Prot

Sounds good. As a side note one thing I did find out after searching a bit is that he has been thinking if he uses the -1 damage strat, he can invoke that rule, and I did find out that isn't possible since the rubric rule is only triggered by unmodified damage 1. Well I guess this just got a whole lot uglier for those of us in the group with a strong bolter presence! (This army is so oppressive to face with infantry.) Further to this: It's the order of operation that had me wondering. What he's doing is getting hit by -1 in cover. He uses cover to get back to a 3+, THEN invokes his detachment rule, getting to a 2+ save by combining the two rules. This was the part I was unsure of.

I don't have the Thousand Sons codex, and I forget the exact wording of the detachment that lets the player ignore AP if the damage is 1. The problem is that in our group we've been pretty much convinced it's not possible to increase a save from 3+ to 2+. (Typically this is by means of cover.) However the Thousand Sons player in this case is insistent that his detachment rule gets around this and he can get to a 2+ save with his standard Rubrics. Does this sound right?

This is exactly what I did with my one squad of Termies. The thing I've realized even when I played Dark Angels is the Termies aren't really potent enough to be a threat. They are essentially ablative wounds for the characters in my armies. I have rarely had the termies reach CC. This is usually because the character they are guarding is viewed as such a huge threat (even if that's not really the case.)

I'm very glad to here that Dan! Keep the pack rolling.

Just as a side note: I do like the idea of Shield/Hammer for the above reasons, but would also add that they do fit into a thematic 4+ invlun based army list... which is something Wolves can do quite easily I think.

Thanks so much! I can't tell you how motivating it is to hear this from the pack! Seriously, I appreciate it. Better than the box art? Lol, I don't think so but thanks again. The 'red eyes' was definitely a risk. I felt like it showed him enraged... a calm boiling kind of rage, and maybe to some degree this is partially fueled by the axe..... I'm glad you guys think it was a good decision. Grimnar was painted in mostly one piece... I say mostly because I did the axe separate, but I hated it, and I redid it to what you see now. Oh, for clarity I did paint him off of the base though. I super glued him to a generic base, and painted him on one of those GW "painting handles". It made getting to the undersides of the pelt so much easier. He was very labour intensive. I think most of the wolves are... it's all the bling... pelts, runes, gems... well I'm sure you know the routine! Thanks. Now onto the Terminators.

Thanks Beef. I think I received the box from out of province a bit late. (Of course it was sold out at GW in minutes.) So I think it was 3 weeks from build to table ready. It was a hard push but I really like to force myself to get through a bunch of troops and 'reward' myself with some cool characters, which of course the Wolves have a ton of. What's next... just finished Grimnar: Such a great model to work on!

So I have done one Wolves army in the last 5 years, and another one about 10 years ago. I never quite like how I painted them sometimes getting too clean, and a little too bright. I made myself a promise: I would allow myself to get the new stuff as long as I could finish painting the entire new boxset before the new models released. I barely did it..... I do like how this turned out... updates to come!

I'd assume these are 3 man units? I have to agree... they're almost like two different dataslates at this point. Since I am playing Sagas, and I like Ragnar with BC's, I'm running mostly shields. Again I might be biased because I'm playing against a high volume of marine killing armies. Votann is another example. Tons of cover denial, higher AP, 2 damage weapons. I often infiltrate the 3 man shield units. But I do love my 6 man shield unit with the Wolf Priest. They can be really tough to get rid of. Personally I have been taking the Wolves add on units with them. My armies tend to get a bit small and elite, and everything is fairly expensive with the lack of 5 man units in the codex. At this point I may just make 2 squads, 6 dudes each, with each loadout!

Yea that’s what I’m doing with Bjorn as well. I have him babysitting wolves which seems oddly fluffy and they have OC this way. on Logan: thankfully I’ve only really used this on his own unit but thanks for the warning. Terrible restriction though and nit really apparent in other codexes. It makes me wonder if the long range goal is to stop everyone from borrowing from the main marine codex and using any detachment to full effect ( unless that detachment is in your specific book… ie Gladius) So who is running Headtakers with shields, vs double armed?

Thanks for the info Dan. I’ve run Headtakers both ways and I’m not really finding the extra attacks are quite enough to offset a 4+ invuln will get you. Ironically as you mentioned , I happened to run 6 with shields and the priest. They’re a real pain to get rid of. I think both builds work but if I was in a cut throat tournament playing purely to win, I’m taking shields. Last night I played against Thousand sons. The amount of times they can put you on a 6+ save is truly staggering. I found the shields nearly mandatory. They’re a real 1K sons can feel very oppressive at 12-18”. so I had two games recently. Played Saga for both. I’m not seeing a real use for the other 2 Sagas. Some quick notes as I, pressed for time: - oddly enough I wasn’t all that impressed with Grimnar. He looks so good on paper but it’s his CP ability, and deep strike abilities rhat really make him shine. Personally I think Azrael and Calgar are a bit better. But Logan is still economical, as are Azrael and Calgar. ( I’ve played the later 2 quite a bit in the past year). The Logan model is just too damn good to not play regardless. What a sculpt - head takers. I’m still split. If fielding 3 , shields are a must. I’m most likely bringing them off an edge in a sticky situation, maybe even an action. And they need shields. 6 man? I’ve run them each way in two games. Against a janky GSC army the dual armed but hard and faded fast. Against Tsons, as mentioned shields were gold. If money weren’t an option I’d do 6 of each (I field 9) - Termies. I may take heat for this, but they stink. They’re simply meat to protect Logan. They have very little kill potential, and feel a little expensive. I think Headtakers are a far better choice. However I love these models and will continue to use a squad. I’d really love to get Arjac in the mix with some but I fear the list becomes too small and inefficient. - the troops are okay. The Grey Hunters are certainly over priced but in my second game they finally out OC’d an opponent long enough to deny a point they were sure they had. Lack of special rules/weapons and their size and points do make these a tough choice. But I’m getting okay results with 10 of them and 10 Bloodclaws. - Bjorn is great. Feels in a good spot and fairly fluffy. - iron priest. Already seeing a nerf…. But till now is great with my pred annihilator. hopefully I can post some pics in a hobby thread soon. I met my goal of finishing the pre release box set this last Saturday!

Thanks Dan, that's some great info/feedback. So you're actually taking 40 Troops? Wow. That is kind of going against the mainstream, but I like it, and you can't argue with success. I am still leaning towards Headtakers w/Shields. I just see the extra two attacks as 'okay' but the 4+ invuln almost essential to get opponents to really commit. But that's just me. Maybe more of a... playstyle preference. I may just do a second squad of 3 with dual swords. How has Logan/Terminators done for you?

So this is kind of an indirect comment on the 'way of Wolves' and I'm jut thinking out loud here. I've had a couple of games with my World Eaters and in the past 3-4 games I've very much been keeping my Wolves' ideas/strats in mind. I just played Thousand Sons. Let me tell you that can be an oppressive army. I heard the horror stories, and saw some competitive batreps but last night I faced it for the first time. Long story short, there's no way that I would even consider doing a full out assault with Wolves against the Thousand Sons (particularly what I saw across from me.) Just for clarity; my WE are exceptionally fast, advance and charge available, and 'bloodsurge' towards opponents in their shooting phase. I played a strong game, I got a bit lucky with 2 x 11" charges and literally had my way with that army and still by T4 I had almost nothing left. The shooting and psychic is so oppressive... I often had no save, or I was saving against Flamers with AP-3, and bolters with AP-3. That army completely mows elite infantry, all of it. It was only my speed and long bomb charges that won me the game. Further I don't think the Wolves are going to out assault the likes of WE and Deathguard. I don't like those match ups at all. The Wolves seem to want to steer you generally towards infantry/assault but I am seeing that it's going to be extremely beneficial to have a heavy dose of shooting in the list. At this point I'm thinking my assault units will only be specialized units, but I think most of the list is going to have to have competent range.

To me one of the deepest flaws is that GW cannot differentiate from unit 'X' as used in Detachment "1" or detachment "2-5" or Army type. etc. Perfect example is Intercessors with jump packs. Nearly mediocre to most marines, but very potent with Blood Angels. The result is all marines suffer the point increases. Berzerkers kind of fit a bit into that issue. A Berzerker in any other detachment aside from Warband is incredibly lethargic by comparison. So on another note, I'm at it again tonight. I'm stick back with Warband. I'd love to try Angron but I just can't fit him now, and the DP is literally the only reliable CP management which I think is very needed. The goofy thing I want to try is 2 Maulerfiends. Ideally I may go back to a Helbrute, and get rid of both Maulers because they are a little too overpriced, and if I ditch them it allows me to put at least one squad of Spawn back in the list which are so good. (But more expensive than Jakhals!) The thing about Maulers is they really scare people with their movement and 'lascannon fists'. It's a fun unit. EDIT: Just for clarity I don't have Forgefiends. I know everyone is using them. I know they're good I'm just experimenting with out them. ALSO.... I love my 8 bound/exalted. Probably too expensive but with Slaughterbound HQ's they are fun. (incredibly expensive though.)

Well I guess I'm pulling out my old Predator and Lancer. I do wish speeders went down a bit as I do love the anti tank one with it's +1 to wound mechanic. (I have used it off and on for years and it does keep getting cheaper.) I'm going to avoid the Gladius. I just sold a larger UM and DA army for that reason. (I don't need a bunch of armies that play the same detachment.) How big of a kick would it be to see SM codex 2.0 say that non-codex standard chapters can't use their detachments? Pure chaos? An exodus to "Ultra Wolves"? Or do people make these Saga's work? BTW: I haven't really fielded my Desolation marines since the nerf to 5 men, and 200(?) points. How are they doing?