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Tactical Marines. Are they worth it?


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42 replies to this topic

#26
Emperors Immortals

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Ive found that my Ultras combat tactics are more useful then the grey hunters counterattack, but that our chance for the red thirst make ours very much woth while.

I field a counts as Astroboy, he represents the fiery ministrations of my chapters chaplains.The extra red thirst is very helpful ;)



reason for edit; mispelled "counts" and earned teh cuss emoticon - sorry.

Edited by emperors immortals, 12 March 2011 - 04:03 AM.

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forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#27
Isryion

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IMO, having played tacticals since I started playing last year, they're a solid choice and can work well in a BA army. However, I don't think they ultimately play to a Blood Angel's strengths, similar to the sternguard. They are the least mobile of our troops, and in order to make them more mobile, you need to put them near the cost of a fully upgraded RAS squad. Still, like I said, they can work out just fine, I just know that, especially since I've picked up my stormravens, tacticals haven't made my list.

#28
deftoneage12

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Can we get this sticky in the resources?

#29
Gv0zD

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Thanks again guys.

So as soon as my magnets arrive ill buy the battle force. What would be a good extension for it (i mean what should i add to it for an effective list). Also i know i said i am getting magnets but what heavy weapons should i arm the Tac squad with?


To cut long story short, here's my recent 1k list

--HQ--
Reclusiarch - 130
Honor Guard (jump packs, 4 meltas) - 205

--TROOPS--
RAS (10 men, 2xMG, PF) - 235
TACT (10 men, MG, ML) w/Razorback (flamer) - 235
DC (6 men, Power Fist) w/Rhino - 195

TOTAL = 1000
---------------------

I love Missile Launcher in Tacts - it's free, it's flexible, it's good against armor.



Ok so i really like that list but i am not sure if i want the honor guard as my friends don't play many vehicles, Tau player has a devilfish and hammerhead, the marines a rhino each, and the ork army is a swarm rather than a speed freaks army. What would be a good replacement for them or should i just keep them? (By the way i am not sure but should i start a new thread in the army lists section for this kinda stuff?

You may equip HG for close combat as others mentioned, or you may remove them to get another tact. I just prefer HG for their built-in priest. Meltas are cheap and scary, that's why I put them in that list.

Dances with Smurfs - my 12-year old Ultramarines army

Flying with Angels - my current Blood Angels WIP Blog


#30
Hungry26

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Gv0zD thank you, and everybody else.

So i am thinking of using your list in an upcoming event at my local store which is in a months or so. Should i keep the meltas or should i put in plasma guns or something different like power weapons. What would be your suggestions?

#31
Emperors Immortals

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Simplly put; do you know what youre likly to face? I usually swap out meltas for plasma and it pretty much always works out - highest AV i face at 1000 is 12.

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forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#32
Gv0zD

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I also prefer plasmas over meltas in HG. If you want to take them, simply remove one DC marine (it's exactly 20 pts needed for 4 plasmas).

Getting back to topic. Some time ago my friend played his 1000 Blood Angels against footslogging Necrons. His assault squads were bogged, his Libby was slain by Necron Lord, his Devs were shot down... His tact was unnoticed. He won the game because the tact remained on objective, and his opponent didn't see tact as a threat.

The thing is that many people don't take BA tacts seriously. A few bandwagon jumpers in my LGS keep saying "this vanilla piece of :D ! We don't need it". But they prove to be wrong. Tacts are very useful, as they don't have to be at the front line to be extremely useful.

Edited by Gv0zD, 12 March 2011 - 11:53 AM.

Dances with Smurfs - my 12-year old Ultramarines army

Flying with Angels - my current Blood Angels WIP Blog


#33
Isryion

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Getting back to topic. Some time ago my friend played his 1000 Blood Angels against footslogging Necrons. His assault squads were bogged, his Libby was slain by Necron Lord, his Devs were shot down... His tact was unnoticed. He won the game because the tact remained on objective, and his opponent didn't see tact as a threat.


This has more to do with very poor strategy by the opponent than with the cost effectiveness of tac squads. I've had the same thing happen with scouts. They were ignored and then able to run to an objective and win the game on what turned out to be the last turn. I'd never recommend taking them on a regular basis, over other choices simply because my opponent made a mistake. You can bet he wouldn't make that mistake a second time.

The thing is that many people don't take BA tacts seriously. A few bandwagon jumpers in my LGS keep saying "this vanilla piece of :tu: ! We don't need it". But they prove to be wrong. Tacts are very useful, as they don't have to be at the front line to be extremely useful.


Implying that tac squads are "necessary" is a bit of an exaggeration. As I've said, I think they're fine. Tactical squads are really only good at one thing: Their combination of some long range firepower AND being a scoring unit. We have units that can do both more cheaply and effectively, but not necessarily at the same time.

In fact, as I was thinking about this, I wondered if the following might be a better idea for a long range firepower "unit" that can hold an objective. 5 Devs + either 5 Tacs or Scouts. Add in as many ML as you want with the Devs and, if you take them, the scouts can actually take a ML or HB themselves. An improved firebase over the 10 Tacticals for roughly the same points. Once again, I'm not saying tacticals can't have a place, but, as mentioned, I haven't been taking them recently and I certainly haven't missed them.

#34
Gv0zD

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This has more to do with very poor strategy by the opponent than with the cost effectiveness of tac squads. I've had the same thing happen with scouts. They were ignored and then able to run to an objective and win the game on what turned out to be the last turn.

Very poor strategy of your opponent is also your advantage ^_^ Also, having a unit, that plenty people consider "not that useful" is beneficial, as your opponent may not pay enough attention to it. Scouts, you say? Many BA players use them, many of my opponents know Scouts' role in BA lists. When I field Tacts, some of them say: "Man, you've spent 200+ points on nothing!" Having "nothing" that can pop up tanks, shoot at 48" and hold objectives is good in my book.

Implying that tac squads are "necessary" is a bit of an exaggeration

I'm not implying they are "necessary". They are useful. Sometimes very useful. Especially in mech or hybrid lists. Of course, I don't take them in my DoA lists, and I don't suggest doing so.

Dances with Smurfs - my 12-year old Ultramarines army

Flying with Angels - my current Blood Angels WIP Blog


#35
Kanis

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I love my Tactical marines, since I started playing. I never leave home without a squad or two. They've always done well for me by supporting my assault lines, or by hunkering down and defending an objective. They live up to their namesake really well, and can tackle almost any situation with a little thought.

My only complaint is that the focus is a little too much on Assault marines this codex reincarnation. Both are great choices, but it clearly favors them instead, where the Angels are quite rigid followers of the Codex Astartes. But, that's just me being a Fluff-Nazi as always. Cheers.
"From shame and shadow recast. In black and gold reborn."

#36
Isryion

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Very poor strategy of your opponent is also your advantage


Yes, you should certainly exploit your enemy's weaknesses, I'd only point out that my opponent's lack of knowledge about the value or a unit doesn't actually make me a better player;) Around here, no one is going to be surprised by a move like that.

#37
Makkeru

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I think it often comes down to your opponent. When I field tacticals, I feel more static and if the opponent has outflanking or fast moving units they are at disadvantage since they are more difficult to move around.

The idea about a group of scouts and a group of devastators seems quite viable to me, might have to try that out :D

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#38
spec.ops

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OP

NO

Edited by spec.ops, 13 March 2011 - 11:28 PM.


#39
Brother Theseus

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I recently ordered a BA battleforce. I am planning on building the 5 assault marines as they come. I also already have a squad of 5 DC that I recently removed jump packs from. I am planning on using the 5 spare JP I have now, combined with the 5 DC JP I won't be using from the battleforce. I would then have 10 spare jump packs, enough to make the 10 tactical marines from the battleforce into a 10 man assault squad. In the end I will have 20 assault marines total (combined with 5 I already own) and 10 DC on foot with close combat weapons (they'll go in the rhino). Is this a good plan?

The question I have is whether or not I should make one of the 10 man assault squads into ranged assault marines (is that what RAS stands for?). Without hit and run special rule, I feel like they would easily be caught in assault after moving within range for rapid fire.

And also I'll most likely convert one of the close combat assault marines into a priest.

#40
Emperors Immortals

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Its a nice plan, but at what points level?

Over 1000 and your rhino will probably be shot all to hell, less and you can probably make it work.

Id suggest adding a tac squad and a rhino, or 5 -8 DC in a pod - let teh m land in enemy lines and let em kill till they dead!

EDIT - RaS can mean either Regular Assault Squad or Ranged Assault Squad - on this board it seems to mean an assault squad that took the cheap transpot instead of JP, a tactic which sonds great but rarely works out against other marine unfortunalty.

Edited by emperors immortals, 14 March 2011 - 01:26 AM.

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forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#41
Isryion

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EDIT - RaS can mean either Regular Assault Squad or Ranged Assault Squad - on this board it seems to mean an assault squad that took the cheap transpot instead of JP, a tactic which sonds great but rarely works out against other marine unfortunalty.


On this board, RAS is a holdover term for any "Regular" Assault Squad (jump packs or not) from previous edition to distinguish between them and Veteran Assault Squad (before we had Vanguards)

#42
Brother Theseus

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Id suggest adding a tac squad and a rhino, or 5 -8 DC in a pod - let teh m land in enemy lines and let em kill till they dead!


When I play with my friends, often times the squishy transports get by unnoticed, mainly because there's always something else to be shooting the anti-tank weapons at. When playing my chaos friend, I concentrate all of my firepower on his vindicator first, then his defiler. His rhino carrying plague marines often gets neglected. I'm hoping the same will happen to me, since I'm also fielding a vindicator and a dreadnought. We usually play 1500-1850pt battles.

#43
BigBaals

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Two things I learned in two games yesterday:

Tacticals aren't static - give them a rhino and things will have to pop it. Sit them on an objective. In kill point games, park that rhino sideways to cover your squishier units. Yesterday 10 ignored Tactical Marines spread out between two objectives to hold and contest one at the same time for the win. They are easy to overlook when the Raven', Death Company, and Furioso are in your front yard!

And off topic:

8 Death Company (PWx2, TH) + Chaplain will chew up anything they charge - my Raven' got popped by an outflanking big bug. The Death Company + Chappy piled out and triple assaulted mama-bug, 7 baby bugs, and a couple Shrikes. On my next turn they dual assaulted a Spore and 19 Gaunts, for another absolute win. (2 v. 2 game, my DC racked up almost half our kill points)

Furioso with Blood Talons + 19 Gargoyles = 19 dead gargoyles in a single combat phase

Edited by BigBaals, 14 March 2011 - 04:37 AM.