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Dread Comparison

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#1
Morticon

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Okay, so as some of you may have seen in the Tactica thread, I mentioned that I dont think our dreads are all that anymore sad.png 

Here are the comparative break downs of the dreads. Thankfully we can use all of them in a battleforged list with no issue.  However, they will not be able to use all the BA abilities of characters. 


All dreads have a Stormbolter standard - if you want to change it out for a Heavy flamer that would be an additional 15 points for all listed dreads. 

 

 

REGULAR.

 

Ye Ol' Standard will run you at the following costs:

133 - Assault Cannon
139 - Multi-Melta
140 - Rifleman (2x Twin-auto)
145 - Twin-AutoCannon
162 - Twin-Lascannon 

For the missile launcher, you subtract 17points. 

The assault cannon is actually a solid, solid weapon now, but combat is a nightmare, and it puts you up close and personal.  The issue here, is that even with 6 shots, you're only hitting on 4s if you move.  

I think with T7, and 8 wounds 145 or even 162 is a really, really good bet.  S9 is king in this game. 

 

 


VENERABLE

Just add 20 points on to the above.  BUT....for those 20 points, you get:

* a 6+ ignore wound.  Something to note, this is not a save, so this is taken after you fail a save, and then have multiple wounds done.  ie: If you had to fail a lascannon save, and the lascannon then does d6 damage, youd take those d6 x 6+ ignores.  (same goes for DC blackrage and mephy)

* You also get 2+ for WS and BS!!! This i think on the standard platform of the dread is well, well worth the points.  

 

 


IRON CLAD

He's a little pricier than the rest at 187.

But, for this increase you get the Iron Clad assault launchers, which means d3 mortal wounds just for making a charge (super awesome).
You also get to reroll 1s if the seismic hammer+fist is chosen (i mistakenly said they get a +1 in another thread!)
But, the biggest, biggest buff is the S8 - this is huge .

With the proliferation of S4 weapons, it means he only gets wounded on a 6+, not a 5+.  Also, with the melta flying about everywhere, its only a wound on a 4, rather than a 3+ (and all those S7 shots everywhere also need 5s).

Considering he's only a little pricier than the others mentioned already- I think its well worth it. 

 

But wait...there's more....
 


CONTEMPTOR 

This little beast comes equipped with a 5++, meaning he can negate all those multidamage rolls before they happen.  By far the more powerful option in terms of survivability. 

He also has a wound buff - W10 rather than 8. 
He is limited however to a MM or a Kheres AC (Hvy6, S7, -1, Dam1)

But, he also moves 9" at a time -rather than 6" like everyone else. 
Did i mention he also has WS/BS 2+ ?

You'd expect to pay loads yeah? 

He runs at 165 for the AC and 167 for the MM.  

 


You may think...ahh...but....what about in comparison to the BA lot!! ? They must be GREAT!!!


Thats the sad news. sad.png 
 


FURIOSO 

Our standard furioso comes in at:  191.  No additional Toughness or wounds benefit over the usual dread- despite our AV13 in previous dex. 
He does come with an 8" move - 2 over the regular dreads. Which is better than nothing - though, not worth the point hike, i feel. 

He does, however, have the furioso fists - the pair giving him reroll misses and a straight 3 wounds.  
Talons are an upgrade, but dont have the reroll ability, are d6 damage and are 15 points more expensive. dry.png 

The Fragioso comes in at 7 points more expensive (assuming you're losing the SB, not the melta).  Its a GREAT weapon, but it puts you in the thick of things - and yet still out of range of a drop :/ So....good luck getting to use it in anything thats not a Lucius or a Raven

 

 
 

DC DREAD

The DC dread gets rage- which means +1 attack, and 6+ ignore wound ala the Venerable. 
He can consolidate 6" instead of 3" at end of combat. 
Like the Furioso, he also has an 8" move.
 

With two fists standard, (meaning rerolls to hit) you're paying 197 points.  dry.png

 

 


LIBRARIAN

The libby dread comes in at 192 points. Cheaper than the DC dread. 
In combat, he has a very good 2+.  
Additionally, he's got two powers (the 4++ is golden!) and can deny. 

His big thing, however, is that he is blessed with being a character. 
This means that because he is also under 10 wounds, he cannot be targeted.   This is possibly the best decision for this unit, given that there's not much else going for him - considering the others are so much cheaper. 

 


So....

There you have it.   Here are my personal rankings for shooty vs fighty.


SHOOTY (Efficacy )

1. Contemptor (if you want AC/MM) 

2. Vendread (if you want TAuto/TLas)
3. Regular 
4. Furioso
5. Iron Clad
6. DC
7. Libby
 

FIGHTY (Efficacy - straight up fighting ability)

1. DC 
2. Furioso
3. Iron Clad
4. Venerable
5. Libby

6. Contemptor

7. Regular

FIGHTY (Efficiency - a broad measure of how well they fight in relation to their cost and survivability)

1. Contemptor
2. Iron Clad

3. Venerable

4. DC 

5. Regular (only JUST losing out to the DC dread)

6. Furioso

7. Libby * (highly survivable, thanks to *CHARACTER*  but highly costed)
 

COST EFFICIENCY (Straight up cost)

1. Regular
2. Venerable
3. Contemptor
4. Iron Clad
5. Furioso

6. Libby

7. DC



Overall the Contemptor and Venerable seem to be the big "all-rounder dread" winner (using a nominal ranking/scoring system assigning 7 points to category one, down to 1 point for category seven).  

Contemptor - 21
Venerable - 21
Iron Clad - 18
Regular - 16
Furioso - 15
DC - 14
Libby Dread- 5


It's worth mentioning that the libby character ability is VERY nice and will ensure he gets to combat.  It's just such a pity that there's not too much more than that going for him. 

Hope you guys find this helpful


Edited by Jolemai, 01 September 2020 - 09:37 AM.
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Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
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#2
Slothysaur

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I'm glad the contemptor is in a great spot. I just recently got into using them since the plastic one dropped, and it was awesome. Good to know I can keep using it to good effect.
Sad about the libby dread though, they were right up there with fragioso and DC dreads for my favorites (just can't not love BA dreads).
One thing that is annoying and I'm not looking forwards to is taking the blood talons OFF of my DC dread. Maybe I'll hold off on that for now incase something changes between now and the codex*.

*excuse I will be using to put it off.

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#3
Panzer

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Something to note since you mentioned the Fragioso being just out of drop range.....Dreads can't get into Drop Pods anymore. Means they have to walk all the way over the board. That alone makes the Libby Dread better than the Fragioso and the DC Dread imo.


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#4
Jorre

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Hang on... does this mean we can take Venerable, contempors, iron class etc?

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#5
RedemptionNL

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One difference you missed: the furioso and death company dreadnought also have 8" movement instead of 6".
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#6
keeblerartillery

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You a systems engineer mort? Great analysis
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#7
Fidelius Animo

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Hang on... does this mean we can take Venerable, contempors, iron class etc?


We can BUT not as blood angels.


The new detachments only require one key word similarity for models to be fielded together.

However any buffs from characters that indicate <Blood Angel> will effect them
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#8
Silverson

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I would be curious to see how things stand by adding murderfang, blizzard dread and bjorn to that list as they could give even more of a sample to compare how our dreads fair off.

Tho giving that rating system looks bad for us there are things that's rightly people have said that make our dreads better (character and two psychic powers and deny from the Lbby boosting his appeal considerably

Blood Angels codex p6/w3/d0/32<p>Ad Mech codex p2/w2/d0/l0


#9
Morticon

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Something to note since you mentioned the Fragioso being just out of drop range.....Dreads can't get into Drop Pods anymore. Means they have to walk all the way over the board. That alone makes the Libby Dread better than the Fragioso and the DC Dread imo.

Lucius pods! 


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"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

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#10
sockwithaticket

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One thing that is annoying and I'm not looking forwards to is taking the blood talons OFF of my DC dread. Maybe I'll hold off on that for now incase something changes between now and the codex*.

 

Mate just decide on a game by game basis whether its fist or talon and inform your opponent, they shouldn't have a problem with it. It's surely not something worth pulling your model apart over.


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#11
Morticon

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You a systems engineer mort? Great analysis

 

High school Geo teacher :P hahahah


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"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#12
Bartali

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Pretty much my thinking on Dreads. I think the TwinLas Dread is probably the best one we can take as an actual BA unit. Same durability as Furioso/Libby/DC, 48" range on the gun so you don't need a ride to be effective, cheaper and with only a minor trade off in combat ability.

 

The second BA Dread choice is probably the Libby Dread. Character ability is great for survivability, and is probably the safest platform for casting powers. Blood Boil is pretty nasty and the other two powers are great utility powers. Again don't need a ride to be effective


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#13
Arkhanist

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I would be curious to see how things stand by adding murderfang, blizzard dread and bjorn to that list as they could give even more of a sample to compare how our dreads fair off.

Tho giving that rating system looks bad for us there are things that's rightly people have said that make our dreads better (character and two psychic powers and deny from the Lbby boosting his appeal considerably

 

Aye, I think libby dread is more an alternative to a librarian than a classic dread - smite gives him some more ranged punch than just his melta, and obvs much tougher. Lack of a pod means he doesn't have the flexibility of a JP/bike libby though. Good pick for a stormraven perhaps. Note it seems all libby know at least two powers & cast 2 per turn. Depends whether the higher cost of the dread toughness/wounds is worth it compared to say, mephiston (who also needs a transport, but can ride anything). 

 

Sticking with the psykers for a mo, it seems that vanilla astartes powers are really useful for blood angels - charge and advance reroll is basically a cheaper lemartes buff for everybody; and +1S +1T +1A on sanguinary guard, VV or death co with other BA character buffs could make them a truly scary unit. They wouldn't gain the advantage of other BA char buffs themselves in melee, so I'd probably hold them behind the line a bit, give them a bike/JP taking pot shots with a combi weapon.

 

A venerable auto or las dread in the backfield ideally lurking behind cover, doubling as AA sounds really useful for the points though and hard to take down - either he'll be ignored, or take weight of fire off our assbacks & transports either of which would be useful. It's silly we have to borrow them from another chapter, but at least they can be part of a BA detachment.

 

Now, if we can take mortis deredeo as BA in the new forgeworld book - a man can dream!


Edited by Arkhanist, 04 June 2017 - 11:37 AM.

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#14
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Murderfang: 200 points.

 

Movement: 8

WS: 2+

A: 5

Murderclaws: Power fist with reroll to wound.

Heavy flamer & storm bolter.

Murderlust: Can reroll any failed charge rolls.

And is a character.

 

For 3 more points seems better than the DC dread.

 

Bjorn the Fellhanded: 248 points (Assault cannon & Heavy flamer)

 

Movement: 8

WS: 2+

BS: 2+

S: 7

T: 8

A: 5

 

Gives 1 command point.

Reroll to hit for friendly space wolves within 6ยดยด.

5+ wound negated.

Character.

 

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Edited by Orpheus Black Blood, 05 June 2017 - 10:09 AM.


#15
Charlo

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The Libby Dread is a great back field deterrent IMO, he'll tear apart big things with S10 -4AP 3D and if he's ever in trouble the smoke launchers can come in handy.

 

Shame about his 3A characteristic though, even after the FAQ for 7th where he had 5 base... That seems like a full on oversight. Potential 4++ is nice though.

 

He's also totally lost his status as the best "Inside a storm raven he's the ultimate anti-big-thing." seeing as a Furioso could easily deal more damage with re-rolls from fists or D6 dmaage from Talons PLUS get the charge a little easier with the grapple....



#16
sebs_evo7

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Apart from the minor differences in LD can anyone see why you would take a melee furioso over a dc dreadnought?

#17
Charlo

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Apart from the minor differences in LD can anyone see why you would take a melee furioso over a dc dreadnought?

 

You really want a Frag Cannon?

 

Now you mention it the DC Dread is better in all ways and able to take advantage of more buffs.

 

6" consolidate is friggin' brutal.


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#18
sebs_evo7

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That's what i mean. I can't see why you would take the furioso over the dc dread. 7th you had av differences but seems they are similar stats in 8th apart from ld

#19
Charlo

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And Ld is unimportant as it's a 1 model unit...

 

Hm - I guess no reason really.



#20
Bartali

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The Libby Dread is a great back field deterrent IMO, he'll tear apart big things with S10 -4AP 3D and if he's ever in trouble the smoke launchers can come in handy.

 

Shame about his 3A characteristic though, even after the FAQ for 7th where he had 5 base... That seems like a full on oversight. Potential 4++ is nice though.

 

He's also totally lost his status as the best "Inside a storm raven he's the ultimate anti-big-thing." seeing as a Furioso could easily deal more damage with re-rolls from fists or D6 dmaage from Talons PLUS get the charge a little easier with the grapple....

 

I don't think Dreads work that well in the backfield unless they're a shooting platform (and then you might be better of with a Pred).

 

You really need to be able to initiate assault to make it worthwhile, and if something is entering your backfield they're likely to be faster and/or deep striking.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm going off Dreads. Preds if you want a backfield shooting platform, Terminators if you want to be aggressive.



#21
vahouth

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're now the only chapter to field the most Dreadnoughts in an army!


Edited by vahouth, 05 June 2017 - 01:27 PM.


#22
Arkhanist

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The more I think about it, the more I'm going off Dreads. Preds if you want a backfield shooting platform, Terminators if you want to be aggressive.

 

 

I still fancy a quad autocannon dread though, just cos it looks cool :)


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#23
Morticon

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those SW dreads are miles better <_< 


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Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#24
Brother Lemartes

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The only upside to our D.C. Dreads over murderfang (lamest name ever) is that we can take more than 1 I guess? Still doesn't justify the fact that he is way better for a very similar cost.

I'll still be rocking our D.C. Dreads even though they may be outclassed by others. That 6inch consolidate may prove to be pretty useful. Furiosos can stay on the bench (especially since I haven't built any yet haha).

#25
Helias Tancred

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Sounds like we sorta got some shaft here with our dreads?


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