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IA: The Host Incarnadine 3.0

Blood Angels successors Loyalist

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#1
Plague Angel

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THE HOST INCARNADINE

INDEX ASTARTES

2iivea8.pngCHAPTER NAME: .............. THE HOST INCARNADINE
FOUNDING: .................. DISPUTED (CLAIMED 2ND [M.31])
CHAPTER WORLD: ............. SANGREAL
FORTRESS MONASTERY: ........ THE BLOOD GATE
GENE-SEED (PREDECESSOR): ... BLOOD ANGELS (SOME RECORDS INDICATE DESCENT FROM THE ANGELS SANGUINE,
DEFYING THE CHAPTER'S CLAIM OF BEING PART OF THE 2ND FOUNDING)
KNOWN DESCENDANTS: ......... NONE



"To feel the pain of the primarch is to feel the touch of the Emperor. To call it a curse is to misunderstand our glory."

- Captain Demeter of the 5th Host,
Master of the Marches



T
hough their origins are shrouded in mystery, the traits common to the sons of Sanguinius are obvious among the Astartes of the Host Incarnadine. Their lineage is not in question, only the date of their Founding. No mention of the Chapter is to be found in any official Imperial records prior to M36, leading some to suspect they belong to the 21st or even 13th Foundings. Some apocryphal accounts do not mention the chapter by name, but tell of warriors consistent with the Host's heraldry marching alongside their parent chapter, the Angels Sanguine. These documents describe time periods between M32 and M34, but their accounts are incomplete or contradictory. Such speculations are unheeded by the Chapter itself. According to their own claims, their origins lie in the Second Founding, their ranks drawn from veterans of the Horus Heresy. Though few would accept their claim as accurate, the Host Incarnadine turns deaf ears to any argument, believing themselves the equal of any other descendant of the Blood Angels. The white-washed walls and golden spires that cover their home-world of Sangreal are draped with red banners, giving homage to the heroes of the IX Legion.

Whatever the date of their Founding, it is true that the Host Incarnadine possesses more than a few relics within their armory. The majority of their battle-brothers eschew more modern equipment, taking to the field clad in Maximus-pattern power armor, leaving what MkVII suits they have to the more honored positions of veteran or Death Company. While many who bear Sanguinius's gene-seed become inclined towards artistry, the Angels of the Host Incarnadine lean towards becoming historians as their method of self-expression.
Sangreal
The homeworld of the Host Incarnadine is an oceanic one, with large island chains instead of true continents. These islands are dominated by temples of marble and gold, erected in honor of the Emperor and Sanguinius. The majesty and piety of Sangreal's temple-islands rivals that of any shrine-world belonging to the Ecclesiarchy, and each is home to sacred and prized relics, from spent bolter casings to legendary oaths of moments. The largest of these temples is the Blood Gate, the fortress-monastery of the Host, its foundation engraved with hymns praising the battles of the Legiones Astartes Blood Angels. The Blood Gate's reliquary houses the most prized item of the chapter: a feather said to have fallen from Sanguinius's wings at the moment of his last breath.
With their vaunted claims of origin mostly uncorroborated, it has become ever more important to the Host that their recent battles are accurately recorded. Every battle-brother is considered an eye-witness to living, breathing history, and many of the Angels become inclined towards keeping small, personal relics of their own as mementos of their battles.

As the curse of Sanguinius has worsened over time, no Chapter that carries his name has escaped the effects. In addition to the Red Thirst and the Black Rage, the curse has manifested among the Host Incarnadine as a terrible stigmata. During times of intense battle or emotional distress, psychic wounds open up on the palms and backs of the Astartes, blood dripping from their hands and from non-existent wings. Otherworldly in nature, the blood has been known to drip through the power armor covering the wounds as if it was simply not there, however sound the armor's protection remains. With the handles of bolters and chainswords coated by the Host's red grips, it is quickly apparent whether or not a weapon has yet seen battle. Though undeniably a mutation, the Host refuses to acknowledge this corruption as any sort of shame. Instead, they stubbornly rejoice in it, viewing it as proof of their closeness to the heart of their primarch and incorporating it into their rites of battle. Working themselves into a frenzy, Chaplains accompany their inspired rhetoric with red anointings, pressing their palms against the heads of sergeants before deployment.


Organization fwhmkx.png

As their forebears, the Host Incarnadine adheres to the doctrines laid out in the Codex Astartes, with minor differences owing to the influence of their world's island culture. While they have lost none of the mobility of their brothers, favoring the same quick aerial assaults, skimming over the battle-field like rafts upon an ocean, they have come to appreciate the advantage of medium-range fire as well as close quarters combat. While even members of the Tactical Reserve Companies sometimes take to the skies, equipping themselves with Astartes jump packs, bolters and other rapid fire weaponry are reached for as often as melee weapons.

In one area does the Host Incarnadine adhere more closely to the Codex than their parent chapter, maintaining the same titles and offices for their Captains in place of the variant titles the Blood Angels and their successors use.

The Host uses the same heraldric colors as the Blood Angels, with Tactical squads designated red, Assault squads yellow, and Devastator squads blue. However, rather than bearing the colors on their helmets, the squad color is displayed on the sergeant's right pauldron. The islands of Sangreal are rich in a precious metal similar to gold, but with a rippling, blood-red sheen, and this red gold is used to trim the armor of Brother-Captains and the Sanguinary Guard. While the Captains and Veterans of the Incarnadine maintain the same colors as their fellows, their armor becoming ever more ornate, the Chapter Masters instead serve as bleak reminders to their councils. In a tradition going back to the first, the brother who inherits the title the Lord of Hosts has his armor painted black, clad in the funerary armor of the Death Company. For the rest of his command, the Lord shows to his council that there is but one end any son of Sanguinius can expect. In keeping with this morbid outlook, the deathmasks normally reserved for Chaplains are also worn by the Sanguinary Priests, trading crozius for narthecium as the badge of office differentiating the two.

In recent years, however, the Host now differs considerably in the composition of their Tenth Company. In the opening centuries of M41, Chapter Master Kanawai, current Lord of Hosts, claimed to have had a vision mid-battle of Sanguinius weeping over the Host's fallen. Leaning over them, the primarch touched each of his fallen sons on the head, inspiring them to fight on despite their wounds. When Kanawai looked again, blinking the vision away, he saw the Death Company fighting before him, clad in armor mirroring his own. After the battle, Kanawai placed a new edict on the Chapter that has been binding since:

Oh sons of the Emperor,
Honor thy primarch;
respect alike brothers both great and humble;
May everyone, from the scout to the veteran
Be free to go forth and walk in the Company of Death
Without fear of harm.
Break this law, and be excommunicate.


Each other now Company maintains their own Scout squads, training them as instructed by the Master of Recruits. The Tenth, meanwhile, has become a standing force of Death Company. Viewing the madness that comes on all children of Sanguinius as holy, the Host refuses to place those who fall to the Black Rage in stasis as their brother chapters do. Rather, when not being thrown into the fires of battle, the Death Company Incarnadine are placed on the moon Olawe. There, they run wild, slaking their blood-thirst against the megafauna that dwell on Sangreal's crypt moon. Not for the Host the executioner's axe or the secluded sleep in a Tower of the Lost. Anything other than death in battle is unacceptable, be it battle against the Chapter's enemies or against the horrors that dwell in their territories. Though nominally placed at 100 Astartes, no census has been taken of the Tenth Company since the reorganization, nor has news of the Chapter's restructuring yet reached Baal.


Selected Battle Honors fwhmkx.png

The Breaking of Thorns (533.M37)
When the Dark Eldar of the Kabbal of Reaching Thorns dared to attack Sangreal itself, the Host fell upon the xenos without mercy for their insult. With their exit routes cut off, the Kabbalites were forced to fall back to Olawe, where the Death Company left no survivors. Pressing their advantage, the Host was able to hunt the Dark Eldar throughout the sector, rendering the Reaching Thorns completely extinct.

The Golem Wakes (845.M41)
After a force of 5th Company Scouts fails to return from their training rites, their senior brothers investigate their disappearance. They discover a nest of Genestealers belonging to a minor Hive Fleet, designated Golem. Rumored to be a surviving tendril of Hive Fleet Behemoth, the Host avenges the deaths of their scouts and is able to repel the Tyranids out of their space.

The Great Enemy (999.M41)
As a force of Word Bearers pours from the Maelstrom, the Host act as sentries against the warp storm, evenly matched until the traitors call upon the daemonic forces of Nurgle. Now outnumbered, the Host's prospects look bleak until the arrival of the 191st Phiac Nagas. Reinforced by the Scions, the Host recaptures the edge, driving the Chaos force back into the Maelstrom.

dnc64p.jpg14x2nbo.jpg
Host Incarnadine chapter colors, standard and sergeant iconography


Host Incarnadine in Deathwatch fwhmkx.png

Host Incarnadine characters have an appreciation for history both ancient and recent, and honor the deeds of the other members of their kill-team. They have +5 Agility and +5 Fellowship. Like Blood Angels, they may use Pilot (Personal) as a Basic Skill, and have the Red Thirst Chapter Demeanour. Host Incarnadine Librarians use the Flesh Tearers Psychic Powers found in Honour the Chapter, pp. 56-57.

Solo Mode Ability:
Marks of the Primarch

Action: Free Action
Required Rank: 1
Revealing the special affliction of the Host, the character receives 2 Wounds unmodified by armor or Toughness and gains the Fear (2) Trait for a number of rounds equal to the Battle Brother's Rank, divided by 2 (rounding up). These wounds may not be healed by the Medicae skill, but may be healed by other means.
Improvement: At Rank 3 and above, this effect may be prolonged by taking 1 extra Wound per Round. At Rank 5 and above, while under this effect, the Battle-Brother may re-roll one Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill test per round.

Edited by Plague Angel, 03 May 2014 - 11:15 AM.


#2
Plague Angel

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Right, so.

New scheme, new history, new culture, same mutation. I've trimmed the fat way down, because I've realized that I quite enjoy IAs that are short and punchy. It's easier to C&C that way too.

Threw Deathwatch rules up too, for funsies.

Edited by Plague Angel, 11 August 2014 - 10:50 AM.


#3
incinerator950

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Beautiful


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#4
Dosjetka

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Aye, it's an enjoyable read. There a couple of things though that I would like to point out:

 

In recent years, however, the Host now differs considerably in the composition of their Tenth Company. In the opening years of M40, Chapter Master Kanawai, current Lord of Hosts, [...]

 

The parts in bold text bother me somewhat because if your current Chapter Master already held his title in the opening years of M40, that would mean that he's approx. 2'000 years old. That's quite something, considering that Dante, lord of the Blood Angels, is known to have held the position of Chapter Master for about 1'200 years. I realise that there's not much of difference number-wise, but an extra 800 odd years is a lot in a galaxy which is basically one massive battle field. So, either you could say that Kanawai is still the current Chapter Master and he received his vision in the opening years of M41 (which would make the Blood Angels not hearing of the changes of organisation more plausible too) or you could say that Kanawai was a previous Chapter Master and leave the date as-is. You could also not follow my advice and leave it as-is, because you have the right to do so and frankly, it's not a massively bothersome piece of detail.

 

Now, one thing I really liked was this:

 

The Blood Gate's reliquary houses the most prized item of the chapter: a feather said to have fallen from Sanguinius's wings at the moment of his last breath.

 

The fact that you chose a feather and not some uber-awesome weapon or piece of armour (or in fact any useful piece of equipment) as your Chapter relic really made me happy :)

 

(Though if it turns out that your feather is actually some uber-awesome weapon, I will find you and kill you ;))

 

Oh, and the quote from Captain Demeter is really sweet. Nice touch.

 

Lastly, I'm not particularly keen on the colour scheme, but I guess that you've had enough time to think about yourself to decide what you wanted, so I won't comment any further (unless asked to).

 

Anyway, thanks for posting, nice read and I'll make sure to pop back if you make any changes :)

 

Cheers,

 

Ludo


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#5
Plague Angel

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Feel free to say stuff about the scheme; it's as open to c&c as the rest. I'll try to have a test model up soon since models always look different from web painters.

M40 is a silly goof on my part, thanks for catching that. I've been reading too much 30k and my timeline's out of whack! 400.M41 or so is a more believable date.

The Feather is definitely just a feather and not a euphemism for a power sword or something. :P It's like churches claiming to have bones of saints in my mind. I toyed with the idea of having part of the ritual for becoming Chapter Master be using the Feather as a quill to inscribe an oath of moment before having their armor repainted; I couldn't decide whether that was really, really sacred or if it was just really, really disrespectful, so I left it out.

I originally planned on tying them more closely to the Maelstrom. I'm a big Badab fan, and while I don't want to shove my dudes into the campaign as me-too's, I do want to have an excuse to fight the Red Corsairs a lot. But with Dark Heresy 2nd Edition dropping soon (and I'm pumped), I'm reserving the right to wait and see if the Askellon Sector is interesting.

Edited by Plague Angel, 19 April 2014 - 10:03 AM.


#6
incinerator950

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I'm more curious as to how you made the topic layout.  I'm going to be posting my IT soon and quite frankly don't want it to look like I vomited across the board.  Unless I hit ADB or jeske in the face, but that's different.


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#7
A D-B

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I'm more curious as to how you made the topic layout.  I'm going to be posting my IT soon and quite frankly don't want it to look like I vomited across the board.  Unless I hit ADB or jeske in the face, but that's different.

 

Hey. That's not a nice thing to say.


Note: Everything I say is my own personal opinion as hobbyist, a novelist, and the world's slowest painter. It's not intended to reflect back on Games Workshop in any professional context.

 

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#8
incinerator950

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I'm more curious as to how you made the topic layout.  I'm going to be posting my IT soon and quite frankly don't want it to look like I vomited across the board.  Unless I hit ADB or jeske in the face, but that's different.

 

Hey. That's not a nice thing to say.

 

As a Nurgle follower, it may be taken as a gesture of good will.  In actuality, I was pulling two names from a random pool on the other side of the planet.


Edited by incinerator950, 19 April 2014 - 01:36 PM.

"Yes but the rocket launcher lawnchairs only have 1 beer holder, where as the reg lawnchairs have beer holders on both sides so it's a hard choice."~chillin

#9
Plague Angel

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I'm more curious as to how you made the topic layout.  I'm going to be posting my IT soon and quite frankly don't want it to look like I vomited across the board.  Unless I hit ADB or jeske in the face, but that's different.

 

I leaned heavily on this post. I just made sure I was in BBCode Mode the whole time. And hit Preview a lot.



#10
Welcheren

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Stylistically, this really is well-written and I would like to mirror Brother Ludovic's positive comments.



#11
sitnam

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I like this DIY, and I will mirror other sentiments about the nice formatting. Other then that, I really like the bit about the Death Company. Could make an interesting story point about another BA successor discovering this and the tension that could come from it


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#12
Aqui

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I quite liked it. I certainly agree with Ludo in that the Chapters most sacred relic is an actual feather from the Angels' wings rather than some Uber weapon is a great idea happy.png Whilst you've explained the stigmata as being psychic/otherworldly in manifestation, I'm not quite sold on it. But I dare say that when you add more to the IA (if you intend on adding more), it might sell itself to me over time smile.png

Edited by Aquilanus, 19 April 2014 - 10:54 PM.
Blasted scrapecode messed up the emotes!

In the darkness between the stars, the weak and the faithless find no deliverance. We are raised to believe that the God-Emperor watches over us all. And so we are charged to cleanse the mutant, the heretic and the alien. We must not falter. We are His sword. We are His wrath. Even in the face of death, we shall not submit. Suffering is our prayer. Faith is our armour. In Battle He offers us redemption. And for those who proves their worth, the Emperor sends sends forth His Angels!


#13
Grand Master Aldric

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One thing: May i suggest that instead of the sergeants just having the squad color that all marine were it on both knee pad or both shoulder trims? Just what I think.


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#14
Plague Angel

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Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

 

On the topic of expanding it, I dunno. Maybe. What I have so far just gives a sense of character and how they operate today, it's not a comprehensive history of the chapter's engagements and I don't know that I'm inclined to write one. If there's something people think would specifically add to the picture of the chapter and how they behave, I can see about working it in on future drafts.

 

Speaking of drafts, I tightened it up a tiny bit, mostly just removing excess "however"s here and there.

 

The sergeant iconography mostly came about because of my inconsistent, slow, and overall bad painting. Shoulder pads in squad colors is a thing that was easy to do consistently and quickly in batch painting sessions. I opt against knee pads because not all bits or armor marks actually have distinct knee pads, and just due to how I paint I prefer keeping the trim of the pauldron the same color as the inset. Less frustration that way.



#15
Captain Juan Juarez

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"Though their origins are shrouded in mystery..."

- Why is it a mystery? Does it add anything when you're saying "we don't know but actually it's so obvious..."?

This is a point of style but mystery should serve a purpose, unless the purpose is to not have to get all wordy, then in which case.. whoops.

 

The same can be said of the first paragraph as a whole; what does the mystery give you than not having it would be such a problem?

 

Again, a point of style, but why is there a preference for older equipment? I can understand the universal love of old equipment/new is bad. But why for the Chapter as a whole?

 

The stigmata bit is great but the thing about blood dripping from non-existent wings seems a bit off to me.

 

I quite like the idea of the Death Company running wild and free on a moon when not in battle but then how does the Chapter utilise this resource? Is there something akin to an Easter Egg hunt to round up the Death Company Marines to take them to war? Giant nets and baskets come to mind.

 

Bear in mind these are pretty much points of style and I mention them because they cause me issues when reading. It might just be that I don't know what I'm talking about. Otherwise, is pretty good work.


Edited by Captain Juan Juarez, 22 April 2014 - 08:51 AM.

" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#16
Plague Angel

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Captain Juan Juarez, on 22 Apr 2014 - 01:58, said:
"Though their origins are shrouded in mystery..."
- Why is it a mystery? Does it add anything when you're saying "we don't know but actually it's so obvious..."?
This is a point of style but mystery should serve a purpose, unless the purpose is to not have to get all wordy, then in which case.. whoops.

The same can be said of the first paragraph as a whole; what does the mystery give you than not having it would be such a problem?

Second Founding chapters are an interesting thing in the fluff to me. "First Founding" chapters get all the credit for being participants in the Heresy, and while I'm sure the ones honored enough to keep the original names of the Legions were all highly honored first companies and captains and such, it's always felt weird and kind of arbitrary to me that Second Founding chapters aren't given the same credit, even though all their guys were there too.

So I just imagine Second Founding chapters having a lot of pride in that. Though I'm sure there was a lot of impetus on them to get out there and make sure the names of the Crimson Fists, Angels Sanguine, Sons of Orar, etc. all earned their own honors instead of resting on Legion laurels. Since that's a facet I find so interesting, I knew that if I'm making up my own guys that pride is a thing I want to explore.

But if I just came out and said "this is a Second Founding chapter", everyone could justifiably ask (I kept asking myself) "why hasn't anyone ever heard of them before, then?" Obviously, since I'm making up my own chapter, they're never going to appear in any official lists, but if I just said they were Second Founding, every time GW or FW or FFG released a list of Second Founding chapters, my own suspension of disbelief would be stretched. I want to participate in the setting, not make my own version of it.

But a lot of the things that come with actually being a Second Founding chapter, the veteran status and the long history, weren't necessarily things I felt I needed. The one facet of those chapters I wanted to have was a certain kind of attitude, a certain type of pride. By having the chapter convinced they were Second Founding whether or not they actually are, I get to use that attitude without straining to include all the other things.

It's also a case of external considerations informing the writing. In the many drafts I've done to get the chapter into the shape they are now, I've moved their Founding date around so much that I imagined Imperial scribes throwing their hands up and saying "heck with it, we just don't even know anymore." Cursed Founding was an idea offered up by the very Liber, when I posted an earlier draft years ago.

And this may sound defensive, I guess, but is it really so "obvious" that they really are Second Founding? I don't even know or care whether they actually are. I tried to include evidence specifically pointing to a later date. The first drafts of the IA had them explicitly labeled an Angels Sanguine successor, though the pride they exhibit now means those links aren't in the forefront anymore. Their mutation is much more severe than any of the Second Founding BA chapters, but pretty in line with later Founding ones like the Lamenters and Flesh Eaters. The only evidence they may actually be what they claim is having lots of MkIV armor, and that doesn't bother people like the Red Scorpions. Speaking of...

Captain Juan Juarez, on 22 Apr 2014 - 01:58, said:
Again, a point of style, but why is there a preference for older equipment? I can understand the universal love of old equipment/new is bad. But why for the Chapter as a whole?

That's an easy, but probably unsatisfying answer: I like how MkIV armor looks more. MkVII armor is easily my least favorite.

I know that with the way FW has developed things MkIV is even more associated with the Heresy now than even MkV, but when it comes right down to it, this is a story I'm telling about the models I build, and MkIV bits look coolest to me. If I had my way, every chapter would still be wearing it instead of MkVII.

Captain Juan Juarez, on 22 Apr 2014 - 01:58, said:
The stigmata bit is great but the thing about blood dripping from non-existent wings seems a bit off to me.

In the first few drafts they had "traditional" stigmata, bleeding from their hands and feet. But that kept bugging me, because I kept realizing that the chapter doesn't actually have anything to do with Jesus Christ himself, so why would they have his wounds?

Thematically, I think the Black Rage is already so similar to stigmata anyways, but the image of Astartes bleeding from wounds that weren't their own while under stress was so strong in my mind, it's pretty much the reason I wrote the chapter instead of just playing Angels Sanguine or Lamenters. Since Black Rage is already the same core idea of experiencing your Lord's pain as if it was your own, it felt like a justifiable extension. But again, Sanguinius didn't have nails driven through his feet.

The first thing that comes to mind for Sanguinius, really, is that he had wings. Wings are everywhere in Sanguinian imagery, as ubiquitous as the blood drop. So while Sanguinius didn't have his wings plucked by Horus or anything, I thought that the physical link between the stigmatic and the primarch would be better served by drawing a connection to Sanguinius' wings more than any actual wound.

So it became bleeding shoulder blades.

Captain Juan Juarez, on 22 Apr 2014 - 01:58, said:
I quite like the idea of the Death Company running wild and free on a moon when not in battle but then how does the Chapter utilise this resource? Is there something akin to an Easter Egg hunt to round up the Death Company Marines to take them to war? Giant nets and baskets come to mind.

Heh. That's not so far away from the image I want to convey, actually. Luring the ravenous DC to where you want them to go is sort of like herding animals. For the chapter's perceived claim that it's because the DC are holy and they respect them too much to treat them the way other chapters treat theirs, any possible way to actually use them after the edict requires them to treat the DC with little actual dignity. It's a tension and a hypocrisy I'm okay with, between how the chapter views itself and how they might come across.

I could provide more details about Chaplains being stationed on the moon if that provides a clearer image, but even the nature of the way you imagined it makes me feel like I've succeeded a bit.

Captain Juan Juarez, on 22 Apr 2014 - 01:58, said:
Bear in mind these are pretty much points of style and I mention them because they cause me issues when reading. It might just be that I don't know what I'm talking about. Otherwise, is pretty good work.

I appreciate it, and I hope that my answers to the points you raised don't come across as dismissive! Your insights are valuable.

#17
Captain Juan Juarez

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Well that answers my queries but I'd like to focus now on the following:

 

Second Founding chapters are an interesting thing in the fluff to me. "First Founding" chapters get all the credit for being participants in the Heresy, and while I'm sure the ones honored enough to keep the original names of the Legions were all highly honored first companies and captains and such, it's always felt weird and kind of arbitrary to me that Second Founding chapters aren't given the same credit, even though all their guys were there too.

 

I think that is partly because people always think about a Chapter being so small at the beginning and having to have very humble bginnings. The Second Founding is the only time when new Chapters - as we know them today - came in to being fully-manned overnight.

So I just imagine Second Founding chapters having a lot of pride in that. Though I'm sure there was a lot of impetus on them to get out there and make sure the names of the Crimson Fists, Angels Sanguine, Sons of Orar, etc. all earned their own honors instead of resting on Legion laurels. Since that's a facet I find so interesting, I knew that if I'm making up my own guys that pride is a thing I want to explore.

 

An easy thing to forget, really, that pride has many forms; we always remember that Marines are proud but never really why they are proud.

But if I just came out and said "this is a Second Founding chapter", everyone could justifiably ask (I kept asking myself) "why hasn't anyone ever heard of them before, then?" Obviously, since I'm making up my own chapter, they're never going to appear in any official lists, but if I just said they were Second Founding, every time GW or FW or FFG released a list of Second Founding chapters, my own suspension of disbelief would be stretched. I want to participate in the setting, not make my own version of it.

 

There is a lot of ambiguity when it comes to Second Founding Chapters; if you look at the increase in numbers for Legions at the time of the Heresy then there are hundreds of potential Second Founding Chapters that were never named.

But a lot of the things that come with actually being a Second Founding chapter, the veteran status and the long history, weren't necessarily things I felt I needed. The one facet of those chapters I wanted to have was a certain kind of attitude, a certain type of pride. By having the chapter convinced they were Second Founding whether or not they actually are, I get to use that attitude without straining to include all the other things.


 

Is there some particular reason you didn't want the other things that come with being an older Chapter? Obviously, being an older Chapter with a long history is generally seen as a positive so I'm curious as to why you appear to view it in a different light!
 


" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#18
marine7312000

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As Captain Juan mentioned, I don't see any reason why you can't make this army a second founding. Let's say that the Blood Angels were reduced to only 20,000 after the battle of Terra and the Scouring. That means that there are 19 Second Founding chapters created solely from the Blood Angels alone. A quick look at Lexicanum reveals exactly 20 chapters that claim BA to be descendants. Of those 20, only 6 are listed as second founding. This would mean that there are still 13 chapters that haven't been identified. And this is assuming that only 20k BA exist after the Battle of Terra and the Scouring.


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http://www.bolterand...pany-the-sworn/

The Blood Angels are the Renaissance in power armour, with all of that majesty, splendour, and ingenuity turned anaemic by vampirism... with a mandate to conquer the galaxy on wings of iron and fire. They're paladins with sacred weapons and beauteous facemasks, crying out in inhuman choirs for the taste of their enemies' blood.

JackDaw: ah the Emperors Children are too fancy for beards. The Ninth however, well, beards are sent straight from heaven.


#19
Quozzo

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I was liking the Origins section (at the top as it has no name), but the last paragraph about the curse should really be under another heading as it has no connection to their origins. Then it got all real world religiousy with the stigmata, which as you mentioned has no connection to Sanguinius (and Jesus was nailed through the wrists, not the hands, a common mistake). The part about "psychic wounds open up" was a little confusing as it sounds like only the marine is able to see his own stigmata which would tie to the Black Rage, but then you mention that chainswords are covered in blood before even getting into battle, which suggests that the wounds are physical.

I like the idea of a metal similar to gold but with a blood red sheen, it could be an alloy like rose gold occurring naturally.

Oh and to answer your question about whether it's obvious that the Host Incarnadine are a 2nd founding chapter, the answer is yes. "With their vaunted claims of origin mostly uncorroborated, it has become ever more important to the Host that their recent battles are accurately recorded." If they were a genuine cursed founding chapter, then it would come as no shock to them that no record could be found prior to that date, but trying to rectify that mistake is sure sign of an earlier founding, not least is they too believe they are, not that they tell everyone they are to hide to everyone they are a cursed founding chapter. Just how did they come across a feather off Sang and know it was the genuine article.

 

The feather could work like relics did in Ye Olde BT codex, revealing them made the marines... do something, it's been a while :P

I would also drop the last two categories as this is an IA and not a Codex, maybe add something about seconding marines tot he deathwatch as you have already mentioned the bolters with jump packs in the IA.

As for the colour scheme, I would only colour the trim of the pauldron, similar to the Raven Guard or even Ultramarines, except of course not both pauldrons.

[edit]editor fails again 


Edited by Quozzo, 30 April 2014 - 07:19 PM.


#20
Welcheren

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I quite liked the idea of bleeding shoulder blades. When I read the stigmata reference I immediately wondered how it was going to be Sanguinus-specific. Fine, so the Primarch did not have his wings plucked out, but it is still very possible that he suffered severe wounds around the base/root of his wings. Perhaps records of events aboard the Vengeful Spirit simply overlooked a moment when Horus started pulling at the wings before the Emperor arrived. I'm by no means suggesting that this should be added to the Host's IA; I'm just saying that severe wounds around this area are not improbable.

The mental connection with his scions might enable them to feel this particular wound very keenly, causing the spiritual/physical bleeding over their shoulders. So to me there is no lack of logic to this stigmata effect.

Edited by Welcheren, 01 May 2014 - 09:41 AM.


#21
Plague Angel

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There's ways in which a "new" Second Founding chapter can be justified, sure. But it's as much for my own immersion as anyone else's. Even if you take the stance that all the GW-published lists of the Second Founding are just the most well known Imperial records, that's just another sign of the Host's view of itself not having much external evidence beyond what they say.

There are any number of chapters, official and otherwise, with Founding: Unknown on their records, and those chapters have various responses to that. What I wanted was a chapter with an unknown founding that felt very strongly about their own beliefs on the matter and wouldn't listen to anyone else's opinion on it. Actually being a Second Founding chapter isn't a positive or a negative in my mind, it's simply not what I was writing.

People can interpret the chapter as being truly Second Founding if they wish; I just think it's cool that people think the writing is worth interpreting. Maybe I'll muddy it a bit further in a later draft, but I'm not trying to hint at any sort of truth. Like I said, I don't know if they're correct in believing they're Second Founding or not. I have no opinion on the matter, honestly.

On stigmata, I'll try to say what I can and hopefully not go too far into religious territory.

While it's true that crucifixion, if done with nails, is done through the wrists (out of necessity of supporting the weight), a lot of religious iconography shows the wounds on Christ's palms (out of the specific artistic considerations of iconography). And as often as not, reported cases of stigmata in Christianity have the stigmatic bleeding from their palms. Stigmata is more about identifying and empathizing with an intense experience, not trying to display a factually accurate representation. It's symbolism and communion, not science or history.

 

While there may be explanations for stigmata involving psychosomatic or hypnotic reasons for it (if it's even ever actually happened at all and hasn't been all hoaxes), it's regarded status is that of a miracle. It's a supernatural thing, not solely a natural one.

 

The Black Rage already has a lot of similarities to this: the Astartes loses his own mind and experiences the sensations of Sanguinius on the Vengeful Spirit. But even in this, the most intense identification any Astartes can feel with his Primarch, the actions done by Death Company (notably, that they fight in squads at the orders of chaplains) show that an Astartes in the grip of the Rage doesn't accurately recreate every action, thought, or word of Sanguinius. It isn't about going through motions, it's about making the primarch's pain your own. And too, while there are genetic and hereditary considerations to the Rage, it isn't just a physical thing; it's explicitly a psychic curse, a backlash from Sanguinius's own power, and so it will always be a touch of the Warp on the spirit of the Blood Angels. For the Host, that dual degeneration of both their genetic and spiritual curse reveals itself as a mutation: they bleed. Because their lord bled.

 

Recreating literal wounds isn't what's important. Communing with the Primarch is.

 

Anywho, revision notes:

 

1. Updated the color scheme. It's not actually changed, I just touched up the hexcodes so it'd display better.

 

2. The most minor of minor notes: my Tempestus detachment, the 191st Phiac Panthers are now the 191st Phiac Nagas. This probably won't be the only time I change my mind about that.



#22
TDF

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I enjoyed this IA, I don't have a problem with the way you handled the 2nd Founding.

I recently reread Fear to Tread and this line made me think of your IA:

Spoiler

Perhaps you could do add neck injuries to the stigmata? The afflicted marines could lose their ability to talk, for example.

Of course, as that was a vision we don't know whether it reflects what actually happened to Sanguinius.

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#23
Plague Angel

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A new draft of this particular IA is fairly low priority for me at the moment.

 

However, that doesn't mean I'm not working on building up the chapter's story in... other ways. Me and a friend are working on something together.

 

Here's a hint.

 

10262262_10154225232270707_5409234107555



#24
marine7312000

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Very interesting teaser.


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http://www.bolterand...pany-the-sworn/

The Blood Angels are the Renaissance in power armour, with all of that majesty, splendour, and ingenuity turned anaemic by vampirism... with a mandate to conquer the galaxy on wings of iron and fire. They're paladins with sacred weapons and beauteous facemasks, crying out in inhuman choirs for the taste of their enemies' blood.

JackDaw: ah the Emperors Children are too fancy for beards. The Ninth however, well, beards are sent straight from heaven.