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Mobius0288

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  1. A Battalion is a good start. Storm shields are a winner in any unit you make. Vets are now 2 wounds a piece so its not so much a competition between taking Vets vs Primaris. Now you can build around what you prefer and still be viable. You can now build kill teams with specialisms which gives a proteus kill team a better chance at wounding stuff. An easy start is 2 HQs, 2 Ven dreads (Lascannons), a blackstar and Vet units to your heart's content. Just balance out your anti-tank vs your anti-infantry to what you need.
  2. From a secondary objective perspective, sometimes you have to kill a unit to score points. By combat squading them, you should have to kill both 5-man units to get credit for killing a unit. From a list building perspective, its a way to conserve your troop choice slots. In 8th, a double-battalion was always the goal to maximize CPs per game. That gives you 6 troop choice but 12 objective secure units on the table. And in our army, more objective secure bodies are always welcome. Depending on how your kill teams are kitted out, the specific tactics could be argued. It seems like a good starter type of strategy for a generalist list.
  3. +1 for the vanguard veteran kit! I've gotten two, and the leftover bits can be used in kill teams or a converted jump Captain easily. Lightning claws for blackshields or Sgts, same with power axes. 4 storm shields to use for the squad or to spread around in other kill team conversions. As Debauchery101 mentioned, goes great with other boxes when you're trying to kit bash specific chapters as well. I used the space wolf and blood angels box for specific storm shields, armor accessories and chainswords with my VV's.
  4. I think the strat says specifically use a chapter tactic from the space marine codex, so I don't think you can pick successor combos or something out of white dwarf. A bonus thought for the stratagem... if you had a 5-man outrider unit already combat squaded and gave them the whitescars tactic. You'd be able to charge turn 1 if you're in range. You can also pair that with psychic powers, litanies and specialisms to your liking. Protection powers, offensive powers... take your pick. Oh and now the skilled rider stratagem to give them a -1 to hit in the space marine book, which is now possible after the FAQ about key word changes.
  5. If you end up fighting the new deathguard, the heavy plasma cannon could be a choice to ensure you take out a model. Previously, when the storm bolter had SIA, it outperformed the assault cannon. At the cost of no more than -1 to hit, it's still 6 shots at -1 AP. A heavy bolter is probably better due to being cheaper (on a vet). Storm bolters are fine if that's all you have. It's not ideal from a points perspective as compared to a Vet, but shots are shots. One or two terminators aren't bad (teleport homer, fire support, extra wound, etc.), but if you plan to bring more, just have a plan. Definitely keep in mind that the Fury of the First stayed a stratagem. It can be used on an "adeptus astartes" unit, which means a terminator unit or a kill team. Not ideal for a single terminator in the team but if you plan to have 5 in a kill team (or combat squaded), or a unit of 10... that will greatly alleviate the trouble of taking heavy weapons on terminators. Power fists and Thunder hammers as well.
  6. Only Thousand Son Scarab Occult Terminators have this rule. I smell heresy afoot.... :)
  7. Your initial analysis is correct so far. Before we took them in proteus kill teams to either combat squad them a specific way, and/or use their built abilities to "fall back and shoot" or "fall back and charge." Currently those are stratagems in the supplement, so for better or worse, less units will be able to take advantage of that tactic and it will cost you a CP. The big reasons to include mixed kill teams (Proteus) are: -Stratagems for fall back and shoot/charge -Combat squad for a unique troop choice -Specialism -Heavy Thunder Hammer spam with VVs -Situational movement shenanigans for charging *Blackshield could be viewed the same way as bikers and VVs, but realize there is an intervention stratagem for blackshields in a given unit...hence the importance of getting blackshields added to kill teams via the last FAQ. I personally enjoy having VVs in my larger proteus kill teams because i tend to add in some melee flavor. A Sgt (single power weapon), blackshield (double melee) and VV (double melee or one melee with shield) is plenty attacks to devastate a unit on the charge... plus all the normal close combat attacks from the rest of the unit. As a bonus, the VV can move 12" if I need that extra boost before making a charge.
  8. I would offer, rather than further dissecting the words to figure out RAI, that the 5++ wouldn't protect you against most common infantry weapons on the table top. If you run down to the store and end up fighting space marines, you'll be up against some intercessors with rapid fire during tactical doctrine with AP -2 shots. That still puts your guys at a 5+ save, or you can use your 5++ save.... whichever feels more awesome. Now there's some AP -3 infantry capable weapons out there and that's when it would matter (looking at you stalker bolt rifles during devastation doctrine) but they aren't a common threat to build your list around. Most of which are anti-vehicle weapons. The Vindicare Assassin being the exception?? I would regularly play Thousand Sons before the lockdowns and their combi-bolters were always at AP -2. The only thing that saved me was having some storm shields. I brought the Dominus Aegis a couple times and it still tore through my intercessors hiding behind it (in 8th, it was more ideal to get a tank in the aura). Specifically when using terminators in my kill team to take saves, it was because they inherently had a 2+ save and 2 wounds that they would prolong the life of my veterans. The 2 wounds on vets makes a difference but without the 2+ save, the common infantry weapons are going to tear through you the same unless you bring a/some storm shields. Side note: Comparing our Veterans vs Primaris via the wounds is fine, and a plus for our veterans. But with new transports and units available, primaris lists can be built to be on par with pure Vet lists. So from my experience, I would just offer that even though a save is a save, it didn't make that big of a difference in most of the games. Enough damage was done by that point that the unit was fairly crippled in terms of fighting back next turn. Perhaps Vengeance rounds could change that this time around... Bring some storm shields or bring a transport - tried and true.
  9. Primarily that the Xenos Hunters Chapter Tactic is a Detachment Ability, according to the Space Marine Codex. Though the issue I'm having is that some folks assume because it says "choose one role," they can only choose one role across your army... which could consist of multiple detachments. It's odd because the only other "choose your own ending" is in the successor chapter trait section: Preferred Enemy. You can of course build two detachments, give them both preferred enemy (with another successor tactic of choice), and the two detachments could have different preferred enemy choices. Similar thinking applied to the Xenos Hunter Chapter Tactic through two detachments. There's no precedent as there's no other codex/supplements currently out with the same...conflict? And for those that like page numbers and quotes: -Page 93 in C:SM defines detachment abilities (containing Adeptus Astartes units) -An Adeptus Astartes Detachment gains a Chapter Tactic -"Xenos Hunters: After both sides have finished deploying their armies, select one Battlefield Role. Until the end of the battle, each time a model with this tactic makes an attack against an enemy unit with that Battlefield Role, re-roll a wound roll of 1." Each detachment that meets the adeptus astartes requirement gains a chapter tactic. Therefore, chapter tactics are a per detachment rule. Deathwatch units are able to select one battlefield role (after deploying both armies), per detachment. Willing to get into this topic as its own thread but don't want to stray too far from original intent about relics. ------------------------ break break------------------------- I would say that the Auspicator would hinge on whether or not a 2nd detachment could be taken with a different battlefield role selected, at least for me. I still find the beacon angelis more valuable and if I'm really not sure what army to expect, I would probably look to Artificier Bolt Cache or a Dominus Aegis next. Or even save the CP tbh, as there are some other strategies and toys to build upon depending on army composition (blackstars, indomitus kill team buffing, Master characters, etc.)
  10. I think my go to is still beacon angelis as it allows me to be aggressive at the beginning of the game, as well as take a few less points in transports. I have to rethink about the Auspicator. I had originally planned to use that next to a Venator Kill Team (Stalker bolters and Missile Launchers, maybe combat squaded with bikers). The 2nd part of my plan was to use Vigilance Incarnate to flip rerolls depending on what gets in range but Vigilance Incarnate doesn't change the "mission tactic" of a designated unit, it only gives reroll 1's to wound based on the battlefield role. The Venator Kill Team specialism requires the mission tactic to be against fast attack to get the full reroll. So probably what needs to happen is a 2nd patrol detachment will need to be taken with the fast attack mission tactic selected to make this relic shine. For a more positive spin, despite having to spend CP for the extra detachment, this frees up needing to have a warlord trait character nearby.. just a character to carry said relic. I can see this benefiting or being built around either a unit of 10 stalker bolt rifle intercessors or with Indomitor Kill Teams containing Eradicators - both of which would be more than capable of taking a target with a lot of wounds with the right stratagem combo. The intercessors would be more stationary, while the indomitor KT would do best roaming/mid-field.
  11. Vigilance Incarnate does not change the mission tactic according to it's description. Adaptive Tactics (strat) is the only one I see that affects the chapter tactic. Your second point would probably be better pointed at GW for a FAQ. If it were an army wide ability, like flexible combat doctrine, where it describes your entire army specifically including adeptus astartes or deathwatch units in your army... I would agree. I agree it is one battlefield role, but I read it as only one battlefield role per detachment as it is a detachment ability.
  12. 1. Correct, assuming you are are referring to Mission Tactics defined in the Space Marine Codex. 2. Your furor would get the full rerolls, Aquila would only get to reroll failed wounds of 1. You can look at it as a way to give an additional "mission tactic" to a unit. It's designed to give you a flexible choice before going into a game, where the other specialism are determined when creating your army. If you make a storm bolter/storm shield Aquila team: One game you can fight tyranids and give them Troops from mission tactics, and elites. The next game you play against space marines, you can choose troops for mission tactics and fast attack for aquila specialism (maybe they have biker or outrider spam). The Furor specialism is pre-determined when building your army list, Aquila is determined at the beginning of the battle round when determining mission tactics for your detachment. 3. Yes, it stacks. It hasn't been discussed in length on the forums yet, but yes. Xenos hunters per the codex is a detachment ability. If you were to bring two different detachments (ex: 2 patrols), each detachment could have 2 different mission tactics. You could also place your specialism units in the appropriate detachment to ensure full rerolls to wound against your mission tactic battlefield role. And because your army is all Deathwatch, you maintain the "flexible combat doctrine" in the deathwatch supplement. Yes the stratagem invalidates Xenos Hunter for the turn/phase (i forget which). Your Specialized Kill Team would not get to "reroll the wound roll" if you gave your furor kill team the imperial fist chapter tactic (6's score additional hits), for example.
  13. So lets back up a second. Our Chapter Tactic is Xenos Hunters - choose a battlefield role as your mission tactic, and reroll wound rolls of 1 against them. You also reroll hit rolls of 1 in melee against the xenos factions. Both of these apply to all units in a given detachment. In the deathwatch supplement, you get access to specialisms - essentially, a single kill team gains the ability to reroll 1's against the chosen specialism's targets (furor for troops as you pointed out). *Only one specialism of each type can be in an army *Only applies to a single kill team *Kill team can be combat squaded, giving both "units" from the same kill team the specialism... example is 5 intercessors and 5 outriders can have the furor specialism if combat squaded during deployment If your mission tactics and specialism happen to align, your Furor Kill Team will specifically be able to reroll the wound roll against troop choices. Say your army has (not going for meta here): -Primaris Captain -Redemptor Dread -Fortis Kill Team w/ Furor specialism (5 Intercessors, 5 outriders) -Fortis Kill Team w/ Dominatus specialism (5 intercessors, 5 hellblasters) -Fortis Kill Team w/ Aquila specialism (10 intercessors) At the beginning, you choose troop choices as your mission tactics. Detachment wide, all of the above will be able to reroll 1's to wound against troop choices. The Furor Fortis Kill Team will specifically be able to reroll "the wound roll" against troop choices, meaning any dice roll on the wound roll (pass or fail). They also reroll 1's to hit against xenos in melee. The Dominatus Kill Team can still reroll 1's to wound against troop choices due to mission tactics, but they can also reroll 1's to wound against elite choices due to the Dominatus specialism. The Aquila specialism is more of a "pick your own" and would allow you to pick any battlefield role in addition to your mission tactics choice, but you do not get to "reroll the wound roll" if your mission tactic and specialism are the same. The Primaris Captain (reroll 1's to hit for core units due its datasheet ability) and Dreadnaught would be able to reroll 1's to wound against troop choices, and reroll 1's to hit if in melee against xenos factions. I would say the LT isn't pointless, but you can build your army so that he isn't needed if you want other HQ options. It's pretty easy to add characters because we didn't have access to a lot of them before this edition, and the master specialties for librarians, chaplains, etc. are really good. Adding more abilities to characters for a small point increase usually benefits elite-ish armies quite a bit. The primary condition to reroll wound rolls of 1's is the battlefield roll of the unit, which symbols depict on the data sheet (either top left or top right depending on which side of the page the data sheet is on). The next condition to reroll the wound roll would be whether you have a specialism on that kill team, targeting a specific battlefield roll. Hope that helps.
  14. I like it, though I would not be trying to charge with my indomitor kill team without having an inceptor in there as a fail safe to get my guys out of combat (stratagem). Used to run a first born version of this last edition, but now we have the impulsor to get a few extra primaris guys forward enough to maximize damage. Can you run Vigilance Incarnate nearby for the Malleus team to get full re-roll wounds? Or maybe you choose heavy support as the mission tactic?
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