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Tactical Marines. Are they worth it?


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42 replies to this topic

#1
Hungry26

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Hi guys i am new to Blood Angels and the B+C.

I am about to start a blood angels army and i was wandering if tactical marines are a good idea? I am planning on running Death company 10 w bolters, TH, Pw in a storm raven with a DC dread with blood talons for sure (just love the models). This list would be somewhat of a hybrid with some mech (storm raven, vindicator and/or predators) or a toned down DOA list. My main enemies will be Tyranids/Tau (one guy collecting both), vanilla marines, orks, chaos marines.

So the question is are tactical squads worth it in a blood angels army? And if they are/aren't is the blood angels battle force worth buying? Or should i just go with Assault marines?

Thanks Hungry

#2
Schultzhoffen

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I haven't being playing BA for long but I DO have 1 Tac Squad in a rhino. They hold objectives, my assault marines seize objectives.

Melta gun/flamer and MM. 220 points. Reasonably cheap and durable.
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#3
MrDante

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Tac squads are great. being able to shoot further than 12" will help with nids and orks for sure. I play an all assault army and find myself wishing I could have 2 rounds of shooting before having to charge enemies with a higher init. having a heavy weapon is also very nice. Plasma canons are a great deal for 5 points.

Yes the BF is a good deal, I however would bash the 2 JP squads together to come up with a 10 man assault squad instead of 5 DC and 5 RAS.

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#4
Gv0zD

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Short answer: their utility depends on your army style. In all jumpy list they are not neede. In mechanised or hybrid ones they are pretty useful. As was mentioned, they are good for objective sitting.

In my 1000 pts hybrid list and in my 1500 mech list I run a squad of ten with melta gun, missile launcher and combil melta with razorback (with flamer of heavy bolter). Split them in two squads: one with missile to guard objectives, the other with meltas to ride razor and hunt tanks. They perform greatly.

I just find assault marines sitting on objectives as a waste of points, as they don't have the ranged weapons to support your assaulting troops.

As I said, jumpy list is another story - it's all about speed and versatility, so no sitting and camping :evil:

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#5
deftoneage12

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I run 2 Tact squads in my list:

10man Missile, Flame, Rhino
10man Plasgun, PlasCan, Rhino

I use them for objectives. Flame is nice against troops and the missile is good against troops for the blast and krak for tanks/walkers. I use the plasmas against termies and other beasts of that nature. Those guys are tough and can do the job really nice if positioned properly, you can use the rhino for cover if needed also.

If your running against a lot of 'Nids Id go with some heavy bolters and assault cannons. Maybe taking a Baal with that load out.

As for the Battleforce, its an up and down for people, some love it some dont; I personally purchased it. I dont run death company so Im using the models to kit bash for some Vanguard Vets and the RAS and Tac. Its a decent buy if your just starting out, if you choose to run no tactical units: kit bash them with the DC sprue to make a larger DC unit. Good luck with the build and welcome!!

#6
Hungry26

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Thank you for your comments.

I absolutely LOVE Death Company so i will not change them into assault marines, but is it possible/worth to convert tac. marines into assault marines?
Or should i just leave them as they are?
The bad thing about them is that at 10 men in a rhino they cannot take a Sanguary Priest which isn't that good. Do tac marines even need Sanguary priests?
So for a beginners 1000pt hybrid list is the battle force good? Also should i convert the rhino into a razorback? If yes how (as in where could i get the parts from)?

Sorry for the lot of questions but I am excited 'bout Blood angels.

#7
Gv0zD

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Battleforce is good for beginners.
As for Rhino/Razor question. You'll need a Rhino for DC, as you'll mosyt likely move it flatout and pop smoke. Razor is good for combat squadded tacts, so you may mount 5 men squad and a priest there.
But tbh I don't think they need one. They don't benefit heavily fom FC, and you can keep them within FNP buuble of your RAS-attached priest.

Basically, you'll need both Rhino and Razor in 1000 pts list.

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#8
deftoneage12

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I absolutely LOVE Death Company so i will not change them into assault marines, but is it possible/worth to convert tac. marines into assault marines?


Its possible, you just need CCW and Bolt Pistol Sprue. Jump packs if you are doing jump

Or should i just leave them as they are?


Your choice

The bad thing about them is that at 10 men in a rhino they cannot take a Sanguary Priest which isn't that good. Do tac marines even need Sanguary priests?


They dont "need" one but having the FNP would make them crazy sweet

So for a beginners 1000pt hybrid list is the battle force good?


Thats what I run and it works for me. But remember you dont need a fancy army list to win, just good tactics and good dice rolling. but having one just makes it easier :)

Also should i convert the rhino into a razorback? If yes how (as in where could i get the parts from)?


I have all my rhinos converted. I use magnets to do it. You can buy the parts on bitz stores online such as, bitz barn, thewarstore, See pics below.

I took a piece of sprue and glued it to the inside of the hatch then i glued a rare earth magnet to it
Posted Image

I took the hatch top pieces and glued them together and added rare earth magnet to each one of them. Now i can interchange between a rhino and a razor back
Posted Image


Here is a link to a tutorial
This guy uses smaller sized magnets. I use bigger ones obviously

hope this helps!

Edited by deftoneage12, 11 March 2011 - 07:40 AM.


#9
Deschenus Maximus

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I usually run at least 1 Tac squad. I find that their versatility supplements Assault Squads' offensive focus quite nicely.

They don't need a SP in most situations, as your other, more killy elements will usually get more unwanted attention. Just use them conservatively, and they will survive untill the last turn to capture or contest an objective and thus win you the game!

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Alternate method of magnetising Marines / underslung Multimelta conversion

 

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#10
captain Angel

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Here is a tip that i find extreemly effective.

set up your tactical squad that will not be moving 12 inches away from the objective, preferibly in a building, so that the enimy has to ither go for the objective or your marines and on the last turn assult them and ether take or contest the objective.
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#11
Brother nathan

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tactical marines are good. they offer flexibility. but i think assault squads are better even though they specialise(apparently...)

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for they are the true storm and they shall not be denied! For the Emperor and Sanguinius they will fight!


#12
Cockroach

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If you're big on BA I'd suggest building up a wide range of models so you can be versatile with your lists.
Keep your tactical squads, you'll definitely find a use for them as you write different builds (as has probably already been said, great for holding base objectives and cheap weapon upgrades) but I'd also start getting some assault marines, these are the guys that are going to win you games. Of course, this is all easier said than done though with the price of models these days...
I really like the DC models too, its just a shame theyre so costly now. The best way to run a DC I find is to keep them small and keep them simple.... that way you get a decent unit for a decent price. Opponents are always terrified by the DC so theyre going to attract a lot of fire, so you can use this to your advantage.

#13
Emperors Immortals

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Some real nice posts above, great pointers.DC are terrific, il lalways write a unit into my list where i can, just remember that its our sacred duty to allow our fallen brethren to find final death in battle - so if there alive at the end of the game youve made a mistake <_<


I may be the only person ive seen who will take 6 tacs in a RB, i stick on a LasPlas and itll sit on objectives for a good amount of time.Not the most efficient build i know, but our bolters truly are great anti-infantry.This unit has held objectives and broken units like IG melta squads, eldar gaurdians and even ork boyz.

So yes, tacs are very much worth taking - and we are probably the most versatile codex to date with list building options.

emperorsimmortals.pnggallery2900493031545.pnggallery_29004_9303_1940.png

forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#14
spec.ops

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Go with the more versatile option and pick Scouts over BA Tac Squads. They do more, support more, and are harder to kill. where as Tac Squads are only good if you keep them in the rear objective - boring! And, they don't even support forward elements all that well other than the random LC or ML shot. Why am I thinking of space pups?

#15
Rob_Loken

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I used a small 5 man unit with a plasma pistol yesterday against Orks and they really helped distract from attacking my assault units who were engaged with Biker Nobz and Wazzdakka. They survived for 5 turns just shooting up battle wagons and harrassing the Boyz. I find them very useful against horde armies like Tyranids and Orks, not so much Guard because an Assault squad can tear through them before they even look up to see what the noise was.
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#16
Hungry26

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Thanks again guys.

So as soon as my magnets arrive ill buy the battle force. What would be a good extension for it (i mean what should i add to it for an effective list). Also i know i said i am getting magnets but what heavy weapons should i arm the Tac squad with?

#17
Gv0zD

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Thanks again guys.

So as soon as my magnets arrive ill buy the battle force. What would be a good extension for it (i mean what should i add to it for an effective list). Also i know i said i am getting magnets but what heavy weapons should i arm the Tac squad with?


To cut long story short, here's my recent 1k list

--HQ--
Reclusiarch - 130
Honor Guard (jump packs, 4 meltas) - 205

--TROOPS--
RAS (10 men, 2xMG, PF) - 235
TACT (10 men, MG, ML) w/Razorback (flamer) - 235
DC (6 men, Power Fist) w/Rhino - 195

TOTAL = 1000
---------------------

I love Missile Launcher in Tacts - it's free, it's flexible, it's good against armor.

Dances with Smurfs - my 12-year old Ultramarines army

Flying with Angels - my current Blood Angels WIP Blog


#18
BlueThumb

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Lot of great info on this thread! Welcome Hungry26. If you decide you need to buy Rhinos at any point in the future, do yourself a favor and buy Razorbacks instead. For only a few bucks more, you get all the bits to make both vehicles.

#19
Hungry26

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Thanks again guys.

So as soon as my magnets arrive ill buy the battle force. What would be a good extension for it (i mean what should i add to it for an effective list). Also i know i said i am getting magnets but what heavy weapons should i arm the Tac squad with?


To cut long story short, here's my recent 1k list

--HQ--
Reclusiarch - 130
Honor Guard (jump packs, 4 meltas) - 205

--TROOPS--
RAS (10 men, 2xMG, PF) - 235
TACT (10 men, MG, ML) w/Razorback (flamer) - 235
DC (6 men, Power Fist) w/Rhino - 195

TOTAL = 1000
---------------------

I love Missile Launcher in Tacts - it's free, it's flexible, it's good against armor.



Ok so i really like that list but i am not sure if i want the honor guard as my friends don't play many vehicles, Tau player has a devilfish and hammerhead, the marines a rhino each, and the ork army is a swarm rather than a speed freaks army. What would be a good replacement for them or should i just keep them? (By the way i am not sure but should i start a new thread in the army lists section for this kinda stuff?

#20
Emperors Immortals

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I would be tempted to replace the HG with either another tac squad ( i think you can add arhino as well) or even a sterngaurd squad if the special ammo will be useful to you (i love these guys).Maybe even replace your meltas with plasma since you dont engage much heavy mech.

emperorsimmortals.pnggallery2900493031545.pnggallery_29004_9303_1940.png

forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#21
Tabgoi

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If you're big on BA I'd suggest building up a wide range of models so you can be versatile with your lists.
Keep your tactical squads, you'll definitely find a use for them as you write different builds (as has probably already been said, great for holding base objectives and cheap weapon upgrades) but I'd also start getting some assault marines, these are the guys that are going to win you games. Of course, this is all easier said than done though with the price of models these days...I really like the DC models too, its just a shame theyre so costly now. The best way to run a DC I find is to keep them small and keep them simple.... that way you get a decent unit for a decent price. Opponents are always terrified by the DC so theyre going to attract a lot of fire, so you can use this to your advantage.


I hear you on this one. I paid less for my Issue 300 of WD then a current copy costs (and its only around four times as thick..). Lets not get started on the regular models.

Now, on point. I love tac squads, I will always field them in my main battle lists. Specialty lists like DOA obviously change that. But tac squads do exactly what tehy are designed to do, add flexibility to your battle plan. Flexibility is key. As for the honor guard, if you are not facing many tanks, I would toss in some power weapons. To see how much just a PW or two can change close combat outcome, take two tac marine squads and run an assault between the two of tehm with no PWs. See how long it lasts. Then toss a PW in the mix and watch it change. Its night and day.

On the subject of magnets, since I am stripping my army for repainting I decided to magnetize it as well. It is so much easier in real life than it looked on the tutorials it is not even funny. After the first mini I could drill and magnetize a ten man squad in under ten minutes, no dremel needed. My reccomendation is 7 tac marines per squad get the full glue treatment, the vet sgt, and two weapons options marines get full magnets back packs and all. Assault marines, everyone gets magnetized back packs, 4 per squad get arms magnetized. Special characters (i.e. Sang Priests, my DC, chaplains, etc.) I ended up with the back packs, arms, and wrists (this can be a little bit of a pain) magnetized. So I reccomend going for broke when you first put your army together and you will really thank yourself later.

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#22
d503

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185 points for a tac squad with a missile launcher, flamer and a power weapon is one of the best bargains in 40k IMO.

I think as far as troops go, point for point its only beaten by a basic guard squad in a chimera, or a large mob of shoota boys, but both of those have weaknesses far more apparent than the tactical squad. (plus, they are weak to tactical squads!)

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#23
deftoneage12

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Thanks again guys.

So as soon as my magnets arrive ill buy the battle force. What would be a good extension for it (i mean what should i add to it for an effective list). Also i know i said i am getting magnets but what heavy weapons should i arm the Tac squad with?


To cut long story short, here's my recent 1k list

--HQ--
Reclusiarch - 130
Honor Guard (jump packs, 4 meltas) - 205

--TROOPS--
RAS (10 men, 2xMG, PF) - 235
TACT (10 men, MG, ML) w/Razorback (flamer) - 235
DC (6 men, Power Fist) w/Rhino - 195

TOTAL = 1000
---------------------

I love Missile Launcher in Tacts - it's free, it's flexible, it's good against armor.



Ok so i really like that list but i am not sure if i want the honor guard as my friends don't play many vehicles, Tau player has a devilfish and hammerhead, the marines a rhino each, and the ork army is a swarm rather than a speed freaks army. What would be a good replacement for them or should i just keep them? (By the way i am not sure but should i start a new thread in the army lists section for this kinda stuff?


Some terminators would do the trick:
Terminators PF, Storm Bolters - 200pts I think
or Assault Term TH/SS - 225

Put a squadron of Landspeeders x2 - 100
add tornado pattern 20-40 pts each
they are fast and can put a lot of hurt in my experience, very versatile

#24
Emperors Immortals

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I personally love terminators, but ive found lately that a regular tac squad can outgun and out survive them, the termies shine when they are steadly moving forward shooting to engage CC, but thats not so easy.

Add a SP near a Tac squad and just forgetabouddit, there ridiculous to kill.

emperorsimmortals.pnggallery2900493031545.pnggallery_29004_9303_1940.png

forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#25
Noggmoritz

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I personally love tactical marines. They'll always be my top choice as the game evolves unless they become very overcosted. It does kinda stink that Grey Hunters are better and 1 point cheaper (unless you get lucky and get furious charge) and that our vanilla brothers get combat tactics. But tac marines will always have versatility where assault marines do not. Like others have said, they are better suited for balanced or mixed mech armies and heavy assault oriented armies can do without them.