temneb

I'm all about the metior hammers for my Rampagers. Wounding on 2's, striking first and ID on the charge with the right warlord trait, goes a long way to making up for the loss of attacks and lower rend.

I love the Chaplin, but as a supporting character. I feel the rites of war add to much to pass up. So I always run a deligatas or Preator.

Jesus 5 on the charge get close. 10 no problem 15 will take 2.

Power lances and falax on the sgt. Your likely to remove a bunch of armour 3 models before they get a strike. Unless their 3rd legion, or are armed similarly. I'm actually thinking 15 Rampagers is too much killing. 10 is where I'm going to sit. Or a bunch of 5 man units.

Jesus, that table has changed since 7th ed? That makes metior hammers much better than I thought. Also falax on the charge with Rampagers, all wounding marines on 2's.... Yeah that changes the math. I'm still going to use them. Might keep my axes now though. Will have to re think my plan.

The -1 strength on a power fist would reduce the wound roll to 3+ though, unless some how you get a are 9 power fist. So still id, but wounding at str 7. Unless I'm missing something. I'm saying butchers are a grinding unit now. I think they hold up if we get the charge off, and strike at I against an I1 weapon unit.

I'm not sure that butchers are that aweful. 5 with double claws, 31 attacks on the charge, 26 if disordered, rerols failed hits and wounds. Rending on 6s. Hits on 3s mostly 27.5 ish hits, 20 wounds, 6-7 at ap2. Will knock 2-3 cataphractii, at initiative. Say they get to swing back at i1 with fists. 6 attacks, hitting on 3, 4 hits, wounding on 3's due to the -1 str. 3 wounds. 1.5 guys die on the swing back. They really shine against large blobs and veterans. And if you send in a beserker preator with paragon and the -2 ld, they'll do work. But they need a delivery system.

I've settled on some seeker squads with chain bayonets for that. More chance of getting a couple of wounds through. In case of apoths and attached characters.

How are we arming our preators/ champions? Is 10 points worth it for an extra specalist weapon attack? Or are we taking pistols? Shot guns seem like a good option for a cheap hail Mary at cocusive.

Despoilers are going to be my base too, but I'm struggling with the spite of the legion though. I think the best way is to remove the characters, then pinning is easier with the rotor. With out the spite, it can't be proc'd after charging with a challenge and higher initiative, at least their cheap, but I'm not counting on them getting that 5th attack.

Really shot guns are part of my strategy as a WE. Dropping the WS of an opponent increases your survivability significantl.... But to the main topic. I think it depends really on what you're trying to achieve. I'm personally going with rotor cannon four pinning, and using seekers as character removal to guarantee I get that juicy extra attack on my despoilers. I wouldn't waist points putting nemesis on seekers. With precision shots and breaching 4 native while allowing movement. Just doesnt seen worth it.

I think their roll has changed, power armour deleters. Squad of 5 with claws. Sadly their our only native way to get hatred now. Send them towards the largest line unit you can find and watch them evaporate. With all the rending and ap2 on the charge at initiative or above, I think they struggle as armour 2 beat sticks. Can't even give them fnp without Angron anymore.

I agree as a missile unit, one and done, falax are better into marines or unwieldy. But if you want them to survive, the hammer is above the falax. I'm planning a 15 strong jump unit

How does Khârn give instant death? Hammers are my pick as all rounders. With falax on any and all Sgts. Striking at I5 and preventing swing back is very important. Makes them better than falax in my opinion. The barbed hook is strictly better against non vehicles, but the hammers give you versatility.

I'll play around with it, but I think the speed of Bezerker will be where I end up. I've got a Rampager and butcher squad, may go for a second Rampager. I'm going with metior hammers and a couple of falax mixed in for challenges. I figure the striking first ap2 on 5 is better than getting struck back. I think hammers over the lash to give you a chance to do shine damage to vechles. Thoughts? All my sgts will get falax