apologist

While I'm fine with how Imperial Fists now stand, part of me wishes that 3rd edition had grasped the nettle and had the Black Templars as a particular detachment/faction/modus operandi of the Imperial Fists (much as the Deathwing were an alternative scheme for Dark Angels). Likewise, I'd retcon the Alpha Legion to be slightly less insufferable and spool back to their 'superiority over all' schtick rather than 'sneaky sneaky ah-ha!' villains. Don't get me wrong; I like the 'hidden knife' idea; but think it rather fights with the idea of a Legion fighting battle-scale operations. By all means have the top brass and special forces in a tangled web of intrigue and misdirection, but it'd be nice to make their warbands (rather than individuals) have a bit more character. +++ Beyond Space Marines, I'd like regular ork boys to have a bit more 'dark mirror of humanity' about them. They feel better when they're more comparable to a Guardsman than a Space Marine – tougher and more of a threat up-close, sure; but fundamentally an equivalent to a human, not a superhuman. I'd like more to be made of their settlements, kultur and personal/tribal rivalries; that strikes me as more narratively interesting than just the hulking mindless monsters. Like the baddies from old films, they should be a proper scary threat, but not as alien in their aims and desires as, say, Tyranids. Orks should love a proper scrap and not have existential fear of death – but that doesn't mean they're idiots or can't get scared. Let's see some taktiks and straturgee from them; give them the credit for outwitting Imperial and other forces every once in a while, even if they generally prefer to out-muscle them to prove how 'ard they are! +++ Also, I'd like the psychic part of Eldar to be made more of – superhuman reflexes married to a psychic communications grid should make them the masters of battlefield understanding. They're the elves of the setting, so I'd like to see Guardians get a bit more respect. Militia they may be, but they've still often hundreds or thousands of years of life experience – and in a galaxy of war, you bet they've seen their share of conflicts. Many have walked the path of the Warrior themselves, and their physical conditioning is – well, elf-like – so they're no slouches. While I'd expect them to get pasted one-on-one with a Space Marine, a five-man group of Guardians should be a respectable opponent that's a genuine threat: operating with great equipment, a close understanding of their role and comrades, and with a psychic 'spider sense' helping them identify, neutralise or eliminate threats.

The idea of proto-Primarchs certainly has merit; it strikes me as exactly the sort of fun idea that you could build a whole campaign or personal army around. The concept of the Primarchs has expanded from them just being the leaders of Space Marines Chapters (later Legions), and while they've now grown to being supersized and supernatural, I think there's still space. After all, it's a big galaxy, and with characters like Basilio Fo, Amar Astartes and the Selenar priesthood around (and their counterpart biological/technomantical/magical geniuses in the years that follow), it's entirely possible that other not-quite-Primarchs or Primarch/adjacent beings might exist. We've had a couple of 'are-they-aren't-they?' figures like the Sleeper and Alpha Primus, so the creation of Primarch-lite or Primarch-like figures is possible; and there's also the twin precedents of the Grey Knights having geneseed that's not derived from the 20 Primarchs* and Cawl's production of Astartes from geneseeds beyond the remaining nine loyalists. On a closely-related note, Rick Priestley posted the following comment on a YouTube video, which gives the author's intent on the missing legions: There's more discussion and reading material on this thread, if it's helpful: *arguably)

As the topic suggests, I’m wondering if anyone has a visual on Calth. There’s lots of detail and world building in Know No Fear, but has anyone worked it up into a map?

Fun idea for a thread, thanks @Mr Farson. I picked up a few models from the release, and have been working on this Saturnine terminator. The conversion's pretty minimal; I just wanted to remove the eagle from the chest and swap out the ray gun for a good old-fashioned boltgun. I also reshaped the eagle's head that forms part of the 'collar' to make an oval setting for a spirit stone pinched from a Striking Scorpion exarch, too. Finally, the helm spikes were trimmed off, and a loincloth was added. While I'm writing, what a pain in the [SCRAPSHUNTERRORABORT] these models are to build! Forty-odd pieces to build a single infantryman? Six pieces just to build the power fist arm? While so many bits makes converting more approachable, I can't help feeling that some further refinement could have made things a bit more... fun if you just want to build them out of the box? While I like the result very much, it took me two evenings to get the model from sprue to this point. I'm all for posability and modularity, but... oof. Perhaps I've just got to the point where time is becoming more of a factor in my enjoyment of the hobby – or maybe I've got too used to single piece metal models as I've dug out my Steel Legion recently. Anyway, back to the conversion: the forearm is from a Squat prospector model (the power fist equivalent), which was fairly simple to integrate by trimming the ball of the elbow flat. The storm bolter itself was from my bits box – I think it's from a Justaerin Terminator, though I wouldn't swear to that. Size-wise, these are absolute chunks. Mine is pictured here alongside a 'truescale' marine and Captain Aethon in Terminator armour (a conversion based on the FW Custodes Terminators). I've put the Saturnine Terminator on two bases to account for the height of Captain Aethon's base.

Y'know, I'm surprised GW hasn't started selling those! Confession time: I've never actually owned a copy of Codex: Armageddon – I remember thinking it was a bit steep for 32pages – but I do now. It turned up last night. Spent a few minutes browsing through, and while most of it was familiar from various places, there were some interesting surprises and a couple of subtleties I'd completely forgotten. For instance, I had remembered that the Steel Legion list was 'the' Guard list in there, but there's actually a few subtly different ways of playing Guard, including: The Steel Legion proper – that is, with everyone mounted in Chimeras). Armageddon Infantry company, which is effectively standard Guard but with a few restrictions like not Ogryns, Ratlings or Rough Riders, and the addition of Hive Militia. Armageddon Prime Ork Hunters – the Deathworld (read: Codex: Catachan) list As noted above, I'm a bit short of Chimeras, so the Hive Militia seem like a fun unit to explore. The Codex mentions that Necromunda miniatures are ideal, but I'm interested to see if anyone has their own take on these. Oh, that's very kind! It'd be great to get a game in some time :) +++ Small beginnings, but I've got four off the blocks and well on their way. I chose to pick four specialists (the fifth, the lasgun-armed soldier on the left, was already painted and is used as a colour reference) as I figured they'd add the most to the force – plus I wanted to paint the banner. We've therefore got a comm-link/vox-caster, a colour bearer, meltagunner and a medic. I thought some blue sterile gloves would be a nice way to help pick him out.

+ The Many Wars of Armageddon + Have I mentioned that I've really got into the Armageddon setting over the past few years? Between recreating the Blood Angels of the Second War for Armageddon, and building Salamanders for the same period, I've also been working, on-and-off on a single-topic blog, The Ashes of Armageddon (which you're very welcome to peruse). Having built a wasteland-themed gaming table, my most recent twist on this particular region has been turning my attention to my personal favourite army, the Imperial Guard – and specifically the Steel Legion; and more specifically the 707th Regiment, part of the 7th Army Group. If you'd like a deep dive into Steel Legion lore, you can read more of how I've interpreted the various bits and bobs written about the guard during the Second Armageddon War in this article. ... and so I'm now turning to the point of this topic, which is using the same army for multiple editions, and covering all three wars (and potentially an upcoming fourth?) – which sparked the idea behind 'an eternity of war'! These Steel Legion have already fought in 6th edtion, 9th edition, 2nd edition (and even a couple of games under the old Age of Darkness rules), and a couple of friends have just invited me to get involved in a 3rd edition event. Here's how I'm preparing. +++ Rutger's rebreather gave a protesting click. He was too tired to be nervous about the filter – all he wanted was for the interminable waiting to be over. The High-and-Dries had been encamped in the Hemlock valley for more than a week now, the orks sending occasional probing attacks along the line – not enough to warrant a decisive response, but more than sufficient to keep the whole line at ready status. Why weren't they attacking? Little more than ten minutes later, Rutger would regret asking. +++ It's been fun to dig back into old versions. The various niggles about particular details ('such-and-such was always rubbish/overpowered/absent in this edition' or 'I never understood why [X} happened that way under these rules') fade away a bit when you hop from edition to edition – and trying to keep the army vaguely consistent is interesting as you find which units are always reliable (or reliably underperforming!), and which ones swing wildly from 'paperweight' to 'ah, that's why everyone takes loads of those'. In all the games I've played, the army has been built with a core of: a Command Squad; two platoons of at least two infantry squads (typically three each, so around 80 infantry all-in); plus a supporting Leman Russ tank or variant for each platoon. Like most Guard players I ever knew, I never had enough Chimeras to actually field the 'official' Steel Legion forces from Codex: Armageddon, so my army has mostly been fielded using whichever Guard Codex is appropriate for the edition. Here that's the first Codex: Imperial Guard released for 3rd edition – the one just before the doctrines one. The draft army list is below. I'm still 80pts short, so happy to hear of any suggestions you have – though please bear in mind this is very much a background-led army; and what's great in one edition is often pap in another! :) It's not just about the Imperium – I love the orks, too! +++ Steel Legion 707th – the 'High-and-dries' 4th–7th Army Groups – Untithed, or 'Marlen's Men' The 4th to 7th Armies were collectively known as the Untithed, and were made up of hurriedly-recalled Planetary Defence Force soldiers alongside barely-qualified recruits. With Von Strab and the Hive Governors unwilling to sanction the deployment of armour and vehicles intended for off-world export, the Untithed were in the unhappy position of being Steel Legion forces lacking in both transport and armoured support. Of those able to be gathered, the bulk were moved to the Palidus Line, with General Marlen taking overall command of the 4th through to the 7th Army groups; numbering around three-quarters of a million men and women across 130 or so Regiments. [...] Marked out by a white thunderbolt on a green field, the Regiments that would become known as the Firesweep and High-and-Dries were stationed south of the Palidus mountains, on the eastern banks of the Styx River. Initially collectively referred to as the Stygians, the nickname fell out of use early on as the Army Groups' individual characters became apparent. Disposition of the 1st, 2nd, 6th and 7th Armies at the start of the invasion. [...] 'High-and-Dries' was a barely-tolerated regimental nickname that suggests the black humour of the soldiers that made up the 7th Army Group. Taking their name from their unique position as the only one of Marlen's Army Group to weather the initial assault, the Army Group's tenuous 'victory' proved short-lived as the Evil Suns ork tribe used their speed to surround and cut off the Army Group. While the Regiments that made it up – notably including the 7-7th Engineers – attempted to break out on a number of occasions, the sallies proved increasingly bloody and unrewarding, and the casualties only mounted up. Eventually, the Army Group was deemed non-combat viable. The individual Regiments – often now down to mere hundreds – ceased to attempt to create an ordered path of retreat, and instead were ordered to 'improvise and adapt'. This ill-chosen piece of strategic shorthand became infamous across the 7th Army Group as a euphemism for abandonment, and those that were able to escape the Evil Suns blockade never forgave their superiors. 1500pts HQ – 445pts Command HQ – 178pts Colonel (70) Carapace armour (5) Refractor field (15) Power weapon (10) Bolt pistol (3) Bionics (5) Standard Bearer (10) Regimental standard (20) Medic (10) Comm-link (15) Grenade launcher (15) Mortar squad – 95pts Anti-tank squad (35) – 115pts Missile launcher team (20) Lascannon team (30) Lascannon team (30) Commissar (40) – 57pts Carapace armour (5) Bolter (2) Power weapon (10) +++ Troops – 320pts Command section – 81pts Lieutenant (35) Power weapon (10) Bolt pistol (3) Carapace armour (5) Plasma gun (8) Missile launcher (15) Comm-link (5) Infantry Squad (60) – 78pts Flamer (3) Missile launcher (15) Infantry Squad (60) – 78pts Plasma gun (8) Heavy bolter (10) Infantry Squad (60) – 83pts Melta gun (8) Missile launcher (15) Troops – 320pts Command section – 81pts Lieutenant (35) Power weapon (10) Bolt pistol (3) Carapace armour (5) Plasma gun (8) Missile launcher (15) Comm-link (5) Infantry Squad (60) – 78pts Flamer (3) Missile launcher (15) Infantry Squad (60) – 78pts Plasma gun (8) Heavy bolter (10) Infantry Squad (60) – 83pts Melta gun (8) Missile launcher (15) +++ Heavy support – 335pts Leman Russ Vanquisher (175) – 190pts Hull-mounted lascannon (15) Leman Russ battle tank (140) – 145pts Hull-mounted heavy bolter (5) +++ As you can see above, much of this is already painted, but I recently was given a kind gift from a friend of mine; these specialists (and a few more) will be used to fill in some of the gaps in the Steel Legion range. I hope you'll follow along, and if you also enjoy the Second War for Armageddon – whether Imperial or Ork – please do comment and post your own forces; I'd love to hear more from you!

As always, thank-you for your commentary and insights. I know very little about the technowizardry of financials, so appreciate being led through.

2W and 2A, with lots of weapon options. They're a neat way of creating 'Codex-style' Space Marines, with one heavy and one special weapon; though they're also more flexible than that. I'm very pleased with them, because I think they're great rules for 'truescale/movie marines' when fighting things like Solar Auxilia. Gives them a bit more beef and keeps the numbers low.

I'll agree with overcomplicated, but thematically I think it makes a lot more sense that a field apothecary can triage small arms wounds, but is at a loss when his comrades are hit with tank busters! The designers have made explicit that they want the game to be more narrative, and so I get the feeling the reason rules like these feel a bit over-crunchy is the desire to hew closely to 'feel' rather than slickness. I'm not sure they're hit the mark every time, but I admire the effort. For what it's worth, I think apothecary rules have always struggled a bit. They're either realistic but ineffective (2nd ed. 40k) or overly abstract and 'game-y' (10th ed. 40k). While I always thought I wanted abstractness and clean rules, there's been a bit of a sting in the tail of me getting my wish. 40k has got smoother and faster and slicker, but ultimately I now find it a bit ... soulless? +++ I always liked having an Apothecary present in my army, but it felt weird seeing one in every squad. These 'Medic!' rules appear over-complex on the face of things, but I suspect after a game or two they'll become second nature. My impression is that they have ensured that taking an Apothecary in a squad will be more driven by narrative and rule-of-cool than an auto-take, and that's a narrative win. ... and as a final thought, it strikes me that these rules tally well with Legions Imperialis, where the Medic only has a chance at saving infantry hit by Light weapons (i.e. small arms) – they're ineffective against bigger stuff.

By the will of the God-Emperor/ Completely by coincidence (delete as appropriate), I dug these out of my garage over the weekend. A lot of fun, and some very fond memories.

The book is the sleeper hit of this preview (the Whirlwinds and Vindicators my actual faves – what took you so long, lads?) I loathe ‘splatbooks’. Absolutely detest the idea of breaking up a single armylist across half a dozen books, so voted with my wallet by simply ignoring them. I can kinda understand them for something like 40k, or AoS, which have been ticking along for years, but for GW’s boxed games, which almost by definition should be a bit more self-contained and less ambitious in scope, it just comes across as anti-consumer. This preview, of a book that contains the actual complete army lists for every army in the game, and notes in a quiet phrase that they’ve been rebalanced? Well, that to me says that this is the version that has benefited from all the early adopters, and has every potential to be worth picking up. I really want to like Legions more than I do; I hope this release finally gives me the reason to do so. (also, Whirlwinds – awesome!)

Yeah, this is exactly the route I use. Rules are secondary to models, but it's always pleasing when you can make a decent approximation of what your model's actually holding within the rules.

I agree with the sentiment (I like all my toy soldiers to tally up scale-wise!), but I think there's a conscious effort to differentiate 30k and 40k; and minimise crossover. I would expect any resized Cataphractii and Tartaros to be only incrementally larger, and certainly no larger than the more recent character series figures in Tactical Dreadnought Armour. The Imperial Fist Praetor in Tartaros plate is notable for being a slightly smaller one that quickly replaced a very large figure. Anyone have some of the more recent resin Terminators to compare with the plastics?

Whether planned or not, this is good to hear. It's nice to see a clear rundown on what's in, what's not, and perhaps most critically, an explanation of why certain decisions were made. It looks like a thorough list, so fair play to them for addressing things properly, rather than more vague statements that further inflame things. (and on a related note, I'll happily retract my prediction that Tartaros Terminators' loss of Power Fists suggested that they were being rethought as a unit, since that's an example explicitly called out.) +++Edit+++ Although now I read a bit more closely... is the implication actually that it is intentional that Tartaros won't have power fists except through this PDF?

Ah; have I got things wrong? I thought it worked like: Crusade Primary Detachment Centurion – opens up two potential Auxiliary Detachments Unlocks my Praetorians (Elite) through Logistical Benefit Auxiliary Detachment 1 – e.g. Dreadnought Chaplain – opens up one potential Auxiliary Detachment Auxiliary Detachment 2 – e.g. Land Raider Master of Signals – opens up one potential Auxiliary Detachment Auxiliary Detachment 3 – e.g. Heavy Support Squad Is that not right? If it is, then that covers everything I'd typically have in a game.