Doom Herald

I used them a little after the Space Marine changes. They were decent. Mutilators excel in a bile army and CSM troops do well because of the high mobility (especially with macrotensile sinews) and strength. Being less wounds for less points wasn't too bad for them in all honesty. Dermal Chitination and macrotensiles are probably going to be used every round, so plan accordingly. I have a thread about them on the second page of this board I think if you want to look at it. I haven't done much in 9th edition and it's been a while, so things might be different now. Bile actually packs a surprising punch, not that you want to throw him into melee, but he does good there in a pinch.

With new 40k stats (in Be'lakor's new rules insert) or old stats?

Apparently GW has broken from the policy of including rules with models for Be'lakor (atleast the 40k rules) and has only included updated stats. What does this mean for using Be'lakor at present? Do we continue using his old rules with updated stat profile or do we use the updated stats with no special rules?

I've been of the opinion that GW needs to have a free open beta on more rules changes before making them official. It would save a lot of need for FAQ/Erataing and help to make the books more complete when published. I've heard people say that doing so would essentially mean that most of the rules are free online, but they basically already are. Personally, I don't buy the books just for the rules anyway, but also for the fluff/art and the sense of completeness I get from having the book(s) for my army. So many problems that happened with CSM Codexes (and Index) could have been avoided with a public beta since most issues were immediately evident to players. I personally miss when CSM was much more customizable. The last two editions have felt stifling in that regard, though early 8th made up for it with streamlining. The Rule of Three and current Battle Brothers rules only make it worse. My poor Cypher will never see game play, my Khorne Bike Lord (that I literally bled making) will gather dust, and now I'm worried so many of my other models will. There's been far too many changes and far too few have been positive. If all Winged Dameon Princes are taking the movement nerf, there's another couple models that will be shelved. If all of our units get restrictive options, I really think I'll sit this edition out (which won't last very long the way they've been going). GW did great as a company through 8th edition not just because of Primaris, but also because they made 8th edition out as an edition made to be streamlined and to last. In the end, it was neither and it happened right after they released a whole series of books with updates for every army. As much of a downer as a new edition was, 9th seemed largely like it would be a good thing after I played a few gamea, much like 8th edition in the beginning. The changes since then, and they way they've handed it, makes me feel that this is going to be a repeat of the way 8th was handled. It's not a fun game when rule changes and updates come out quicker than you can handle and many of them are in new publications that you have to purchase and then use to piece together how to play along with atleast two other books, nor is it when you play an army specifically for the presence of options and then they are continually dwindled away. I really think that the people that bring up the artificial scarcity for bits have the right of it. I also really think that GW willfully misinterprets the way consumers react to the changes made and uses the data as a way to try to make more profits. I don't know how well it's going to work though. Doing it in 8th pushed some people away and that they seem to continue to be doing the same, probably because they think its good for stocks, is pushing more away. 40k, as a game, is almost dead now where I live and NOBODY is happy with the game locally.

I can't seem to find any in yellow. I've seen some in gold as the primary color or a yellow bronze. From what I've heard, yellow is the worst paint to paint with, although I've never used it as more than a details color. Maybe a gold would work for you? Alternatively, theres a few Chaos warbands that use white, which would contrast sharply with the other colors and the colors often used. Corpus Brethren (I believe) is a white with gold trim.

Included melee weapon? Are their melee weapons free now? Chosen can take melee weapons in addition to their other weapons too.

I think chosen would do well as a pure plasma or pure flamer team. With the ability to deepstrike any unit now, they could do some hurting. Obliterators are great, bit expensive and not totally reliable. Noise Marines don't pack the punch a full plasma Chosen squad would. Raptors can deepstrike and cary a bit of plasma, but not as much and can't take the melee options chosen could. They have use as a ranged or hybrid unit. As a dedicated melee though, maybe not. If you're willing to pay the points to make them heavy on hammers, they could potentially put some serious hurt on high wound units. Taking enough hammers would sort of make them specialized against those units though, if you're throwing your thunderhammers at infantry more than tanks and monsters, you kind of waisted the points you spent. With the new flamers and vehicle shooting rules, all the flamers that vehicles will have makes using melee units against vehicles and monsters much less viable. Thunderhammer Chosen, to my mind, are in an unfortunate niche that the new edition has made less effective than other options.

Agreed. Blast them from a distance.

Against Power Armor Astartes: > Power Fist: Hits (1/2), Wounds (5/6), Penetrates Armor (5/6) = 25/72 successful wounding @ D2 = .69 damage per attack. > Lightning Claw: Hits: (2/3), Wounds (3/4, includes reroll), Penetrates Armor (2/3) = 1/3 successful wounding @ D1 = .33 damage per attack. Assuming a CSM Champion and the +1 attack for charge/being charged, this is average of 2 wounds dealt by the fist and 1.3 dealt by the claw (including the extra attack) and 1.7 with 2 claws. Against 1 wound models, the claw does do slightly better though, 1 (fist) vs 1.3 (claw). The Powerfist seems the superior option to me for troop CSM, atleast if you don't plan on using VotLW. On units with more attacks, the lightning claw becomes less attractive as 1 or 2 extra attacks is a smaller percentage increase on a unit with more base attacks. Edit: the Powerfist weilder also can not have a further penalty to his hit rolls. He's already swinging at -1, so if a unit has -1 to being hit, the Powerfist takes no more penalty while the Lightning Claw would.

I've been doing 2 5 man squads at X4 pistols/Chainswords & X1 Champ with powerfist/Bolter because they are easier to conceal, ignore Blast, and give me an extra powerfist. Powerfist are the thing that really hit hard here. They also help to fill out troop slots this way. In larger games than I've been playing, 10 man melee could be nice with an aggressive <LEGION>. Red Corsairs and World Eaters (though they get a better melee troop) stand out, probably even Bile. I think the biggest problem with higher than min size melee CSM squads is that the Berzerkers are more attractive and spending more points on your troop means spending less points on them. I'm not sure I like melee CSM as an objective holders, they just aren't durable and they will often have to abandon an objective to charge or wait to be charged. They would be little more than bodies being shot at, which Bolter CSM can do with the added benefit of ranged weapons. They could be good objective stealers though, especially in <LEGION>s that get improved movement or charging, Red Corsairs, EC, or Bile for instance. In this case, I think large numbers and melee power would be a good thing. Make a long charge, beat down some enemy models, snag the objective with ObSec to deny them points. Even if they die next round, you denied them.

I've used them in a 1k game against new Death Watch. I definitely think Oblits and Mutilators are the way to go. Try to buff a squads toughness before breaking them off from the rest of the group. I used a 10-man ranged CSM squad and buffed them first since they were holding back objectives. T5/T6 with Derman Chitination makes them a serious pain. A recurring problem for my opponent was that my toughness was high enough that he rarely needed less than 4s to wound and often needed 5s. Mutilators are good scary bodyguards for Bile. I keep one with him and when it comes time to use Macrotensile Sinews to launch one at Deepstrikes or units that get too close, I drop a second unit to replace the first. Mutilators are in an odd spot in this army where they are either underestimated (because they know Mutilators usually suck) or they are assigned a higher threat priority than is due because people don't know much about them. They hit like a ton of bricks and have very good durability, especially if a GP or Herald is nearby. I run mine NURGLE always, the Grandfather's Blessing and Fleshy Abundance makes them even able to bring back a model and then heal it up. If I'm not using Macrotensile Sinews on Mutilators, I use them on my 4-man Chainswords + Powerfist champ squads. They are quick enough with Macrotensiles that they can get into melee quick and make use of terrain to do so safely. They also can deal enough damage that they have to be addressed. They are good harassers while everyone else moves up the board or holds things down. I did try a DP instead of my usual Disco Lord. I used the defensive relic (the name escapes me at the moment) and the Supreme Creation strat to give him the regenerate wounds/FNP. He was also Nurgle, so I used Miasma of Pestilence. -1 to hit, 2+ Sv, 5++, 6+ FNP, and two layers of wound regeneration made him very durable and he was already fast and a melee monster. Lastly, Bile himself is no slouch. That pistol is nasty and he hits hard in melee. I wouldn't throw him into melee for giggles, but if he needs to be, I find that he definitely supports his point cost. People complain about needing to take him, but honestly, he's a great unit. Stratagems are key for the army. Macrotensiles, Dermal Chitination, and The Master is Watching will be your lifeblood and are 1CP each. I think it's worth the initial CP to add the Helm of All-seeing in addition to the Defensive relic. I keep mine on my GP, he's often protected by the Mutilators anyway. Because of Dermal Chitination, if your opponent wants to kill an Infantry squad, after the first unit's shots against it, they are forced to choose to focus on the now tougher squad or to divert fire onto another less tough unit. Usually they do the latter. Make use of this with your shooty units and pair VotLW with The Master is watching for re-roll all hits with +1 to wounds. My 10-man Bolter/Autocannons squad managed to be a serious threat with this and Oblits are just overkilling with it.

A large squad with long raged weapons is decent for objective camping in your deployment. I have been using 5-man squads with Chainswords and powerfist champ in 1,000 point games with good success. I've been playing creations of Bile though, so +1S, +1" move, and Macrotensile Sinews (advance and charge w/+1 to both), all of which make it much easier to get them into melee and make wound rolls. I had a game against the new Death Watch and it was a close shave but Bile's boys pulled through, even with the wound discrepancy. Had they been 2 wounds, even with the point increase, I think they would have performed better though. The powerfist being a flat D2 is nice. The AP-1 Chainswords is also nice. I haven't configured the new ranged weapons into the squad, so my ranged squad still used Autocannons. I imagine heavy bolters would be better.

Other than Kranon, I pretty much always use Jump Lords, and so Haarken makes a great base for that. I have some old CSM kits and use those for combi-bits. For a CSM Lord, it really is you have to kit bash. Any character model is a good base and if you can get ahold of the old CSM (troop) kit, that has a lot of good options for shoulders and decoration. For weapons, I recommend the Raptor kit, especially for Chainswords. Maybe try an Exalted Champion as the base or, as previously mentioned, a Havoc Champion.

I'm slightly optimistic that the lack of HELLBRUTE keyword is an indicator that CSM Legion Traits will be applied to vehicles in the manner everyone's else is. Of course, GW being GW, I found it just as likely that they will just make our traits apply to DREADNAUGHTs (as a keyword).

"...I lost my Bolter..." "Take mine, I won't be needing it."