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Furioso Librarian


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#26
Angelus Mortifer

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Wings makes the Libby/Dread move "as if he had a Jump Pack"; doesn't change his unit type to Jump Infantry, so sadly no that wouldn't apply.


and "A model equipped with a jump pack is jump infantry"


But since he's not equipped with a jump pack, only moves AS IF he had a jump pack...


-_- But...thats my whole point. He moves as if he has a jump pack. Models with a jump pack move like jump infantry (because they are jump infantry) if it moves like Jump infantry its not moving like a vehicle is it? From a fluff perspective how hard is it to believe that something that can grow big psychic wings might be able to lift up off the ground even when the leg servos are broke?


I'm not arguing with you mate ;) Fluff-wise I agree with you; I'm just regurgitating some of the "long" conversations I've had on the topic elsewhere because I guess the game mechanics sadly don't support it, i.e. "equipped with" is not the same as "moves as". Pedantic I know...

It's the same as Mephiston being affected by JotWW having used Wings in the previous turn. Mephiston is classed as Infantry and the use of Wings doesn't change his unit type to Jump Infantry so he can get hit by it... though will only succumb once in a million years :)

Edited by Angelus Mortifer, 30 November 2010 - 02:04 AM.

The grey let off a hooting cry in its own language and the legion of nephilim advanced, each of them phosphorescing an angry yellow.

"We will destroy you," it said. "We outnumber you."

Horus gave a rueful nod and drew his sword, a massive blade of oiled steel and adamantium. "You will try," he said. "But today you face the Emperor's sons and his warriors. We are the Luna Wolves, and this Legion is the anvil upon which you will be broken."

From high overhead there was a low crackle and a sound like distant thunder as sonic booms from the upper atmosphere reached the desert floor.
"We are the anvil," Horus repeated, pointing with his sword.... "Now behold the hammer."

Elite.gif ++ Final battle of Melchior, seconds before the massed drop pod and aerial assault of the IX Legion, Blood Angels ++ Elite.gif


#27
shatter

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But since he's not equipped with a jump pack, only moves AS IF he had a jump pack...


-_- But...thats my whole point. He moves as if he has a jump pack. Models with a jump pack move like jump infantry (because they are jump infantry) if it moves like Jump infantry its not moving like a vehicle is it? From a fluff perspective how hard is it to believe that something that can grow big psychic wings might be able to lift up off the ground even when the leg servos are broke?


Yahh, but the rules are pretty simple for vehicles. 'Immobilised' is all inclusive and therefore can't move no matter it's means of propulsion.

Moves as if it has a jump pack means it would go 12" and over terrain in the movement phase, 6" assault. If it can't move because of immobilisation result, it... can't.

We've actually thrashed this out to death a few times here already, and while a minority don't like it and continue to argue against it's counter-intuitiveness (by appreciating the flavour of it's description), the majority thinks that argument doesn't fly any more than the immobilised dreadnought does.

*shrug*
...Gladus, and my mitts.

#28
Mezkh

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Immobilized vehicles (which walkers are a subset of) can't move.

It doesn't matter if they would not being immobilized move as infantry, or as a fast skimmer, or as a flyer, or as a go-kart, or as a llama.

Vehicle + immobilized = no movement.

Wings of Sanguinius doesn't make him not a vehicle, it just changes the way he moves.

Compare: Standard walkers move as infantry. This doesn't mean they ARE infantry and get to ignore immobilized results either, right? :cuss

#29
Gaz1858

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Compare: Standard walkers move as infantry. This doesn't mean they ARE infantry and get to ignore immobilized results either, right?


I was literally just about to write this!!

It doesnt stop being a walker, just gains the movement of Jump infantry.
QUOTE
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#30
Kanis

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Well, now that that's been settled...I was able to test the Librarian today. He did quite admirably! He took a few close calls today from some Guard heavy weapons, but thanks to some quick jumps, he got into combat with a 42 man blob of Guardsmen, and happily stayed there...the entire game, safely. It was needless to say not very fun for my opponent to have such a large unit stuck in a battle they couldn't win, but such is war.

I used Wings and surprisingly, last minute I chose Unleash Rage. It ended up helping me a ton, because I was missing 3+ to hit a LOT. By turn 5, he had ended up killing all but 12 guardsmen, and their annoying commissar.

While not an amazing first time, it wasn't bad at all. I think I'll try Might instead next time though, for some extra killy against my next foe. All in all, I still think a standard Furioso is better at the role, but a Librarian is very fun, and scary for my opponent. Thanks for all the feedback and thoughts on this brothers, be well.
"From shame and shadow recast. In black and gold reborn."

#31
Ultramarcos

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I've added also one in my list, more following a friend's suggestion, than really willing to.
I playtested it only once and it did ok as well. Specially because it resisted to 4 melta shots in one single turn from a Vet squad.
I also agree that this is not an ultimate solution and probably...once in CC, the Furioso has a better value for it's weight. But it gives you some versatility in your list, specially because people don't expect to have the Dread Flying around. Plus, the Hood helps to create a Ati-Psy buble...I try to run the big guy, in the oposite side of the table where the Libby is.
Bottom line...not that good alone, but very good asset if combined with other stuffs, offering an alternative versatility to the army!
thoser were my 2 cnts

#32
BOBMAKENZIE

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Compare: Standard walkers move as infantry. This doesn't mean they ARE infantry and get to ignore immobilized results either, right?


I was literally just about to write this!!

It doesnt stop being a walker, just gains the movement of Jump infantry.


Its an interesting facet to it. I dont recall Dreads ever being stated as moving as infantry just that they move 6" and are affected by DT. But then I might be remembering wrong! (I know Dreads are on the vehicle firing table as Moving Combat speed) Further Research on my part required. The flying Dread was just a flight of fancy that I rather liked the visual of. Mind you it wouldnt be able to assault as I figured it but you could still make it float around for shooting things. Or meeting a Tech Marine Part Way or what have you.
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#33
Son Of Moriar

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Right, am I being Dense or does the fact that if your Libby Dread gets immobilised and has the ability to cast Wings power mean he can still move 12" Just can't assault??? Have spoken to many people and opinion is divided(mind U the nay sayers are the ones who suffered horribly at it's hands!!!)

#34
Kanis

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My pals and I think it's pretty clear, once the Dreadnought is immobilized, it cannot move at all, Wings or not. I think people need to look up the definition of the word. XD It's wishful thinking, I feel. Same with it not being able to get Extra-armor, it's a shame, but thems the brakes.
"From shame and shadow recast. In black and gold reborn."