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Vanguard Veterans loadout


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83 replies to this topic

#1
Gv0zD

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Hi, everybody!

I got frustrated when I was deciding how to equip my Vanguard Vets. I'm building a DoA list (1500 or 1750), where my VV would act as a hammer unit to deal with Long Fangs, Tau BattleSuits and other similar shooty tough guys.

I've read many threads (here on B&C and outside). Some people suggest equipping VV with a couple of StormShields, TH and PF, while others say that their role is to tie up Long Fangs in HtH and nothing more so no expensive equipment is required.

Since I wanna use my VV as Long-Fang-Crisis-Broadside-Killer I'd like to increase their killiness, so a few PWs or PFs would be nice.

I plan on the following loadout (5 men): Sarge with Glaive (or regular PW), PF+SS, LC+SS, BP+CCW, BP+CCW+MB. With JP that would be 250 pts exactly.
What do you think of it? Is it good, or should I spread upgrades (now I have two models each worth 70 +/- 5 pts)?

Any help is welcome. I would appreciate if you share your experience of using this unit.
Cheers!

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#2
Makkeru

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My plan is to equip my VV with a TH, one extra PW, two Storm Shields.
Would hopefully clean out smaller squads like Longfangs pretty quick. My plan is also to use them as MC assaulters.

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#3
Demoulius

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well im a huge fan of a pair of LCS on the sargeant (only costs 15 pts and looks insanely cool to boot :lol: ) aside from that, take whatever you wish really. not a huge fan of SS's on VV's but thats mostly for modelling reasons.

for reference i equiped mine with:

8 man (no jumppack) sarg with dual LC's. a powerfist and a PW. 5 "normal" VV's. they completly devastate whatever they charge, and since they ride around in a SR :D nowhere to run! *chop chop* back in the flying LR guys! *zoom*

er...to much sugar i guess :evil: its a nice hit and run squaad but the lack of FNP and FC (could be easily fixed with an SP on board) and the fact that the SR dies so easily.. (damn, cant fix that :yes: ) means that ive only used the squad a few times. a few times they ravaged my opponents army (with the SR beeing destroyed or otherwise taken out sooner or later...) at other times they were stranded and were reduced to sitting ducks -_-

their effectiveness really relies on the rest of your army. since you mention you run a DoA list getting them there alive shouldnt be the biggest trouble. a balance on how many wargear/men in the squad should be. renember though that even "normal" VV's have 3 attacks a piece with BP and chainsword.

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#4
Gv0zD

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Thanks for quick replies, guys!

Pair of LCs on the Sarge is a nice idea.
Also would it be wise to add Plasma Pistols, or Infernus Pistol to VV, so they were able to shoot at MCs before they charge them?

Regarding my possible list. It would consisit of 2 full RAS (2MG, PF), shooty HG (Plasmas or Meltas), Libby, the aforementioned VV and probably Sanguinor.

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#5
JamesI

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I wouldn't bother with plasma or infernus pistols on a VV. They can't fire them if they use heroic intervention, and if you're paying for VV you're paying to heroically intervene.

I like Demoulius' unit, though I only run 6 vets in the squad since I haven't bothered to build/paint more.

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#6
Gv0zD

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So, would a pair of LC, PW and PF on 5-6 guys be enough? Or adding 1-2 SS for survivability should have its benefits? The SS is the thing that bugs me most about VV - there are people who use them, but 2 SS = 40 pts, and it's a lot.

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#7
JamesI

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Personally, I don't bother with storm shields and that decision has rarely upset me.

I really would prefer to stay under 300 points with a 5-6 man unit.

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#8
Redo

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Demoulius suggested the Twin Lightning claws. Even though they are way cool I would avoid this the squad cost 115 points and you are in essence already paying for a power weapon. I like your idea of either a TH or PF and then that power weapon. I would then spend the points on either another PW or perhaps one lighning claw.
If you are chasing MC a Storm Shield or two would be cool.
As James suggested do not take Plasma Pistols, Infernus Pistols. You will want to be using that Heroic Intervention and this weapons will prevent that and cost a ton.

#9
Demoulius

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cprrect. you already pay for a PW and can upgrade to a LC for no additional cost. you can also spend the points for the dual claws on another model. so you have 2 models with LC's :rolleyes:

either way the model was more made for coolness then for effectiveness. all might i say, having 3 LC attacks base and 4 on the charge, on a model is very nice :lol: he almost becomes a mini-captain :)

ive had this squad charge 10 grey hunters and wipe them in 1 combat phase. havent seen them in combat with MC's sadly but theyre equally effective against vehicles B) a meltabomb here and there wouldnt hurt though. as for MC's. upgrade the PF to a TH. for the 5 points you reduce its I to 1, even if you dont kill it. very handy for units like hive tyrants and deamon princes. who will otherwise nom nom your unit before they get to do anything :o

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#10
shatter

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I'm fond of

glaive
lc + mb
lc
pw
pw + mb
th

295 and every model is different and half can crack armour. Basically a HI enabled sanguard with a 3+ save and serious CC anti-armour.
If one wants SS in it, I'd add 2 models with SSs, one with bombs, both without PWs and keep them out of attacking in CC when it suited. (to avoid regular attacks allowing wound allocation shenanigans...) however, at 8 models, I'd begin to consider redesigning it to be a 10 man for combat squadding goodness on a single reserve roll.

I know it'll overkill stuff, but i tend to favour immediate resolution than chance total failure by trying to drag stuff out.
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#11
Gv0zD

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I'd begin to consider redesigning it to be a 10 man for combat squadding goodness on a single reserve roll.

I know it'll overkill stuff, but i tend to favour immediate resolution than chance total failure by trying to drag stuff out.

Me too. At 1500 pts I can take 2 full RAS, HG, Libby, which cost me 820 pts. Even with 2 Priests it leaves me with 500+ spare pts. Thus I can take 5-man RAS for objective sitting (not a good idea IMHO) and maybe Sanguinor (not sure if he's worth it). On the other hand a 10-man VV (combat squadded) will provide the necessary punch (and as mentioned on a single reserve roll). I might reconsider my list in favor of 10-man VV squad.

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#12
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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i like 10 man VGV because they can combat squad so i get two units for one slot, leaving room for 2 baal preds.

also, i'm torn on storm shields because i never know if i want to give the valuable guy an invulnerable save, or if i want to put it in a more or less disposable model, so i'll be less afraid to put the big hits on him, rather than risk losing a storm shield and a powerfist. i know it doesn't maximize attacks, but it's just something i think about a lot.

#13
Gv0zD

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I should say I like sahtter's loadout. I think I'll go this way and expand to 10-man squad.
This way I'll be able to deploy 2 combat squads: Lc, Glaive, Pw, SS, Pw+MB (that's one) and LC, TH, PW, LC+mb, SS (that's two). Every squad will have two re-rolls to hit, one SS, and MB. Though the TH squad is better suited to hunt MCs or tanks.
The SS guys will carry normal CCWs and would serve as wound allocators (fluff-wise - the shield guys, who cover the marines preparing to strike).
Would that work?

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#14
Grizzly Adams

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I am just startin out with the vanguard vets as well, i am tryin out a 5 man squad
5 Jump Packs
Sarge - LC/SS
LC/SS
PW/SS
PF/SS
TH/SS

It comes out costin 350 pts. Kinda pricey, but should be survivable and killy. Only have one game under my belt with them, and they scattered out of assault range the turn they came in, right in front of 30 lootas, so needless to say, they didnt last long. Hopin to have a little better luck with them next go round.

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#15
Gv0zD

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Tough luck :lol:
I think you take too much SS into the squad. I mean, yeah, they'll make the squad more survivable, but on the other hand, there are only 5 models, and I'd expect large amounts of shooting, so even SS would eventually fail.
I've decided to go 2x5-man squads, so my opponent would have to choose between them, and they were able to deal considerable damage and soak some damage (due to SS).

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#16
Grizzly Adams

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I think you take too much SS into the squad. I mean, yeah, they'll make the squad more survivable, but on the other hand, there are only 5 models, and I'd expect large amounts of shooting, so even SS would eventually fail.


You may be right, i am gonna play test them some more and may end up splitting them into 2 5 man squads with some bp/ccw filler

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#17
Redfinger

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I think your load out needs to be dependent directly on what you want it to do, if you want it to be killy/choppy, then load up the pw's/pf's, if you want survivability then load up the ss's. FOr me I have found that in pure DOA lists flexibility is the name of the game, so I run my VV w/ PW on sarge, 1 PF a 2nd PW and 2 SS's. This load out I have found gives me flexibility. If I need them to take out long fangs or similar they can do it, if I need them to stand toe to toe w/ a mc while my other units get into place for a round or two they can survive. Personally I think anything more than 2 ss's is overkill.

Of course if all else fails, buy some magnets and just magnetize a few of your VV then you can change them up when ever you want.

Ashton

#18
WarpWalker

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I recommend magnetizing the whole lot. This is the last squad in all my army builds I put points into. After the army list is built I average about 250pts on this squad. If I have left over points I know where to add them.

Sgt-jp, lightning claw & ss
Vet-jp, thunder hammer & ss
Vet-jp, bp & pw
Vet-jp, bp & ccw
Vet-jp, bp & ccw

Edited by WarpWalker, 24 February 2011 - 06:56 PM.

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#19
Gv0zD

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I think your load out needs to be dependent directly on what you want it to do, if you want it to be killy/choppy, then load up the pw's/pf's, if you want survivability then load up the ss's.

What's a better way to survive than to slay all your enemies? :P
I tend to go with lots of PWs or LCs (which are better due to re-roll IMHO). PFists are good but they reduce Init. I think I'll add a PF to my non-TH squad, to provide some equality. SS are good for survivability, but if I put them on PW or LC guys I risk losing a very expensive model, but if I take more than one SS+CCW guy into every squad I reduce their killines, so IMHO 1 SS per 5 men is a compromise.

Edited by Gv0zD, 24 February 2011 - 08:36 PM.

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#20
Isryion

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I built 5, which will expand to 10 at some point.

Right now, they're 2xLC (on my sergeant, who was formerly a captain -- glad I found a way to use him!), BP+CS, SS+PF, PS+BP, TH. I'll add one more with a storm shield and claw, and and then I don't know what.

#21
Black Blow Fly

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Here is how I've been running mine lately:

Sergeant: power fist & stormshield
Vet #1: power sword & bolt pistol
Vet #2: power sword & bolt pistol
Vet #3: thunderhammer & bolt pistol
Vet #4: chainsword & bolt pistol

I take the stormshield on the sergeant since I also use the Sanguinor - roughly 1/3 of my games the VV sergeant receives the Angel's Blessing and is a beast - the stormshield is worth the investment for me.

I see a lot of value in running a pair of power fists/thunderhammers in the squad because versus a fully mech list you stand a much better chance of popping vehicles the turn your VV drops. I also like a pair of power swords since it cuts through large squads of Marines - I want my VV to obliterate whatever they charge.

In the past I've used a squad a lot like what Grizzly has posted - they are expensive but sometimes they'll survive the initial charge and subsequent enemy shooting phase - they can be quite dangerous.

G :D

Edited by Black Orange, 25 February 2011 - 12:08 AM.

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#22
TrentL

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I recommend magnetizing the whole lot. This is the last squad in all my army builds I put points into. After the army list is built I average about 250pts on this squad. If I have left over points I know where to add them.

Sgt-jp, lightning claw & ss
Vet-jp, thunder hammer & ss
Vet-jp, bp & pw
Vet-jp, bp & ccw
Vet-jp, bp & ccw


Personally I don't like that the guys with the SS who are going to take the heavy shots are also the guys with the weapon upgrades....

#23
Black Blow Fly

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If they survive then they can still bring the pain. I have found lightning claw and stormshield is the best all around combo. I use the vets without SS to stack wounds.

G :)
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#24
Gv0zD

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When I started this thread, I was confused by two different opinions: 1) turning VV into hammer unit and 2) keep them cheap and simple to lock shooters in CC.

Now, I personally stick (and always did) to the 1st one. But I am not fond of the idea of giving SS to Vets with upgraded weapons. If I understand correctly, VV hit hardest on their first turn so having as many PW/LC/PF maximizes the damage. If I take a few "normal" marines to stack wounds, I decrease my damage output. And If I put SS on the upgraded guys I increase their price, and hence I'll have, say, 2 normal models, and 3 pricey ones, which I would not want to lose.

TBH, I am not fond of the loadout, WarpWalker suggested. The one proposed by Black Orange is more preferable, however I'd put the SS on the CCW guy, but on the other hand, I understand why the PF-guy has SS, it makes sense to me.

Black Orange, you said you liked LC+SS combo, but there isn't any in your loadout... :evil: B)

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#25
WarpWalker

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Gvozd- Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting anyone should use my build. I don't believe a squad with so many veritable combinations has "the perfect" price-to- performance ratio. I do believe however what up grades you give them should come after your army is built as they are not your whole army. I am generally left with about 250pts to spend on this unit. I used to put a SS on every guy. This came as a huge waste and cost my other squads some helpful upgrades of their own. Such a rookie thing to do but I had to learn. :mellow:
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QUOTE (Brother Captain Kezef @ Feb 22 2011)
To me, the BA are caught between humanity and inhumanity. They embrace culture, art and literature to better understand WHY
they fight but they must struggle eternally with a beast within trying to drive them to destruction for it's own sake.