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Vanguard Vet successes?


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16 replies to this topic

#1
Chaplain Gunzhard

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Gents, after a thorough search here I found a lot of cool VV loadouts.

I've (tentatively) decided on the following configuration, half because I think it's cool and half because of what I have available:

EDIT - Revised: Sarg with PW, 1PW, 1TH&SS, 2 CCW.

Well first, what do you think about that config?

Secondly, I'd like to hear what sort of success/failure you guys have had running VV? I've never used them.

Thanks!

I've always used a mix of JP and mech, but I would like to try a all-JP DoA list (for the first time), and this VV squad will be part of it.

Edited by Chaplain Gunzhard, 30 December 2010 - 06:21 PM.

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#2
Justin2008

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Sounds pretty neat. Iv gone for the 3 power weapons, 1 power fist and serg has glaive encarmine.

But i think if you stick your guys in a rhino with a preist, (assuming ya dont have jump packs) and move fast as possible.

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#3
BOBMAKENZIE

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I used to run 10 with 2 Pweps 2 pfists. Thats not really the same at all but I generally found it more then enough. I think you might be alittle weapon heavy on that squad.

I found them to be generally quite good.

One single game I had the whole squad mishap not that it mattered because they were just trying to buy me alittle time against 3 nurgle daemon princes and 2 Lords of Change. Oh well.
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#4
Chaplain Gunzhard

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You don't think all the power stuff is really needed? It would actually be easier for me to have 2 CCW's instead of PW as it would require no conversion, but I was just thinking that they should hit hard, as they will hit alone on the turn they DS? Though, I've never used them before...

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#5
BOBMAKENZIE

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You don't think all the power stuff is really needed? It would actually be easier for me to have 2 CCW's instead of PW as it would require no conversion, but I was just thinking that they should hit hard, as they will hit alone on the turn they DS? Though, I've never used them before...


Why are they hitting alone on the turn you deepstrike? Do you have a way to garuntee them Furious charge? Power weapons are great up until this point where they hit critical mass and any more doesnt really help as much as you would think it does. For example in your unit there. If the first 16 Power weapon attacks dont cripple the enemy squad why do you need a thunder hammer to help out?


I did run a 10 man vanguard with 9 power weapons in the Space marine book. In my first game they killed 2 orks on the charge and my heart broke alittle. Beyond that they were alright but not great.
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#6
JamesI

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I don't think its necessary to have all power weapons. I run usually around 1 upgrades Veteran for each unupgraded vet. Right now this leaves my normal VV squad with 1 Thunder hammer, 1 power weapon, 1 pair of lightning claws and 3 guys with normal weapons. 50% of the time they have FC (thanks Astorath!).

I'd love to add in a few storm shields and perhaps a powerfist, but then I'd need to increase the squad size and I like keeping them small and barely costing more than a 10 man RAS.

Edited by JamesI, 30 December 2010 - 04:17 PM.

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#7
Black Blow Fly

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I am typically sniping Long Fangs so I want every wound to count. That is why I run the four power weapons.

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#8
JamesI

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I am typically sniping Long Fangs so I want every wound to count. That is why I run the four power weapons.

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I can see that. So far, most of my enemies are of the 5+ or 6+ armor kind, so power weapons aren't as needed.

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#9
Chaplain Gunzhard

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Well my typical opponents are quite varied... most often (now) it's SM (vulkan or Cantor), SW, DE and IG. But I also play against Nids and Eldar often, and occasionally chaos and sisters.

I typically run a mix of JP and mech, but I was thinking to use this VV in a DoA all-JP list (something I've never tried before). Black Orange, I came across your VV config earlier in my search... :HQ:

Ok well here is what I am thinking then (easier on conversions and easier on points):

VV x 5 - sarg with PW, 1 PW, 1 TH&SS, 2 CCW. What you guys think?

Edited by Chaplain Gunzhard, 30 December 2010 - 04:59 PM.

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#10
Redo

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I usually run 5 or 6 vets and try to keep the points under 250 odd points. I think that too many weapons are a waste of points and often leave you open after an assault. With my 5/6 men I find that 1TH, 1LC and 1PW is enough, sometimes a 2nd LC would be nice

I also like to have a 1 or 2 vets there to asborb wounds and help (take a little advantage of) with allocating wounds.

#11
BigBaals

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10 man squad, combat squads.

Glaive, Single LC, PF, two regular guys in one squad.
PW, Single LC, PF, two regular in the other squad.

Astorath for FC, if not, I haven't had a game yet with my DoA army when a bit of careful planning couldn't get a Priest within 6" of my VV squad when they drop and assault. Remember, we measure our Priest bubble after the assault move! That FAQ actually made placement of my Priests easier for me. Just drop the priest near the thing you want to attack with your VV. It's just that easy.

I don't want to wipe out the squad I attack. I want that combat to resolve in my opponents turn for a d6" consolidation, then another assault on my turn. It's worked incredibly well for me.

#12
Br0ther Rafen

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well, the optimal config for me was developed with the help of Thade, and i haven't gone back since.
8x with 2x SS guys, relic blade sarg and a PW marine.
this squad can be very good and survivable, while not costing ridiuclous amounts of points.
the "system" used is 1 SS for every upgrade, which creates a unit of PW delivery that can still cause a lot damage even with barebones marines.
For BA, 2x PW's or mabye a Glaive Encarmine but i don't like glaives to much.
my 2 cents.
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#13
Mezkh

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10 man squad,

1 Glaive,
1 Lightning claw,
2 power weapons,
4 x BP+CCW+Meltabomb,
2 x BP+CCW,

380 points all up.

I take Astorath so they often have furious charge, or a nearby priest.

They tend to be used to bully things that have no business being caught in a close-combat. Hence no heavy duty expensive gear like Storm shields, power fists, thunderhammers inflating their cost.
The meltabombs are a really cheap addition for what they bring to the squad(s) (screw careless stationary vehicles, wound allocation shenanigans).

The main debate with these guys seems to be whether to give them storm shields or not. Personally I haven't missed them with my games. You're often operating with a max of 5 Marines per unit so it's easy to stack power weapon wounds on the same model on the wound allocation merry-go-round.

If this was a stormshield model it's still a decent chance of failing, thus you're risking a paired special weapon - if instead your special weapon models are taking regular 3+ saves then that save can be backed up with FNP.
If it's just a stormshield model with no paired special weapon, but a chainsword- seems a waste of 20 points for a no better than 66% chance of keeping that redshirt model alive - will his 2 base attacks make much difference to future combat results?

Edited by Mezkh, 30 December 2010 - 11:51 PM.


#14
Bradley Powers

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In my mind, Vanguard Veterans serve two roles in a DoA style army:

1) On the turn in which they arrive, tie up or destroy the unit(s) that be very damaging to the remainder of your troops in your opponent's turn.

2) After, stay alive and tie your opponent's units up in CC for as long as possible.


For my 1750/1850 lists, I run 10 vets, with the following configuration:

10 Vets, 2x PF/SS, 2 LC/SS, 2 LC/SS/Meltabombs

This unit (combat squadded or no) is quite good at taking care of pretty much anything when it Deep Strikes (This excludes the ridiculous unit of DE, which included Lelith, Vect, and A bunch of kitted out Incubi. Charging that was stupid!)

#15
Lord Cuthbert

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I have run VV mainly with my Salamanders and have had overwhelming success with them. I kit them with LC and SS and give the Sgt a TH and SS. They are pricy (equivalent of a LR) but they have mauled almost every unit they have engaged 90% of the time. I keep the packs off and load them in a LRC to help ensure that they assault when and where they want to. The BA give the nice adition of adding a Chappy/Priest. I may be inclined to change up that list with bolt pistols and glaive encarmines and give the Sgt the TH SS combo if I add a character.

#16
ancient god

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I have run VV mainly with my Salamanders and have had overwhelming success with them. I kit them with LC and SS and give the Sgt a TH and SS. They are pricy (equivalent of a LR) but they have mauled almost every unit they have engaged 90% of the time. I keep the packs off and load them in a LRC to help ensure that they assault when and where they want to. The BA give the nice adition of adding a Chappy/Priest. I may be inclined to change up that list with bolt pistols and glaive encarmines and give the Sgt the TH SS combo if I add a character.


The only issue with that is that you give away our outstanding special rules for reserve, deep striking and of course the Heroic Intervention. The squad you built can also be done with our Honour Guard, only thay it already includes a Sanguinary Priest.

That is why BA usually field VV with jump packs, whatever else the loadout may include.

#17
VAGABOND

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I've just added VV to my all SG army after getting a bargain off a guy selling a squad of SG on the cheap.

Converted them to have 4 Power Weapons and the Sergeant with a Lightning Caw.

Only played with them a game so far and managed to kick the crap out a unit of Incubi with an Archon :)
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