Iron Father Ferrum

The introduction of a LOT of new units to various factions were called out by the playerbase, especially because GW's method of introduction usually reduced itself to "no, this isn't new, it's been there all along!" You know, like their tweet confirming Custodes claimed. I remember the first appearance of Centurion warsuits. I remember seeing leaked pictures, posted here on these very forums, showing the back of the models where you could see the back of the leg of the power armor where the war suit armor doesn't completely enclose the "boot" and lower leg. People began mocking this new model, and the most popular joke was a reference to a TV show at the time called "Pimp My Ride." If you're unfamiliar, the host Xzibit would glow-up the crappy cars of young people based on their interests, usually with an explanation of "Yo dawg, I heard you like X so I put X in there so you can X while you X." Cue early memes about "Yo dawg, I heard you like power armor so I put power armor on your power armor so you can power armor while you power armor." The Heldrake and Mauler/Forgefiends were received with scorn at the styling, and were maligned as "dinobots." There are still people in the hobby who adamantly refuse to use anything that even appears to be a Primaris Space Marine. But now? These things are accepted. There's a lot of controversy over this change -- and I stand by my earlier statement that this is a change, and I will send receipts via PM if it's that important to someone -- but it's not a fundamental change to the setting. The Chaos Gods aren't going to rip apart the Golden Throne because one of the immortal demigod Primarch-ish power-level guardians of the Emperor needs a little extra space beneath their plastron. The game will continue. Those who like it will enjoy it, those who don't will either leave, or on a long enough timeline will just accept this change the same as how dinobots, Centurions, and Primaris have been accepted.

No photos, but yesterday me and a bud took 2nd in a 40K team tournament -- Ultras & Iron Hands. We lost to Orks & World Eaters by like five points, but then beat Orks & Votann by like, seven points and Necrons & Death Guard by three.

=][= If the page count of this thread looks much shorter than it did the last time you read through it, that's because entire pages have been pruned for being off-topic, disruptive, (which is, as an aside, an off-topic conversation for the forum -- thus removal). Some posts that did not directly violate the rules were hidden because they quoted posts that did. This thread is for polite discussion regarding the lore change (and it is a change) noting that there are female Custodes. Like it or not, it's now a thing. To pull a few examples, this thread is not for: discussing the clothing choices of Drukhari, the number of female heads on the new Cadian sprues, or the impacts of modern feminism on a completely different IP. This thread will remain locked for the time being. Further guidance will follow in due course. =][=

Just a quick and friendly note: predictions on model removal is a topic for another thread.

I've played a couple games with the Ironstorm and I'm generally content. Between twinlinked, Oathed targets, and other sources of rerolls. . . that extra Ironstorm reroll just makes everything super consistent and reliable.

Honestly, I don't feel that this model in particular has a use. If you want a gunship, we have that already. If you want an aerial transport. . . we have that already.

Tor is an interesting model to bring up in this discussion because he carries a grav gun. Not a cannon mind you, but the standard small-arms grav gun. That and the Techmarine pistol are the only grav weapons in the Primaris range. It makes me curious if we're going to see more regular grav guns appear elsewhere in the range, or if at some point Tor's will be the singular example and only grav cannons get representation.

I totally understand the increasingly-common concept, voiced in this thread, that the lack of hard-coded identification is a good thing. It's not a terrible idea, and I even utilized the concept back in 5th Edition when my Iron Hands didn't have a named character that triggered a change to how the army functioned. So I used a black-painted Lysander and played as "counts-as" (which was the term en vogue at the time). I understand it, I tried it (briefly!), but I didn't like it then. And I still don't like it now. In my experience, the preference for a stricter view of paint schemes and going by what a thing is named is mostly an older-school gamer ideology. It's how we learned to play, it's what we know. For me, I'm a very literal person. I say what I mean and I interpret things how they're initially presented (I was considered quite gullible as a kid). So if I walk into my LGS and see an army in Raven Guard colors and Raven Guard markings, the last thing I'd expect is for someone to say "my warlord is Uriel Ventris." I wouldn't like it, and I wouldn't refuse to play that person. . . but I still think it's in poor taste. Ventris' datasheet has the ULTRAMARINES keyword. I've read however many novels about him where he's an Ultramarine. He belongs in an army that is representing the Ultramarines. Anything else offends that autistic part of my brain that wants everything just so. Getting to OP's real question, though: yes, I do think there's a bit of personalization missing. Making everything as generic and rigid as possible makes the game more easily balanced, which is a noble goal foisted upon us by the comparatively ignoble idea of catering the game to the tournament crowd. The lack of real customization on units and characters hurts your ability to explore a theme that's different from the mainstream. Sorry to say, people like you & I are no longer GW's preferred market for 40K (though some of that is still present in the Heresy rules from what I understand). Now. All that being said, my golden rule of the hobby still applies: they're your models, you can do what you want with them.

Thanks guys! Here's a couple closer-ups from the gallery. What the Baneblade sees: Sorcerer Ozzymandias and his much-reduced bodyguard from Rifle Squad Venator:

He's been featured in at least novels -- he was a Scout getting promoted to full brother in Eye of Medusa (I don't know if he re-appeared in Voice of Mars because I didn't read it) and was the commander of the Iron Hands in Wrath of Iron -- but aside from that he hasn't popped back up yet that I'm aware of. Since Wrath takes place in, I think, the 800's M41 but he wasn't listed as a Company Captain in the codices dated around the end of M41/start of M42, at this point he's either dead or interred in a Dreadnought.

I've never seen that implication anywhere. The closest I recall mentioning is that Lukas was a bit of ladies' man, though that lore entry was unclear if it was before or after his ascension. Also, not to get too graphic, but considering that Astartes are far larger than baseline humans in nearly every way we've seen, it's doubtful that the, uh, shall we say act of procreation would be physically possible.

Quick note: this is being presented as a sequel to my previous Battle Report, which can be found here. The Iron Hands armored drive through Ardenner Wood completely outflanked the Davidian Line, and Throne-loyal troops poured into the breach behind the advancing Astartes. As the Iron Hands lead the drive directly on the Capitolis Hive Cluster, Cadian troops fanned out behind them and attacked into the flanks and rear of the Traitor forces holding the Davidian defenses. One reconnaissance overflight identified a large supply cache at the edge of the Ardenner area, and the Cadians diverted to seize it, or at the very least deny it to the Archenemy. Upon arriving at the cache near Rorke's Ford, the Guard formation were suddenly overwhelmed by feelings of dread and confusion; a Noctilith Crown, vile corrupted fortifications of Chaos, had been erected by the cache. Asserting their wills, the Guard moved in to destroy the cache when, much to the surprise of the Loyalists, swarms of Traitor Astartes emerged from hiding and counter-attacked fiercely. The stalwart Guardsmen, rushing to the attack, suddenly found themselves thrown to the defensive as Traitor armor and Chaos-infused Space Marines rushed their lines. FORCE OMICRON Master of Possession (Undivided, Warlord) Exalted Champion (Khorne, Talisman of Burning Blood) Sorcerer (Tzeentch, Eye of Tzeentch) 10x Legionaries (Tzeentch) 10x Cultist Mob (Nurgle) 10x Chosen (Khorne) 10x Possessed (Undivided) 5x Havocs (Nurgle) 5x Raptors (Slaanesh) Land Raider (Khorne) Rhino (Tzeentch) 2x Helbrutes (both Nurgle) Noctilith Crown (Nurgle) ASTRA MILITARUM Cadian Command Squad Commissar Tank Commander in Leman Russ Vanquisher 4x Cadian Shock Troopers 3x Leman Russ Battle Tanks 3x Basilisks Baneblade GAME SETUP We drew Hammer & Anvil, Sites of Power, and Minefields; I went with Tactical Objectives, but my opponent chose to use Fixed Objectives of Assassination and Bring it Down. My opponent won the deployment roll and chose to Defend. He mostly back against his board edge, content once again to stand on the defensive rather than advance and seize objectives (more on this later). He parked his artillery on my left, screen by infantry, with more infantry and the officers in the center, and his heavy armor on my right. I placed the Crown front & center, with my Possessed on the right, Legionaries in a Rhino with Helbrute supprt on the left, and the rest in the center to benefit from the Crown's aura. I won the roll for first turn. TURN 1 I drew Area Denial and Engage on All Front for my first turn -- not a good draw. I advanced my Possessed out of the forest and onto the right-hand objective, taking some cover behind the shipping containers. On the left, the Rhino moved up and disembarked the Legionaries; the Cultists (having stickied my home objective) and a Helbrute followed my Land Raider as it pushed up to the limited of the Crown's aura and nudged into scoring range of the center objective. I was able to kill one Leman Russ and one Basilisk via shooting, as well as clearing out an entire squad of Cadians on the Guard's home objective. The Cadian retort would have been worse for him, but after our last game I wanted to help my opponent learn the game and his army a bit better, and help him tactically. We had a pretty good discussion about the importance of maneuver and objectives, and I started pointing out the use of special rules and stratagems as well as aiding his decisions in terms of target priority. The end result was that his anti-tank fire mostly bounced off the protective aura around my Land Raider, but he killed most of the Legionaries (with Basilisks and infantry) and five of the Possessed (mostly battle cannons) -- ouch! Score was 0-0 at the end of the round. TURN 2 Turn two opened with a Skinshift on the Legionaries, bringing back my heavy bolter, as well as my using Insane Bravery on the same unit to avoid a battle shock test. I scored on four objectives, with extra points on the two flank objectives for having characters on them. My shooting left the Baneblade on 6 wounds remaining (he made four of five 5+ saves against Havoc lascannons!), wounded the Tank Commander, almost killed another Basilisk, and killed about one and half squads of Cadians. I actually charged the Rhino into the Shock Trooper squad on the hill to get far enough over the line to score Engage on All Fronts; getting the Cultists onto the center objective scored me Area Denial. The Cadian turn saw their lines actually advance a little; the remaining tanks on my right pulled into line-abreast, and the Command Squad moved up to keep its vox in range. The Land Raider once again tanked all the enemy fire with no damage thanks mostly to Smokescreen, but the Rhino was peeled off the hilltop Cadians by the Basilisks' hunter-killer missiles. I lost my central Helbrute, and more Possessed. My opponent scored on his home objective and Bring It Down, ending the round on 23-8. TURN 3 I failed my battle shocks on both the Legionaries and the Possessed, so the only objectives I held were my home and the center thanks to the Cultists -- and no extra points for Empowered. That was disappointing to say the least. I drew A Tempting Target (the left objective with the Legionaries) and Behind Enemy Lines. The Helbrute moved up to hold the objective for Tempting Target, and I did lots of measuring to figure out the best place to send the Chosen. . . but in the end left them in the Land Raider. Until I could kill the Leman Russes, they'd be exposed and I didn't want them butchered before getting into charge range of something. I finished killing off some more infantry, while my Havocs finally put paid to the Baneblade. The Land Raider whiffed on the Tank Commander, though that second Helbrute finished off the wounded Basilisk with its lascannons. At this point, we called the game. I had a family issue crop up, but my opponent wasn't too thrilled at his prospects -- he'd lost almost all his infantry, two thirds of his artillery, his super-heavy, and was down by 20 points. While we packed up, I went ahead and mentally calculated out the most probably results of the next two and a half turns. I figured I'd lose the Legionaries and Sorcerer, maybe the Cultists and/or Havocs, but I had enough forward momentum -- not to mention two squads that hadn't even hit the table yet! -- that I figured on the following results: GAME SUMMARY Like I mentioned earlier, there was a bunch of back and forth about tactics, fire priority, and the need to maneuver, so hopefully my opponent takes some of those lessons to heart. He understood the points I was making, he was just very down on his dice luck and determined to play into a "Guard defend things" theme. I, on the other hand, learned that Leman Russ battle cannons are very good against Possessed, and Prescience doesn't do much to defend against a full artillery battery. I really wanted to sprint my Possessed into the tank line and let Devastating Wounds do its thing, but without cover and slowed by the Earthshaker rounds the best route was really to crouch behind those containers and just score points. As I'm typing this, I realized that I completely forgot about the Icons on the infantry squads giving me rerolls for my Dark Pact Leadership checks. . . so maybe I'd have scored higher on Round 3. Lesson learned there, too. The repulse of the Loyalist raid on Rorke's Ford was damaging to their strategy, though not fatal. Now that Crusade command knew of the Alpha Legion presence, they could adjust to suit -- or at least attempt to do so, as that Legion was notorious for its ability to surprise opponents. More importantly, the destruction of the Cadian armor column had torn away a large portion of the flank shield the Loyalists had thrown up to protect the Iron Hands' own thrust towards the Capitolis. If the Traitors could capitalize on this, they could restore the breach in the Davidian Line and pin the Iron Hands against the hive fortifications.

I only hit the last page on the thread, but these two have basically stated everything I'd like to say on the topic.

The easiest way to turn Suppressors into a multi-unit option is to swap those short-barrel autocannons for lastalons (which are short-barreled lascannons). So I think that's where we'll see those come back on Primaris infantry. Now, if we get an Eradicator-ish unit with grav cannons I'd be okay with it. I still want another grav unit for close combat to supplement Aggressors, though, I'm starting to think that's a pipe dream.