Prot

Outriders are more the problem rather than a comparison. I don't think either squad is 'good'. But if you're just looking at making DA playable, it's a challenge. Try to get some fun units in there with the RW bikes, and the Hunters strats. It's not easy, I've had to take a break from it... very frustrating.

They look great. Lots of progress there!

Well I played it as written. But I will say if I killed something out right... IE: a unit with it's HQ. I only counted it once. I mean to be fair the fix is easy: once per phase cap. And of course it's limited to the one Overlord holding it. The enhancements aren't bad in this one, and the Strats are okay and meaningful if used with good timing. Like I said, out OC'ing his Kopters was huge too. The other Enhancement I used was the one to get full re-rolls if their on an objective. Combined with Immortals I almost made this work! Lol (I was never able to fully fire at something on an objective, but it has huge potential.) The use case is so specific with this detachment, so in my opinion the payoff should be pretty good. I'm trying to convince myself to use it again. The detachment isn't easy to use, and I think I had a couple of bad units. I would keep all the appropriate key words but believe it or not this might be one of the best use case scenarios for the Triarch stalker. I do have one Triarch Stalker, and maybe I could pull the Lokhusts, but they were critical. Trying to fit in a Monolith is looking tough in this one BUT there is motivation for not only the movement, but also the -1 damage strat in this detachment for vehicles. Plus could you imagine the look on your opponent's face when you lay down the other strat that lets Triarch keyword Precision with a Melta 4 heat ray??!?!! I'm starting to think some evil things with this detachment. I don't know if they will work, but they fell very "Necron Appropriate" for my meta!

Ah I forgot about that finecast overlord. I actually like the sculpt but I agree... just not worth the risk.

Ooops, yea Szeras was brutal. This was my second one. I don't think I'd put another together. lol

So I had my first Obeisance Phalanx game and it was a good test. It was also a reminder of how "late game" the Necrons can be. I will say my list is probably not that important as I was trying to slap stuff together that had the criteria of 1) Complimenting each other and 2) having synergy with the keywords. Shockingly, The Silent King, and Imotekh do NOT have the overlord key word making this awkward, and forcing a spam of either vanilla Overlords or Shroud Overlords. For those who don't know, you need Overlord, or Lychguard or Triarch to trigger the overall effect of the detachment and/or most of the strats which are weird but good in effect. The detachment is giving you a poor man's sort of Oath of moment for a +1 to wound against a target you choose, but ONLY with the aforementioned keywords. Basics of my list: Imotekh (with 10 Lychguard) 10 Lychguard (Sword and board, and BACKWARDS NECKS!!! scary stuff!!) 2 x 10 Immortals with Plasmancer and Chronomancer 10 Warriors reapers with a Royal Warden Illuminor Szeras Void Dragon 3 Skorpekh Destroyers 2 x 3 Tomb Blades 1 x5 Flayed ones 1 x 5 Triarch Praetorians 1 x 5 Deathstrikes I think that's about it. I played against an Ork player who said he was turning his list down a bit. He did not include that beast of a character (Mozrog? the guy riding the squig and there's also another squad of squig riders he uses.) It was a very high numbers list and the game went quite wonky. The game played out pretty much how I thought: He got first turn which I was happy about. He decided not to Wagh in T1. But nearly everything advanced. He did have a moderate array of shooting, but it was largely unfocused so my reanimation would bring back most of it. My turn 1 I could not afford to be too aggressive as I knew the Wagh was coming.... We both had terrible first round secondaries, and I was pinned deep in my zone. I shot up a squad, and targeted Ghaz and his squad of Mega Armoured Nobs with my +1 to wound. The shooting took out his entire Body guard of Nobs. Believe it or not, he lost 1 CP from this as I had that enhancement that makes you lose a CP if I kill something with the "character key word'" so his squad had it at the time.... crazy but it made a difference. One thing of Note: I was noticing I might be overloaded on my left side, so I pushed up the Void Dragon. After shooting 3 Tomb blades with blast into a 20 man Ork squad I barely killed anything after feel no pain rolls.... so I thought the Void Dragon with his sweep + extra attacks would clean house, but he didn't.... this would go back and forth for 4 Close combat sessions! So I'm getting royally out scored here, but he only hits 2 of my units with 4 of his, and Ghaz (alone with Makari now) only had a 1" advance, which was CP'd into a 2! So he was stuck out in the middle. I would later shoot him down with the same earlier squad, causing him to lose another CP! Fast forward and the Ork player is rather depressed... claiming he's unable to kill me. However I pointed out he split a lot of his assaults.... and at the same time, between being tied up and having Necron shooting/close combat I also failed to kill a single squad!!! He is up by 15 points, and here is the board state: With Dawn of War deployment, this is my side/overhead. Ghaz is stuck in th emiddle. On the far upper left my Void Dragon is stuck in the close combat from hell. Lower left he has this closed top war truck thing that he wanted to try and it managed to kill a few Lychguard in the Wagh turn. My 3 Lokhusts elude cc that turn and would be decent, but not great this game. Lower middle is my troops straying away from CC, but closer to Szeras. But mid/right you can see my best Immortal squad is stuck in with a truck and boyz from the wagh and I'd struggle the whole game to put a dent in that unit. Above: 3 tomb blades anxiously await a moment that never comes.... the Void Dragon would never kill this squad on his own, it would take the eventual arrival of the remaining Lychguard with Imotekh to clear it out... barely in T4. Wonky picture above: from the Ork side of the table... same turn. Eventually I would have a T4, T5 push back that sees me over come a 15 point deficit to win by 10 points. Coles notes: - I managed to take his home objective for 6 points with this trick: Deep strike 5 Triarch Praetorians, charge his little orks (can't remember the name.. the little guys T2.) kill them, and then during my Command Phase play the Phalanx strat to add 1 to my model's OC. He kills 2 models, both come back in my turn, I kill 1 of his 3 Kopters (OC 2 each). After reanimating my 2 models the OC stands as Necrons 6, Orks 4, and I steal his objective. That was big. - Ghaz would die in the open without reaching CC. That was also huge. - I tried very hard to reach the no man's objective on the right flank, but I just could not shift his 20 man boyz squad. I actually had a 5 man Flayed One squad get full crit hits by targeting the squad under half, getting 28 Hits with twin linked! Still only killed 6 boyz and the Warboss erased the squad! - Void Dragon was so important but looked horrible doing so. If he did not hold up the left flank, I would have been over run. Would I have liked him to be a little more 'killy'? Yea, but in hindsight he needed to be there. - I wanted a high model count but in hindsight I think I really could have used a Monolith but with no other armour, it may have died quickly... (thinking against all comers, not just Orks). Not sure, but I really could have used the mobility and some way to get out of CC reliably as this was really killing my already lethargic damage out put. Anyway it was a learning experience. I doubt I'd take the same list, and the detachment overall is a little niche based to be considered 'competitive' but it had its moments.

Well I've actually been doing this since the late 90's myself... and I've painted dozens of armies. And yes, I have to agree the Necrons (and probably Admech) are the most frustrating I've ever put together. This is my 3rd Necron army of over 5K points. (I don't count the old White Dwarf metal ones, though they sure were cool at the time!) So I had a game last night with the Obeisance Phalanx and had to get these guys in some state of play. I shaved the necks down to fix the angle. I think they look okay. After priming they are so bright I decided to do a heavy oil wash of brown / black and remembered to take a picture:

So I'm not sure what to do with this. What you see before you is my attempt at getting these guys done for testing Obeisance Phalanx tonight. I was in a rush and this is idiotic but the necks of the Lychguard are very much wedged in backwards. That is to say the heads would sit very odd (I tried) without modification. I doubt anyone else has done this but I've found it irreparable. I'm pretty peeved with myself but I've decided to cut the necks with a blade to re 'angle' them to be suitable for the heads. I can't think of another fix since I can't remove the necks. Wish me luck, I'll post another picture of my debacle. And if anyone else has actually done this, let me know!

Some great old timers there that will be sorely missed. Thanks for all that you've done. It's largely a thankless job, and you've certainly earned the retirement!

I wish I could say more, but right now I'm replacing the ones I sold in my last army. I've gone back and forth on the build so I'd love to hear what people are using and with what detachment. For right now I'm strongly thinking using them as a body guard for Imotekh and primarily sword and board with Obeisance.

Honestly, I don't think there is an advantage. This is a rare situation where GW's design of a squad was pretty bang on. Basically you're looking at the use case scenario. Lethal hits vs harder targets vs. volume of fire vs weaker/less armour. If you're not list tailoring and playing pick up games or tournaments I'd take both. For myself I've never regretted using both. Some games you wish you had more of one over the other, but again, if you're not list tailoring both have good bang for the buck.

I always use a squad of 5. Often I even put them into a Hypercrypt legion detachment just to have that extra squad to pounce with. I also want to put these in my Obeisance list but I have yet to field it. I think the squad overall is pretty mediocre but it's cheap enough to get some point scoring, and shooty enough to help clear weak screens.

Well I played it, and while I agree the detachment shows promise on paper, I think in execution it falls flat. I've seen a few others try it to mediocre results. I wanted to try it myself and I think it's the 'best of the worst'. The bikes don't work unless you overcharge. If you overcharge you lose bikes (I lost 3 in one volley meaning I lost much more than my opponent in my shooting phase.) The cost of the bikes is too high, which is something that may change one day. But like the Wolves, I'd worry that this is a medium to sell models they want gone and potentially end of life. (I know this is VERY cynical thinking on my part.) Personally I would not consider a Wolves codex that mirrors the function and capability of the Dark Angels codex to be something I'd play or want. I've seen enough threads from other marine players hoping they don't get "Dark Angel'd" to believe that GW will feel this and hopefully react positively.

I have been fearful of a new Wolves codex. I was completely and utterly disappointed in the Dark Angels codex. I'm moving away from them for now, and when I look at what happened (more bad than good) and apply it to Space Wolves here's what I'm hoping: The baseline Detachment: Dead on arrival. GW for whatever reason has only fixed one unusable detachment (DEldar). I expect that like the Unforgiven, the Wolves will have no hope for repairing the clunky saga based detachment. Models: Guessing for 2 Characters, and 2-3 kits. One will be new (IE: no replacement). GW is going huge on maxing profits from tiny kits. I expect some sort of Wolf Guard. Rules might be as bad as inner circle, hard to say. Replacement kits: Top guess is Wulfen and Termies. Or Wulfen and TWC with.... a very expensive upgrade sprue for Termies coming in a small box with two small sprues and one sheet of decals. Characters: this is a tough one.... so many good Wolves characters. I can't even guess at this. Even a case for Grimnar on foot could be made. My biggest concern is the rules. So far the only successful DA players are using Ironstorm (main codex) ignoring all the DA codex stuff, and then using the shroud Speeder and of course Azrael. The rest of the codex can literally be thrown in the garbage. If you would have asked me 3 months ago I'd say there's no way they'd do this to Wolves. This codex has the opportunity to be very cool, and unique. I miss the 'specialization' this codex used to have, and the feel of being the Wolves is in danger here. Crossing my fingers....

Very nice start! I love the kit bash with the Terminator + Inner Circle Companions.