Calas Typhon

The moments leading to and including Mortarion were probably the more interesting parts of the book for me.

Im not going to lie, this is by far the best book I have read (Listened too in this case) by BL in a very very long time. Wraight really put out a solid book. As fitting as the Nurglings were, I was not a fan of them. Bar the small 'Critters' moment on the farm planet which was teetering on monster movie stuff, which was pretty fun. Obviously, I am massively happy with this book. It was wholly focused on the Death Guard rather than any other sub factions, and when it was someone other than the DG, It was to either forward how the DG are not as clear cut as they seem or to fill in a gap for the story to progress. Finally a minor point is that there was an awful lot of the word ':cuss' in this which was definitely a step in the right direction. This book is definitely targeted towards an older audience I really gather.

Really hope we get some more Riven Hound stuff.

I had a few hopes for this book, however I refuse to purchase anything Salamanders due to all the writing being absolute trash outside of the 40k Omnibus which I did not mind too much and a pretty great Audio-short which I can't remember the name of detailing the group of marines during the Massacre. I have a few questions with some added mess attached 1) Is it heavily Salamanders viewpoint focused? I get that Vulkan might take a bit of a backseat (Although he probably should not in his own bloody book, unless written fantastic which does not seem to be the case) but The thing that irritates me with Legion specific books, even in the actual HH series is the constant rolling to human perspectives, other Legion perspectives and descriptions rather than showing the actual Legion. Some of the best books for me were those that were heavily focused on the Legion the book was about. How they interacted with their brothers and how they themselves looked at other factions, rather than people on the outside looking in. Its why Perturabo, Flight of the Eisenstein and a little bit of Fear to Tread (as bad a wrap it gets) were pretty great. I don't want to hear about John Smith the Imperial Army Ironing Instructor getting a bit scared because some Death Guard marine looked at him like he was trash. Its one of the reasons why the books are getting a bit boring for me now and I'm lacking the will to buy new stuff outside of the things I would really be interested in. Please tell me it is at least 80% Salamanders focused. 2) Regardless of Vulkan getting a good or bad show, how are the Leigion shown, Do we finally get to see the Unbreakable Line that the Salamanders are supposed to be? Does it focus on them being lovely nice lads with the hearts of Gold who will happily titrush a Titan to save a baby from getting stomped? Or are they more what everyone would expect an actual Legion of superhuman death machines bred to exterminate the foes of the Imperium. 3) Any showings of Vulkan interacting in a decent way with his brothers?

whoo boy

Well if its the case it picks up After Desh'ea, we will have a great time with the first brother coming to Angron under the orders of the Emperor, in depth look into the nails when examined by Malcodork and lots of blood and skulls! I would like ADB to take him on, but Reynolds did some fantastic work with his post HH World Eaters, so there is some great potential with him.

Angron will more than likely have 'The Red Angel' as it was his most common title. All I can say is, I really hope its going to go into Nuceria and take off straight after After Desh'ea.

I am actually not sure about the hair to be honest, the Armour is fantastic although I am not sure about the gems down the legs

As far as I remember, it is stated as happening somewhere around the mid 800's which is an accurate time as most other Legions had their own Expiditionary fleets due to finding their Primarchs or being a certain size at that time. Russ was found in 800 which is literally right near the very start of the great crusade, 50 years would be a few decades after that. The Warhounds were literally on reserve until the Cerberus disco as far as we know with only one or two compliances participated in with the Emperor. And they were used because the Emperor was 'minded to use them' especially as pointed above, most other Legions had their own Expiditionary fleets. Most campaigns were brutally swift and the orders followed in the case of the Warhounds, and only one of the two Legions have Loss of control on a pretty bad scale attributed to them. I am not saying that the Warhounds are part of the Trifold so I presume that is a mistake, I was saying that the space wolves role in the Trifold could have been a Legion for utter destruction rather than as an Executioner force. I have gone into the recruitment, nature of the Legions and the like and lined out why I think the Warhounds would have been the candidate for Executioners if there was one needed. I think you are under the impression that I think that the Warhounds are not brutal and violent or not as much as the Space Wolves. I have stated many times already that both the Legions are similar at this point in the timeline and I am not going to do it again. I don't particularly want to go around in circles any more.

I will clarify a bit more, I was literally just going to bed as I was typing my last comment All Legions are fearless to a point and in general Heroic, But the Warhounds were literally built around it. When I say fearless, this is a Legion are infamous for titrushing literally anything with no hesitation, thats even before the nails. I keep going back to damn Cerberus but its a pretty good showing of what I mean, its a pretty classic showing of how the Legion conducts warfare. as for the Heroism, Courage was probably the word I was going for. After Desh'ea is a pretty good showing of what I mean. I know when the Warhounds were pushed into the 13th, a good 50+ years after the founding of Russ and it was one of the reasons they were chosen for the Cerberus campaign was because they were not a part of an expeditionary fleet at the time. I am fully aware that they were treated differently before. I was mainly talking about the fact that there were different reasoning behind why either legions would be held back, The Warhounds being under Imperial Commanders and the Space Wolves under their found Primarch. Its linked into why there seems to be a shift in roles, because one Legion was needed to fit a particular role at the time (possibly an execution) and the Space Wolves being very similar would have been a better Option. I am aware of how similar they are, its why the switched role theory holds pretty well as I see it. I will go a bit deeper again now because the discipline is a bit different. As far as I am aware, all references to the strict discipline within the Warhounds have been in reference to internal Legion violence with officers sorting out bloody fights between Legionaries, more than likely due to the highly competitive nature of the brotherhood within the Legion rather than holding them back because they literally could not be stopped in absolute massacre. Where as we look at the Space Wolves, who would literally chase after a bleeding foe to rip and tear leaving the Legion command with lost control reportedly and having to bring in Discipline corps. They could have been in the Trefoil as a dedicated Gehenna level scouring appliance rather than executioners. As for the treatment before and after Russ, this is exactly what I have been trying to talk about this whole time. Before Russ, the Warhounds fit the role better. After Russ, the Space Wolves fit the role better and were probably funnelled into the role through circumstance. They became the exact opposite. Controlled Fury is exactly what I would call it though in the case of the Warhounds. At least you could put a collar on them without having to put them down if you wanted them to stop.

I suppose my argument is that the Warhounds in the Cerberus disco displayed some solid traits that a Legion that is designed to destroy another Legion would pick up, from what we know about the Legion, they are heroic, fearless and utterly committed to removing the enemy in its entirety whilst performing their duty and following the order given. And I am definitely not saying that any other Legion could not have done what the Warhounds did. The Difference between being held back as the Warhounds and the Space Wolves, especially after the creation of the 13th expedition fleet is that one Legion has their Primarch at that point and the other does not. The Warhounds would be under orders from higher ups, where as the Space Wolves had a Primarch directing them. Its highly likely the Space Wolves were funnelled into the role due to circumstance, and from the point, roles would be reversed. The Space Wolves being held back would be under the orders of a Primarch or directly under the Emperor. As I mentioned before, the legions are very similar but you have to look at the smaller details in this case if you are arguing who is more fit for the role of executioner. Both had a reputation for massacre and blood but one was likely far more disciplined and set to the task than the other. If we are looking at the background context, only one has bigger discipline problems I was not exactly referring to just the use of disciplinary officers, most Legions in the early stages would use them. Especially the more vicious legions, however you have to take into account other factors when talking about the VI and XII and comparing, because they are very very similar. Just looking into the background of the legion from the very recruitment bases they formed from to the manners in which they made warfare, it really shows the difference in the Legions. They took to war as an unstoppable force pre Russ, its why they gained that famous name 'The Rout', all information pre Russ seems to indicate they were an unchained and a less disciplined force compared to other Legions, even the War Hounds. I can go into a bit more detail on that if you want later.

If you are going to kill a Legion, you would want the executioner to be as savage and relentless as possible with the ability to be called off if the situation demands it. The Cerberus Insurrection was a particularly troubling engagement in which Thunder Warriors were holding particularly strong ground. AFAIR in an extremely short amount of time, they were literally shredded through unending, heroic and relentless close combat which if you want a force like a legion out of the picture, that is exactly how you would do it. I will go into a bit more detail I suppose The XII who were savage and bloody fighters in their own right, but centred around strong bonding between brothers, utter fearlessness in the face of any foe, no matter how strong and dedication to the eradication of a given target, they were butchers in their own right still though. They picked IIRC the most competative and aggressive of candidates, it lines up to the Legion being a dedicated force for removing troubling and quite horrible enemies. I am pretty sure there is a passage in one of the black books stating that they were held back in case rebellion, which you are right, on its own does not mean that they are dedicated executioners. But once you start linking why the Legion was formed from what information we have, it becomes a hell of a lot clearer (to me) that they are a weapon destruction of hard targets, which Astartes would definitely be. The difference between the Space Wolves and War Hounds at this point (before Russ) is the War Hounds are much more likely to be called back if situation is demanded. During the GC early years they became an axe to carve things out rather than a wave of death. They were incredibly disciplined as well iirc and pretty harsh on it and unlike most legions, kept themselves away from others. I will be honest, I am not exactly too knowledgeable about the Space Wolves, I have absorbed the fluff pre Russ though. I do know that the roles were literally reversed when Russ came into action. Its Highly probable that due to circumstances, for example, a Primarch being united with his legion and going rogue perhaps, The Warhounds were unable to fit that role due to not having a Primarch at hand and Russ took over. The Warhounds then take on role of butcher and get assigned the 13th expeditionary fleet. Its known that they form this after Russ, because Sanguinius is quoted on the muster rolls. Basically in a TL;DR XII are the perfect legion for killing particularly hard to kill enemies, if the situation demanded it the leash could be put back on. Cerberus were a prime example of how they conduct war, rather than being a legion sent because they were executioners. Also due to recruitment factors, the XII would make a more likely choice of executioner at this time in the GC, as the VI as a choice were literal bloodthirsty berserkers who would have to literally be shot to get off an enemy.

Bear in mind this is After the uniting with Angron and the bashing of nails into heads. If the Butchers nails were not an issue, the Warhounds would be the poster legion for destroyers of Legions. Lets just take the Cerberus Insurrection as an example.

Sanguinius was going to rip and tear Amit for voicing some :cuss about Horus and he was a pretty cool headed guy when he was not tits on head mad. The Garro situation was a difficult one because Dorn was just travelling home to sort his stuff out, then suddenly he gets approached by some dude who says his own legion he is in the colours of has gone traitor and most of his brothers have stuck two fingers up to the Emperor including Horus. I don't think that was more about Dorn loving Horus but more about the world turning on its head. Don't forget, Dorn was all for Garviel as a naysmith which is a pretty good point for this. If something sounded odd or there was a change in orders, I am almost certain that he would question things a bit more than Russ. The Fists on Terra were chosen because they were the Preatorians of the Emperor, unless I remember incorrectly or things have changed, The IF fought alongside the Emperor more than any other Legion, and they were undoubtedly the most loyal legion there and the most logical choice with how they conducted warfare and defence.

I wrote out a big wall but the topic was moved and I lost everything. I believe this is how things went down as it makes a lot of sense to me Tl;Dr Russ and the space wolves I believe were probably originally meant to be a force like the world eaters, however the time and circumstance led them to become a cleaving force for particularly tough enemies similar to how the warhounds were used. Basically the world eaters and space wolves roles were reversed due to a number of events.