Jorin Helm-splitter

@Kassill - Victrix don't have them (assuming there what you meant by sword bros). At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure headtakers don't have grenades because the models don't have them. I just feel like I've been conditioned to think that marines in power armor have them, so I expected them to be there and will give people the benefit of doubt for that reason.

I tend to just give people the benefit doubt now, I'm just happier that way. I do remember being surprised that headtakers didn't have grenades, and for what it's worth if he thought they only get precision on a 6 against the quarry he nerfed the unit a bit as long as he didn't try to give it the character. So, I don't ill-think intent is there, but with how hard he leaned into headtakers its kind of crazy not to know the unit better. For me though I'm just happy that the list passes the eyeball test, because it looks fun. I really underestimated SoH and it's became my favorite detachment to run. So, seeing it have some success really increases the chances that when work gets less insane, I can show up a local tournament and have some fun.

For me 3rd was the first edition that I really played and collected (I experimented with 2nd but only played a couple of games). I don't remember it quite as fondly as some, but I think in a lot of ways we had more ownership over the hobby. I do think that if I were going to try play an older edition it would make a lot of sense to go with it. 1) There wasn't as much lore so you could fit your characters into it, and you could fill in the blanks in ways that made sense. There also was a quality over quantity feel to the lore at that point. This makes the generic characters feel more exciting than they do in other editions, and even better not feel like your being held back for only wanting to use them. 2) There really wasn't a big tournament scene so the points & table size was really determined by what worked the best for your group. Which made lists feel more unique even though there weren't anywhere near as many units. There was some absolutely busted stuff but if you ran all the time, you just didn't get to play. The missions weren't as tight and they weren't worried about seeding so draws were a lot more common, and if you did play in store tournament it was usually with home brew missions. 3) It lasted long enough that there were quite a few codex releases. I think that's a key component to making older editions work, people need to feel like they have options. Personally, I think would rather try to make a classic format rather than go back to older editions but if you have the collections and the interest 3rd is good choice.

Sorry for the double post but my LGS came through for me . They were a lot of fun to put together, I went with a trap master, gunner, rune priest, 1 hunter, and a pack leader. I wanted to make sure the squad was legal in both games to maximize my use of them. I have enough spare bits to make another 4 easily as long run the fancy bolter. I did dry fit the spare plasma pistol, and power weapon arms from the blood claw kit on them and they looked pretty solid so grey hunter bits should work as well. My plan right now is to get second box during the regular release, and to either repurpose my old reivers or buy a new box and that should get me to 20 scouts. I still have some old cyberwolves and I'll use those for the second wolf in the 10-man squads. Still a little irked that they didn't make the fang bearer legal but it's simple enough to leverage other bits. Edit: Incursors are definitely a great choice for kit bashing (I think I might've seen Karhedron suggest them earlier), the extra mine is really handy if your goal is 2 x 5. I was able to make two 5-man squads plus the extra options for kill with a box of them and some spare bits from the blood claw kit

@Hear da Lamentation - another option may be to increase the points to 1500 for the next game and use that 500 points to add in the anti-tank while still using more of the models you want to use.

They will get sold separately but they will come with play aids for kill team and GW charges a lot for those IMO. Yeah, it sold it out quick. I put in a pre-order for it with LGS cause I'm starting to get into kill team, but I'm not very optimistic I'll get one.

I really like the models, but the rules frustrate me. I don't like that the fangbearer doesn't have rules, that you can't have one wolf scout with his pistol, and find it funny that they used in that model in the picture for the unit. The other issue that really bugs me is that it's really easy to build a unit that just isn't legal in 40k, they charge a lot for the Kill Team extras so someone really should be able to build the box based on rule of cool and just have it work. I don't mind the points cost because I think it gives them some room to maybe add a little bit to data sheet, and I am going to try them because they are super cool minis, and they will work well in Saga of the Hunter.

1000-point games are hard to give advice for. There aren't many additional list building restrictions so it can lead to some pretty crazy lists, but at the end of the day most people use it to try stuff out. I really like it because there really isn't a meta or tournament lists to look at, but yeah getting advice for it can be rough. That said I think the list you have will work well, but stormlance may be better a detachment for you but you should run Saga of the Beastslayer to see if you like it.

At the moment I'm running 12 headtakers. I've also been experimenting with a unit of 6 headtakers with shields lead by a Wolf Priest. I've only ran them once, but they did pretty well in that game.

I've been running a lot of headtakers in my lists, and I've stopped trying to compare the two loadouts. At this point they're practically different data sheets in my mind. The dual wielding headtakers are more of a one-use point & click unit. If having a cheap trade unit appeals to you, they're pretty good at it, although in my limited experience they really need advance and charge. I think that there is more of a debate between headtakers with shields and bladeguard than there is between the two loadouts. For what it's worth I've been running 3 units of headtakers in my most of my lists and I'm running 2 units with shields, and one with paired weapons.

I think you're trying to fill a round hole with square peg if I'm being honest. Lethal hits will help you wound vehicles but like TiguriusX pointed out your list is light on AP, so they will have a pretty good shot of making the saves. You also wouldn't benefit much from the stratagems 4 of them are locked to space wolf units, and 1 of the 2 you could use is the reactive move that was mentioned above, but for that one you would roll a d6 instead of moving 6. To be fair the space wolf book probably needs to be the worst at running a "codex" style list, but GW definitely made it not play nice with vanilla book in a lot of ways. Another point that I feel is important to bring up is that space wolves can't run apothecaries, and I wouldn't be surprised if at the actual release we lose access to more stuff possibly even intercessors (we've never been able to take tacticals and with new GH & BC I could see us losing access to their replacement). For what it's worth I think we'll keep access to them but it's hard to recommend them until the actual release. I like the theme you're going for but primaris are a collection of specialists, and it just feels like this list is over tuned to kill battleline. I'd probably dop a unit of hellblasters, and a Lt. for 3 units of eradicators, or if having 100 guys on the dot is important 2 units of Eradicators and a unit of company heroes. It would still very much be on the fluffy side of things, but it'd have some options for vehicles.

Honestly, I just never considered them for actions. They are already useful I just have to keep that in mind. I'm really curious to see what we lose access to moving forward because I could see us losing access to more units, but I could also see some units no longer being battleline for us as an option as well. As far at 11th is concerned, I think battle line being able to do actions and shoot is a possibility, they can do it in in incursion games with the new set of mission cards, and that may be a test.

@DanPesci - I don't think 10-man marine troop squads being looked down on is a problem of this edition. I don't know if it's ever been viewed favorably from a competitive viewpoint. For what it's worth I do wonder if 10-man squads are going to be the norm in 11th. The grey hunter & blood claw kits don't really look like they're designed to be 10-man squads from a modeling perspective, and it wouldn't shock me if they move towards what you get in the box is the unit or half of it. I do want to add that in my game the blood claws & grey hunters felt fine, but not having sticky objectives hurt, and I didn't want to use them for actions because of how expensive the unit was. I did use Saga of the Hunter which did benefit both.

When I look up weights, I tend to find speculation based on info from roleplaying books which I don't believe are cannon. If I'm being honest, I don't really think that infiltrating space marines make any sense (phobos included). It's just fun to speculate on how GW will justify whatever they decide to do.

@ProtI think that is a fair concern to have. I liked the Saga style rules for warlord abilities, but it's rough when it's a conditional buff for your whole army. I don't see myself using Saga of the Hunter much because you really need to lean into space wolf units hard, and I feel like I would end up running the same list over and over again. It's just after running it, I have to admit it was stronger than I gave it credit for. I'm probably going to try and make one of our detachments work but, if I could give GW feedback it would be to use conditional rules like these for enhancements not detachment rules.