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Militia and Cults tactica


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#1
disease

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Coudn't see a thread started, but given the sheer customisation options presented it would be rude not to have a collective area for Militia and Cults combinations.

Ultramarine Suzerains have a 12" +1 leadership bubble which can help mitigate the generally poor leadership of M+C units whilst providing a powerful assault unit.

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#2
norngahl

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Problem with allies is that you can only take 2 troops.. so 2x50 levys at best. I'd rather like 5x20..

I like the tainted flesh and cult horde combo.. cheap upgrades that give you zealot, fnp 6+ and rending.. okay you got to charge if possible, but hey, I want to do this anyway.. eat marines and termis in cc.. jay.. but pray you don't face volkite charger support squads or HSS with culverins. If so, you are pretty :cuss. Tainted Weapon with rending is a nice suprise as well..

I like the possibility to take a rough psyker.. I mean.. rather cheap lvl2, demon summoning psyker, that transforms into a better fighter- whats not to love? :D

Edited by Flint13, 25 September 2015 - 10:34 AM.
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#3
Terminus

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He said combined arms detachments, not allies.



#4
norngahl

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You are right. 300 Cult-tainted Levys.. prepare yourself :D

#5
TemujinZero

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My 10 man BS5 Volkite Culverin Squad with preferred enemy (everything) is ready.  CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!


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#6
norngahl

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In smaller point games you'll be pretty annoyed by overkilling a 20 men squad worth 40 points.. ;) 6x20 levys is 240 points.. you'll kill at best 3 squads and then get rended to death by 60 little spooky kids :D

Question. The quad mortars get no shatter shells but still cost 60 points while beeing BS3.. is that a typo?

#7
Caillum

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I hope it's a typo!

I've considered "Survivors of the Dark Age" and "Cyber-augmetics" to represent Skitarii, ising the newish plastic models.

- Tech-Priest Dominus as your Force Commander,
- Skitarii Vanguard as Grenadiers,
- Ironstrider Ballistarii as Sentinels,
- Onager Dunecrawlers as Leman Russes,
- Kataphron Destroyers as Militia Fire Teams, and
- Sicarian Ruststalkers as Ogryn Brute Squads.

You can take Land Raider Proteus DT's for your Grenadiers if you want. I'd take 20-man Grenadiers with 2 plasma guns, laslocks & Advanced Weapons, plus a Medic. They'll have a 3+/6++ and 5+ FNP, which is pretty decent for 180 points.

Then take Planetary Overlord so you can choose "Merchant Princeling" for your Warlord Trait, giving a Fire Team +1AP on their weapons! AP3 heavy bolters, AP2 Krak missiles or AP1 lascannon! :)
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#8
TemujinZero

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In smaller point games you'll be pretty annoyed by overkilling a 20 men squad worth 40 points.. ;) 6x20 levys is 240 points.. you'll kill at best 3 squads and then get rended to death by 60 little spooky kids :D


Overkill is putting it mildly. My volkite squad deals an average of 69.32 wounds on GEQ out of cover. Might be a good idea to split them into two squads.

I doubt that there are many 30K lists out there that are ready to deal with a hundred fearless cultists.

#9
norngahl

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It will tie up the enemy and force him to direct fire onto worthless units, which otherwise will force them into CC, shutting down shooting and moving and will deal a casuality or two.. at this point your CC units charge whatever they want.

Natural counters are volkite and pride of the legion from a blob, to a lesser extend thudd guns, fire raptors, sicarans, kheres mortis and screaming little WE blobs. I won't mention the dakka options no one takes anyway.

Beside the legion blob, all other mentioned units are rather secondary choices, as it seems to be all about plasma deredeos for deepstrike defense, spartans for hammer delivery, grav for anti spartan and typhons for bombing anything.

#10
Lockark

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To me I always thought abhumans and tainted flesh for a beast men army stood out. You are already going after sm, so the t4 is a useful.
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#11
disease

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Tech priests with plasma servitors looks rather strong ?
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#12
defl0

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I think you pretty much go one of two ways. HTH or shooty as hell. (or a mix of both). In any case you are talking mass infantry. 

 

Fire support squads let you bring huge amounts of hvy weapons. Think 40 lascannons or 30 with 3 levy and give them all rending. 

 

Or you go with 30 rending fearless mooks and take knights as allies. 

 

At bigger point levels you can go 9 quad motars and tons of lascannons or ally with daemons and summoning on top of mass lascannons. 

 

The tanks in this list don't really excite me and there is no real way to get melta bombs in mass, so i think you have to go heavy on tank hunting weapons to have any success. 

 

Yeah, and s shout out to tech priests, they have a couple interesting builds as well.


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#13
Ishagu

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Yeah, the fearless Cultist spam would be effective. Wish the Loyalists could get them...

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#14
disease

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Leman Russ are very very cheap- 30 /40 points cheaper than solar Auxillia equivelent (less special rules)

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#15
Sanct

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Yeah, the fearless Cultist spam would be effective. 

 

If you can get enough in a position to fight.  They seem great but it's not easy getting enough into 2" swinging range on the charge and if your astartes opponent has a dedicated volkite,  flamer or even a rotor squad they ain't doing jack.



#16
TemujinZero

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With fearless you can just take large numbers of moderately sized units and this will overwhelm even dedicated anti horde options for a tiny fraction of their cost. Mobility is certainly a weakness with this sort of build, but I wouldn't worry about getting shot off the board.

#17
Flint13

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Yeah, as many casualties as something like a heavy squad with culverins would cause, they're also 335pts.

That's 167 cultists, of which you have to kill absolutely 100% of them to remove as a threat. And when is the last time you saw a super dedicated anti-horde force in a legion list? Space marine legions typically aren't packing that sort of firepower. Most are TAC lists geared towards threats from other legions.
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#18
helterskelter

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So what would a horde list look like and for how many points? There are enough weapons in a marines arsenal that could probably see off a horde list pretty sharpish point for point. And have the potential for out ranging a hordes guns. Or you could be salamanders and burn them out of existence. Need a full example so I could better throw up a reasonable example of versus scenario. Generally you are playing vs. Known opponent too so it wouldn't be a stretch to alter a list to deal with hordes
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#19
TemujinZero

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There are enough weapons in a marines arsenal that could probably see off a horde list pretty sharpish point for point.


No chance of doing it point for point. List tailoring is a lazy way of taking on anything, and even that won't wipe a horde cult point for point. It will make for an interesting challenge though.

Force Commander, Cult Horde, Tainted Flesh
6*20 Inducted Levy
360 points

6 squads, 121 models, all have: fearless, hatred, rending in combat, fnp(6+).

Show us 360 points of marines that can kill all that over 6 turns without getting eaten.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that marines can win against this sort of list in a full game. I just don't think they can kill this horde under point for point restrictions.

#20
helterskelter

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Depending on the range of horde guns and ideal conditions, rotor cannon support squad full ten. Not sure how much that is but assuming you get to stand still 1st turn is 40 shots, then manoeuvres to stay out the way 30 shots per turn. Could do it in 4 maybe 5 only under most ideal circumstances. Preferably I'd add either a divination libby or Mos to that squad. But for the 360 points you couldn't have that character bump so ill yield it could be a bit of a challenge but doable
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#21
Flint13

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But that's the thing... *no one* takes rotor cannons. Plenty of bros take volkites, sure, but they are going to be aimed at nastier things, or waaaay overkilling small squads which they greatly out cost. Squads that have to be killed down to the last model to be removed as a useful tool to their controlling player.

My C&M list is even a step beyond what Temujin outlines above. I use 6 squads of 30. The look on even an eldar players face as they scramble to kill that many bodies is pretty priceless.

Under a full game, taking into account objectives, mission parameters and the like, sure that can be beaten by a legion list, but it's going to be an absolute bear to try an chew through so many bodies. A big point to remember as well, whatever my opponent is firing at my cultists, he isn't firing at my Word Bearer allies. At 2500 I have two minimal tactical squads in rhinos that can motor around relatively unmolested and nab objectives or harass stuff.
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#22
Brofist

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A pair of bombards or 3-6 thudd guns would certainly hurt. 3-4 destructors with culvrins would erase a unit each turn. None of these are bad not to take for other reasons, but its easy to see it'll cost more for the value. On the flip side, you'll be able to do more with them.

 

This said I do agree- fearless levys are a really solid choice and outside a few types of lists could shake up a meta that's focused on cutting down MEQ. I never really thought about it before and you guys rock for finding such an interesting combination.


Edited by Bulbafist, 14 October 2015 - 09:40 AM.

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#23
helterskelter

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I think there are a few legions that could really make a mess without too much faffing, if any. Night Lords, bolter heavy imperial fists, flamer heavy salamanders and death guard. All have the ability to quite happily munch through masses of troops and still deal with other threats
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#24
TemujinZero

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Depending on the range of horde guns and ideal conditions, rotor cannon support squad full ten. Not sure how much that is but assuming you get to stand still 1st turn is 40 shots, then manoeuvres to stay out the way 30 shots per turn. Could do it in 4 maybe 5 only under most ideal circumstances. Preferably I'd add either a divination libby or Mos to that squad. But for the 360 points you couldn't have that character bump so ill yield it could be a bit of a challenge but doable

 

How can you shoot 6 units off the table in 4 or 5 turns with a single unit?  It is possible to wipe a unit per turn within those points (certainly not with rotor cannons), but you'll never stay out of combat for more than 3 turns at best, and once caught you'll never fire another shot.

 

This is how your unit fares, being optimistic:

 

1st turn:  40 shots, 27 hits, 13 wounds, 11 fail FNP - horde down to 110/121 (22 points of damage)

 

2nd turn:  30 shots, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 8 fail FNP - horde down to 102/121 (38 points of damage)

 

3rd turn:  (assuming you avoided combat) 30 shots, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 8 fail FNP - horde down to 94/121 (54 points of damage)

 

4th turn:  With 6 units chasing you, there's no way you'll stay out of combat this long.  A ten man support squad will take about 1000 turns to kill 94 fearless cultists, and with their rending attacks, you'll be very lucky to survive a turn.

 

Final tally - Support squad eaten, horde loses roughly 30 men (60 points).  I completely ignored the horde's shooting attacks since they only get snap shots, but 121 s3 snap shots at 18" is not so different to your squads output on the move.


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#25
Flint13

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^Haha slight exaggeration at 1000 turns of shooting, but I'll back up Temujin's other points.

If you don't concentrate on the cultists, then they'll get to combat with enough to do damage. If you do, chances are you'll have to give up shooting at more valuable units like enemy marines or some such, which is also a win C&M player.
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