Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 lol !! like the loyalists are so much better?? :mellow: they all got daddy issues.. the chaos ones for they weren't hugged enough.. guilliman & dorn because they were hugged too much.. russ was just an alcoholic ...etc. anaways, I doubt GW will bring more primarch rules.. we'll see.. actually, i think the loyalist primarchs were as well rounded as genetically made killing machines could be. Russ is a drunkard if one dont read or know anything about him, those that do see a fiercely loyal friend willing to follow you to hell if need be. Dorn might have been a kiss arse, but he was justifably proud of his legions skills. Guilliman might have been a bit tyrannical (see his enforcement of the Codex Astartes), but he never went overboard with his power Khan, see Russ in a saddle Vulkan made his Legion the most human of the SM Legions, with their regualr interactions with the humans of their home world Mannus greatest failing is his compassion for his brother Fulgrim Corax was a more human version of the Night Haunter, all the skills but none of the crazy Sangy was a well rounded angelic figure...even horus acknowledges he would have made a better warmaster. the Lion was a warrior, and had all the failings of a warrior. however, like mannus, his greatest failure was love of his brother, here it is luther. but oh well, this is only my .o2 cents. wolf lord kieran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Pfft... all the Loyalist Primarchs either turned tail or bit the dust, most by Chaos Primarchs, BTW. Our Primarchs may be "emo", but at least they're still around :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 the only loyalist primarchs that are dead are ferrus mannus (killed by fulgrim, or more correctly, the daemon inside cause fulgrim didnt have the nuts to) and sagy (killed by horus). dorn is presumed dead, but since all they found was a hand, me not convinced. till i see proof of the rest of the non-emo primarchs are dead, they are alive and kicking it somewhere. wolf lord kieran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 well guillimans probably dead since he got stabed in the throat by the anathema. btw the anathema nearly killed Horus with a hit on the shoulder more so guilliman in the throat. the only reason why they found dorns hands and not his body is because his body went byebye :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I thought they found Dorn's body? Anyway, the Primarchs are even on both sides. Loyalists: Guilliman-practically dead Vulkan-gone Corax-gone Russ-gone(with no armor or weapons) Khan-busy owning Dark Eldar Lion-being useless Dorn-gone(dead?) Sanguinius-died a heroic death Ferrus-being a failure after getting owned by Fulgrim Traitors: Horus-owned by the Emperor Angron-sulking after getting banished at Armaggedon Lorgar-doing nothing Mortarion-being diseased and doing nothing Fulgrim-doing something you don't want to know about Batman-dead Alpharius-alive and manipulating Imperials Perturabo-doing nothing(sulking because his side lost the Heresy?) Magnus-practicing sorcery? So loyalists have five Primarchs left and Chaos has seven who have been letting Ezzy do everything for the past ten thousand years. Also, the loyalists Primarchs that are left could probably beat the traitors in a fair fight since they don't have to worry about Rob hurting himself anymore. Corax and Vulkan could take all of them on their own except Alpharius and Angron, but they have Russ as backup so the Imperium would win once again. Can you tell I'm biased? And so my post is slightly on topic, I think Angron's rules are pretty good. Of course he's not going to be as strong as he is in the fluff, he'd murder everything in an extremely graphic manner if he was, so GW balanced him out. What's his BS for? From what I saw he doesn't have a gun. But his armor save should be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 we can go on with the loyalist vs chaos primarchs for ever.... OT : Angron is the only primarch who has done something major in 'recent' history.. (armageddon) The others last actions were shortly after the Heresy..so I don't know if they will appear. the rules for angron are somewhat weak but he can't be gamewise like he's fluffwise.. marines are also not gamewise how they are fluffwise. I don't know if he's got a gun but bloodthirsters also have a shooting attack (whip thing) maybe it's something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 At first I was a bit disappointed by the stats, but looking back on it, Angron alone would be able to topple a Warhound by his lonesome. agreed, the rules are pretty solid, hes one mean beastie and at his points cost theres plenty of points left over or more goodies (and bloodthirsters bwahaha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 well guillimans probably dead since he got stabed in the throat by the anathema. btw the anathema nearly killed Horus with a hit on the shoulder more so guilliman in the throat.the only reason why they found dorns hands and not his body is because his body went byebye -_- The anathame and Laeran sword are two different weapons, Fulgrim weilds the Laeran sword, Lucius was gifted with the Ananthame if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddsbodkins Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Angron seems to be more useful vs big things than lots of small things, what with his 'every attack is instant death' rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 well guillimans probably dead since he got stabed in the throat by the anathema. btw the anathema nearly killed Horus with a hit on the shoulder more so guilliman in the throat.the only reason why they found dorns hands and not his body is because his body went byebye :lol: The anathame and Laeran sword are two different weapons, Fulgrim weilds the Laeran sword, Lucius was gifted with the Ananthame if I remember correctly. actually you almost got it right. fulgrim has the anathema lucius has the laeran sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 well guillimans probably dead since he got stabed in the throat by the anathema. btw the anathema nearly killed Horus with a hit on the shoulder more so guilliman in the throat.the only reason why they found dorns hands and not his body is because his body went byebye :) The anathame and Laeran sword are two different weapons, Fulgrim weilds the Laeran sword, Lucius was gifted with the Ananthame if I remember correctly. actually you almost got it right. fulgrim has the anathema lucius has the laeran sword. I tought tat the daemon blade fulgrim had was the one they found in the tempel of those Laer thingies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 no, the laeran blade WAS a daemon weapon. after the daemon possessed fulgrim, it became a "normal" weapon. so he gave it away to lucius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 no, the laeran blade WAS a daemon weapon. after the daemon possessed fulgrim, it became a "normal" weapon. so he gave it away to lucius. sounds logic.. it's been a while I've read Fulgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Talon Master Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I think Angron is well balanced for a daemon unit (I know I'm going to die for this), but remember his power ebbs and flows with the raging warpstorms that accompany him. Oh and fyi, if you haven't read Codex: Chaos Daemons, daemon princes have the eternal warrior rule (thus no ID for Angy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamblakkmetal Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Hm. His stats are actually unimpressive considering. He should make people loose control of their bladders just by the very mention of his name. This guy is supposed to be the destroyer of armies. And hes rather...bland. I hope if they do more Primarchs theyre nastier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Talon Master Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Well, let's just remember even though the Primarchs were the most powerful superhumans that the Emperor could produce, they're not living gods, not even the Emperor himself was a living god, he was mortal, and thus he actually needed saving... So, let's just examine this for a moment Normal Human (Untrained) WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 5 - (Unarmored) This represents me and you. Normal Human (Trained) WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 3 3 3 3 3 1 1 7 5+ (Flak Jacket) This represents a trained soldier, much like you would see in the Imperial Guard. Space Marine (Scout) WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 3 3 4 4 4 1 1 8 4+ (Scout Armor) This represents an untrained human who has just gone through the surgeries and psycho-conditioning to become a space marine. Space Marine (Battle-Brother) WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 4 4 4 4 4 1 1 8 3+ (Power Armor) This represents a trained battle-brother of the Adeptus Astartes. Space Marine Veteran WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 4 4 4 4 4 1 1 9 3+ (Power Armor) This represents a hardened warrior of the Adeptus Astartes who has served for many years. Space Marine Captain WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 5 5 4 4 5 2 2 9 3+ (Power Armor) This represents one of the finest warriors of the Adeptus Astartes who has been chosen to lead. Space Marine Master WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 5 5 4 4 5 3 3 10 3+ (Power Armor) This represents the most powerful warrior in a chapter of space marines, he is their leader and one of the strongest warriors they have. Primarch (Base) WS BS S T I A W Ld Sv 6 6 6 6 6 4 4 10 2+ (Artificer Armor) This represents one of the Emperor's greatest creations, the Primarch of a Space Marine Legion. Now if you look at it my way, the primarchs at base would be gods compared to you and me, but they are things greater than the primarchs themselves and they are not invincible. Now look at Angron and weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 now see here talon master, if you continue using logic you will put the rest of us to shame :D i like the reasoning behind your post. wolf lord kieran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Well, let's just remember even though the Primarchs were the most powerful superhumans that the Emperor could produce, they're not living gods, not even the Emperor himself was a living god, he was mortal, and thus he actually needed saving... Your calculations are similar to mine but mine are different As I've written in the HGR section and over on Warseer: His statline is perfectly inline with my personal Primarch calculations (ignoring Movie Marine BS of course - anyone expecting Primarches being all 10s is living in fantasy land). As I see it a Primarch is to a Space Marine, what a Space Marine is to a regular human. Though to give it heroic focus it's more along the lines of "a Primarch is to a Chapter Master (Marneus, Azrael etc), what a Space Marine is to a human". So in general plus one to each stat SM Chapter Master (Marneus, Azrael) WS5 - BS5 - S4 - T4 - W4 - I5 - A4 - Ld10 Primarch (standard unaugmented statline - suitable for say Roboute or the Lion) WS6 - BS6 - S5 - T5 - W5 - I6 - A5 - Ld10 Then say if you want a more exotic statline for say Sanguinius you just take Dante's statline (seeing as it contains the same point count as Marneus and Azrael, just the stats are arranged differently) and add one to each. Dante WS6 - BS5 - S4 - T4 -W3 - I5 - A4 - Ld10 Sanguinius WS7 - BS6 - S5 - T5 - W4 - I6 - A5 - Ld10 You then follow it through that the logic would also apply for the Daemon Primarches who would instead of being compared to a Chapter Master would be compared to a regular CSM Daemon Prince CSM Daemon Prince WS7 - BS5 - S6 - T5 - W4 - I5 - A4 - Ld10 Daemon Primarch WS8 - BS6 - S7 - T6 - W5 - I6 - A5 - Ld10 Then you augment according to particular character IE Angron combat monster (+2WS +1A). See perfectly fair. The only real let down of Angron's sheet is his Special Rules, there just isn't enough and they aren't special enough for a Primarch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Talon Master Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I like your logic Heru, but I still prefer my own dissimination (because my un-augmented statline provides for fluffier, killier Primarchs). Remember the Primarchs aren't a Space Marine, so they wouldn't just be the next step up, the Primarchs make a Space Marine look like normal man in comparison (see reference). ~ The Talon Master Edit: I believe by meshing your view and mine that we can pretty much create the perfect statline. Here's my proposal Primarch WS BS S T W I A Ld 6 6 5 5 5 6 5 10 Okay, so I realized this was your proposal for Roboute or Lion'el, but I honestly believe now that I look at it that it would be the ideal Primarch statline. Of course all this power would come at a cost, I would say the base cost for a primarch would atleast have to be 250 pts., without rules and equipment of course (which would probably bulk them up to about 500). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 If Angron and his retinue of Bloodthirsters can't take on a company of Grey Knights, I don't want to play. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 also think, these rules are just for fun, there is no real way to use a primarch, because they would probably kill everyone a turn, of course they are toned down, space marines are supposed to be walking tanks, but there not. besides, it apocalypse, just make his stats higher, and raise the points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord mull Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 i've seen the rules for angron and i think theyve made him far to weak for a primarch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BombedComa Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I missed that issue of white dwarf does anyone know of a place I can find them? I did a search on the GW website but it didnt return anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm going to adapt the rules in the WD issue to work with my Perturabo project (I'm planning on making him in his Daemon Prince form, as well as his Pre-Heresy form I might add) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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