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before the Emperor Fell?


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15 replies to this topic

#1
MuGGzy

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So I am reading through the Horus Heresy book series from Black Library, a great series if you haven't checked it out yet you should.
It occured to me that in current 40K the Emp is in the Golden Throne and IS the Astronomicon that all ships navigate by.
Well in the books, when the Emperor is still alive and kicking they has an Astronomicon already. So what was providing that service pre heresy if not the emperor? The books don't address this so far (4 books in) and just simply state that the astyronomicon is there and they navigate by it.

#2
Razrhaghul

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i think they had the astronomicon prior to the heresy, but it may not have been as strong or far-reaching as with the Emperor. He's kind of like the Energizer Bunny for the thing, requiring less focus for all the sacrificed psykers required to power it.
though i also wonder if there isn't some 'spiritual' advantage to warp space being calmer around Terra due to the beacon blinding daemons or some such...but that's merely my own speculation, without canon material to back it up.

#3
Sons of Horus

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probably because the emperor isn't the astronomican. and the daemons are not blinded by the light. in fact, if the warp gate in the emperor's throne room opens up then Terra will be doomed because endless hordes of daemons will come pouring through the gate.

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#4
Kadaeux

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Before the Heresy the warp was a lot calmer, the Chaos Gods darkened the Warp for the Heresy and never calmed it afterwards.
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#5
Eloies

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I imagine those days were a lot like to go in the same highschool as Jesus. "Hey Jesus you gave me syphilis last night!" And then Jesus will just look at the girl, lay his hand on her shoulder shake his head and *POFF* say: "No you don't". And since the Emperor was Jesus, calming the warp will be like a walk in the park compared to make sure that all the girls in high school ain't pissed cuse he had to lay hand upon them all the time.

Edited by Eloies, 10 October 2008 - 03:29 PM.


#6
angronn

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Before the Heresy the warp was a lot calmer, the Chaos Gods darkened the Warp for the Heresy and never calmed it afterwards.


Was that the becalming effect of Slaanesh's birth, calming the warp storms prior to the Great Crusade?

Also, I dont quite follow Eloies' post...

Edited by angronn, 08 October 2008 - 11:26 PM.


#7
CernunnosX

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I think the Emperor trained psykers to use the Astronomicon before he fell. He and they were able to direct the beam and keep it focused. Once he was interred in the Golden Throne he and the souls of psyers soulbound to him just fuel the beam and keep it burning.

Could be wrong, but that is my understanding of the whole thing.

I aso am not sure I follow Eloies' post.
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#8
Kadaeux

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Before the Heresy the warp was a lot calmer, the Chaos Gods darkened the Warp for the Heresy and never calmed it afterwards.


Was that the becalming effect of Slaanesh's birth, calming the warp storms prior to the Great Crusade?

Also, I dont quite follow Eloies' post...


The calming prior to the made it so the Emperor could even enact the great crusade, then the Gods went and uncalmed it for the Heresy.
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#9
Grey Mage

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Slaanesh had been around a long time before the heresy, however a balanced had been achieved, a heirarchy if you will, between the four major chaos gods. This is a rare occurance, and allowed the emperor to use warp travel extensively and reclaim much of the universe. IIRC the primarchs all have the navigators abilities too, wich no doubt helped. Now once the heresy happened the chaos gods once again fell to infighting, and havent reached balance again since. Chaos doesnt often balance.
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#10
Razrhaghul

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hmm. the great crusade was merely the calm before the storm. they may have reached a balance, but they started getting ancy when secularism was being imposed upon the fuel source for their existence.

#11
Bigger-than-Jesus

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The Emperor only used a small part of his power on the Astronomicon, when he was hooked into the throne he just bosted the amount of power into it(speculation/memory)

And as far as I can tell, Eloies likened Jesus to a high-schoolpimp with STDs who went around curing everyone. He then likened that to the Emperor and the Astronomican. I think.
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#12
Leonaides

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Surely slannesh had been around for about 200 years - becuase his/her/its "birth" caused the warp-storms of its "birth-pains" to cease. This calming of the warp was what the Emperor had been waiting for, and he promptly set out on teh crusade...

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#13
moranimal

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Loken states in False Gods that the forces of Chaos must have planned this event thousands of years beforehand. That would be before the Primarchs even existed. Thus it would seem that they calmed the warp to enable the Great Crusade and allow the Emperor to find his "children", thus setting in motion the eventual Horus Heresy.

The conjecture would be, are things still going according to the Chaos plan (i.e. the failure of the heresy), or was the Emperor able to thwart Chaos, if only for the time being?
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#14
Ubermensch Commander

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Loken states in False Gods that the forces of Chaos must have planned this event thousands of years beforehand. That would be before the Primarchs even existed. Thus it would seem that they calmed the warp to enable the Great Crusade and allow the Emperor to find his "children", thus setting in motion the eventual Horus Heresy.

The conjecture would be, are things still going according to the Chaos plan (i.e. the failure of the heresy), or was the Emperor able to thwart Chaos, if only for the time being?


*snort* hahaha I do not buy that "It is all part of Chaos Plan!" line. Chaos tried, Chaos failed. The Emperor's Light still burns through their realm like a torch and the Imperium remains. It's kinda like on the Fantasy forums "Tzeentch MEANT for Archeon to FAIL miserably in the Storm of Chaos campaign...yea....yeah@! All part of the plan!"...............right.

The Emperor is the Astronomicon, it is the psychic projection of his will. He can project a minibeacon of it, with some effort, to create a localized astronimicon and enable safe warp travel around him but it is taxing to do so(getting most of this from memory of the Heresy Artbooks). He made the Golden Throne, which was meant to only be one of many,to amplify and focus the Astronomicon. These psychic engines/beacons were to act as bonfires in a fog, litter them across the cosmos, pushing back the warp and warp entities and making warp travel safe. He also wanted to tap into the Webway/create a human one(never was quite clear on that).

The Warp Storms which broke up the old Human Instellar Empire(s?) was the result of Slaanesh gestating in the warp. With the birth of Slaanesh these warpstorms calmed and dissipated, enabling the Emperor to set out and reconquer the Galaxy in the name of Mankind. The Big E had been preparing for such an event, with the reconquest of Terra, the Alliance with Mars, and , of course, the creation of the Primarchs and Space Marine Legions.

Hope that addressed the OP.

Edited by Ubermensch Commander, 17 October 2008 - 06:01 AM.

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#15
retlaw83

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I have always maintained, with all the lies and misdirection inherent in fluff written from an Imperial point of view (a lot of people don't seem to grasp the concept of "false narrators") that the Astronomican running has very little to due with the emperor (who I think is dead as a door nail) and a lot more to do with the thousands of psykers they feed to it every day.
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#16
angronn

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Loken states in False Gods that the forces of Chaos must have planned this event thousands of years beforehand. That would be before the Primarchs even existed. Thus it would seem that they calmed the warp to enable the Great Crusade and allow the Emperor to find his "children", thus setting in motion the eventual Horus Heresy.

The conjecture would be, are things still going according to the Chaos plan (i.e. the failure of the heresy), or was the Emperor able to thwart Chaos, if only for the time being?


As previously said, Slaanesh is very young at the time of the Heresy, having just been born prior to the Great Crusade.

Additionally, although born of and dwelling in the Warp, I don't think the Chaos Gods have full control over it - I certainly don't think they are able to calm it at will.


I have always maintained, with all the lies and misdirection inherent in fluff written from an Imperial point of view (a lot of people don't seem to grasp the concept of "false narrators") that the Astronomican running has very little to due with the emperor (who I think is dead as a door nail) and a lot more to do with the thousands of psykers they feed to it every day.


The psykers are fed into the Golden Throne. The Astronomican is maintained by a choir of specially trained Astropaths, focusing (or focused by?) the Emperor.