dswanick

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Math doesn't win games, and math hammered dice odds will only play true on an exceptionally large selection of games. Having played the Storm Talon with both lascannons and skyhammers, I can admit that the high rate of fire for the skyhammers gives good service against light armor and infantry, but look at the AV12 fliers and how dangerous they are. They are the kind of threats that need to die immediately or they can wreak unimaginable harm on your army. Killing a unit via hull points takes time; a single penetrating hit with an AP bonus has an excellent chance of either pulling a unit's teeth or killing it flat out in a single hit. I find your definition of "excellent chance" odd. I wouldn't define a 45% chance of penetrating and a 15% chance of Destroying something as "excellent". That's a 55% of not Penetrating and an 85% of not Destroying something. Now that's "excellent odds".

Problem: "No objective can be placed in, or on, impassible terrain, buildings, or fortifications.", BRB, Pg.121 Each section of the FoR is a building.

Lucius Dreadnought Drop Pod is what you're thinking of. They're slightly less than double the price of a regular pod, allow you assault out of it, but has no weapon. Also, each Lucius pod is a fast attack choice on it's own, so it can limit what you can take in your list. On the other hand, there's no reason you can't use your normal GW plastic Drop Pod model as a Lucius, so cost is a non-issue.

Actually, if you're running more than one Flyer then a Stormtalon is actually a decent Wild Weasel. Armed with a Skyhammer launcher, your putting out 3X 60" S7 shots with a BS5. By maneuvering the Stormtalon to stay out of range of the Quadgun, you can destroy it without it ever getting a return shot. And it's at least 30pts less expensive and more maneuverable than the Ironclad/Droppod option.

Then we're doing our job right! If you're not sure but think there's been a good review, it means that all the options have been discussed equally well with a lot of balance. However, the fact that most people seem to op for the TML, with some others going for the TL-LC, should let you know what the preferred weapon options are. I myself like the TML, for power and flexibility. Agreed, and it really all comes down to your role for this unit. Air superiority : TL Lascannon Ground attack : Typhoon or Heavy Bolter Wild Weasel : Skyhammer

Good point. I was just sitting here, considering this same angle. I just wasn't sure if that variation in wording really makes much difference...

Hey, as long as you're willing to accept the loss of the Gift then I'm willing to accept one re-roll. But that's not the OPs stance, he contends that by limiting it to one re-roll you can apply the disallowed result - based on the wording of the BRB rule on re-rolls having to accept the second result.

Now I do think some things need to be clarified here. There are two different situations going on here: - The first is Gift of Mutation. "Gift of Mutation Do not apply any Spawnhood or Dark Apotheosis results; roll again on the table instead.", C:CSM, Pg.67 This rule tells you to not apply these two results, but to re-roll instead. If you want to argue that Codex > Rulebook does not apply, then if you roll either of these results and then re-roll either of these results you can't apply them but you also can't continue to re-roll. losing the Gift of Mutation. You must accept that Codex > Rulebook if you want to keep rolling until you get a result you can apply. - The second is Boon of Mutation "Boon of Mutation ...he must immediately make a roll on the Chaos Boon table (re-rolling the Dark Apotheosis result)...", C:CSM, Pg.70 I'm willing to accept that, in this case, if a first DA result is rolled and the re-roll comes up DA then the model does become a Daemon Prince. It's a very rare occurance and might be intentional that the DA result should be unlikely but possible. However, to get this possibility you have to accept that Codex does not overrule Rulebook in which case you must accept that in all instance (and not just this one), including the example above.

No. Codex overrules rulebook, and the Codex tells you to keep rolling until you get a valid result. This is where your wrong. The BRB does state "The second roll counts, even if it means a worse result than the first, and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once, regardless of the source of the re-roll. Way wrong bud sorry. That's been a rule since I think before 2nd ed. I know for fact 3rd. "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence."BRB, Pg.7 The BRB rule tells you to take the second result even if worse than the first. The codex tells you to keep rolling until you get a valid result. Codex > Rulebook, so you do what the Codex tells you. And please, don't call me "bud".

No. Codex overrules rulebook, and the Codex tells you to keep rolling until you get a valid result.

Quick question to this. Am I allowed to charge a unit in the assault phase, if the unit I was shooting at in the shooting phase is completely destroyed? Or am I not allowed to assault at all because I have to attack a unit I was shooting at? You can if the charged unit is a formerly embarked unit forcibly disembarked by your destroying their transport in the shooting phase. BRB, Pg.80

Magnets are your friend... :P

Agreed, but the are several members in this forum who have argued thus in several threads in this sub-forum. And I've encountered some IRL who make the same argument. This one always tickles me. What do these people think "counts as" means? Heck, you tell me. You've debated them almost as long as I have. :P

Agreed, but the are several members in this forum who have argued thus in several threads in this sub-forum. And I've encountered some IRL who make the same argument.