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Attack Bikes vs. Landspeeders


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14 replies to this topic

#1
Jakobus

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Just what the title says, I have two Baals and I'm looking at what will be for the third slot.
What are the pros and cons of these units or do I look at another Baal?

#2
evileyevirtue

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Well, LS and AB's are almost the same...kinda. The LS is a vehicle so it gives you that AV, so it prevents lasguns from taking it down. It also has the ML and multiple weapon load outs. So, if you want to take a Typhoon with a MM, you can do that.

The AB's are bike models and they're best asset is that they can easily get a cover save from being behind infantry, unlike a vehicle. And of course they're added toughness.

So, it really depends on what you want these guys to do really. Also, IMO, it's really best to take these guys at least in a set because they are a bit fragile and preferably as separate FA slots. If you want to just load a MM, either option is great and it just depends on what you prefer and/or whether the rest of your army fits with it (i.e. heavy tank or heavy infantry).

So, to allow for better advice, what do you want to do with them and what else is going to be in this list?
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#3
njm3

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Both can move real real fast like and get a invulnerable save that way. Bikes however get a better cover save (3+, p76) vs. (4+, p71) and aren't destroyed by immobilized results

Speeders can ignore terrain while moving and move over intervening models of both flavors... bikes get to participate in HTH combat.

Speeders are invulnerable to s3 hits and can deepstrike.

Really depends on what yer trying to do.

Edited by njm3, 17 July 2010 - 06:44 AM.


#4
Chairman_woo

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I agree with what others have said tho I feel I should also point out that if you are going the MM route, attack bikes can double up as a reasonable anti infantry unit at a push, 2 or 3 attack bikes with Multi Meltas and twin linked bolters, and relentless can knobble many squads with shooting and a sneaky assault (esp things like marine combat squads where numbers dont bite too hard). Speeders can only do this if you spend extra points on a second weapon system, nor can they launch an assault.

Speeders on the other hand can deep strike and move over intervening terrain so under some circumstances they will be better suited to reach and take down a target, and you can slap a heavy flamer alongside the MM to make them multi role like the bikes (arguably better vs larger units but less adaptable I think).

Personaly I run speeders (MM and HF) with armies that are armour heavy (split fire priority etc.) and bikes when i'm mostly using (jump) infantry.
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#5
Drachnon

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Mostly depends on what else you field. An extra Baal pred is ofcourse always an option.
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#6
JamesI

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Generally, I prefer attack bikes if you are going for meltaguning. Especially with our codex where an attack bike unit can become fearless (though the Red Thirst) can get Feel No Pain and FC (from a priest).

Now, a Land Speeder with Typhoon missiles is a good thing.

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#7
Chairman_woo

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Now, a Land Speeder with Typhoon missiles is a good thing.



Ive been thinking about typhoons myself recently, but I worry they are a bit too expensive for how easily they can go down. I assume its all about having so many scary vehicles in their face that the enemy would be foolish to even consider the typhoons? Still 90-100pts a pop makes me think twice about taking 2 tho they would fill a lack of long ranged mobile anti armour fire in my mech list niceley.
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#8
JamesI

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Now, a Land Speeder with Typhoon missiles is a good thing.



Ive been thinking about typhoons myself recently, but I worry they are a bit too expensive for how easily they can go down. I assume its all about having so many scary vehicles in their face that the enemy would be foolish to even consider the typhoons? Still 90-100pts a pop makes me think twice about taking 2 tho they would fill a lack of long ranged mobile anti armour fire in my mech list niceley.



Basically, always arm a typhoon with a heavy bolter, not a multimelta. That way, it can move 6 and fire the heavy bolter and krak missiles, or move 12 and fire just 2 krak missiles or move 12 and fire the heavy bolter and 2 frag missiles. A heavy bolter/typhoon speeder can threaten regular infantry and vehicles, while a multimelta/typhoon is basically a vehicle hunter.

Typhoons can stay back out of the range of most small arms, while a multimelta speeder to be useful has to get within bolter range. If my opponent wants to fire a missile launcher or lascannon at a landspeeder and not a Vindicator/predator/dreadnought/Land Raider that is a good thing.

My experience is that typhoons survive far longer than predators because opponents underestimate them and focus fire on the bigger threats.

Edited by JamesI, 17 July 2010 - 12:56 PM.

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#9
x01848m

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I couldn't agree with James more (and it doesn't hurt that my name is James, too). But seriously, I love taking a squadron of two Land Speeders with Typhoon Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters. It provides tremendously versatile and long ranged firepower. Just keep them at the 36" range from your opponent, or at least on the flanks. My opponents have ignored them, and paid dearly for it, both in vehicles and infantry.
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#10
Massawyrm

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If you're going Multi-melta, then Bikes are the way to go. Speeders are an extra 10 points just for the single MM. At three speeders, that's 30 extra points floating around.

Typhoons on the other hand are INCREDIBLE. I run a unit of 3 and it is the best 270 points you will spend. Cuts through infantry like butter and will make easy work of huge threats like a Bloodthirster or a Swarmlord at a distance. I was mocked by some top tier players for this choice early on - until they played against it. This squad often becomes a priority once it hits the table. Anything spitting out 6 AP3 STR8 shots a turn needs to die. Draws a lot of heat off of other units.

#11
Venerable Jazzman

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Does anyone ever play the full 9 Speeders?

I've put a few lists togethr, but have never had the models, and it's just a bit too much to proxy with Post-It notes

Aesthetics will naturally weed out the bad choices.

 

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#12
Jakobus

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I'm usually looking for the most flexible unit.

Currently fielding a combo of the below
The Landspeeders are sounding like the better option so they can swap between tank hunting and anti infantry / hoards

Seth
Librarian
2 Chaplains either elite or HQ
1 Furioso w/ Blood Talons
2 Sanguinary Priests
10 man Tactical P-Fist, PlasG, PlasC
5 man Jump squad
10 man Jump squad
5 man RB assault squad
9 DC
2x Baals - 1 new one old (new can change weapons)
2x Vindi's
1 AoBR dread

Edited by Jakobus, 18 July 2010 - 01:19 AM.


#13
Redo

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My take is that is you are taking speeders, you need to take 2 weapons systems. As others have said the 2 most popular and effective loadouts are the MM/HF or the Typhoon/HB. James I explains this nicely. I usually take MM/HF speeders in a pair as I like the dual roles. I always move them at 12" and try to give them that all important cover save.

When running Attack Bikes it is becuase they are cheaper. I also run them in a pair, behind something for cover and if possible near a priest for FNP. As someone else said they are not too bad as infantry killers with relentless twin-linked bolters and MM. Still prefer the HF from the Speeders though and love their objective grabbing potenital.

#14
Firedrake28

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James pretty much nailed it. If you're just looking for quick, cheap melta than Attack Bikes are likely your best bet. If you're looking for a unit that's both fast and is good at taking out a wide range of targets than go for a Typhoon.

#15
Zid

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I prefer Landspeeders for my meltaing needs... solely for the fact that it cannot get stuck in on a close combat. Str 4 needs a 6 to glance (after needing a 6 to hit), sure it gets blown up easy by ML's and such, but an attack bike can get ID the same way. I also don't need to worry about losing the speeder from terrain, and bikers have a habit of breaking a leg going through terrain. And lastly, speeders make great road blocks