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Dataslate Discussion: Cypher, Lord of the Fallen

Cypher Blood Angels Dataslate

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#1
Jolemai

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There are a number of dataslates available for the Blood Angels to use but to date, there is little discussion into there use and synergy with our forces. The aim of this article is to 1) share and impart our collective knowledge to our fellow captains and 2) to get some discussion going on the lesser-known potential boons to our forces. I want this thread to remain in flux and will happily edit the first post as people reply with their own ideas so we can get the optimal use out of each unit.

Further discussion guides can be found from post #6 onwards on the BA resource thread


sml_gallery_62972_10568_1098.jpg Availability

Cypher's rules are currently compiled as an online dataslate, which can be found in full as an iBook or an eBook. Alternatively, a naughty copy can be googled... ph34r.png The official model is available via GW Online or places like Ebay. To kitbash one, simply use a robed minature with a (preferably ornate) bolt pistol, plasma pistol and sheathed sword. The new DA upgrade sprue works well for this.


sml_gallery_62972_10568_1098.jpg Rules

Single Use

 

Spoiler


Formation

 

Spoiler


sml_gallery_62972_10568_1098.jpg Use

 

Cypher has Faction: Dark Angels or Faction: Chaos Space Marines for the duration of the battle. Whichever you choose, his is considered exempt from the normal restrictions meaning you can take him in either a Baal Strike Force, Combined Arms Detachment and/or a flesh Tearers Strike Force. Basically, you use Faction: Dark Angels if taking him solo (so he can mingle with the rest of your army), Faction: Chaos Space Marines if using the Formation.

 

Using Cypher
 

As per the latest rulebook FAQ (which can be found in the BA-centric FAQ thread), an Independent Character with Infiltrate can only join those models that have Infiltrate during Deployment. An obvious choice here is adding him to a Scout squad which will boost them immensely, be it stopping power, making them Shrouded and giving them Hit and Run (which can be great on Scouts if used correctly). However, we have the potential to really capitalise on this ability thanks to one Relic: the Veritas Vitae The VV gives us an extra role on the Stategic Warlord Trait table. With both rolls on there, we have a one in three chance of rolling the Master of Ambush trait whereby your Warlord and three units gain Infiltrate. Now all of a sudden we have the potential of adding Shrouded and Hit and Run to our Terminators, Death Company, Mephiston, and so on. This has the potential to be exceedingly nasty. Also, these can be put into reserve and subsequently outflanked, so Cypher leading a strong shooty-counter attack squad from the side can look promising.
 
With Fleet, Cypher can make a tag team with Mephiston, DC Tycho or any Independent Character with Quickening active and still make use of it (should you wish). Certainly the Mephiston combo looks promising with T5 base or (potentially) higher should Biomancy be used. On the subject of Quickening, this gives Cypher an INT of 9/10 and 4/5/6 ATK before charging, almost half of which are STR 7 AP 2. That is going to munch through anything and will add much needed AP2 where needed.
 
Whilst we can't join a squad at the start, remember that he can subsequently join up with others later on. Again, here he can tank for pretty much anything and the four shots (in the shooting phase and his 3/4 in combat) can do damage. As an Independent Character, he can form a mini team with the Sanguinor and thusly convey across the aforementioned buffs and will himself collect Fearless should it be needed...
 
Another useful option for Cypher is for him to man a battlefield debris weapon. With his high BS he will give any quad gun/icarus lascannon re-rolls to hit and he will ensure that things like the macro cannon will have a very minor scatter. Situational, but potentially useful all the same.
 
Using the formation
 
Firstly, as the formation using Chosen to represent the Fallen, these are ally level Come the Apocalypse and thus, the units in this formation must remain more than 6" away from the rest of your army at all times. Fortunately, every model belonging to the formation has Infiltrate so this shouldn't be too much of a problem. This also means that they wont be able to use any of our transports.
 
As a general rule, Chaos doesn't like the current Chosen ruleset. However, these "counts-as" Chosen have Leadership 10 if near Cypher (which they will be), And They Shall Know No Fear and less Chaosy toys, so how can and why should we use them? First, lets compare them to Sternguard. The base cost is cheaper and whilst they lack grav options, a heavy flamer and special issue ammunition, they have more options to take special weapons. As an example, for 140 points you can have a Champion with combi-melta and four Chosen with melta guns begin the game 18" away from a prime target. 28 points will increase that number of regular melta guns to five. This. Has. Potential. Alternatively, you can Outflank this or a plasma version (which better compliments Cypher) for further fun. As the formation can take three units, that's a Titan-killing amount of melta weaponry. The best part is that even with the melta gun, the Chosen retain their bolt pistol and close combat weapon meaning that's three ATK base and four on the charge should you need it. Better yet, start them in a no-mans land Fortification with an Escape Hatch. This will boost them a further 12" on the first turn which again has a huge amount of potential.
 
Speaking of combat, you could keep them cheap and throw in the odd upgrade. This is an assault unit that starts 18" away (good), with a power first, etc, that can't be singled out (good), but is a tad pricey (bad). With the same stats as Vanguard and similar cost, they lack the obvious durability (storm shields) and mobility (jump packs) afforded by them. Still, they do have Cypher to tip the balance. That said, whilst a combat option is possible, Blood Angels are not really lacking in combat options.
 
Of the options, an Icon of Vengeance would give the unit Fearless which isn't strictly necessary given they have access to And They Shall Know No Fear and that we have no means of using this unit as a road block. With the unit Champion having to issue a challenge, a power sword/lightning claw may be a decent upgrade, but only if you have the points to spare. Same goes for melta bombs. The heavy weapons don't really make use of the veteran statline, but there is always a niche for what is essentially a squad of infiltrating heavy weapon. However, this then becomes an expensive Tactical/Scout squad so it's not going to be seen often.
 

sml_gallery_62972_10568_1098.jpg Summary

 
So there you have it. Be it Cypher alone or Cypher with friends, he offers a unique way to augment our forces and offers some interesting modelling opportunities. However, this post isn't the be all and end all of the discussion: how do you use your Cypher? Post below so it can be added to this post and the discussion can remain fluid and this post in flux.
 
Finally, I should also point out that Cypher is an excellent second vow for the ETL: just make a bolt pistol and plasma pistol gunslinger from your bits box, give him a sword and there you go!
 
Thanks for reading.


Edited by Jolemai, 13 October 2015 - 01:26 PM.

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#2
Demoulius

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What the? Cypher is a traitor, a fallen angel. Can we even take him in our (battleforged) armies without resorting to taking desperate allies?


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#3
Jolemai

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What the? Cypher is a traitor, a fallen angel. Can we even take him in our (battleforged) armies without resorting to taking desperate allies?

 

Cypher is merely misunderstood.

 

Also:

 

Cypher can be selected as part of a primary detachment from the following codexes: Codex: Adepta Sororitas, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Codex: Grey Knights, Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Inquisition, Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Space Wolves. Cypher does not take up any slots from the detachment’s Force Organisation chart. He may not be included in an army that includes any models from Codex: Dark Angels.

 

This is all it says on the matter in the dataslate. The floor is open to anyone who wishes to speculate :)


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#4
Reclusiarch Krieg

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Yes, he's available to all loyalists as himself alone (aside from Dark Angels) and to CSM, as himself or as the Cypher + 2 squads of troops Chosen formation.


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Yeah, I intend to convert a Canonness and have her run with Cypher rules among my Sisters! :P



#5
Valkyrion

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What the? Cypher is a traitor, a fallen angel. Can we even take him in our (battleforged) armies without resorting to taking desperate allies?

 

Yep. It's one of those morally grey areas, like fancying Sarah Palin. There's nothing illegal about it, but it still makes you a bit uncomfortable.



#6
thepowerofwar

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He was a old chaos HQ that they made in to a data slate that everyone can use as far as I understand but I just cant see me using chaos with my BA.



#7
Sanguine_Blood

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I've used Cypher a couple times so far. My Opinion is that he is very good, but, for 190pts I would almost rather include just regular options from our codex as opposed to him.

My meta (and there is a lot of speculation on this) allows for him to confer his infiltrate to units he joins, and allows for infiltration deployment.

 

When I brought Cypher, I had joined him to the Death Company. A squad of 8, plus reclusiarch, plus Cypher, all with bolters, a PF and a TH made for a VERY frightening squad. It basically made my opponents have to deal with them, as when they get into CC they just massacre anything they touch. Helps take the pressure off of your other units.

But, this was a VERY costly unit, ringing in at over 500 points, and having no transport (they didn't really need it being able to deploy so far up field). So really only viable in larger point games (I had played an 1500 and 1750 with him, and I argue that its still too low points for this combo).

Also, with the heavy availability of ignore cover weapons, shrouded is very situational.

In both games I never got to use the hit and run as the unit destroyed everything they managed to touch.

 

Now in 7e, being able to join Cypher to Mephiston is... scary.... scary scary scary.

I think I am going to try doing this actually... An infiltrating Mephiston with shrouded and hit and run... YIKES.



#8
Shaezus

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Not meaning to be a party pooper but you still can't charge in turn 1 with a unit that infiltrated. Takes a lot of the cypher-mephy potential away, but then again he still has shrouded and if you can find a spot out of LOS and so only 12" from the enemy, then rest assured you've got him dancing to your tune straight away. And considering cypher is cheaper than a raven or landraider..

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#9
Sanguine_Blood

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Not meaning to be a party pooper but you still can't charge in turn 1 with a unit that infiltrated. Takes a lot of the cypher-mephy potential away, but then again he still has shrouded and if you can find a spot out of LOS and so only 12" from the enemy, then rest assured you've got him dancing to your tune straight away. And considering cypher is cheaper than a raven or landraider..

True. But you can still move up and shoot. If Meph gets some shooty Psy powers he can use those in conjunction with his master-crafted plasma pistol, plus cypher can rain death with his awesome shooting.

 

And the unit will be hard as rocks too, as you would use Meph's toughness to determine what is needed to wound the cypher/meph unit (either 6 or 9 depending Iron Arm). It's a unit that's in their face and MUST BE DEALT WITH, but it's so hard to deal with as they have shrouded to give better saves *evil laugh*. And also because Cypher is EW, you can actually have him take a wound that would somehow be considered Instant Death to Mephiston (force weapons come to mind).

 

I mean, if I am wrong somewhere please correct me, but seems like a pretty OP unit....



#10
Jolemai

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From the BRB:

 

Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last after all units (friend or foe) have been deployed. <snip> Infiltrators can be set up anywhere on the table that is more than 12" from any enemy unit so long as no deployed enemy unit can draw line of sight to them. This includes in a building as long as the building is more than 12" away. Alternatively, they can be set up anywhere on the table more than 18" away from any enemy unit, even in plain sight.

If a unit with infiltrate deploys inside a Dedicated Transport, they may infiltrate along with their transport.

A unit that deploys using these rules can not charge in their first turn.

Having infiltrators also confers the Outflank special rule to units of infiltrators that are kept as reserves.

 

This means that:

  1. We can infiltrate Mephiston!

  2. We can infiltrate any unit in a Land Raider! (Looking at you Death Company!)

  3. We can infiltrate Terminators!

  4. We can Outflank something quick and unusual (Flamerback perhaps?)


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#11
Jolemai

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He was a old chaos HQ that they made in to a data slate that everyone can use as far as I understand but I just cant see me using chaos with my BA.

 

I can certainly understand and appreciate this viewpoint. It is, of course, your game and you should do what makes you happy.

 

However, if I may, what is stopping you from knocking together a Bolt and Plasma pistol-wielding gunslinger in BA colours? Then you have something that fits your force, uses the fluff you give it and simply uses Cypher's rules. If you face Dark Angels using your BA gunslinger, then the DAs, being a thoroughly skeptical and suspicious bunch and well known for attack their allies should someone sneeze the wrong way, simply want to "ask him a few questions as his skills look familiar".

 

In today's fluff, Cypher does not serve Chaos. Chaos is a means to an end; something he uses to get the job done. Who knows what his true goal is or which patron is watching over him. It may well be the Emperor himself.


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#12
knife&fork

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This means that:

  1. We can infiltrate Mephiston!
  2.  

 

No thanks. Having Mepiston start on the board 'out in the open' for every rending, melta, grav, blade storm, poison, distort, plasma or lance shot to potentially hit him on turn one is not something I would consider a perk.

 

Having a very capable EW character team up with him for close combat on the other hand is very interesting!


Edited by knife&fork, 20 June 2014 - 08:54 AM.

24 years of Blood Angels

#13
Jolemai

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With Shrouded, we're looking at a T6 (maybe T9) unit with up to a 2+ cover save and a 3W EW "bodyguard". Infiltrate shouldn't be dismissed outright as the option is still valid even if it's situational.

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#14
Jolemai

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This means that:

  • We can infiltrate Terminators!

Lets explore this one. Hammernators usually require a ride to get into combat. Well now, we can infiltrate this unit up and give it some shooting capability. Now if we throw in a Priest (in PA or TDA) it becomes really survivable. Alternatively, we can throw in Corbulo to tank stuff and a really hard to shift unit. With Shrouded and Hit and Run 0.o

Edited by Jolemai, 20 June 2014 - 10:46 AM.

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#15
eurieus

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He was a old chaos HQ that they made in to a data slate that everyone can use as far as I understand but I just cant see me using chaos with my BA.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think most people in the imperium ( well, everyone except the unforgiven ) have no clue who is Cypher and what he has done and the other fallen... 

He has helped imperial armys, including Astartes i think, on numerous occasion, so why not ? I hear he can be very persuasive... :) 



#16
Memento Of Prospero

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I don't you can give infiltrate to a unit with characters. They have to join the unit at deployment, are are not per say with the unit when infiltrators are set aside. Not too sure about this. Shrike has an different wording which allows it due to the ambiguous nature of the wording.

 

Could be wrong though.

 

Even then, a White Scar captain/master is much better than Cypher in most cases.


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#17
Gondow

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In 6th atleast, you could charge from Infiltrate Turn 1.
IF you went second. It was very clear in the FAQ.



#18
Shaezus

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Been reading this thread and contemplating..in my pod army with 4 dreads landing on turn 1, cypher might be a good bet. Swap him for the redeemer and infiltrate mephy, cypher and corbs into cover.

Big prioritisation headache for the enemy; it will take a LOT of firepower to even put 1 wound on that unit, but if he ignores them he is going to get whacked on turn 2. Hmm.. :)

Edited by Shaezus, 22 June 2014 - 09:32 AM.

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#19
Memento Of Prospero

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Been reading this thread and contemplating..in my pod army with 4 dreads landing on turn 1, cypher might be a good bet. Swap him for the redeemer and infiltrate mephy, cypher and corbs into cover.

Big prioritisation headache for the enemy; it will take a LOT of firepower to even put 1 wound on that unit, but if he ignores them he is going to get whacked on turn 2. Hmm.. smile.png

 

Being a 3 model kills your average thoughness... bad idea.


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#20
Shaezus

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Yeah there's that :/ Would take corbs out but...it would feel like a part of me is missing! Still got a few weeks till list submission so I'll see what I could do with the saved points. Cheers.

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#21
Jolemai

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Even then, a White Scar captain/master is much better than Cypher in most cases.


Pros:

  • Cheaper barebones
  • More customisable
  • Unlocks options not available to Blood Angels

Cons:

  • 2x troop choice tax
  • White Scars' Hit and Run Chapter Train doesn't spread to Terminators
  • No Shrouded, Infiltrate
  • Lesser shooting output
  • Lesser stats

In my opinion, it depends what you are trying to build. I can see some instances where using a Whist Scars' Captain/Chapter Master may be of use but I feel that on the whole, Cypher is better for us in most cases.

 

With Infiltrate, there's this little tidbit in the IC section:

An IC without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of infiltrators during deployment

 

Why? Because the IC will have been deployed (either on the board or in reserve) before the Infiltrators deploy. However, it doesn't mention the reverse.

 

Next:

 

An IC can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by informing your opponent which unit it has joined.

 

This allows an IC to join a unit during the Deployment phase.

 

As quoted above:

 

Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last after all units (friend or foe) have been deployed...

 

So, this unit (Cypher plus whatever) now has Infiltrate and thus, deploys last.

 

No?


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#22
Shaezus

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I agree with your interpretation, Jolemai.

That last quote is the key: deployment phase starts, you declare cypher is joining mephy. Rest of army deploys. Cypher and mephy then deploy last or after opponent has deployed. It's pretty clear.

Not sure if cypher is better for my list. Firstly, and as you have mentioned, the unit will hack through many units in one round of assault, making hit and run useless. Even if they don't, I would prefer to keep them locked in assault and protected from shooting.

Then there's infiltrate, again as you say situational. Depending on terrain setup too, as you may be forced to deploy 18" away and end up in the open after turn 1 move in order to get close enough to assault next turn.

Taking meph with corbulo in a raider just suits me better, it may divert AT fire from my drop dreads and meph is guaranteed protection until he assaults.

Just my twopence, but it's clear to see that cypher will bring a big edge to some lists. :)

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#23
Jolemai

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The thing is, where do you get the Land Raider from? The only transport that our ICs can start in (outside of Forgeworld) is the Stormraven.


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#24
Memento Of Prospero

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That's why you get a spartan


The artist formerly known as Wolf_Pack


#25
Jolemai

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Indeed :D

 

Overkill though...


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