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Returning to Guard after 15+ years


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#1
Thoridon

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To avoid a long story, I played many years ago in the 2nd edition with a mixed set of Imperial forces, mainly Blood Angels with some Imperial Guard. After a long layoff without any collecting, painting or playing I got back into things last year and dug out all the boxes. Unfortunately some bits and pieces seem to have been lost but the majority of my old collection remained intact and can be seen here:

MuyJtiA.jpg

You can see my old Guard in the middle there, with some Sisters to one side and Blood Angels to the other. After returning I focused on my Blood Angels first, as they were my first models back in the 90s and my 'primary' force, but having spent the past year getting some new painting done on those and playing a few games I figured it's time to get my Guard in order and updated. I like to collect and play the different factions so one game I might use pure BA, the next game pure Guard and combine them together as allies for another. With a decent collection I can mix things up depending on what's pulling my attention at any particular point!

Anyhow, I'm looking at getting my Guard into fighting shape so they could operate effectively both alone or allied with Marines/Sisters. From my old models I have:

Old / Existing Models
2x Praetorian Infantry Squads (Melta, Grenade and Flamer specials)
3x Praetorian Heavy Weapon Teams (missing some weapons, but could field 3 lascannons / 2 Mortars / 1 Heavy Bolter / 1 Autocannon)
Praetorian Officer with Combat Weapon and Bolt Pistol (old metal Lieutenant model)

5x Catachan Infantry Squads plus a few spare bodies (7 Flamers total)
3x Catachan Heavy Weapons Teams ((missing some weapons, but could field 3 lascannons / 2 Mortars / 1 Heavy Bolter)
3 Catachan Snipers (old metal models, inc. 1 lying prone)
Catachan Officer with Bolter (old metal Lieutenant model)
Catachan Officer with Power Fist and Bolter (old metal Captain model)

1x Valhallan Infantry Squad (old metal models inc. 1 Flamer, 1 Melta)

Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers (old metal models, mix of weapons)

5 Rough Riders (old metal models)

4 old plastic Stormtroopers

Commisar Yarrick
Nork Deddog

2 'Catachan' Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers
1 very old metal 'Cadian' Scout Sentinel with what looks like Assault Cannon (no longer a valid option)

Leman Russ Demolisher (did have 2 multi-melta sponsons, now removed)
Leman Russ Battle Tank (heavy bolter sponsons)
Chimera
Basilisk

Lightning Strike Fighter

To add to that I recently bought the following while they were 30% discounted:

Cadian Defence Force
Start Collecting Astra Militarum
Start Collecting Militarum Tempestus

Having looked through the latest codex and playing around in Battlescribe it seems most of my old stuff is still usable, though some things not too efficient. I took the sponsons off my Demolisher after using it in a friendly game and realising the meltas never succeeded when the ordnance weapon was fired, and intend to do the same with the battle tank. In the same vein my old metal squads have their fixed specials, which isn't a major issue as I can spread them out. I figure the Valhallans as a lone squad with 2 specials would make an ideal veteran squad while the rest of my infantry can be in regular platoons. I'd also plan to use the new Cadians as another platoon, so I can really put a lot of bodies down on the ground if I want. There are other issues with specific models (such as the Catachan captain with power fist that seems very points-inefficient) but I can find replacements for those or simply not use them. Schaeffer's Last Chancer's might actually just fit as a veteran squad with all their different weapons but they'd have a wide mix of every weapon type!

Questions
I just have a few questions while I'm planning things:

1. What's better for Platoons, maxing out the 5 squads or using the minimum 2 squads and then using extra as a new platoon to get an extra platoon command squad for issuing orders?
2. Can you run more than 1 Company Command Squad in the same detachment (if it has more than 1 HQ slot like a CAD) or are you limited to 1 per detachment for those?
3. Are sponsons on Leman Russ with ordnance weapons as bad a use of points as I thought after reading the new rules or should I consider sticking the sponsons back on?
4. Heavy Weapon Squads attached to Platoons seem to be seen as bad. As I have quite a few teams (as in the pair of men) but missing many weapons, is it worth me finding replacement weapons to rebuild those teams or am I better off focusing on more tanks for the heavy support?

Current Plans / Thoughts
I'm most likely to only be playing friendly games, no tournaments, and fun / fluff / theme are as important as actually winning! When using my Guard as the main force I was thinking the following:

-Separate Praetorian, Catachan and Cadian platoons as regular ground infantry to form the front line. Each slightly differently themed, so the Catachans have a full focus on flamers for wall of death when charged while the Cadians would be full grenade launchers to add extra strength shots. Praetorians obviously locked into what the metal models have, a little of each. I'd be looking at lots of bodies on the ground here.
-Company and Platoon command squads would be cheaply geared, sitting behind the lines to issue orders.
-A Heavy Weapons Squad different for each platoon to add support. I was thinking Autocannons for the Praetorians (have 1 already in metal and could add 2 more), Lascannons for the Cadians (using the old metal weapons) and find an extra Mortar to give those to the Catachans.
-Valhallan squad, Scions and (if fitting into the rules) Schaeffer's unit as the Veteran/Elite units with transports (Chimeras and Taurox) for mobile options to reach specific points.
-Existing Demolisher and Battle Tank to provide ordnance blasts (no sponsons), 2 new Leman Russ to be built as Exterminators for the 4 twin-linked S7 shots and added Sponsons of some variety as they could use them better. The tanks would be able to put shots into tougher targets, plus the non-mortar heavy weapon squads.
-The pair of Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers to target infantry squads approaching or breaking through the front line.

My games will likely mostly be against Tyranids and Genestealer Cult so I need a mix of anti-infantry, anti-MC (6T 3+ save) and some things able to hurt a gargantuan creature with 8T 3+ when I face things like Hierodule or Harridan.

I know I will be needing to add anti-flyer, as that never really existed when I played before and had just started coming in when I stopped before(I have a very early Lightning Fighter still unbuilt).

Anyhow, I have a LOT of painting to do as many of my old models were either A) only primed or cool.png painted badly in my youth so I'll probably end up turning this into a WIP painting/collecting thread but for now I'm trying to get some sort of structure in place with all the old (and new) models to help plan ahead and see what gaps I need to fill so any advice is welcome!

Edited by Thoridon, 01 February 2017 - 03:38 PM.

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#2
WarriorFish

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Welcome back soldier thumbsup.gif A fine collection of models you have too biggrin.png In answer to your questions:

 

1. What's better for Platoons, maxing out the 5 squads or using the minimum 2 squads and then using extra as a new platoon to get an extra platoon command squad for issuing orders?

If you want to go infantry heavy, probably better to take two Platoons so you can get extra orders from the additional PCS. If you want more troops you can add infantry squads - this would also fill your minimum Troop choices for a CAD.

 

2. Can you run more than 1 Command Squad in the same detachment (if it has more than 1 HQ slot like a CAD) or are you limited to 1 per detachment for those?

No limits, so you can run two CCSs - only one commander can be your Warlord though.

 

3. Are sponsons on Leman Russ with ordnance weapons as bad a use of points as I thought after reading the new rules or should I consider sticking the sponsons back on?

It's relative - see this tactica for a bit more - but the points are of less use than a non-ordnance Russ, but can still be useful backups etc. When in doubt a Russ is capable enough without sponsons thumbsup.gif

 

4. Heavy Weapon Squads attached to Platoons seem to be seen as bad. As I have quite a few teams (as in the pair of men) but missing many weapons, is it worth me finding replacement weapons to rebuild those teams or am I better off focusing on more tanks for the heavy support?

You can run lists without HWSs, or HWTs - I often do. The HWTs would be ok placed in infantry squads though, since you plan to run quite a few this may be a good idea especially as with many squads there won't be room for them all to advance!

 

 

There is much to cover so this is only a short post, but against 'nids you can do a few builds/options to help you out. Wyverns to shred their hordes with some Hellhound and Eradicator support for example will turn them into mincemeat letting you focus on tackling the bigger bugs! Looking forward to seeing more from your army biggrin.png


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#3
Thoridon

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Thanks for the quick response smile.png

I am leaning towards each Platoon being the minimum 2 squads, as if I had 4 squads (for example) it seems to make more sense to run them as 2 separate platoons of 2 and get 2 PCS for the extra orders than to run as a single platoon of 4 with only 1 order. Plus spreading them out over smaller platoons means I could run extra CADs (or other detachments) to open up more Heavy slots for tanks and HQ slots for company command squad orders.

Good to know with the company command squad. For some reason it felt wrong to run more than 1 per detachment, but if it's perfectly fine I'll most likely run as many as I can! If I'm going infantry-heavy the running theme seems to be orders, orders, orders...

Useful Russ info in that link, thanks. I think in my case I'll proceed with no sponsons on my Battle Tank / Demolisher. Generally if they get attacked it's by nasty bugs with crushing claws for armourbane, in which case being desroyed and/or exploding has felt more likely than a disabled weapon. I think I'll save the points on those to focus on their ordnance, put sponsons on the Russ variants that can use them normally and try to be a bit more efficient that way.

The HWTs would certainly be optional, especially as I'd have to go out of my way to put them together. I had intended to use them as separate HW squads if I did use them, so guardsmen could focus lasgun fire on targets where a lascannon would be wasted, but then I guess if I was planning to play a static gun line a HW squad could end up being LoS blocked by my own infantry (while a Russ could presumably shoot over them). If I put a HW team inside the infantry squad itself I'd be mixing different weapons so someone would be shooting at a less than ideal target but at least LoS from my own men wouldn't be a big problem and the heavy team could sit at the back of the squad for protection. I suppose if I get the heavy weapons teams built up it gives me the options - leave on the bench, run as separate squads or take a single team in infantry squads.

My overall 'theme' with the Guard is to remain with mostly basic units. My Blood Angels have special characters and wargear upgrades coming out of their ears so I'm focusing in the other direction with the Guard. Lots of infantry, lots of officers for orders and tanks for the heavy support. One reason why I like the Catachans all having flamers, as well as being theme-ish it keeps them cheap.

Edited by Thoridon, 01 February 2017 - 04:18 PM.

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#4
WarriorFish

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Sounds like a good plan to me :tu: I like my infantry squads cheap - a flamer or grenade launcher don't break the bank and offer some useful shooting. Several of them on the table do well covering your other units and tackling infantry. For a HWT infantry squad the other squad members are there to keep the heavy weapon safe and shooting rather than doing much killing of their own ;)


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#5
Thoridon

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That's true smile.png It's why I have grenade launchers penciled in for all the new Cadians, they're cheap and cheerful. If I could I'd ditch the meltas on my old metal models, they're just so expensive for 1 shot at BS3 on a model that will die if anything sneezes in the wrong direction tongue.png I can see their use in small 'elite' squads at BS4 when anti-vehicle is needed but at the moment they're just costing me points! I might have to model a little something to convert them into flamers or grenade launchers.

It's the same reason why I'm a bit reluctant to actually use the lascannons in heavy teams - a single S9 shot can easily be wasted on a model with BS3. It's bad enough when my Marines miss with theirs, here it would happen even more often. I did some quick calculations and autocannons seem the most points-efficient out of all the options for heavy weapons teams, having enough shots to help counter the lower BS and enough strength to be versatile against anything from T3 to T6. They might lack the AP against a MC but at least they'd have a reasonable chance of forcing saves.

I guess originally when I planned to have all heavy weapons separate I had in mind to keep moving infantry to mid-table to form my front line, in which case the heavy weapons would be unable to shoot until there. Plus a heavy weapon up at the front would be wasting a lot of range and not have long before being assaulted. On the other hand you make a good point that a HW team in a squad could be viewed as simply having extra wounds, and you never know when a couple of heavy shots at the last minute against a MC could turn the tide before they hit the lines. Certainly something to consider!

I realised I have another quick question:

5. Vox Casters. How vital are they? As I'm pencilling things into BattleScribe and planning models I'm intending to give every squad a vox caster. Orders seem so strong than a few points for double success chance seems worth it. Plus if it's only on a few units I could end up really wanting to get an order through on a squad lacking it and then failing without a reroll. Am I throwing points away by giving every squad a vox or is it sensible?

Edited by Thoridon, 01 February 2017 - 04:52 PM.

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#6
WarriorFish

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Voxes aren't vital, and are only worth considering if you intend to use them i.e. good Orders use, or a special rule (e.g. from a formation requiring them). Across several squads the cost can mount up a bit, but if you're planning on using them fully they can make the difference in getting orders through. There's nothing stopping you from just placing them in squads you intend to use orders for though, such as HWT squads.

 

Orders are a good bonus I think, but serviceable without vox as a "bonus". Don't forget that psychic powers can also supplement your troops so might be something to consider also - there is much in the game for you to catch up on I'm sure tongue.png How about some more Guard pictures while you're working things through? msn-wink.gif


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#7
Tallarn Commander

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Thoridon, you have an impressive guard collection! You had asked about the viability of lascannons in platoon infantry squads. I personally like them. I've been running a 35-trooper lascannon-plasma gun platoon in many lists for 17 years. Sometimes the unit does good work and sometimes it does zilch.

I suggest you try out autocannon platoons, platoons with just special weapons, and lascannon platoons. They all are good options in the guard toolkit.

With regard to voxes, I usually only bring 3: 1 in the CCS and 1 in each of my 30-trooper blobbed up infantry platoons. They only costs 3 flamers and they have been very helpful in helping me get my orders off. Note that since I usually blob up 3 platoon infantry squads I only buy a vox forc1 of the squads. Again, I suggest you play some games with voxes and some games without.

I also agree with Warrior Fish that psykers are quite good. I'm trying out a psyker for a local escalation league (Psyker Wojni who I painted up for this month's painting campaign). Sometimes he does zilch, but generally he hands out some superb buffs.

Good luck and welcome back!
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#8
Thoridon

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I hadn't realised the Psykers don't take up an HQ slot, I'll certainly have to get a few of those! A lot of those Divination powers would synergise very well with Guard units.

An infantry blob is something I'll have to consider. It's only the basic Infantry Squads (inc. integrated single Heavy teams) of a platoon, right? So separate Heavy and Special squads remain on their own? I was intending to keep each squad of 10 apart for flexibility in positioning and targeting but having spent more time looking at the orders and potential psyker powers I can certainly see the benefit of a blob or two with something like a commissar attached and buffs being thrown onto them. I might have to try some blobs of 20 or 30 and see how they feel, they'd at least tie any charging enemies up a little longer and give my assault troops time to charge in response (if I use or ally any).

Edit: Actually, Priests look much more powerful than commissars. Granting Fearless and a chance to reroll wounds in combat for the same points as a Commissar that just gives Stubborn? I can see the Commissar being better in combat himself, but then I wouldn't want to spend many extra points on a T3 model to give extra wargear. Looks like Psyker and Priest are the optimal buffing combo for an infantry blob?

For a picture, here's a very old (and only primed) metal Sentinel:

sdzSfKm.jpg

That looks like an assault cannon to me, which a sentinel can't use. To fit that in with current rules I'd say the closest weapon it could pass for is the basic multi-laser. Maybe I can find an old spare lascannon to chop the end off and attach on here? Though that would make the gun a bit long in proportion to the 'body'. I'd also say it has to be the Scout version, being open-topped.

Edited by Thoridon, 02 February 2017 - 08:54 AM.

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#9
WarriorFish

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Priests are generally better than Commissars yes. It's not often you see an old school Sentinel - multilaser would work well as you say but you can always count it as something else :)


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#10
Toxichobbit

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Edit: Actually, Priests look much more powerful than commissars. Granting Fearless and a chance to reroll wounds in combat for the same points as a Commissar that just gives Stubborn? I can see the Commissar being better in combat himself, but then I wouldn't want to spend many extra points on a T3 model to give extra wargear. Looks like Psyker and Priest are the optimal buffing combo for an infantry blob?
 

 

I disagree with this. I feel that Priests and Commissars are for different uses.

 

I use Priests for a more aggressive (advancing, objective grabbing) unit. Zealot is obviously good for a unit that you don't want to run and will be getting into melee, while the War Hymms make the unit a little tougher or better offensively in melee. However, War Hymms are unreliable which is also something to take into consideration. Priests are (IMO) a waste of points on a defensive (gun line, hold objective) unit because all they offer is the morale effects from Zealot and some contingency if your unit happens to end up in melee. In fact, I'd even argue that Zealot is as much a disadvantage because it prevents a unit from using Go to Ground. Which is where Commissars come in...

 

The Commissar doesn't offer as many straight up buffs but does do the job of preventing the unit from fleeing better than a Priest. While a Priest outright prevents fleeing at the cost of Go to Ground, the Commissar makes the unit less likely to fail it's Ld test due to Stubborn and Ld9 and gives you the option to pass the test at the cost of one model from the unit with Summary Execution. So basically the same benefits of Zealot with regards to Morale (auto-pass tests) but with a different disadvantage (model lost rather than can't Go to Ground).

 

At this point it's probably seeming like the Priest is still the best option, but there's a reason I've been mentioning Go to Ground a lot. That's because the Commissar allows it and the you can negate it's downsides with "Get Back in the Fight!" order. So with your Commissar you can auto-pass Ld tests if you want to, Go to Ground (or retreat from something you can't hurt in melee) if you want to and with the help of a Senior Officer be operating at full efficiency next turn.

 

The Priest and his unit have more outright buffs but lean heavily to aggressive play in order to get the best use, while the Commissar trades outright buffs for more versatility, lending himself to more tactical options.


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#11
Thoridon

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I'll bear that in mind, thanks. I do already have 2 old Commissar models, plus another to build from the Start Collecting set, so I'll have the full 3 to use in a CAD if I want to.

Next bit of Pondering: Schaeffer's Last Chancers
I liked the models in this unit, though I never got round to painting them. Obviously there are no rules for them any more, and there are 12 models, so I'm thinking of splitting them up to form different units. Using the GW image as a checklist...

P5IndB3.jpg

I'm thinking the 3 at the front cirlcled in red would make possible officer models, either Platoon or Company commanders.

Plasma Pistol + Combat Weapon
Bolt Pistol + Combat Weapon
Laspistol + Combat Weapon

Obviously the laspistol guy also holds a lasgun, which isn't legal, but I don't want to cut the model up so I can just say it doesn't count (or find a way to cover it with something removable that won't cause any damage - maybe stick a map over the top). I probably wouldn't put a plasma pistol on a commander made from scratch but heck, they can be fun and he would at least have BS4 for it.

The 7 ticked in green would all fit as the core of a Veteran squad; A Meltagun, Sniper and 5 lasguns.

That leaves 2 holding heavy weapons, the Missile Launcher and what looks like a Heavy Bolter. Both are legal in a Veteran squad alongside the 2 specials and as I have plenty of heavy weapon team models around I could easily add a loader to one of them to make a team, bringing the Vet squad to 9. I'm just not sure which I'd use, as I'd intended the Veterans to be mobile rapid response which doesn't work too well with a Heavy. That said, a Missile team could work well with lots of enemy MCs around if I can rush them to a key point and then try to hold it until reinforcements can arrive.

As I'd have 9 Veterans missing a Sergeant I could then use one of the 3 circled red in that role for a full Veteran squad. That would give 2 spare to use as Officers and 1 spare heavy weapon, which might actually work nicely as I could switch between the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter for different games (making a heavy team base where I could slot either of them into it). If I did this I'd possibly use the Plasma Pistol model as the veteran sergeant, to avoid losing an order-issuing officer from Gets Hot!

Thoughts? Would a squad of Vets with Melta, Sniper, Missile/Heavy Bolter and possible Plasma Pistol sergeant work as a general purpose rapid response or vanguard unit or be a few too many eggs in a T3 basket?

Edited by Thoridon, 02 February 2017 - 01:01 PM.

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#12
WarriorFish

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They could work as commanders no problem :) Otherwise good Vet squad material so sounds like a plan to me for a general purpose squad :tu:


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#13
Thoridon

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Thanks for the suggestions so far smile.png I think I've managed to fit all my old models into codex-legal units now, along with the new additions I'm in the process of building.

HQ
Commissar Yarrick
Company Command Squad (using Laspistol model from Schaeffer's unit, old Stormtroopers as veterans)
Company Command Squad (using Bolt Pistol model from Schaeffer's unit, need 5 model as veterans)
3x Commissars with Bolt Pistol and Combat Weapon to place in squads if wanted

Troops
Praetorian Infantry Platoon
Infantry Squad with Flamer
Infantry squad with Grenade Launcher
- Autocannon team to swap into a squad if desired
Heavy Weapon Squad with 3x Lascannons
- Could mix heavy weapons into squads if desired
Platoon Command Squad (Bolt Pistol + Combat Weapon officer)

1st Catachan Infantry Platoon
Infantry Squad with Flamer
Infantry Squad with Flamer
Infantry Squad with Flamer
Heavy Weapon Squad with 3x Lascannons
- Could mix heavy weapons into squads if desired
Platoon Command Squad (Bolter officer)

2nd Catachan Infantry Platoon
Infantry Squad with Flamer
Infantry Squad with Flamer
Special Weapon Squad with 3x Sniper Rifles
Platoon Command Squad (Bolter + Power Fist officer - I might just say he has a bionic arm to not waste the points on a power fist!)

Cadian Infantry Platoon
Infantry Squad with Grenade Launcher
Infantry Squad with Grenade Launcher
Infantry Squad with Grenade Launcher
Heavy Weapons Squad with Autocannons
- Could mix heavy weapons into squads if desired
Platoon Command Squad (Bolt Pistol + Combat Weapon officer)

Valhallan Veteran Squad with Flamer and Melta, Bolt Pistol sergeant
- Optional Chimera for transport

Schaeffer's "Stupidly Expensive" Veterans with Melta, Sniper Rifle and Missile Launcher or Heavy Bolter, Plasma Pistol sergeant
- Optional Chimera for transport

Elites
Tempestus Scion Platoon
Scion Squad (Weapons to be decided)
- Taurox Prime as transport
Scion Command Squad (Weapons to be decided)

Fast
Rough Rider Squad (5 with basic gear)
Scout Sentinel with heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel with Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel with Multi-laser

Heavy
Basilisk
Leman Russ Battle Tank with hull-mount Heavy Bolter (no sponsons)
Leman Russ Demolisher with hull-mount Heavy Bolter (no sponsons)
Leman Russ Exterminator with hull-mount Lascannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons
Leman Russ Exterminator with hull-mount Lascannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons

Flyer
Lightning Strike Fighter

That's a total of around 2.6k - 3k points to play with currently, depending on which upgrades I give things.

All in all I can put together 6 Troop slots by splitting my platoons up and 3 HQ slots so for a forged list I could run up to 3 CADs in a larger game to open up extra Heavy slots. I think those infantry platoons will give enough bodies on the ground and each is themed slightly differently so they can have a different feel and playstyle. I went with lascannons for the Praetorian and Catachan heavy weapons team for the simple fact that I have 6 lascannons built up, not enough Autocannons to go round and I decided I'd rather run some Wyverns than use Mortar teams. The lascannon teams could go as separate squads, could be part of the infantry squads or could just not be used at all, but they give me the option if I want them smile.png

I think the main issues if I was to play my Guard without allies in a larger points game would be a lack of anti-air and needing more Heavies. I've got the human shield sorted but I need to add more firepower. I'm most likely going to add a Leman Russ Punisher, a couple of Wyverns and see whether I go with anti-arcraft vehicles or extra flyers for anti-air capability. I'd also like a Super-Heavy tank for the simple fact that they look awesome... oh, and I need to get a few models to use as Psykers and Priests. Plus I'd like some Elysian drop troops with valkyries.

Oh dear. That's a lot!

Anyhow, that's my structure in place going forward. Time to get on with building and painting (and repainting old models).

Edited by Thoridon, 02 February 2017 - 04:03 PM.

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#14
WarriorFish

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Don't mix HWS weapons, always keep them the same so they can focus their efforts more effectively :tu: Similar for vehicle squadrons - keep them the same builds for more efficient use.


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#15
Thoridon

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Also, as requested, a couple more photos. First up my 3 old vehicles previously painted - Basilisk, Battle Tank and Demolisher. I've got some updating on the paintwork to do, including where I removed the Demolisher's sponsons (which I still need to do to the Battle Tank) but they're not too bad considering how long ago they were painted.

6Uxj1qz.jpg

And next my pair of Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamer, intended to support the Catachans. I need to go back and add some highlighting/shading to these, plus new bases (which applies to all my old units - I never did 'proper' basing on them, just green paint).

DYPZR21.jpg

So some updating and improving to do but I think the base work can mostly remain.
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#16
Thoridon

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Don't mix HWS weapons, always keep them the same so they can focus their efforts more effectively thumbsup.gif Similar for vehicle squadrons - keep them the same builds for more efficient use.


Aye, sorry, I should've made it more clear that I meant the heavy weapons could be put into the infantry squads of that platoon instead of being run as a separate 3-team heavy squad smile.png If I ran them as a dedicated heavy squad they'd run the trio of matching weapons.
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#17
Cap'm Heckus

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So jealous of all the old metals. I started out with the old rogue trader models and bought all the metals as they came out. Sold them, sadly. I've built back up to a respectable force but the old models have so much character.

 " We have failed to uphold Brannigan's Law. However I did make it with a hot alien babe. And in the end, is that not what man has dreamt of since first he looked up at the stars?"  -Captain Zapp Brannigan

 

 

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#18
The Mad Hermit

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That is a very impressive collection of stuff from the Good Old Days™.

 

The only other thing that I can add is that I used the miniature of Col. Schaeffer as the Commanding Officer in an all Catachan army I made back in the days of 3rd. Edition. He worked pretty well for that.

 

I still have the two heavy weapons troops from the Last Chancers (and the missile launcher's loader- the guy in the slouch hat) and I'm considering making use of them in my newest army if I can figure out where to put them.


What a long, strange trip it's been....


#19
Thoridon

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I had a little go at updating the paintwork on a Catachan today. Being careful to not put too much fresh paint on and lose detail on the model but I felt the older models needed a touch up.

nuKNZIK.jpg

The change of colour on the base is to match how all my newer models look. I am going to do proper bases but that'll be my last priority when the models themselves are done, so for now I just wanted rid of the bright green!

Not the best detail camera so it doesn't show work like the eyes I added (previous face was just a flesh colour with wash). Added a bit of stubble too as his face looked a bit odd without something extra. I realised on this guy I'd painted flesh on his chest when he actually has a shirt and jacket, so hey, apparently I was a bit blind 15 years ago tongue.png

I think I'll have another look tomorrow when the touch-ups from today have dried properly, see what else I can add and then if I'm happy go through all the other old catachans the same way.

Edited by Thoridon, 08 February 2017 - 04:44 PM.

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#20
WarriorFish

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Nothing like a repaint to spruce up an army - I revamped my Guard years ago but it was worth it :D


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#21
Thoridon

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Similar update to a Praetorian (old left, update right):

vIsgsLE.jpg

At more risk of obscuring detail with the metal models, I think this is about as much extra paint as I can put on.

Edited by Thoridon, 09 February 2017 - 03:31 PM.

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#22
WarriorFish

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Looks great to me! Repainting is a different thing to painting fresh but you seem to have got it sorted ;)


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#23
Thoridon

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Ta smile.png I'll probably run through and update all the other old models to match next, before starting on anything that hadn't already been painted.

They'll be matt varnished and living on a shelf from now on, so the paint chips from being boxed and unvarnished won't be reoccurring.

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#24
Thoridon

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While doing a bit of painting I had a think about the Scions. I figure their best use will be using the Hellrain formation from the Start Collecting box (with the Scion unit returning as an identical squad when killed while the Commissar is alive). I could equip that Scion squad with a plasma pistol and dual plasma gun, which is expensive for 5 T3 models but they'd return that points cost each time they get wiped out. The Command Squad could be similar, but running 4x plasma guns. I'd skip the vox caster to get that extra special weapon in and the Tempestor could focus his order on making his own squad twinlinked. He can always try his second order on the Scion squad if in range. I'd deep strike them in near key targets (ie. enemy MCs) and use those 7 plasma weapons to try to take them out. When the Scions die I get to repeat the same again with them, though the command squad would stay down.

The Commissar would be tucked away somewhere with protection, just to stay alive as long as possible to keep replacing that unit, while the Taurox Prime could either act as a fast anti-MC hunter (with autocannon and missiles) or start the game next to an allied unit needing a transport, such as a small squad of blood angels eager to get into assault...

I don't think pairing the Scions with the Taurox Prime would make much sense, it'd be more efficient just taking a Vet squad in a Chimera for a mech role.

Deep striking plasma suicide is much more fun!

Edited by Thoridon, 11 February 2017 - 04:14 PM.

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#25
WarriorFish

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Hellrain is a good way to run Scions, both starting out and as an allied force to Guard. A SCS and squad will be pretty much what most people are after anyway, and deep striking to plasma/melta faces off the intended use so the Taurox and Commissar aren't a huge tax as they can find a use. Or rather the Taurox Prime can - the Commissar will be hiding with his radio :P


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