NKCougar

Yeah, I don't think they've had any real victories yet. Prospero was a loss for the Imperium, they limped out of the Alaxxes nebula, then got rekt on Yarant, and I'm sure worse is to come. That's alright, though, because this is the Horus Heresy and there's no real victory to be had from it. Exactly. Do not forget the 'Wolf Cull' disaster that will lead to Yarant. On the IX and Signus - you can't call it one of Sangy greatest victories. He lost 40-50000 of Space Marines, he was wounded, he was distracted from the 'real war', his flaw surfaces, his sons were flawed for eternity, 'Red Angel' was born etc. etc. Check again, definitely wasn't one of the IX's victories at all, but Horus' victory and a huge one at that - even though there was no reason not to trust him at the time, if Sanguinius hadn't been stuck at Signus there was a good chance he could have stopped the Heresy before it really got rolling on Terra.

I want to see Malcador exercise his mind at the Siege as well. He's the strongest human psyker in the galaxy, which, against the primarchs may not count for a whole lot (or maybe it will, I've seen him referred to as possibly on Lorgar's level of strength) - but his age and experience would probably let him work it in far more subtle ways. Malcador clouding a primarchs mind in a subtle enough way to have him make a mistake and kill his men would be incredible, perhaps even blasting one away from whatever wall he is at and preventing a breach in a less subtle exercise. I'd like to see the most powerful human psyker in action before the end. Don't you say that. Don't you even think that. I have this irrational (or is it?) fear in the back of my mind that they're going to do something to leave it open for Sanguinius to return in 40k. Actually, now that I think about it, they wouldn't even need to make any changes. Speculation and slight spoilers for short stories and Master of Mankind below. Edit: writing this made me feel dirty. I need a shower.

In order: I'm hoping for a stupid wild twist to that. I missed it cause you know my opinion on the book and I physically suffered while reading it. As for the Aforgomon being a Cegorach - splendid catch. Could be, could be. I didn't know much about Cegorach; but what would be the proof in the text for the daemon to be Cegorach? None at all, I made it up. Sounds like a better change than Ahriman being right about the rubric anyway though.

^This. All credit due to the BL authors for making the traitor primarchs interesting and sympathetic. Too much so. Reminds me of Game of Thrones *************** Now, as for the Space Wolves not getting their true victory.... I will concede to the original poster's point that we lack relatively open-and-shut cases of the SW just straight-up kicking and chewing bubblegum. I can understand where that sentiment comes from and to a certain degree the SW do suffer a bit of the Worf Effect (although I also feel that Lucius and Khârn are the Worfs of the HH series to a certain degree). However, a few things to consider: -nearly every single book, short story, and/or audio drama has references to the SW and how badass they are. The "happy as a clam" phrase of the HH series seems to be "deadly as a Space Wolf." That's a compliment. -Prospero was a helluva battle. I can see the angle of "but the SW 'needed' support," but here's something to consider: the TK Sons are arguably one of the most powerful Legions in existence. Every single one of them is essentially a Librarian. Imagine if every single model in your 8th Ed army could cast Smite. Wowzers. So the fact that the Space Wolves were considered deadly enough to still take them on with a high probability of winning speaks highly of itself. "Of all the forces at our disposal, who do we trust to still get the job done even taking 50, 60, 70, 80% casualties on the beachhead?" Like the US Army Rangers at Pointe du Hoc. -again, this doesn't really feel good from your perspective, but the fact that it took Prospero, Alexxes, AND Yarrant to even stand a chance of taking the SW out of the fight is a sort of compliment. Compare that to the Ultramarines where Calth essentially made them turtle up for the rest of the war (more or less). Or the Salamanders and Raven Guard where (more or less) one epic battle essentially removed their piece from the chessboard (yes, they did a lot more after Istvaan but the large-scale strategic initiative was definitely lost). -For another non-SW angle, Hidden Content I get annoyed that the Blood Angels/Sanguinius have done pretty much jack this whole HH series. But, if I want to look at it from a different angle, the fact that it took Horus personally commanding the entire IX Legion to go to a sector of space that was cut off from the rest of the galaxy and an entire system worth of daemons thrown at them--which they had never even encountered at this point, and we have been shown repeatedly just how deadly daemons are -- to stall them just long enough for the rest of the Heresy to get off the launchpad, is sort of a compliment to the IX Legion . So I feel your pain and understand where you are coming from, but at the same time I think--in true Rout fashion-- you can easily laugh at the circumstance and annoy your enemies by considering everything a compliment and victory for your dudes. On the IX:

Yeah, I don't think they've had any real victories yet. Prospero was a loss for the Imperium, they limped out of the Alaxxes nebula, then got rekt on Yarant, and I'm sure worse is to come. That's alright, though, because this is the Horus Heresy and there's no real victory to be had from it.

Please be true. If we're jumping the shark by bringing primarchs back, why not go all the way?

I agree, a physical duel is unnecessary between those two - let them duke it out via proxy, to decide if Dorn truly deserved the honor of being the Emperor's Praetorian, or if Perturabo had always been the better. An actual fight between them would be far less interesting IMO. As far as who is the fastest (can't figure out how to quote two different posts on mobile)

That, also, is correct. She's (It's?) creepy.

She wasn't Dark Mechanicus - she was clade assassin I think. Correct, Vanus infocyte, and the best portrayal to date - that Assassin was straight up deadly.

Would be bad for the setting if they didn't for at least some of them, they can't all be Fulgrim. I wouldn't even say they have a moral argument for what they do, just that their motives are shown and they're made sympathetic characters - most of the traitors are ones that got poo'd on by the Emperor in some perceived way (Angron's fellow slaves, Monarchia, warp corruption, Razing of Prospero - although that one is on Horus, total insanity, etc) and those are usually shown as turning points for those primarchs.

Spoiler tagging, but yes.

I'm not sure I would attribute it to a humbling based on Abnett and his portrayal, IIRC most if not all of the beatings so far were already in the lore. I think the Greek comparison is pretty spot-on though, there are plenty of those overarching themes in the setting.

True. Though Sevatar's problem is kinda-sorta-directly laid out in 'The Long Night'. It's just not explicit, yet. I'm curious to see where that leads. Pure speculation below, along with spoilers for the above short.

You sound like me. I haven't read that particular series, but I usually read or re-read at least one HH novel a day. For some reason, even with the Battle for the Abyss quality ones, I can't get enough of the lore. I've even read BftA multiple times, just because.

In order: I'm hoping for a stupid wild twist to that.