karden00

No one giving any love for Nemesis? I know it isn't widely popular, but I enjoyed it, and it has some Rogue Trader elements.

That's so cool

I thought this thread was about Majorkill’s new calendar.

Any idea when this book will come available? Ebook or otherwise?

Unbe:cussinglievable

Man, not since reading the spoilers for Praetorian of Dorn have I regretted reading a spoiler on here so much. I won’t read any more of these threads till Dan the Man closes out the series.

The audio isn’t out till March 28 and that makes me a very sad panda.

I enjoyed this! Vazzy, what lore did this change? Just the conquest of Illyrium? This was hardly significant lore, and the lore change was justifiied in the telling of the story. Here's what has my head scratching. It is post-Unremembered Empire, but set during the Heresy, as Euten is still alive. Buuuuut the Macragge's Honour, at the time of the Heresy, is still unaccounted for, as it chased Kor Phaeron and the Infidus Imperator into the warp, a la Macragge's Honour. Unless I am missing something, this is another unfortunate slip up in lore continuity. Nevertheless, still quite an enjoyable listen, especially for $3!

I’m guessing this will tackle the Grey Knights/maybe Knights Errant? Saturnine May reference the old fleets stationer there, but my money is on its link to Titan.

Any mention of Arik Taranis or Ghota? Or efforts among the thunder warriors to stabilize themselves? While I don’t love that Primarchs in this case are big standards, I don’t mind at all that their organization foreshadows the legions so much. It’s old, established fluff that the legions were based on the thunder warrior model. Iirc, the very use of the term legion/chapter was a direct throwback.

It really grinds my gears that the Thane/Dantalion debacle exists, and I truly feel the book should be marked down, even a token 5%. For anyone that has invested the time, attention, and money in three series’ of books, this is a bummer. A real bummer. If a fan can pick it up, an author/editor/editing board/secret cabal of authors should have yawned it out of existence.

The healing powers of the Primarchs (whilst impressive) have remained vague. Ferrus Manus, Alpharius and Kurze were all killed in fairly conventional means, albeit decapitation is a pretty decisive means of ensuring death. Sanguinius is unclear as we don't have a modern HH view of how he died (yet) but if Horus was powerful enough to mortally wound the Emperor, killing Sangy is no big stretch. Primarchs clearly do have limits though. Angron's Nails were slowly killing him, in spite of his healing abilities. Furthermore, the Emperor realised that even he could not remove the Nails without killing Angron on the operating table. Vulkan of course is the odd-man-out as he is a Perpetual and capable of total physical regeneration. He healed after falling from orbit, despite being reduce to a charred skeleton in the process. We don't know what level the Emperor is at. All Perpetuals have their own rules. Some appear to have infinite lifespan until killed. Others can come back from death. Alivia Sureka was even capable of resurrecting in an entirely different place after she was killed by Horus. We don't know what rules apply to the Emperor. One thing is clear though, he doesn't seem to want to be unplugged. He spoke to Guilliman and didn't tell him to turn the Throne off so his decision to stay seems to be a deliberate one. One possibility is he knows or fears that he would not regenerate if that happened. The other is that he could heal but in the time it took him to do so, all hell would quite literally break lose through the shattered portal. Possibly preserving Terra, the Astronomicon and the primary astropathic choir are more important to the Imperium than his ability to get up and walk around again. Sureka wasn't resurrected in a different place after Horus killed her, she awoke at the obsidian gate where Horus clawed her. I agree with you though that the Emps definitely wants to stay on the throne. Can someone quote this? I seem to remember being puzzled as well about how she seemed to be back with the people she knew after being talon’d.

I started UM back in mid 2nd edition because I Łövéd how blue space marines looked. The first kit I ever bought came at the recommendation of a salesman who pointed me to the 2nd edition box of ... chaos space marines ... (I’ve already answered to the Inquisition, so nothing to worry about) The Second Edition Big Box is a thing of true beauty, and yes, back then, red was in. To my youthful eye, unaided by access to the internet (if it even existed then), there was little to no push from GW towards the UM. The most we got was the blurb in the 2nd ed codex about how they are the greatest chapter of space marines. Then third dropped, and I have to say, as an avid UM player, I never felt like we got any love from GW at all. Third was a big shift from second. Gone we’re the paint factory explosions of colour that characterized the Orks. Gone were the Squats. The BRB had a bestiary for every unit in the game, and even the mightiest space marines were incredibly soft. The Codex allowed for a lot of specialization, however, and more or less any home brewed character could lay out Marneus Calgar in his sleep. When Chapter Approved: Index Astartes came a knocking, and every chapter got fleshed our histories, chapter-wise rules, and special characters, the UM got.... nothing. We were/are the vanilla chapter. Tyrannic War Veterans aside (I never bought them, never once used them, despite my most regular opponent being Tyranid with a serious hate-on for anything blue) IA told us quite clearly that our strength was that we were jack of all trades, good (as good as literally Any Other Marine) at everything, but great at nothing. I never played a game of 4th, 7th, or 8th. I cannot speak to most of the mechanics, but it was 4th when we came into the spotlight. I remember my regular Tyrannic opponent dabbled in Space Marines, and I loved when he picked up the new Calgar and got the Armour of Antilochus. And how he was better than a way bs 5, s t 4, w4, I5 pushover and was now kind of a tough cookie. This was when I started to feel the marketing love from GW. And I suppose this hasn’t really let up much since. We’ve been in how many starter boxes since? And how many unit boxes? Were UM the guys on The cover of the 3rd edition tactical squad box? I do t remember, but there’s no question they dominate boxes nowadays. On another note, I’ve always felt that the other three of the big four, and even others like the Sallies and BTs have always had a Huge leg up on us. Just to see what would happen, I once played a game against a regular Tyranid opponent where I used my blue models as a BA army list. Back then, storm ravens were still exclusively BA, but I had bought one because they hinted so strongly that other chapters would get them. I called it the Blue Raven and it didn’t shoot blood missiles, it shot blue missiles. I included the Sanguinor (calling him the Blueguinor). I tabled the nids in two turns. The Bluerioso dreadnought with a pair of blue talons ate a carnifex in one round of combat, and then ate a trygon. We did the whole thing to show that while our normal games were always fairly competitive, another list (granted one he was not used to playing against), but he saw the codex and knew what my units could do and... I just couldnt help but feel that when you’re used to playing with vanilla marines, the things you can do with a specialized list are... I dunno, rather comical. So how do I objectively comment on ‘getting the love’ from GW when other armies are given insane amounts of buffs in the rules. When you buy BA units, you usually get red armoured dudes on the box.

Hahaha my bad! King-Ship! Mod, maybe redo that? Re it being the Furious Abyss...there would be exactly one dead Ultramarine, who would very likely have little to no remains after the explosion that took it out... But I wanted to talk more about how people feel about the place and role they have within the story, not get too caught up in the details of what happened to them. Did they fulfill their narrative role within Betrayer, and seem out of place at this point in the story? They seemed to be super weapons that the Imperials don’t seem to have a counter for. Would’ve been pretty fitting to see the two of them spearhead into the Sol System.

So, ADB did a beautiful job of rehabilitating the idea of a game-changing ship that started with the Furious Abyss and developed into the Blessed Lady and Trisagion. While the Furious Abyss was something of a joke, the later two sister vessels felt like actual threats. In Betrayer, they are introduced wonderfully, but far more importantly, they are described as very real players in the void war around Ultramar. At one point, a character in Betrayer more or less states that the only reason the traitors are successful against a retaliating fleet of Ultramarines is because of the presence of one (or was it two? I cannot recall and do not have the book handy) of those ships. Lorgar boasts that they would easily prove a match for even the Phalanx. Now lets remember, these are opinions of characters within the book, not statements of outright fact. Then we had a neat little description of the Salamanders leaving Ultramar in one of the Vulkan Lives books, where the skeleton of an unknown and exceedingly large ship is observed. I took it to be one of the two newer Kingships, but it was all very odd. Surely as the Shadow Crusade wrecked Ultramar, word would've gotten out about the existence and threat of these two ships. So for the Sallies to not know what ship this could have been, either suggests sloppy writing continuity or a different ship alltogether....Aaanyway. I do not recall of in Slaves to Darkness either of the ships are mentioned. Lorgar featured quite a bit in the book, but I don't remember reading much about his pimped out ride. I am about halfway through Solar War, so I dont know if they pop up or are even mentioned, given that Lorgar has been removed from the Siege so far by a very unhappy Horus. Now that we've gotten accounts (and lack thereof) of the Kingships out of the way, I wanted to know what people thought of the two Kingships. I thought ADB did a masterful job at reintroducing the concept of singular (okay, there are two of them) ships being major strategic assets that fundamentally shift the outcome of naval warfare. How often in sci fi are superweapons cliched and ultimately goofy plot devices? Do all of you agree that one or two of these ships could feature very significantly and/or very coolly in an upcoming novel? It seems a shame to just leave the idea by the wayside.