TrashMan

LOL Who's Cyphus?

Oh, question to you DA experts. Lets supose a original DA libby survived (Avernus)...and he reports back to the DA about what happened. DA are unhappy about the mutation. Order Avernus to not tell them anything about the Fallen. He is to keep an eye untill they decide what to do. Yet it turns out Avernus mutated too. How would the DA react? Would they allow the librarian to live? Would they drop him like a hot potato? Would there be a measure of trust left? Would they leave him permanantly in the babysitter position, effectively using him as a spy but also dropping him from their own chapter for all intents and purposes? Would he see it as punishment? Betrayl?

The Exemplar pretty much provide long-range support, scouting and sniping, so they are not in as big as danger as proper Astartes. I could have the gene-seed grown by select chapter serfs. Or I could have the chosen individuals taken off active duty till the progenoids mature. The point of using Exemplar is that they are deemed "worthy", being former aspirants and potential future marine replacements. Either way, it's a numbers game. The more gene-seed you implant and grow, the more you have to re-plant and grow again. It scales exponentially. If a single pair can produce 1000 organs in 55 years, you are basicly doubling every 5 years. 2^10 = 1024. Seems about right. Given that, using this technique you can't possibly run out of gene-seed...makes you wonder why some chapters have problems with gene-seed.

I think they are in paralisis because they are test-SLAVES and the AdMech don't give a damn about those meatsacks. I don't think it was implied or mentioned anywhere that being paralyzed was a requirement for gene-seed growing.

Ok, toying with two more ideas here. 1) The chief librarian is one of the trianing cadre. He is ordered by the DA to keep tabs on the chapter and not speak of the Fallen, but he is also struck by the mutation. Possibiltiy of intruige and betrayl. Split loyaliites? Resentment towards the DA for basicly abandoning him too? 2) The Guard Examplar serve a double role. Not only as support, but also for gene-seed production. Remeber how the mutation causes a higher implant rejection rate? Well, to combat it I was thinking doing what the AdMech does when it creates a chapter - farm gene-seed using test slaves. Except not unworthy test-slaves forced to do so, but prime stock humans, potential astartes themselves, who consider it a honor to carry the progenoids. It neatly circumvents the "1000 astartes" rule and the problem with astartest generally being in heavy, geavy combat (and usually an injury that kills an astartes destroys the gene-seed) and the slow gene-seed production.

Hmmm..... not bad. There's something that kinda bugs me... Like there's a too much stuff... too many mutations.. too many similarities with other curses. Also needs proof-reading.

Necroing this thread because I finally got around to fixing the chapter history to better explain their mentality I added some Ultras influence and got rid of the whole "presence in the warp" thing. ********************************** Initally named Angels of Fire, this Dark Angel sucessor chapter has had a disasterous start. Shortly after it's creation, the chapter fleet and the DA training cadre was to make way to their newly assigned homeworld at the far edges of Segmentum Ultima where they would complete the training. Mere moments after entering the warp, the fleet was attacked by a chaos war fleet and beset by deamons. Exit from the warp was impossible and the geller fields were malfunctioning. A desperate battle to repel boarders followed, lasting for days. Astartes and man alike fought against a neverending horde of hellish nightmares. They sold their lives dearly, but to no avail. Just when it looked like all hope was lost, the warp relaxed it's grip. That small window of opportunity is all the chapter needed to escape the warp. But the forces of chaos followed in persuit. Answering the chapters call for help, a nearby Ultramarine strike force joined the fray, screening the retreating vessels. The chaos fleet finally fled when an imperial navy battlefleet transited in-system. The day was won, but more than 3/4 of the chapter was lost, along with the command battle barge and all senior commanders and almost the entire training cadre. The Ultramarines, who suffered moderate losses in their defense, offered to escort the battered ships to their destination and strong bonds and oaths were formed that day. But the immaterium played two final tricks on them. As far as the rest of the universe knew, because of the chaotic nature of the warp, they were missing for 300 years. And most shockingly of all, the exposure to potent warp energies caused mutations in the gene-seed, the full extent and implication of which were not yet clear. The two survivors of the training cadre, the only holders of the secrets of the Dark Angels, viewed the mutations with suspicion. Beliving the chapter is doomed as their tainted geneseed, they returned to their parent chapter as soon as possible to report back. The Dark Angels made a decision: The Phoenix Knights are corrupt and unworthy inheritors; the Unforgiven must not be sullied by association with such marines. They must not be permitted into the fold, and cannot be entrusted with knowledge of the Fallen. While that was going on, it was time for the survivors to decide what to do, and most looked at Librarian Avernus Sidh for guidance. Yet he in turned deffered to Arturian Draco, the young but promising captain and gifted orator and diplomat. After a lot of deliberation, Arturian turned to those that helped his chapter before - the Ultramarines. Traveling to Macragge to personally ask for aid, he was impressed by the efficiency and glory of Ultramar and granted an audience with the Lord of Macragge. The Ultramarines helped with supplies and even offered five of their own number to help train new recruits - an offer Arturian graciously accepted, and one that will shape the future of the chapter. Arturian followed Calgars adivice and quickly contacted the Mechanicus, worried about the chapters future if the geneseed were to degrade irrevocably. The tech-priests of Mars relished in the opportunity to perform tests and study the effects of these mutations, and Arturians pledge to support the Mechanicus also helped. The gene-seed degradation turned out to be far less severe than the DA thought and was quickly stabilised. Instead of dying out, the chapter survived and thrived. But the abandoment from their parent chapter had a far more important impact on the Phoenix Knights. Without any guadance or supervision from the DA, Arturian was free to change the chapter is ways that would be impossible otherwise - to forge a new identity and purpose.

I like your Chapter.

Funnily enough TIM isn't even a xenophobe...But within the 40K universe pretty much everyone is.

Made a small edit to the first post, but the link is still the best and freshest source of info. Easier for me to mantain and keep track of 1 source.

Added your proposals on the guard and your explanations for the friction between the DA and PK, as well as gene-seed degradation and AdMech to the Wiki. The "lost in the warp" part is still there, unless I can come up with something else.. Hmm..I could use the "stuck on a planet caught in the warpstorm" plot, but it's cliche too.

It's my experience that while coincidence isn't exactly a sin in writing, large amounts of coincidence (especially plot-convenient coincidence) are best avoided. If you choose the route of distrust due to mutation, it requires less contrivance on your part than a miraculous twist of fate wiping out exactly enough of the founding cadre at exactly the right time so your chapter knows they're of the Lion but knows nothing of the Fallen. You make a good point, but isn't the training cadre only a few men? The Inner Circle is always kept small in the DA, and when you loose 4/5'ths of the chapter is it really so hard to belive that that dozen was among the dead? Not bad, not bad. I may yet run with that. I know "lost in the warp" is cliche, but IMHO it kinda feels like it gives the right note. Not only because it explains the mutations (exposure to warp energies), but also the loss of so many (who is more fearsome opponent than demons? Who to break the will and cause dispair more?) and the paraonia (for a whole fleet to be stuck in the warp and attacked at precisely that time...there msut be some traitor behind it). Also missing 300 years of history explains the paranoia and desire to gather information even more. I'm not sure the AdMech is so keen to give away it's secrets, especially not fast. Starship take long ot build, and with AdMEch technolgoy takes even longer to analyze. Is it too silly to assume the AdMech may take hunderds of yers to analyze, test and re-test a design before they even THINK about putting it in mass production? Didn't they dwell for severl hunderd years on the Land Raider Crusader? Doesn't that explain why it's not being produced and won't be in near future?

Heh...brother Dager, cliches and tropes are onlny bad if they are not used properly.... as such I won't avoid "cliches" if I think I can use them effectively. :P If I manage to do see remains to be seen tough. Thanks you for your criticism. Some of your notes are excellent and I do plan on acting on them. That said, I don't know if you followed the link or read just whats in the first post (since I update the link, not hte post), but some clarification is in order. - Tragedy and recovery were involved, and it is one of the cornerstones of PK's beliefs. But going into details is something for a novel or short story, not a IA. Altough I probably should add something more about it. - The Chapter does know they are the sons of the Lion, but they do not know of the Fallen. Remeber, alssot the entire chapter was wiped out, including the entire inner circle. However, the mistrust because of mutation is also a great explanation...question is, which is better? - Regarding the Chapter Master, he is indeed, weaker on the battlefield than your average super-dupah-chapter master. Devoting so much time to governing and diplomacy has to take it's toll somewhere. He's not seen on the battlefield much, delegating most of tht stuff to his captains. - the Guard Exemplar are modeled after Luther and his knights (False Astartes) from the Dark Angels. Since the PK dont' know about Luther... - I never specified that the battleship was beyond the AdMech grasp. Jsut that it was ancient. The AdMech had it, repaired it, analzyed it..and it still does. Several Magoses are permanantly stationed on the ship, as part of the deal between the chapter and AdMech.

Stuborn - check paranoia - check hubris - more or less...check That fits Arturian and my marines. The only difference is being good at reading people, of which Arturian is a bigger exception. But frankly, I suspect many things that were going on with the primarch and their "chidlren" have more to do with their upbringing than with the geneseed. One of these thing is being able to read people. This is learned abilty, and marines don't spend enough time socilizing with humans to pick it up.

I just love that Craftworls..and it's name "Light from darkness". But yea...gonna change it back to my own craftworld. Also, does Arturians abiltiy to easily read poeple seem too much? I really want him to be a manipulatr/diplomat/ruler...magnificent bastard, machiavellian type. That means reading and understanding peopel's body language and emotions - and hiding his. However, this is something space marines are definately NOT known for.