strats are so good (not OP, but just really good utility) that I think you're going to be CP starved.

I know the post is from Sept, but I just had to say I love those capes. I've been working on my basic CSM, and decided to dabble again in EC which lead me back to your thread. Awesome work as always. :)

No, you're right... I was thinking of Kosarro Khan. Weird though. I'm trying to think of another scenario with two named 'captains' on the table potentially in the same army.... Is that rare? Or am I missing something? My friends are bugging me about the bike actually 'unseating Sammael as having the worst looking bike in the imperium'. lol

So I've been super excited about the Khan on Bike coming out since it was rumoured. I've all but stashed my Scars away, awaiting some sort of buff, or something to make them useful again... I miss their old detachment (I still have their old supplements) but charging head first into Deathguard never really worked anyway! So then I read this new part: And I was a bit shocked, then I remembered they kind of did the same thing with the Raven Guard/Shrike. So is Jubal going to still be a valid model? Or does he get removed from the current, competitive rules? I'm also hoping for an actual new White Scar detachment. Finally, although hoping for a relic jetbike from ye olden days, I will take the Thunder (thanks to Cawl the space mechanic who never stops giving.) I actually do like this bike, as I've learned to accept that in Cawl's grimdark designed future everything is as aerodynamic as a Walmart. Looking forward to Subobden Khan!

Come out swinging.... Well they've hardly been out. We could say Thousand Sons took substantial nerfs in points... but some of those units were incredible and you were seeing 3 in many lists of certain units. I think one thing that is just not being addressed (other than Grey Hunters) is the Detachments. I'm personally sick of every single marine player (no matter the chapter) just trying to min-max the Gladius. I know GW tried a subtle 'nerf' to other chapters by removing the +1 to wound of Oath, however this is a very strong indicator that it doesn't matter. Fix Sagas. I think World Eaters will pick up a LOT of competitive band wagoneers! I think some of those may be Wolves players. If I were GW, I certainly would have waited a bit longer after Knight nerfs. (Wolves had some unique ways of dealing with them.) Anyway, I just came on to say I've reworked some of my lists. Basically this has forced me to pull the fun/fat out of the lists (except Grey Hunters because I'm super stubborn, and they're painted!) Back to multi-Headtakers , Predators, multi WGBL. Gone is Arjac, extra Termies, Ragnar, Iron Priest, and Ballistus from all lists.

Better in melee.... lol. Yea but they're still carrying toothpicks and in almost any case you know you're not relying on them for anything critical in melee. I think the Grey Hunter problem is a big issue. Points, sizing, function and rules. You just said it really, the common intercessor has a real role. Every time I make a list I want to pull the Grey Hunters. In my last... 6 games (?) give or take, they have been really disappointing. Bloodclaws are understandably a one shot, one and done, blunt object that might get some work done... pretty much as intended. But Grey Hunters are in a terrible spot. (So is Njal.) Maybe next time?

Great stuff. Yea the face sculpts are really good with the Wolves. You've done them great justice. Love the basework too!

I agree with your take. I don't think it's negative... it's basically facts. :) GW updated their app for ios yesterday and I reloaded my lists. I agree with you about Khârn being about the equivalent of Ragnar (though I can perceive of a list without Ragnar, but not without Khârn). Regardless, here's the part that gets me: All my Wolves 2K lists loaded up to about 2035 (give or take) All my World Eaters 2K lists loaded up to about 1975 (give or take). That doesn't seem right. My 8bound/X8bound just got very spicy. The rest got better except Spawn which were incredibly good/utilitarian. Wolves? Not only did the core Wolves units largely get hit, but all the auxiliary units did too. This is tough to swallow on top of (as you note) stuff like Grey Hunters didn't get a rules or points tweak - which let's be honest do not even make an appearance on top tables. This is flat wrong in my opinion. I use one squad of Grey Hunters just because it feels wrong to pull them out but they are definitely bringing down the competitive level of my lists... this is multiplied by being forced into 10. Funny thing is part of the reason I took Ballistus is for the foot print. A lot of tables are ugly in 10th... tons of little boxes on the table. I like the extra room in my zone. I stopped taking the Redemptors... I have to figure something out here... the point increase threatens to make my lists a little too small now. I like my Termies/elite units. I can see I may have to just cut headtakers to keep Termies, or vice versa, but both seem to be asking a bit much. It will be interesting to see what happens to our termies when the Assault variant get added to the vanilla codex along side their superior Oath. Maybe points come down for Wolves at that point? Overall this is rough. I'm thinking of bringing back vanilla marine units that I don't want to... scouts, intercessors... dump grey hunters and some elite units. Not sure yet.

Very nice Wispy. Love the cloak work on the priest. Where are you using him?

I'm a little surprised I haven't seen this posted yet. (Unless I missed it!) I've stolen this from Youtube just to get a summary for anyone that missed it: So first off I'm just going to say in my 'fun' list... that is to say not hyper competitive, I was running 3 TWC, Ragnar, and Arjac. This puts my fun list at + 35. Which I'm just going to say aside from Ragnar isn't making a lot of sense. I never felt my use of TWC was anything much beyond 'fluffy for Wolves". They were/are solid, and they kind of fit that niche of being a good army specific unit that was well priced. I guess people were mowing down opposition with multiple large squads. I wasn't doing this. I think Arjac is a miss. And I think they missed the opportunity to do something useful to Njal who probably remains the least used named character and is left that way after this update. The larger picture sees the Ballistus, and a few other units take a hit that probably sway people back to cheaper, alternatives. Just wondering what this has meant (if anything) to your lists?