N1SB

Brother Reinhard, it's actually really good you raised this point and you did so well. Because looking back, that nerd rage has been incorporated into the lore exactly as like the Brother Penitent said...but it's like such a meta-joke. You said fan fiction, it was fiction ABOUT the fandom's reaction. To their credit, the Black Library writers incorporated it well, like there was prejudice against the Greyshields and there was this early Primaris Dark Angel Interrogator Chaplain that just had a nervous breakdown because his heavy indoctrination couldn't even accept the concept of the Fallen. But it's a reminder of what 40k is. Put another way, would it be grimdark if there wasn't Primaris Derangement Syndrome? In fact...the Imperium might be one giant Derangement Syndrome, about everything. It's the only thing holding it together. And that leads to another really great point: I bring good news that support you idea. You don't have to change a thing. What you described has been an ongoing theme from even the start of the Horus Heresy novels with Horus Rising, but it was mid-Siege of Terra with Saturnine where it ramps up. Turns out throughout the millennia, the Emperor had these friends around him who gradually thought he was going too far and were trying to intervene. They were all immortal (not invincible, but didn't age) Perpetuals like him: Ollanius Persson, Erda and, at the end, even Malcador, who all questioned "The Great Work". In short, what you suggested isn't even an alternate timeline. It IS this timeline. It's not just the traitors that are tragic figures, the loyalists were, too. Everyone is. The Emperor still made a sacrifice. It's also karmic justice, maybe even fate. That's all THIS timeline. But perhaps a word you guys understand better than me would fit: this is the Emperor's penance. Also a really good thing you mentioned that, as I finished the Horus Heresy series and am re-reading Horus Rising again. An old man is talking to a Marine, the very one who was there when Horus killed the Emperor...BOTH times, "You could have left us alone." His simple statement is sinister with your question in mind. The most grimdark scenario might not be what we have now, where the Emperor tried, and failed, so everything sucks. The most grimdark scenario might be if he had succeeded, and everything still sucks...because none of it even mattered. The Emperor, the Legions, the Primarchs could have left everything alone, and it'd have turned out about the same, maybe. But your point rings true to me at least. Because if Marines didn't exist...which I personally estimate to be half of Games Workshop's business now...GONE, then likely GW wouldn't exist, probably Warhammer in general would have been discontinued...ergo, there would not even be 40k anymore. I think you're certainly right in that regard. Edit - I just remembered the quote, "The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed." That's THIS. I understand it now. All of it. +++++ Brother Kaede, just to make sure you caught this, your ideas are good, you don't even need to consider an alternate timeline. This one works JUST fine, if anything, your ideas might capture the original concept of 40k better than the current direction.

My friend Timperial Guard came back with a lot of souvenirs. Like a Bugman's whiskey flask, rare miniatures, etc. So in case you haven't already planned it, leave enough luggage space for your haul home. Also a budget for it!

Brilliant. I had considered Rapturous Sensation Dominion just to give them a bit more Movement, a minor buff but one that'll help them the most, but I hadn't even thought about the Mechanicum Heterodox Cybertheurgist. That even provides the Narrative idea of a Heretech taking the youngest, newest Dominion thinking they're the most malleable/manipulatable empyreal force to experiment with. +++++ Totally different topic, going back to the Militias PDF, one of my local friends pointed out the Heavy Rocket Bombard with the Heavy Ordnance Battery, then I recently saw some YouTube video come up on my feed talking about it. Basically big 7" pie plates of Suppression. Any thoughts about that pls? Pretty cheap before HQ tax.

I was re-reading the Horus Heresy novels. Found something relevant to your interests in Master of Mankind by our Frater, ADB. It's a conversation between a Blood Angel, Zephon, and a Techpriest, Arkhan Land (of Land's Raider, Land's Speeder, etc.) I'll share the dialogue verbatim. Arkhan Land starts: Land is referring to Sanguinius and his legion genetically looking like Renaissance paintings of angels or something. From a Techpriest perspective, it's like, how does that even happen? Did the Emperor and his geneticists, like Astarte and Sedayne and Erda, inject a handsome gene into their DNA? Now Land had JUST praised Zephon for his beauty...then immediately made it clear he was NOT romantically interested or anything. He wasn't focusing on the angelic winged aspect, just why would anyone go out of their way to make genetic supersoldiers in power armour, with helmets covering their faces, so good-looking. He added that ending remark, "not very secular," in the same way I might follow a question with, "...I'm just asking for research purposes/a friend." Zephon's reaction even before his response was particularly interesting: Land had been commenting on Zephon's dashing good looks, but the Blood Angel was thinking about the angelic aspect, because it's from his past experiences talking to people. But if he's had these past experiences talking to people, then the idea of angels must have been a common thing, even BEFORE the Ecclesiarchy made things like bionic cupids a thing. Even as they were imposing the Imperial Truth, stomping out religion...people knew of common religious icons, probably stemming from their shared culture on Terra. Then Zephon said: So Warhammer Fantasy is like the Holy Roman Empire (which was more German, Italian or Burgundy than Holy, Roman or indeed an Empire), but the fact that Zephon had talked to other people "on many occasions before" meant people at least knew about these "religious similarities". So people at least knew about the religious imagery that the Blood Angel(s) resembled, to the point that they would ask, did the Emperor deliberately model Sanguinius and his legion after that likeness. +++++ In short, YOUR idea of Space Marines resembling Christian angels was indeed a thing IN-UNIVERSE, intradiegeticly. People in the Imperium had clearly thought about the Emperor did it deliberately with the Blood Angels. Some actually had come up to one of them stationed on Earth, Zephon, to ask him awkwardly if this was the case, because his reaction suggests this type of discussion came up all the time. Whether the Emperor, whose story kinda echoes a number of those found in the Bible, but as different characters (son of Abel, someone who toppled the Tower of Babel) was just using those myths to his own ends or is actually part of them...it can be Either OR, it can be And Also...not that unreasonable. Whatever the case may be, leave it open-ended. Those Marines may believe they have a connection to this Old Earth religion. The societies they come from and protect may also believe it. But is fact? Who knows, it's 40k, it doesn't even matter if it's true, just as there are No Wolves On Fenris.

On the subject of Daemons, I previously noticed the Auxiliary Detachment for Brutes (like a Traitor Esoterist inherently unlocks 3 units of Brutes). Waited for the rules, anticipated they'd have an Ogryn statline, then noticed their Immaterial melee weapons have AP3, so they're like those Solar Auxilia Bioshock Big Daddy Ogryns. That makes Brutes decent anti-Power Armour melee, but any thoughts on their additional Chaos Dominion abilities? In short, you guys think they're any good? Mentioning it here because they're so easy to Ally with (via the Esoterist).

Honest question: since the Vindicator looks so good this edition, what config would a Predator top that pls? I was exactly hoping for something like this, except I noticed the Legion Tactics don't apply to Vehicles anymore. For example, Dreadnoughts still get to use them because they're Walkers, not Vehicles, but stuff like that. Really looking for an excuse to use a Predator or some such.

Brother Fist, thank you for preparing my army list. I will now return to the Allies For 3.0 for the last point.

We were just joking about this at the Warhammer Store, like the Militias Imperialis PDF dropped on the very last working day last month, thus fulfilling the 30k Roadmap. Oh this is good news indeed, gonna take a look, brb.

Nono, thanks for reminding us, Brothers. That lead-lag has been so long I kinda forgot about the Sons of Ubiquity and Poster Childs.

I'm listening to what you're saying about Provenances AND Unit combinations, and my mind is going to models like these, Brothers. Just some minor conversion, like replacing those Cawdor models with Skitarii heads or something, oh my cog. Oh man oh man.

Brothers, don't turn on our Brothers. I understand the confusion...because I was confused, too. I had to check with my AI tool of choice and you can, too. Ask your AI of choice about how Tariffs affect Gross Profit Margin, that's the actual term in finance, Core Gross Margin is GW's own jargon to rightly distinguish between their Core miniatures/paints/rulebooks business vs. Licensing, because they know how important Warhammer the tabletop is. Your AI will show you it goes into this fundamental bucket of Cost of Goods Sold, rather than just a tax on the consumer. And if you keep talking, the AI will show you it's the way Tariffs hit even before the goods get into the store, you have to pre-pay this tax, and that's why this cost hits the manufacturer, and ripples to us. Lastly, GW isn't profiting from this, and I think that's the point everyone was making, that's all. GW's following the laws of countries they operate in. It was a government that made these Tariffs into law...and even it is confused, I think it's going into its Supreme Court. People always talk about corporate greed, fine. But think about your own expenses if you're of working age, just a rough percentage of what you pay to whom, no single organisation will take more money from you than a government. It's gonna be like 1/3 to 1/2 goes to a government, 1/4 to rent or mortgage, then SOME of the remainder goes to Warhammer. A corporation might be an overpriced piece of wargear; a government is a Lord of War!

The opposite, but yes! They talked about price increases in their Tariff section. Brother Skylar Boodie pointed it out: I saw this really goofy thing GW did invent, like they give this Award to their top executives...but at least it gives me this handy dandy chart: Brother Inks, you've heard me go on about that 70% Core Gross Margin goal for years now. Measured in June, like June 2025. If it's below 70%, usually means GW increases prices. When it's about 70%, GW leaves it alone, wait until its own costs catches up before they do another price update (because it's unpopular). It kinda explains how we went a whole year without a price update; GW followed its own rules. (In fact, that dip in 2022/23 was when we were talking about electricity prices iirc. We were talking about melting plastic, etc.) It's at 69.5%. That was just in June. They do forecast costs anticipating their own increased costs, and Tariffs are part of that cost. +++ Just giving a check on the size of the Tariffs +++ I do this in the spirit of army list building. You like a unit, the model, the special rules...UNTIL you try to fit it into your list. And we'll keep it back of napkins maths: GW Total Revenue: £500+ million GW North American Revenue: ~40%, it's about £200+ million GW Tariffing Country Revenue: let's reservedly say half that, £100+ million Tariffs at 10%: £10+ million That doesn't sound like a lot, £10+ million, then I remembered how much Factory 4 would cost: A year's worth of Tariffs costs more than Factory 4. At some point, GW is wondering, "Why not build it in the Tariffing Country?" That's probably the political purpose of Tariffs of which I will not discuss in Imperial Compliance to B&C rules, but there is a reason; all the plastic mould injection machines, even GW's moulds themselves, I think are supposed to be Tariffed. The equipment for any factory you'd raise there are probably imports. But it's a valid question.

Brother, that's it. I was going to say, my experience with AoD is that if you went with like Votann, you'll regret not going with Squats later. Back then, we'd make these calculated choices of saving a few bucks here and there by buying a 40k plastic kit over what was then all resin 30k kits. But after a few games, when you see the other side and they all look so 30k and ours looked like we were trying to save a few bucks here and there, I wish I ponied up. Now, with good, really cool Necromunda Squat models, even that reasoning has gone to the wayside. But what you showed is even better than what I was going to suggest, perfect, that sort of idea, go for that! That's great! Edit - yo, in case you had NOT considered it already...consider painting them in 1st ed Rogue Trader Squat colours, reds & greens!

I understand both the question and the question behind the question, and they're both good. 1 image to explain it all: GW shows dollar amounts, but that is enough for someone like me. We'll look at the Decade of Decline from 2007 to 2016 mainly. GW raised prices to keep up with inflation (Tariffs are on top of that now). Economists' rule of thumb, 3%. Prices go up gradually. But from 2007 to 2016, it's flat. Prices still going up on that inflation average 3% a year...so it means sales were going down 3%. In other words, during that era, it's exactly as you think, the classic demand curve playing out. Price increases, demand drops. Even when Age of Sigmar came out, flat. It was missing things like points value. Its 1st General's Handbook fixed that, line goes up. Then 40k 8th ed came out and it went up 40%, at that point GW more than caught up with a decade's worth of price increases. And ever since then, it's been going up and up, the hype is not fabricated, Warhammer HAS been increasing in popularity. +++ The Magic Number +++ Seventy. The Magic Number is 70% Core Gross Margin, what other companies just call Gross Profit Margin. What this means: you buy something, say, a Combat Patrol costing US$100, it cost GW $30, $70 is profit. That means THOSE miniatures cost $30 with the labour, the energy costs, etc. NOT the Warhammer Store's rent. GW does not increase prices willy-nilly because they can get away with it. GW follows this formula based on its costs. GW 1st finds every price reduction on their end. Then when they cut until they can cut no more, they increase prices. That 70% is high! It's at a level of Tech Giants and, oddly, LEGOs. But GW doesn't just increase prices for the sake of it. And you're right to ask. Here's why. Tariffs are just part of this Core Gross (Profit) Margin formula. That's why I'm sure. +++++ Brothers, my fellow Veterans of the Long War, you know how I've been saying about this 70% formula? It's that reason I'm saying Tariffs are part of it. I always said GW followed this code of Honour Among Thieves, Tariffs are part of this same thing that we've come to understand. That's why I say it. And I understand your incredulity because EVEN I had forgotten it's a thing, then I was like "oooh...shucks." Edit - you guys are also saying it's other stuff, like the regular annual price increases. Yes, yes yes yes yes yes you're absolutely right, it's those TOO, and Tariffs on top. It's the regular price increases, because GW's own input costs are increasing, inflation happens to everyone, then Tariffs as well. Not an IF THEN, but an AND statement. It all goes into the calculation, and it sucks.

I can't find my book! So we'll have to rely on Brother Gillyfish. I -do- have my cards. I played Tau (never thought I would) and I've got all these Turret Platforms. They're ALL Structure 2. They got different point values, different FPR firing thingies, all DMG 5+, Effective Altitude of different values and Ground-to-Air Fire, but all Structure 2. Suggests Structure 2 is like the baseline for military targets...kinda makes sense. I did do a Bombing Run mission and IIRC instead of bombing, I hovered low, shot them with my Railguns (with the To Hit penalty). It was easier for me. I forget if it was against Imperials or Orks, but it was pretty funny. That might be a solution, instead of homebrewing, you can use the actual Turrets from the game to simulate bombing targets. Like it's actually a munitions factory with an anti-air defense on the roof, precisely because they expect to be bombed. They make the shells, so they'll just take them to the roof when enemy aircraft are detected.