bolvar

Yeah, extra attacks for the sake of more dice don't feel like us. Historically we've been more the reroll failed hits/ease to hit guys, looking at our old vows.

Then give them some jump packs or bikes and make them advance toward the action

It seems too good to be true. Brothers, with all of these things you're saying, we could get drop pods, fill every one of them, deploy them on turn 1 and with chaplain's "canticle of hate" litany, secure a charge with a roll of 7 rerolling one or both dice?

Must show... restraint.... Brothers, this looks pretty good, what foul heresy is this?

Agreed on that Ishagu

I'll admit, these new codex+supplements give me new hope, but I don't want to raise it too high until new info is released. It's good news also that Angels of Death finally includes ATSKNF+Bolter Discipline, but the best part is the shock assault new rule. Crusader squads will bring the pain as they should again. And, for one, I hope that we don't get primaris Hellbretch and Grimaldus, I want to keep using them

We BTs got thrown into the vanilla codex and well, I still think we should have our own codex. The issue with being in the same book is that you get eclipsed by ultramarines, specially regarding lore entries. Paint galleries are also an issue, with almost every unit painted in blue. It's true that if every SM chapter get rolled into the same book it would be easier to have all core stuff (regarding units) working equal for every chapter. Same base rules, same base equipment, point costs, etc... That would leave a window to expand chapter specific rules/traits/wargear... In theory. The reality is that you get far less rules, wargear, stratagems and less chance to get unique units, because let's face it, vanilla codex is ultramarines codex. So no, with their current line of work, every chapter that shares the same book that ultramarines gets almost squatted by comparison

Some of you guys talk about "renegade classic marines" in a hypotetical civil war between primaris and classic elements inside the chapters Why not the other way? renegade/cawl-mind controlled primaris, acting against the chapters that they have been sent? Because if one side should be more prone to rebel, it should be the new guys who appeared out of nowhere, specially being a mix of pre and heresy era and new recruits, instead of the ones that have been kicking for 10 millenia. That way, you keep the classic marines as the old, loyal ones and the primaris can go two routes: either prove themselves that they're truly loyal, or go the renegade route. Instead of demonizing the old chaps

The day classic marines are out will be the day I'll be out of anything related to 40k. I will never buy anything primaris. Let's see if they keep true to their word that classic marines are going nowhere. Time will tell, but it doesn't looks good.

I agree that chaplains need changes/buffs, but I don't think converting them into loyalist dark apostles is the right way to do. I find that their abilities are, at the very core, correct: improves morale and everyone fight better around them. But I think there is a double issue: One is about rerolls: marines usually hit at 3+ both in shooting phase and fight phase, that makes rerolling 1s a very powerful buff, because you only miss at 2s. And there are other units which, without being that good at giving rerolls around them, do enough to displace chaplains, for example, captains and other equivalent units which also give rerolls to both the shooting and fight phase. Second one revolves around the leadership bubble: while on the paper is good, on the table is not that good because marines are played in small/medium size units and have good base leadership stat. That alone, with the current morale rules, decreases a lot the strength of this ability. And I believe that against -ld bubbles, the leadership bubble doesn't prevent to falling into low ld (also, there are too few units across the 40k armies that do this). Add ATSKNF into this redundant train, being baseline for every marine, into the mix and you get an ability that most of games you don't even use once. Given that the majority of SM armies leans more towards shooting rather than melee doesn't help either, talking about the fight phase rerolls. How to fix this? Tough call. Either you make chaplains true and glorious monsters at CC, or you nerf reroll abilities of almost everything while buffing his ld bubble to the levels of auto pass morale checks. Sadly, I can't see any fix for our chaplains in the short time. Maybe with a new edition...

If there is any doubt, then there's no doubt: heresy

They need soul. And the whole "stratagem is the future" sounds as soulless as the primaris. Lately I've been off of this forum, but every time I take a peek, I only see the same. Guess I'm running out of gas for the meantime.

I'd rather leave old characters alone and bring in some new ones. You know, new characters and stuff For one, my innards writhe at the sole mention of BT primaris characters

As a BT, I fully support what you said.