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Deep Striking Land Raiders...


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39 replies to this topic

#1
Wadey13

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Ok, so as a long time SM fan and Blood Angel fan, I'm thinking of starting my own BA force now that they have a beautiful codex and exquisite models! I love them and I love the background, now I'm inspired and the time seems right!

But.....

I won't be using deep striking Land Raiders. Why you say? Why, when you can use it for glorious tactical gain? Well, it just doesn't seem right to me. There seems to have been a lot of buzz about the new codex having some overpowered elements (I've yet to see I haven't got it yet), and following the trend of each codex geting more and more crazy than the last, and to me, deep striking Land Raiders just seems to be a part of that.

But from a background point of view, which is the main aspect of the game for me, I just feel that if a Thunderhawk transporter was flying over the battlefield it'd atleast pop off a few shots at the enemy. Tbh, I'll be fine to use it in Apocalypse, but it just seems silly to me to use it in a 1500-2000 pts game when really, that Thunderhawk could probably blow most of that army up by itself! Haha!

Anyway, 'm fine with others to use it obviously, the tactical benefits are plain to see, but, I wont be be and that why hahaha!

#2
ThatRedOne

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I may be alone in this, but I really like the fluff in the new Codex about the deep striking Land Raiders. How else are they going to keep up with the rest of the army?

I can't see me deep striking one in game, though (well, maybe once just to see what happens!).

#3
Freakiq

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But from a background point of view, which is the main aspect of the game for me, I just feel that if a Thunderhawk transporter was flying over the battlefield it'd atleast pop off a few shots at the enemy. Tbh, I'll be fine to use it in Apocalypse, but it just seems silly to me to use it in a 1500-2000 pts game when really, that Thunderhawk could probably blow most of that army up by itself!


Thunderhawk Transporters only carry two twin-linked Heavy Bolters.

Seeing as they're doing a low altitude drop I'd say their main concentration is on evading enemy fire, not killing an ork or two.


I also think GW might be paying homage to this awesome picture that's been circling the web for a few years:

Posted Image

Edited by Freakiq, 10 April 2010 - 07:01 PM.


#4
wizard12

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I don't like the idea of deep strikeing land raider either. I mean, your thowing your best, most holy piece of equipment which you as a chapter only have 43 of, off a fast (and I mean really fast) moving flying vehicle. Not even todays armed forces are stupid enough to throw tanks out of planes (though i'm sure we've tried). Also, if it's as simple as that, then how come you just decided to put it in this codex. At least give other SM players something other than "Oh yes, they just fly their thunder hawk transporters (not exactly common pieces of equipment either) over some ground and drop their land raider."

Guilliman must be turing in his stasis field thinking "How on earth did I not think of that!"


Edit: then again, it is quite cool when you picture it in your head.

Edited by wizard12, 10 April 2010 - 07:16 PM.

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#5
sonofwaranddeath

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I don't like the idea of deep strikeing land raider either. I mean, your thowing your best, most holy piece of equipment which you as a chapter only have 43 of, off a fast (and I mean really fast) moving flying vehicle. Not even todays armed forces are stupid enough to throw tanks out of planes (though i'm sure we've tried). Also, if it's as simple as that, then how come you just decided to put it in this codex. At least give other SM players something other than "Oh yes, they just fly their thunder hawk transporters (not exactly common pieces of equipment either) over some ground and drop their land raider."

Guilliman must be turing in his stasis field thinking "How on earth did I not think of that!"


Edit: then again, it is quite cool when you picture it in your head.



But other chapters Land Raiders CAN keep up with their rhinos and predators....

As to modern airborne vehicles.....I introduce to you the M551 Sheridan. http://en.wikipedia....i/M551_Sheridan :)

#6
Freakiq

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Guilliman must be turing in his stasis field thinking "How on earth did I not think of that!"


Guilliman didn't have the need of keeping up with Lucifer equipped Rhino's and hordes of Jump-Pack troops.


Edit: blast you sonofwaranddeath and your quick typing. :) :D

Edited by Freakiq, 10 April 2010 - 07:29 PM.


#7
Plague Angel

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Exactly. For everyone saying "Why would you take one of your chapter's holy relics and just dump it out of the Thunderhawk?", that's the thinking of Codex: Space Marine chapters. Be careful with those Land Raiders, they're ancient and holy. No need to scratch them before they even get to battle.

All Blood Angels vehicles are super-charged with the Lucifer engines, a non-Codex upgrade that's making all the red ones go fasta'. But they couldn't figure out how to super-charge the Land Raider engines, so they drop them off closer to the enemy lines right in the middle of battle so as not to sacrifice speed driving the Land Raider all the way there.

So the fluff at least tries to explain it, though I might agree it's just a bit of hand-waving.

#8
Isryion

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I think deepstriking Land Raiders are more bark than bite as far as the overpowered discussions go. I don't think it is good tactically because it's a huge tank and you have a good chance of mishap. Not to mention, it might be able to fire a couple of guns upon landing, but troops can't assault from it. So, by deepstriking, the earliest assault you get is Turn 3, and that's if it comes on. It could be off the board longer than that.

#9
Plague Angel

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I think deepstriking Land Raiders are more bark than bite as far as the overpowered discussions go. I don't think it is good tactically because it's a huge tank and you have a good chance of mishap. Not to mention, it might be able to fire a couple of guns upon landing, but troops can't assault from it. So, by deepstriking, the earliest assault you get is Turn 3, and that's if it comes on. It could be off the board longer than that.

Agreed; deep-striking brings its own problems. I don't expect I'll ever deep-strike a Land Raider unless it seems like a very very smart move based on the opponent's deployment, or if I'm going the Invisible Army deployment. What it mostly means to me is that I can still take Land Raiders in an otherwise all-deepstriking army.

#10
Red Fury

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it might be able to fire a couple of guns upon landing, but troops can't assault from it. So, by deepstriking, the earliest assault you get is Turn 3, and that's if it comes on. It could be off the board longer than that.

plus the chance of mishap or the extra cost of a beacon makes it even less attractive.

With a standard deployment Land Raider you can get 2nd turn charges already (12+12+6+1.99) So what is the point in deep striking a Land Raider in-game at all? I get the fluff, makes sense. It just doesn't work out in-game.

-Fury

#11
Jakobus

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I guess I look at it as the Thunderhawks where already use to deploy Landraiders just not in front of the battle lines so that doesn't seem strange to me. And I figure that I will be popping smoke half the time.

I figure my use of it will be dependant on the mission

#12
Commander Sasha

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With no mention of parachutes, grav plates or dirty great springs, the impact of a 40 ton tank being dropped out of a plane will end up with a broken tank in anyone's universe, not to mention the passengers being turned to jam in their suits.

Even if it, and they, survived, it would be so deep in the ground that it would take a while to dig it out; is that why you can't assault that turn? "Ok lads, get out and start digging"

Should have just made it a Lucifer, or given it a one shot burst of nitro, 24" turbo/4+cover once only.
My Marine army is of mixed gender, mixed manufacturer, but a uniformly low standard of painting.
I am a light-hearted player who likes to run with silly or funny ideas, but abhors causing offence; please bear this in mind when discussing.
Peace, love and harmony. And Grimdark.

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I may be wrong.

#13
shatter

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In the reserves game, a model not getting the full quantity of game turns is often irrelevant as the opponent is similarly affected.

Situations & factors of note:
i) It will survive enemy first turn shooting (initiative seizure can be a downer) which is generally the strongest shooting phase for heavy gun-lines.
ii) Player destroys effective enemy AV weapons pre DS and yet doesn't lose out in utility by table edge entry.
iii) Deployed where cover can protect it anywhere (that could not be reached by conventional deployment and movement plus see i, ii).
iv) Can be deployed to block LOS and/or movement of units, friendly or enemy.
v) Can provide a big priest bubble where it's needed with less constraint that predictive movement.
vi) Can die on one set of dice rolls.
vii) Awesome corbolo protection, see v, vi.
viii) Can't wreck early and block movement of friendly forces. Especially significant if deployment zone is terrain heavy.

Can't think of more just now. But probably will.

So, quit with the negative waves...
...Gladus, and my mitts.

#14
sonofwaranddeath

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Posted Image


That's how they do it :P



So, quit with the negative waves...



Posted Image

Favourite movie!!! :lol: ;)

#15
Isryion

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With no mention of parachutes, grav plates or dirty great springs, the impact of a 40 ton tank being dropped out of a plane will end up with a broken tank in anyone's universe, not to mention the passengers being turned to jam in their suits.

Even if it, and they, survived, it would be so deep in the ground that it would take a while to dig it out; is that why you can't assault that turn? "Ok lads, get out and start digging"

Should have just made it a Lucifer, or given it a one shot burst of nitro, 24" turbo/4+cover once only.



Well, you need to remember that 40k is really more futuristic fantasy than science fiction. IE it's more Star Wars than Star Trek.

Edited by Isryion, 11 April 2010 - 01:28 AM.


#16
shatter

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*fires up correctional facility PC*

I dropped some kids off at the movies. They died on impact.

Perhaps BA deep-striking Landraiders speaks only of rapid precision delivery rather than shoving them out of a 'ship hold with a dreadnought shoulder-barge from orbit.

Deep: in enemy territory. Strike: asset incursion.
...Gladus, and my mitts.

#17
knife&fork

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You could use it to get within minimum distance of those scary IG tanks with ord barrage guns, right?
24 years of Blood Angels

#18
Kinzel

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*fires up correctional facility PC*

I dropped some kids off at the movies. They died on impact.

Perhaps BA deep-striking Landraiders speaks only of rapid precision delivery rather than shoving them out of a 'ship hold with a dreadnought shoulder-barge from orbit.

Deep: in enemy territory. Strike: asset incursion.

ahhh quote of the day :D

I picture it exactly like some others have said like with the SW Gunship dropping off the AT-TEs. Where does it say that the LR itself is dropped at high speed / high altitude?

If I was a THawk pilot I would treat it exactly like modern C130s do in combat zones. Drop like a rock in a spiral to throw off enemy gunners, touch down but keep rolling while vehicles ride down the ramp, then up and out as fast as damn possible.
A TH just has the benefit of clamps for a far easier release as it places the Raider where needed. (At most I would imagine a couple feet off the ground.)


And yes modern forces do deep strike tanks too. The Sheridan as metioned or the British have tested parachuting a Scimitar out of a C130 to support Airborne troops.
More literal how about a helicopter picking up artillery and moving it? That happens all the time now.
Don't feed the DeathStar..

#19
Commander Sasha

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I still hold that a player's turn in 40K equates to about 10 seconds: walk 11m, run 10 more or shoot a few times, swing a sword once or twice; A Droppod could hit the ground and burst in that time, but a helicopter land, release and depart? Not realistic.

That's why I said "ANY" universe!

Did I really just cry that my plastic soldier future war wasn't "realistic"? I might just sit in this corner I've painted myself into...
My Marine army is of mixed gender, mixed manufacturer, but a uniformly low standard of painting.
I am a light-hearted player who likes to run with silly or funny ideas, but abhors causing offence; please bear this in mind when discussing.
Peace, love and harmony. And Grimdark.

Also playing the Skavenids: Skaven models, Tyranids codex.

I may be wrong.

#20
Brother Captain Kezef

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I don't like the idea of deep strikeing land raider either. I mean, your thowing your best, most holy piece of equipment which you as a chapter only have 43 of, off a fast (and I mean really fast) moving flying vehicle. Not even todays armed forces are stupid enough to throw tanks out of planes (though i'm sure we've tried). Also, if it's as simple as that, then how come you just decided to put it in this codex. At least give other SM players something other than "Oh yes, they just fly their thunder hawk transporters (not exactly common pieces of equipment either) over some ground and drop their land raider."



You do know that we've been dropping Tanks out of planes since WW2 right?

All warfare is based on deception


#21
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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to be fair, pretty much everyone with 'airborne' tanks has gotten rid of them. the british had some glider tanks, the russians had or possibly still have some old, not so great tanks that they dropped, and the US had the 551, but it's been out of the inventory for nearly 20 years i think. but they did do a 'combat landing' with M1A2's in bosnia when that was still an actual shooting conflict. the crew strapped in just before landing and the gunners were feeding in shells as they rolled down the ramp.

as for the LR, well, it's not really new, they sort of hinted at it in apoch, and i think people should just be glad they didn't make them fast too. it's not nearly the most annoying thing in the codex. all fast tanks? DS a LR is hardly as game changing as a fast vindicator.

#22
shatter

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fast vindicators... I keep hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth on them.

I wish they had potms and could DS. (lol)

Fast? Meh, an easy trick.
...Gladus, and my mitts.

#23
wizard12

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fast vindicators... I keep hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth on them.

I wish they had potms and could DS. (lol)

Fast? Meh, an easy trick.


demolisher cannon is an ordanance weapon. You can't move and shoot
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#24
shatter

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Dont pick my joke apart!
...Gladus, and my mitts.

#25
Sabadin

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fast vindicators... I keep hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth on them.

I wish they had potms and could DS. (lol)

Fast? Meh, an easy trick.


demolisher cannon is an ordanance weapon. You can't move and shoot


Might wanna double check your BRB for 5th ed ;)
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