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Making Noise Marines Scream

WIP Blog Tactica Battle Report

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#26
Bonzi

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It sounds like bad rolling had as much to do with your loss as the mismatched army styles. I'd try running the list again against something else before totally scrapping it. It looks like your theory was sound (excuse the pun).

 

 

Oh no worries, I'm not scrapping the list, just the doom siren unit.  Daemonettes have proven far more effective in the same role that I use the siren squad for.   I am thinking that dropping the doom siren squad would net me enough points to bring in a MoS Soul Grinder for some heavy support/anti-air.

 

The funny thing is, for all my terrible rolling I still won the game by a single point.  There is a lesson here about playing the game until the last throw and not giving up like I so nearly did in the first turn.  It may seem like your luck sucks as you watch your men fall over in scores, but that bad luck might not be relevant to the outcome of the game.  In this game I made one key save on my Herald and one lucky shot with a blastmaster.  At the time these minor things seemed far outbalanced by my terrible rolling on everything else, but in hind sight those were the most important rolls of the game and I made them.

 

 

I agree, sounds alot like really bad rolling on your part. One thing though, you say you're giving him the black mace for sure now but he needs something with better strength to threaten AV...well the black mace is great but it isn't going to do much for you there. What about instead of a power axe for your champion give him a fist? That'd give you a high strength weapon to threaten AV but you'd have to trim points somewhere in addition to trimming points for the mace.

 

Gah, I though the Black Mace counted as a power maul.  I see it isn't and I'm not sure I want it on my S4 lord now.

 

I think I need to stop expecting amazing things from my Lord every game.  His prime roll is to unlock Noise Marines as troops and to help out my bikers with CC/tank killing, not to carry the game by himself.  At this point I think a lightning claw and a meltabomb are enough to change since those two bits of wargear would correct most of the failings I have found in my lord.


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#27
eetdestroyer

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Hey man,

 

I'm really liking your thread so far; informative and easy to follow, which can be hard to achieve for "talky" threads.

 

Just as a reference to one of your earlier battles:

In 6th ed. reserves are 3+ on turns 2 & 3 and automatically arrive on turn 4 (so your oblits arriving on turn 5 isn't ever going to happen).

 

It'd also be cool to see whatever minis you're working on to really get the whole hobby experience out of the thread.

 

Keep up the good work :)

 

\m/


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#28
minigun762

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Why do you think the doom siren squad failed you?
Reading the report it seems like you were very unlucky by taking mass losses on the squad and then coming up against a dreadnought. For a squad geared to kill infantry, it's no surprise they struggled.

Or is it that the anti MEQ niche is covered by blastmasters?
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#29
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So far I love the info on the Noise Marines, I have been on the lookout for a rare army to field and since no Slaneesh force is played in my club I am somehow inclined to start one. I am surprised by the good performance of the MSU squads, but I have several questions on how to field them at 2k points range.

 

Following your logic we speak of 4 MSU and a Doomsiren squad as the core of the army but how to fill out the other army gaps.

 

Your biker lord seems quite useful but what about a terminator one with a full retinue of a terminator squad. This gives you a good alpha strike unit with several combiplasma weapons and a good chance to live across several turns of combat, a delete unit that can either unload a full round of rapid fire plasma and charge in the next turn with I 5 and power weapons as standard. This unit is neither fast or mobile but it is tough and deadly.

 

Would you field a Helldrake with your army if you skip onto the 2k mark?

 

Since Obliterators seems to sometimes work and sometimes not, what about a Havoc squad with lascannons?

 

It seems that the toughest choices for a Slaneesh army without any allies seems to be the heavy support choice, bar the Obliterators what would you recommend?

 

Do you think that giving an additional marine to your MSU squads (Slaneesh number is 6) would help a lot in their survivability or it would be a waste of points?

 

 

I must say that I really look forward to hear more about the Noise Marines. 

 

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#30
Bonzi

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Why do you think the doom siren squad failed you?
Reading the report it seems like you were very unlucky by taking mass losses on the squad and then coming up against a dreadnought. For a squad geared to kill infantry, it's no surprise they struggled.

Or is it that the anti MEQ niche is covered by blastmasters?

 

 

I don't feel like the Doom Siren failed me since I was definetly using it outside of its comfort zone; it's more that they have been superseded by the Daemonettes.  For a few reasons:

 

#1.  As you mentioned, the doom siren has a pretty similar role/target as the blastmaster squads and I find the blastmaster squads are better at it.

 

#2.  I used the siren squad as an aggressive objective taker to pair with my campy msu blastmaster elements.  Point for point I find Daemonettes better for this role.  The Nettes are much much faster, have a way bigger punch in CC, have a bigger range of targets they are effective against (infanty/heavy infantry/walkers/tanks), and bring AP 2 close combat weapons that swing at initiative.  Daemonettes low toughness is offset by their speed and their lack of assault grenades is offset by my blastmasters ignoring cover saves.  I find the synergy Nettes bring to Noise Marine list is far greater than what the Doom Siren offers.  

 

If we were talking about mech lists this would probably reverse.

 

So far I love the info on the Noise Marines, I have been on the lookout for a rare army to field and since no Slaneesh force is played in my club I am somehow inclined to start one. I am surprised by the good performance of the MSU squads, but I have several questions on how to field them at 2k points range.

 

Following your logic we speak of 4 MSU and a Doomsiren squad as the core of the army but how to fill out the other army gaps.

Consider the 4 MSU to be the core of a solid 2k NM list.  Everything after that is flavor and play style.

Your biker lord seems quite useful but what about a terminator one with a full retinue of a terminator squad. This gives you a good alpha strike unit with several combiplasma weapons and a good chance to live across several turns of combat, a delete unit that can either unload a full round of rapid fire plasma and charge in the next turn with I 5 and power weapons as standard. This unit is neither fast or mobile but it is tough and deadly.

I have long considered plasmanators as a solid addition to a NM list.  They give you some much needed resiliency and ap 2 which your core does not provide.  You also are ok to shoot at targets near the plasmanators with your blastmasters as you will still get saves if you scatter onto your own units.

 

I'm not sold on a Terminator lord though unless you keep him very very cheap.  He just doesn't have the speed to be a beatstick.  A terminator lord acts as a rock and a MoS lord is not as good of a rock as a MoN is.  Speed and mobility play to the strengths of MoS while durability play to the strengths of MoN.  I would definetly consider a MoN terminator/plasma or unmarked terminator/plasma squad, but I'm not sold on joining your MoS lord to it.  On the other hand, a MoS Sorc w/telepathy could be a solid consideration in this unit.  The Sorcs powers would force the enemy to come fight the unit rather than bypass it or shoot it to death with plasma.

Would you field a Helldrake with your army if you skip onto the 2k mark?

No, but that doesn't mean it's a bad choice.  I'm not a huge fan of fliers and I don't like how they have changed the game.  6th ed without fliers is a joy to play.  6th ed with fliers is the paper/rock/scissors of the old 5th ed mech spam times ten.  I am very fortunate in that most of the local players in my area feel the same way and this skews my perspective.

 

 If you want a competitive list you'll need a turkey or two.  The only downside is that a NM army gets less use out of the turkey as our blastmasters already cover the MEQ portion of the turkeys role.  You still need it for hordes and anti-flyer.

 

For myself, I intend to ally a Soul Grinder (or 2 at 2k) and use those to provide my anti-air and anti-tank.

Since Obliterators seems to sometimes work and sometimes not, what about a Havoc squad with lascannons?

The only time Obliterators haven't worked for me is when I rolled really bad (reserves/shooting).  Lascannon Havocks are not any more likely to overcome bad rolls.

 

The biggest thing Oblits bring you is multiple sources or AP 1 and 2, the biggest thing lacking in a NM army.  You need those plasma cannon or multi-melta shots to deal with the things your blastmasters are no good for.  You could consider a squad of Lascannon Havocks, but only in addition to Oblits rather than in place of.  I would at minimum have one squad of Oblits in a 2k NM army.

 

As NM your biggest weaknesses are Terminators and Mech spam.  Oblits are a good answer for both.  LasHavocks are only a good answer for one.

It seems that the toughest choices for a Slaneesh army without any allies seems to be the heavy support choice, bar the Obliterators what would you recommend?

Outside of the Defiler, any of the HS slots could have a solid roll in a NM army.  It boils down to play style and the composition of the rest of your list more than anything.

 

Do you think that giving an additional marine to your MSU squads (Slaneesh number is 6) would help a lot in their survivability or it would be a waste of points?

It would add to the durability of the squad, but I think those points are better spent elsewhere shoring up the weaknesses of a NM list.  If the rest of your army is fast/aggressive enough then the enemy will likely leave your MSU squads alone while they deal with more pressing matters.  If you are running a more gunline style army then the extra ablative wound is worth considering.

I must say that I really look forward to hear more about the Noise Marines. 

 

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#31
minigun762

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Why do you think the doom siren squad failed you?
Reading the report it seems like you were very unlucky by taking mass losses on the squad and then coming up against a dreadnought. For a squad geared to kill infantry, it's no surprise they struggled.

Or is it that the anti MEQ niche is covered by blastmasters?

 

 

I don't feel like the Doom Siren failed me since I was definetly using it outside of its comfort zone; it's more that they have been superseded by the Daemonettes.  For a few reasons:

 

#1.  As you mentioned, the doom siren has a pretty similar role/target as the blastmaster squads and I find the blastmaster squads are better at it.

 

#2.  I used the siren squad as an aggressive objective taker to pair with my campy msu blastmaster elements.  Point for point I find Daemonettes better for this role.  The Nettes are much much faster, have a way bigger punch in CC, have a bigger range of targets they are effective against (infanty/heavy infantry/walkers/tanks), and bring AP 2 close combat weapons that swing at initiative.  Daemonettes low toughness is offset by their speed and their lack of assault grenades is offset by my blastmasters ignoring cover saves.  I find the synergy Nettes bring to Noise Marine list is far greater than what the Doom Siren offers.  

 

If we were talking about mech lists this would probably reverse.

Interesting, I just assumed your doom siren squads were mech'd up. That would change things considerably.

 

I always consider doom squads as jumping out of a rhino, rapid fire bolter and template death and then forcing the target squad (if they're still alive) to either assault and face and overwatch or try to out shoot them and get another template to the face.

 

For a footslogging squad, you'd have to pay 4 more daemonettes to afford the rhino, so I see where you're going by just throwing assault bodies on the table.


Edited by minigun762, 16 March 2013 - 01:20 AM.

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#32
Bonzi

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Ask and ye shall receive!  Some WIP pictures of my Noise Marines to add some visual interest.
 

 


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#33
Bonzi

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Well, the Noise Marines just brought home another victory tabling a Nid army.  I'm just going to give a brief synopsis of the battle and try to do a summary of where I am at in my opinions on the units and strategy.  

 

1250pts CSM/Chaos Daemons

 

Lord: MoS, Aura of D., bike, power sword (Yes, still the sword.  The model is one of my few that is finished and painted and I just don't want to revisit him until I've got more done).

 

5 Noise M: blastmaster

 

5 Noise M: blastmaster

 

5 Noise M: blastmaster

 

5 Bikers: x2 melta, power ax, meltabomb

 

2 Oblits: MoN

 

2 Oblits: MoN

 

 

Herald of Slaanesh: greater gift, lesser gift, locus of beguilement (rolled corpulescent and warp breath for my two gifts and kept them both)

 

18 Daemonettes: alluress, lesser gift (rolled breath of corruption and kept it)

 

 

 

So highlights:  

 

It was scouring and my bikers and lord were useful!  I dual charged a carnifex with both the biker and daemonette unit and the Lord rolls three 6's to wound and finishes the guy off before anyone other than the Herald can swing. Stupid lucky I know, but it was a nice surprise as I was just rolling the Lords dice for the sake of form while mentally debating weather the sarg would use a meltabomb or his ax.  After that I play my bikers + lord pretty safe and just backed off to hold the 4pt objective with them.

 

So I played the Herald and Daemonettes very aggressively...so much so that I forgot about his Trygon primes shooting which mowed down about half the unit it one go.  After that they charged the carnifex, the Herald did a wound or two and then the Biker Lord finished him off.  Then I used their consolidation move to bubble wrap the bikers from a counter charge by the Trygon Prime.  Again they ate a ton of shooting but 5 nettes, the alluress and the Herald took the Primes charge and took him down to one wound before he could even swing.  In my turn the Herald, the alluress and one Nette finished him off and moved towards his warlord (a Warrior Prime with two warrior body guards).  I lose the Nettes to his shooting.  In my turn I instakill a warrior with warp breath, then charge the unit taking one wound of overwatch.  I use beguilement to challenge out the warrior prime, take him down.  Then in next turn the herald takes down the final warrior and ends the game and to cap it all off the herald regens her wound.

 

The big takeaway from the game for me was what a great sport my opponent was.  He was just fun to play with and he never got angry or disappointed with a bad roll, he was just there to have fun and I think that's a great attitude to learn from.

 

Lessons Learned:

 

#1.  This game has further cemented in my mind what a solid combination the Slaanesh Daemons make with my Noise Marines.  They are cheap, fast, and all about the close combat while my Noise Marines are durable and static shooting superstars.  The speed of the non-calvary Nettes takes people by surprise when you roll well and move as fast other armies bikes/calvary.  I do know I caught my opponent by surprise when I ran my Nettes 9" and completely changed what they were threatening.

 

#2.  Locus of Beguilement is a 100% must on a Herald of Slaanesh.  Reroll to hit's for the whole unit every turn?  Yes please.  Being able to force a challenge with the character you want?  Sickening.

 

#3.  The idea of the 'Gifts' system seemed really random and bad to me at first, but the majority of the gifts are all useful and the primaris gifts you can sub for are bargains.  Ap 2 weapons that swing at initiative are nothing to complain about.  In this game since I was facing nids I decided to keep the gifts I rolled rather than taking aetherblades.  Corpulesence for the extra wound and 'it will not die' covered up a big weakness of the two wound herald, and it even let me regen the one wound I lost.  Warp breath was handy for taking wounds off monstrous creatures and instagibbing T4 multiwound nids.  Sadly I only got to overwatch with the Corrosive Breath but a template weapon is always a solid choice against swarm armies. 

 

#4.  After this game I feel confident in saying that the power gamers can keep their plague marines and helldrakes, there is more than one way to play chaos effectively.


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#34
Ammonius

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Thanks for posting your findings!

I have put a couple of NM squads on my to-do list, since I play with a wall of spawn, and the sonic weapons deny the cover save I give to the enemy by firing across the front line. I am also impressed by what daemonettes are doing for you. Keep up the good work!



#35
minigun762

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I'm curious if you've ever had to fire your blastmasters in assault mode.
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#36
Bonzi

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I'm curious if you've ever had to fire your blastmasters in assault mode.

Very rarely.  In general my MSU squads are set up in good firing positions close enough to objectives that it only takes one or two turns of movement to capture them.  I always try hold off moving my MSU guys until late game because the first turns are critical and have a bigger impact on the game, thus I want my units firing in their optimal mode during that time.  I also do this because late game a lot of units are broken, destroyed, or tied up in melee and its a better time to move my guys because they no longer have a target rich shooting environment.  If I do need to move and fire it is a nice addition to have the ability to fire a gimped heavy bolter, but I never expect it to do much more than a bolter would do.  To date I think I've killed a couple wolf scouts and a Nid warrior with the assault mode and that is about it.  

 

The varied firing mode is a nice little bonus but it isn't the important facet of a blastmaster which is why I shy away from maxed out units of Noise Marines with Doom Siren, x2 blastmasters and sonic blasters.  It's a unit that is wasted on camping, yet movement makes most of the weapons far over priced for what you are getting.

 

 

To expand on the reasons why I try to avoid moving my blastmasters early game:

 

Noise Marine armies are not alpha strikers (they don't do one devastating attack that they hope to break the enemy with), rather Noise Marines do steady damage that adds up subtly.  The first few games it was frustrating that I wasn't destroying entire units in one go, but then I started to notice that long term I was doing steady damage in such a way that by turn three most enemy units were totally crippled and the game was solidly in my court.  The benefit of this is that Noise Marines don't inspire an 'OMG KILL THEM ALL' reaction in your opponents like a solid hit from a vindi pie plate will.  The squads are small and they are doing a steady damage that most generals don't seem to see adding up, and if you have them sitting back from objectives for the first few turns they seem to take a back seat in target priority to more flashy units like Oblits or high pressure units like Bikers.  In this window of grace, I try to maximize the effect of my blastmasters early on because a good hit on an important squad multiplies five or six times over the course of a full game but often goes unremarked by opponents for the first turn or two.  If I am moving and shooting my blastmasters I am reducing that multiplier effect and getting less bang for my buck when I do go to heavy fire mode.

 

It is really hard to explain how Noise Marines feel to play because they don't really fit into the standard Water/Fire/Earth style philosophies or Alpha Strike-esque gimicks.  I think this is some of the reason why they get overlooked by opponents and people looking to make hard lists.


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#37
Capt_Darius

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I remember this from the 3.5 Emperor's Children, where people just didn't pay much attention to my noise marines because my Siren Prince and Daemonettes were all up in their grills. I never got around to fielding bikers, but wanted to badly. Of course, back then we could have three Doom Sirens and the AC was free, so things were crazy.

 

I'm just waiting for the puppetswar shoulder pads to show up and get the Bedlam Fraternity shoulder pads and heads and then things are gonna get wild for me.

 

My biggest problem is that I've been playing Orkz for so long, I'm used to huge hordes of cheap lightly-armored guys, so going back to Emperor's Children is a bit off for me.

 

It seems like adding Daemons allies is the way to go, but I'm having trouble getting my brain back around them. The game changed so much while I was playing Orkz, it's crazy.


Edited by Capt_Darius, 19 March 2013 - 11:14 PM.


#38
Bonzi

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I remember this from the 3.5 Emperor's Children, where people just didn't pay much attention to my noise marines because my Siren Prince and Daemonettes were all up in their grills. I never got around to fielding bikers, but wanted to badly. Of course, back then we could have three Doom Sirens and the AC was free, so things were crazy.

 

I'm just waiting for the puppetswar shoulder pads to show up and get the Bedlam Fraternity shoulder pads and heads and then things are gonna get wild for me.

 

My biggest problem is that I've been playing Orkz for so long, I'm used to huge hordes of cheap lightly-armored guys, so going back to Emperor's Children is a bit off for me.

 

It seems like adding Daemons allies is the way to go, but I'm having trouble getting my brain back around them. The game changed so much while I was playing Orkz, it's crazy.

 

In ork terms a Noise Marine + Daemonette army is similar to Lootas and Boyz.  You put your guns in the back field and use your expendable CC units to put pressure on the enemy.  The main difference is that the Noise Marines are more durable and reliable than Lootas and the Daemonettes are much faster and more fragile than your typical boyz blob. It's sword and buckler rather than the hammer and shield that the typical ork army is.  The play style is similar enough that it will feel familiar to you, yet different enough to be new and exciting.  I know the Daemonettes are more expensive than Boyz, but in terms of CSM cost they are entirely expendable (which is an element I really like having as it is so rare in a MEQ army).  I think you will find the adjustment is easier than you worrying it will be.

 

I myself played BA and though that I was burnt out on CC, but I find the Daemonettes are similar enough to jump pack marines that I know how to use them but different enough that it seems new and fun.  


Edited by Bonzi, 20 March 2013 - 12:07 AM.

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#39
Capt_Darius

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In ork terms a Noise Marine + Daemonette army is similar to Lootas and Boyz.  You put your guns in the back field and use your expendable CC units to put pressure on the enemy.  The main difference is that the Noise Marines are more durable and reliable than Lootas and the Daemonettes are much faster and more fragile than your typical boyz blob. It's sword and buckler rather than the hammer and shield that the typical ork army is.  The play style is similar enough that it will feel familiar to you, yet different enough to be new and exciting.  I know the Daemonettes are more expensive than Boyz, but in terms of CSM cost they are entirely expendable (which is an element I really like having as it is so rare in a MEQ army).  I think you will find the adjustment is easier than you worrying it will be.

 

I myself played BA and though that I was burnt out on CC, but I find the Daemonettes are similar enough to jump pack marines that I know how to use them but different enough that it seems new and fun.  

That's an incredibly helpful analogy, actually. I also like the imagery of Sword/Buckler vs. Hammer/Shield. I've really got to sit down with the codecies (maybe even buy them) and give them a solid read-through. I swear those things were easier when all the information for each unit was on the same page, rather than in two random places in the book.



#40
minigun762

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The varied firing mode is a nice little bonus but it isn't the important facet of a blastmaster which is why I shy away from maxed out units of Noise Marines with Doom Siren, x2 blastmasters and sonic blasters.  It's a unit that is wasted on camping, yet movement makes most of the weapons far over priced for what you are getting.

 

I hear that. The various weapons don't mesh well at all.

 

As for the daemonettes, I'm glad to hear they are working out for you. I could see how the extra run distance gets them closer to the target faster than the opponent would assume at first. That said, I'm kinda surprised that they aren't dying faster to incoming firepower. Most of the time, they're glorified Guardsmen when it comes to incoming shooting so they seem more durable then I had first given them credit for.


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#41
Brother Ambroz

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Minigun, I think people usually go for his bikers first over the daemonettes. That's what it seemed like from what I read. 
 
Anyway Bonzi, question. When you run your daemonettes do you usually just run them up the board or deepstrike them? Seems like you run them from what I've read but what would you think of deepstriking them? I'm heavily considering getting a squad of daemonettes and C:CD just from reading all your sucess stories with them.

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#42
Tenebris

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So I have been inspired by this awesome thread to try my hand with a Noise Marine centric army. Since my club usually plays at the 1850 mark I had to devise a fluffy and competitive army. I would love to try the daemonettes but this implies the cost of a new codex, new miniatures and a load of money for just 300 points of army, so I opted to use the basic noise marines in two MSU doomsiren squads.

 

So here it goes:

 

Chaos Lord:

  • MoS
  • Melta Bomb
  • Lightning Claw
  • Combi Plasma
  • Terminator Armor
  • Veteran of the Long War

Chaos Sorcerer:

  • MoS
  • Mastery 3
  • Combi Plasma
  • Terminator Armor
  • Veteran of the Long War

Troops:

 

Noise Marines

  • Blastmaster
  • Marine
  • Veterans of the Long War

 

Noise Marines

  • Blastmaster
  • Marine
  • Veterans of the Long War

 

Noise Marines

  • Blastmaster
  • Marine
  • Veterans of the Long War

 

Noise Marines

  • Blastmaster
  • Marine
  • Veterans of the Long War

 

Noise Marines

  • Doomsiren
  • Power Weapon
  • Melta Bomb
  • Marine
  • Veterans of the Long War

 

Noise Marines

  • Doomsiren
  • Power Weapon
  • Melta Bomb
  • Marine
  • Veterans of the Long War

Elites:

 

Chaos Terminators:

  • Terminator
  • MoS
  • Icon of Excess
  • Chainfist
  • Powerfist
  • Combi Plasmas

Fast Attack:

 

Helldrake

  • Baleflamer

Heavy Support:

 

Obliterators

  • 3x Obliterator
  • Veterans of the Long War

 

Now here I opted for 6 Noise Marines MSU of which two serve as an auxiliary melee unit. Both my HQ have terminator armor and can either join one of my MSU or the terminator squad. The obliterators and the helldrake are there since I need every help I can get to be competitive. As you can see all units have VoLW because 2/3 armies that I face are some sort of loyalist marines.

 

I hope I learned the lessons on the MSU Noise Marines and that the list above would be viable in your eyes. So Bonzi, Minigun and other loyal readers, please comment on this 1850 list. 


Edited by Tenebris, 20 March 2013 - 04:32 PM.

There is only the Truth. I do not know what it is, but I do believe in it!

Attributed to Dark Apostle Toren Mar, Chapter of the Broken Seal, 71st Host, Word Bearers Legion.

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#43
Brother Ambroz

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Looks like you're pretty low on high strength/low AP stuff, especially for a larger game. Also your army is very static. Still though it might not be too bad, depending on whether you face alot of mech in your meta. Try it out.


Formerly Tanith Ghost

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#44
Tenebris

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I don't face much in mechanized forces but a good number of Necron and Space Marine armies pop in my club tournaments. I think that between four obliterators, six combi plasma terminators some good AP 2 shooting will come out. 


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#45
Bonzi

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I don't face much in mechanized forces but a good number of Necron and Space Marine armies pop in my club tournaments. I think that between four obliterators, six combi plasma terminators some good AP 2 shooting will come out. 

 

#1.  I would agree with Tanith on the Heavy Support.  Yes you have three Oblits and a Plasmanator unit, but that's two units which means no matter how high your volume of fire is, you are limited to two targets.  Also, once you blow your combi-plasma load you are down to one source of Ap 1-2.  It isn't just volume of fire that you should focus on, it is also the number of units you can target with it and how much of the board you can cover it with.  A single unit of Oblits can only be in one place at one time, which leaves a whole lot of the board open to a clever opponent.  

 

At bare minimum I would say you need two units of two Oblits.  Remember that tanks and 2+ armor are the rock to your scissors.  You have to mitigate the weak spot or certain opponents will get an autowin on you.  I would also say that MoN would be a good addition to the Oblits unless you want to lose them to enemy lascannons/melta which won't have anything better to shoot at.

 

#2.  You've gone a bit overboard on your MSU blastmasters.  Vets of the Long war isn't really worth it on a fearless unit that shouldn't be in close combat.

 

#3.  Consider flipping both your doom siren units for another Plasmanator unit.  Put your lord in one and your sorc in another.  Pair that with two pairs of oblits and you are getting in your opponents face with tough 2+ armor beatsticks/road blocks while in the backfield your blastmasters will be left unmolested to dominate the shooting side of things.  I see a lot of potential in that.


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Necrons

 

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Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

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#46
Bonzi

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The varied firing mode is a nice little bonus but it isn't the important facet of a blastmaster which is why I shy away from maxed out units of Noise Marines with Doom Siren, x2 blastmasters and sonic blasters. It's a unit that is wasted on camping, yet movement makes most of the weapons far over priced for what you are getting.


I hear that. The various weapons don't mesh well at all.

As for the daemonettes, I'm glad to hear they are working out for you. I could see how the extra run distance gets them closer to the target faster than the opponent would assume at first. That said, I'm kinda surprised that they aren't dying faster to incoming firepower. Most of the time, they're glorified Guardsmen when it comes to incoming shooting so they seem more durable then I had first given them credit for.


Well, its a combination of things that are making the Daemonettes work.

#1. My Bikers are a bigger fire magnet and they can weather a lot of it before it starts telling.

#2. Target saturation. When I break cover, I break cover with multiple units. Over saturating an opponents targeting options is a must, and just as important is to make sure that every unit that is revealed is dangerous. Forcing the no win scenario is one of the benefits of having fast units.

#3. Speed. I play on board with decent cover and my Nettes can generally move fast enough to limit their exposure to fire. If you are putting a unit where the whole of the enemy army can see it, you deserve to have it killed. Pushing the flank or cover hopping are both very viable with Nettes.

#4. My Nettes are eating a ton of fire even with my precautions and their speed, and they die in droves. I'm running a blob of 18+ generally and I usually only reach my enemy with ten or less + herald. The important thing is that in a CSM army Nettes are cheap and fearless when it comes to shooting. Those dead Nettes are just a tax I pay to get my Herald into the thick of it, once that happens it all swings in my favor.

Nettes require a very IG blob squad style of thinking where you take mass casualties to obtain a very specific goal, and it is the goal that is important, not the unit.

#5. Don't knock that 5+ save. Yeah, it's the same as Guard get, but the difference is that you always get it. Unless you are getting hammered with multiple flamer templates it takes a whole lot of shooting to gun down all 18 t3 wounds with a 5+ save, and the great part is that you have to kill ALL of them and the Herald or your shooting is wasted.

Minigun, I think people usually go for his bikers first over the daemonettes. That's what it seemed like from what I read.

Anyway Bonzi, question. When you run your daemonettes do you usually just run them up the board or deepstrike them? Seems like you run them from what I've read but what would you think of deepstriking them? I'm heavily considering getting a squad of daemonettes and C:CD just from reading all your sucess stories with them.


I have always run them. Nettes are fast enough that a deployed squad will be able to reach and charge almost any target before a DS unit will. Deployed Nettes are a second turn charge unit while DS Nettes are a third turn charge unit (this factors into my earlier comment in regards to getting your hurt in as early as possible). The other mark against DS is that Nettes are just too fragile to take the shooting that can come with a bad DS scatter. You need the control and speed to get Nettes into positions where they are protected from as much fire as possible and DS is too much of a gamble. It works great in a Daemons army where you can swamp an enemy with multiple DSing units and use banners to guide in the units. As an allies situation you don't have that option.

This is not to say that I would never DS my Nettes. It is nice to have the flexibility that the option grants you, but in general I think the times I would DS my Nettes would be very rare. I might consider it more at larger point levels where I have multiple Slaanesh Daemon units to play with or if it were the only way to bypass a gunlines killing field.

Just remember that Nettes are not amazing on their own, they need to mesh well with the rest of your list and play style before they will shine.

Edited by Bonzi, 21 March 2013 - 01:17 AM.

Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream


#47
Tenebris

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Thanks for the great feedback. I did as you suggested and dropped the Doomsiren squads for a Terminator one. Too bad that even by removing the extra marine from all squads I lack the points to field more than two additional Obliterators. I manage though to field a squad of Raptors with two melta guns. I have seen this chaps in action and I liked them than, I have also read that they can be quite deadly with Mark of Slaanesh on them. Can't wait. 


There is only the Truth. I do not know what it is, but I do believe in it!

Attributed to Dark Apostle Toren Mar, Chapter of the Broken Seal, 71st Host, Word Bearers Legion.

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#48
Bonzi

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I just bought my first Soul Grinder.  Hopefully I can get it put together in time to play it tomorrow night.  I let you guys know how it goes.


Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream


#49
Bonzi

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Alright.  Another Monday night, another battle, another brief report.

 

My List:  The big change-up here is that I dropped 2 Oblits to squeeze in the Soul Grinder.

 

Chaos Lord: mos, bike, pw sword, aura of d.

 

5 NM: blastm.

 

5 NM: blastm.

 

5 NM: blastm.

 

5 Bikers: pw ax, meltabomb, x2 melta

 

2 Oblits: mon

 

 

Herald of Slaanesh: locus of b., greater gift, lesser gift (greater aetherblade, breath of chaos)

 

18 Daemonettes: alluress, lesser gift (cleave)

 

Soul Grinder: mos

 

1239 pts

 

 

It was another game against Tyranids, mission was the scouring.  Opponent ran a nasty Ymgarl genestealer list that caught me by surprise.  

 

For a big change, this is the first game where my MSU squads were basically obliterated.  Two squads of those nasty genestealer squads popped up underneath of two of my MSU squads and spent the rest of the game eating them.  The final squad got hosed by a swarm of gaunts carrying assault 3 guns who piled out of a drop pod and killed all of the NM unit except the sarg.  At the end of the game I had one, count him, one NM model left alive and it was that sarg who survived to run into the enemy deployment zone and capture a 3pt objective.  I got one round of shooting with one blastmaster that netted me 2 warrior kills and I killed a couple stealers with over watch.  Otherwise my blastmasters did as much in close combat (killed 3-4 stealers) as they did out of it...and they died heroically while doing it.  I do give full marks to the little sarg that could.  He didn't kill anything but he still took an objective.

 

Bikes gave a solid performance except for my horrible rolling for armor saves.  They killed off the gaunts and mycetic spore who shot up my NM unit which let the NM sarg get away.  After that they retreated to another objective in the enemy deployment zone worth 4 pts.  I lost over half of the bikers to dangerous terrain and overwatch.

 

Obliterators carried the CSM portion of my list, earning the game MVP position.  They jumped into one of the NM vs stealers combats and punched all the stealers to death but sadly they didn't do it fast enough to save the NM unit.  After that they marched over to the third stealer unit which had appeared in a nearby bunker and flamed the whole unit to death in one go.  After that they hung three wounds onto his Trygon prime and called it a day.

 

Herald of Slaanesh added another Warrior Prime to her kill list...the third in four games.  What a beast.

 

The Nettes took zero casualties the whole game and wiped out the Primes warrior bodyguard before they could swing.  I also got line breaker and first blood with them.  They ended up on the same objective as the lone sarg (they were charging back across the field to hit the Trygon but they ran out of turns)

 

The Grinder wasn't in his element this game, he just didn't have good targets to go after.  I rolled terrible for his gun, missing every time I shot with it.  He did punch a bunch of stealers to death and killed them all off, but like the Oblits he didn't manage to do it before the NM died.  At the end of the game I charged him at the Trygon Prime just for fun.  He put a couple wounds on the Prime and got killed off in the top of the sixth turn.  He didn't do bad, but the Oblits he replaced probably would have done better.  However, I think this is mostly because Oblits are great against Nids.  I can really see this guys potential against other opponents but I'll have to use him a few more times to get a better feel for how he plays.

 

The end result was my Noise Marines being decimated and the Soul Grinder getting busted but by the bottom of turn 6 all he had left was a Trygon Prime with one wound.

 

I won 10 to 1. (Line Breaker, Slay the Warlord, First Blood + 7pts of objectives vs Line Breaker)


Edited by Bonzi, 26 March 2013 - 03:19 AM.

Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream


#50
Tenebris

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The Noise Marines/Slaanesh army continue to impress. I award the Iron Halo to the Aspiring Champion that held the line and captured the objective. It seems that Fearless is a great boon regardless of situation. On a side note, I think that the Soul Grinder is much more viable in higher points games, 1500 +, the Obliterators cover much of his role in lower point games. Can you arrange a 2k point game, I am really curious to see how the Noise Marines perform in that bracket. 


There is only the Truth. I do not know what it is, but I do believe in it!

Attributed to Dark Apostle Toren Mar, Chapter of the Broken Seal, 71st Host, Word Bearers Legion.

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