depthcharge12

The End and the Death series was a waste of pages and I don’t feel any closer to the epic conclusion that should have been. This writing almost doesn’t feel like Abnett (contrast with his style in Gaunt’s Ghosts and Legion) and I’m not sure if I am coping that he could have just churned out three turds lol My gripes:

Just as a slight correction for those that might have not noticed, Black Reaving lets units get rage if that enemy unit is the target of at least one other charge, it does not have to be already engaged. I think this is huge and a lot of people down play/minmax their fast attack slots which ends up hurting them. Dont be afraid to use speeders to initiate that charge stack - they tend to be quite durable and nimble. My current list at 3k is: MoS Abbaddon 2 Contemptors w/lascannons+fist 5 Justaerin retinue w/banner/hammers/TLC 5 Justaerin w/Carsoran Tabars 8 vets in a pod with a mix of power swords, Carsoran weapons, and all with banestrike in a pod 2x10 inductii despoilers with chainaxes 2x10 tacticals in rhinos Javelin w/ML and MM Javelin w/ML and MM 3 Jetbikes w/volkite 10 lascannon HSS Sicaran Arcus The two squads of Justaerin + vets drop with Abby in the backfield. MoS gives reserve rerolls and +1 BS to HSS. Despoilers run up the field with Contemptors to gain their inductii bonus and support the elites. Tacticals grab backfield objectives. Javelins and bikes add ranged support, and can charge in a pinch to proc rage. My .02 on our units…leave reavers at home and take vets if you want something instead. They are far too overcosted. Justaerin are still good and do their thing, but really only shine in Black Reaving from all the bonuses. Don’t leave home without Abby. Chieftains seem alright but can get expensive quick and need a raider baked into their overall cost. Inductii I’m still on the fence as I have not had any games with them yet.

@Jings I’ve played with a squad of 2 proteus landspeeders in two different tournaments this edition (Adepticon and Bugeater). I run double grav on them and most people underestimate them or ignore them all together. They can really strip wounds off of contemptors (the apex predator of this edition) and pee in people’s cheerios with difficult/dangerous terrain markers. Don’t forget how fast they are either - those 16” let you redeploy across large swathes of the battlefield. I’d highly recommend running a squad of 2 with two grav guns (if you don’t have the bits, they should be cheap on eBay/etsy). Every match, they and my single lascannon javelin end up putting in a ton of work.

259 pages in and the groups that said, quite literally in the preceding chapter, “we shouldn’t be here” or “time no worky” are just repeating the same damn lines as they Mario pipe warp around the theater. I just got done rereading another Abnett book, the first of the Gaunt’s Ghost series, and this book seems phoned in by comparison. I’m half convinced it was written by ChatGPT. In GG, every chapter has meaning and drives the plot. This…this is a strong enough filler, the Kardashians could inject it into their lips

Me looking through the Dramatis Personae for Falkus Kibre who gets nuked by Abnett despite showing up twice in ADB’s 40k books. I’m worried that this book is going to just go on and on and drag out what should be wrapped up. I’ve gotten to the point I just skip over entire plot lines in the siege especially pertaining to the humans…it’s just boring filler.

I know it is verboten here, but I suspect that this is due to heresy gamers buying recasts and doing their own 3d prints. Many of the guys I game with have fully non FW/GW armies. Their main reasoning: cost. The hobby being expensive comes at a surprise to no one, but it’s hit that tipping point of people finding alternatives instead of buying the flagship product. I don’t have an inside cost accounting perspective into GW to say whether their price structure is “fair,” but that doesn’t matter either way as the crowd would rather find alternatives. Ironically, I find the only way GW might be able to generate more sales is newer units/models that give them a lead time before the 3d modelers and recasters have a chance to catch up. I think even the most penny pinching of the heresy crowd will shell out for a FW/GW new unit if it has enough allure. TLDR: Make the dang Isstvaan drop legion praetors already :P it’s been 10 years.

They did quite well in my opinion. I tried to stay away from running maximal fire all the time except when I needed to double out models. Aiolos missiles do a good job with pinning. I normally forget the heavy bolters but they are 4 shots now and it embarrasses people when they get a kill lol. Overall, pretty survivable and put out a good amount of firepower. My next list will look nearly identical, but I trade out a tac squad for two inductii all with volkites in rhinos, drop the Cerberus for 5 lascannon marines, and swap the Delegatus for a thunder hammer chaplain. I’m going no RoW and seeing how that works out :)

So I ran a 3k Firewing list (list copied below) for the Bugeater Heresy event and here are my thoughts: 1) Priority target wound up biting me in the butt partially because our event had some very fun and thematic objectives to focus on. Even trying to whittle one target down at a time was tough because there were other threats on the table that needed dealing with first. If I brought a more cheesy list (spam heavy support squads, recon, dreads) I might have been able to prevent giving up more VPs here. 2) Infiltrating troops units is cash money. Alpha legion does it right. I would be able to counter deploy or even drop my units in a corner of the board on my opponent’s side that they neglected. As tacticals don’t generally look like a big threat, they survive quite long and put out some heat. I killed a few predators by shooting them in the rear with bolters, and ground down other valuable units. This I will miss the most if I switch to a different wing/RoW. 3) [Special Units] Interemptors are nasty, but I think they work better as a psychological tool. I rarely got the chance to put them to their full effect, but they worked great to pull fire from my Cenobium. Firewing Enigmatii are a fun unit but by no means competitive. They are cool to use as a “hunter killer” unit that sneaks up the board behind cover and vehicles before pouncing on a unit and dumping all their strength into it. Problem is…they really need a 2+ save or more survivability. Even bringing them on from reserves with the 4+ shrouded is not enough to keep them safe. Cenobium are Cenobium. They are scary and kick butt. I ran Hunter of beasts and it helped out against Domitars and an Ascended Angron. I think it is an under rated circle choice. I might switch to Companions with the Lion to try them out. A little less survivable, but they can sweep and get other peripheral bonuses. 4) Stand out Units: Recon marines. Take em with nemesis bolters, enough said. My sleeper unit, that a bunch of guys came to appreciate, was a squad of two proteus speeders with double grav. They were solid for ripping off wounds from Automata, Contemptors, and causing difficult terrain. I killed 6 WEs from failed terrain checks XD 5) Cerberus: did fairly well but I think its points could have been better spent on Predators or heavy support squads. I didn’t run into any Spartan deathstars it would have been useful to stop, so that could have been part of the issue. I mainly ran it as a counter to any knight shenanigans someone could have brought. Final Thoughts: Firewing is fun and gives lots of buffs, but man does not finishing off priority targets suck. I think you could accomplish it, but you’d really start turning your army into a suicide unit bonanza. I think I’m going to switch to no RoW and run it that way. Plenty of guys at the event said they were scared of my list, but I only went 1-4 lol. But great games overall, and I managed to punish a lot of lists along the way. ++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart (LA - I: Dark Angels) [3,000Pts] ++ + Expanded Army Lists + Expanded Army List Profiles:: Exemplary Units On, Legacy Units On + Allegiance: + I: Dark Angels Allegiance: Loyalist + Rite of War: + Rite of War: Serpent's Bane (DA) + HQ: + Centurion [100Pts]: Firewing, Seneschal of the Keys, Warlord . Delegatus: Artificer Armour, Pair of Lightning Claws . Delegatus + Elites: + Dreadwing Interemptor Squad [445Pts]: Artificer Armour, Interemptor Praefectus, 7x Interemptors, Plasma Incinerator . Land Raider Proteus Carrier: Twin-linked Lascannon Inner Circle Knights Cenobium [510Pts]: Firewing, Hunter of Beasts . Order Preceptor: Terranic Greatsword . Land Raider Proteus Carrier: Twin-linked Lascannon . Order Cenobites: Thunder Hammer . Order Cenobites: Terranic Greatsword . Order Cenobites: Terranic Greatsword . Order Cenobites: Thunder Hammer + Troops: + Assault Squad [175Pts]: Firewing, Infiltrate (The Serpent's Bane) . Legion Assault Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol . . Power Weapon: Power Sword . 7x Legionaries (collective): 7x Bolt Pistol, 7x Chainsword . Legionary w/ Options: Bolt Pistol, Power Sword . Legionary w/ Options: Bolt Pistol, Power Sword Reconnaissance Squad [255Pts]: Firewing . Legion Recon Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Augury Scanner, Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter . Recon Legionary: Bolt Pistol, Nemesis Bolter Tactical Squad [100Pts]: Firewing, Infiltrate (The Serpent's Bane) . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Armour . 9x Legionaries (collective): 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolter Tactical Squad [100Pts]: Firewing, Infiltrate (The Serpent's Bane) . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Armour . 9x Legionaries (collective): 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolter + Fast Attack: + Firewing Enigmatus Cabal [150Pts]: Firewing Enigmatii, Firewing Enigmatii, Firewing Enigmatii Javelin Squadron [105Pts]: Firewing . Javelin Land Speeder: 2x Lascannons, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Multi-Melta Proteus Land Speeder Squadron [170Pts]: Firewing . Proteus Land Speeder: Bolt Pistol, Graviton Gun, Graviton Gun . Proteus Land Speeder: Bolt Pistol, Graviton Gun, Graviton Gun + Heavy Support: + Deredeo Dreadnought Talon [450Pts]: Dreadwing . Legion Deredeo Dreadnought: Aiolos Missile Launcher, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter . . Hellfire Plasma Cannonade . Legion Deredeo Dreadnought: Aiolos Missile Launcher, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter . . Hellfire Plasma Cannonade + Lords of War: + Cerberus Squadron [440Pts]: Ironwing . Cerberus: 2x Lascannons, Searchlights ++ Total: [3,000Pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe

To make a Caliban pun…they grow on trees xD

Read the spoilers and was glad I didn’t pick this up. It’s marvel movie tier garbage tropes. Book had nothing to do with reintegrating with the chapter/legion of the Unforgiven or the Lion’s perspective on the new Imperium he’s dropped into. Also, there tends to be Fallen literally everywhere. The Unforgiven spend considerable time and effort chasing them down, and the Lion just trips over what, 4-5 of them in separate groups?

I’m not sure how long you’ve played 30k, so I don’t want to sound patronizing, but here’s how I create my lists: 1. Find a unit or theme you want to build around. I like legion unique units and wanted to try Firewing. 2. Once you have your fun/rule of cool unit(s), start thinking of common threats you’ll face. I.e. contemptors, tanks, large units of 3+ save marines…then plan on a way to counter those. 3. Redundancy - find room in your list to double up on a way to kill those threats in point 2. 4. Fill in your remaining list with troops. Try to shoot for 3-5 for 3k points To answer your questions: - Recon squads are great with nemesis bolters. If you are concerned with cost, you can convert 40k scout squads or find any number of 3rd party bits. Scoring (line), infiltrate, 72” range, and 5+ rending with precision shot is cash money. I think people will start wisening up to transports, but the common lascannon heavy support squad will be out on foot for you to target. - Cenobium are probably the better pick between the two, but both squads are solid. I think the Companions take a little more thinking around what you plan to load them out with. I think Cenobium also scratches that terminator itch everyone gets :)

Honestly? I’m sure it could have worked fine with recon company, but the +1 to wound against units with an IC, +1 to hit globally for priority targets, and +1 attack in cc with a PT were just so good. I had to show my opponents the overlapping rules DAs get lol. PT’s are going to be either Elites or HQs at that point, so it’s going to be against units you want to murder. Getting slay the warlord secondary objectives was just icing on the cake. I ran Firewing Cenobium to get all the bonuses, though I’m sure Deathwing would have been just as good. I did 3 swords and 2 hammers…in retrospect, I think 4 swords and a hammer would have worked out better. But that could have been skewed due to having a 1500 point list. The Preceptor slew a lightning claw WE praetor on his own by running a Terranic greatsword. Maybe I was just rolling hot? I ran my Cenobium in a triple lascannon raider, which worked in my favor. Vazzy and I had 3 raiders split between us, so that may have caused issues with target priority for our opponents. I think a smart opponent can kill it in a single turn, but the evade reaction extends its lifespan. I plan for redundancy in my list, but I think at 1500 points, most opponents only brought 1 AT unit which was odd to me.

Played Firewing for 1500 doubles at Adepticon, so here’s my initial thoughts. Firewing is powerful but a dual edged sword. In tournaments, you may only get 2-3 turns to play each round. You’ve got to prioritize and kill those targets. I gave up 3 VP first round and 6 the next, but won both rounds (Vazzy was my teammate with IF). Infiltrating line troops is great where objectives matter. Having them outflank for breakthrough (whatever it is called now to get scoring units in enemy’s deployment zone) or get in cover is still cash money. Basic marines are pretty hardy unless your opponent is running a super sweaty list. Don’t discount bolters’ ability to clear chaff. Heart of the legion makes tacticals tougher for any return fire. Recon Marines…wack. They always put in work every turn. Line, shroud bombs, and 72” 5+ rending nemesis bolters make them worth their points. Don’t ask questions, buy a squad of 10 for any force you run, then thank me later. Cenobium…or rather…the things attached to Terranic Greatswords XD Killed a squad of Red Butchers + WE praetor on the charge but for a single remaining marine. And I was running Hunter of beasts, so I can’t imagine how much better the other orders are. Also murdered 3 Castellax on the charge and would have taken out the Archmagos if it wasn’t previously locked in combat with a heroic Templar. Run a squad of them and reap the salty lamentation of nerds. Speeders…I think they fly under the radar and rarely people prioritize them. I ran double grav proteus speeders and a single lascannon Javelin. Nasty against contemptors, vehicles, and kill bots. Good dark horse choice. Firewing Cabal - I ran them because I wanted to kitbash and I played them for rule of cool haha. You have to hide them behind cover and play conservatively. They are pretty squishy, but fun to run. Don’t fire their pistols, you will only cry when you get reaction fired. Same for outflank or DS. Just don’t. Overall, like how the legion feels, and I’d imagine they only get better at higher point games that go the full turns. FYI - thought of a silly thing you can do: take Firewing Indomitus terminators as non compulsory troops, then infiltrate them. No need to buy transports, and they’d be assaulting T2 at the earliest anyway. Laugh when you drop 2 x 10 terminator bricks close to your enemy’s line.

Vox disruptor issue resolution and clarification for flyer intercept is great! Black Reaving list is a go go…even if the aggressor squads are horribly overpriced. Also, being able to advance or withdraw into a transport is kind of wild. Some new tactical implications there.

Marked as solution, they resolved it!