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Jabberwocky Rises: Crusade game 3


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#151
WarriorFish

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Simple is often best, especially if you'll be doing some intro games with the new players. As we've discussed elsewhere I think there's a few decent custom traits, but it seems that this is usually the case. Some are too niche or not particularly good so the viable options tend to be slim pickings. That said I do use the 6++ for my gaunts which I don't think many people will be fighting me for tongue.png

 

Do you know what sort of spread of armies you'll be up against? This could be a great way to sink your teeth into the army and get to know them as you fight lots of different foes smile.png


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#152
Xenith

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From rumblings in the group, there seems to be a hell of a lot of Death Guard, one new player, another is painting poxwalkers, so I think:

2+ Death Guard
1 Dark Angels
1 Dark Eldar
1 Eldar or Necrons

#153
WarriorFish

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A gaggle of DG isn't ideal but there is some nice variety elsewhere at least smile.png I hear DG are rather good currently so those will test your nid mettle, and I expect the DE will be a harder match up too with their spruced up codex and general play. Tough games will be good training - as worst comes to it you learn more from defeat laugh.png


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#154
Xenith

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So I stuck with this as my 25PL starting Crusade list, and got my first game in last night vs Drukhari.

 

 

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr

+ HQ +
Neurothrope - Smite, Catalyst

+ Troops +
20xx Hormagaunts: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

10x Termagants: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

 

+ Elites +
Lictor

+ Heavy Support +
Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

++ Total: [25 PL, 1CP, 577pts] ++

 

The mission is asymmetrical ,which is a nice foil to all the tournament games I've been playing, but was unfortunately a little 'all or nothing', in that the assassinate objective dominates. Kill the warlord, and the attacker wins, if he lives, defender wins. Defender gets points for the warlord killing stuff, and the attacker gets points for wounding the target, which is protected by LO,S!, so the progressive scoring is unbalanced also, but made for a fun game. 

 

My opponent has a new Drukhari army, but no codex yet so was using Index rules, so was missing a lot of stuff, which didn't help the game. He had:

 

The Visarch

3x Grotesques

5x Kabalite Warriors, champion, whip, blaster pistol

10x Warriors, champion, whip, blaster pistol

5x Incubi, Klaivex. 

 

We both picked the 'Secure the site' Agenda, so complete an action within 6" of the table centre for easy XP.

 

My opponent opted to be the attacker, so I set up as far back as possible, with my gaunt screen further forwards. My opponent was super unlucky and basically failed to hit more than 1/3 of his splinter rifle shots,then failed multiple charges, even with rerolls. Most notably a T2 7" charge into my lictor.

 

My lictor largely just secured the area, boosting his XP, the hormagaunts barrelled into the Grotesques and grinding them down over 4 turns through a mix of numbers and catalyst. Toxin sacs actually helped out here, and undoubtedly caused 2 additional wounds to the grotesques. Fine in Narrative play, but at 2pts/model or whatever, pointless in matched. Just get more gaunts. 

 

In the end, the Incubi finally made it into Combat in T3 and killed the gants, the Lictor and almost got the Neurothrope, but could only get one wound past that 3++. In comparison, the Tyrannofex murdered anything it looked at, melting both kabalite units and the visarch, and was maybe too hardcore for a small game. I'll think about not using him again until we get to larger game sizes, unless I'm playing Death Guard, maybe. 

 

The end result was something like 80 - 20 to the Nids, which is a poor reflection of how close the actual game was - 20 of those points were from smiting 2 incubi over 2 turns, and 50 for just not dying! 

 

I made up a Hive Tyrant over the long weekend, who I really want to get using in games - do you think even a Tyrant might be too much for a 25PL/500pt game? I'll need to think about what goes into the army next!

 

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The final showdown between the Klaivex and the Neurothrope. The Klaivex got a 2D hit through the Warp Field, before being mind-flayed by the Neurothrope.

 

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My Hive Tyrant. I love Psychic 'Nids, and a big brain bug is something I've wanted for a long time. This is just a zoanthrope head stuck onto a tyrant body, with the carapace filed back to accomodate the bulbous dome. Unsure whether to stick with the basic zoan head or swap it for the Neurothrope head. Might give it a try. 

 

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Edited by Xenith, 06 April 2021 - 08:14 AM.

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#155
Majkhel

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I think it's a really nice idea with the psyker head thumbsup.gif 
As for which one to choose, I can't help really. Current one is a classic "Alien Queen" shape, which is most appropriate for a tyrant(ess). On the other hand, Neurothrope has extra spikes, which is always a good thing on a really nasty creature.


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WIP thread - Blood Angels 5th Company "Daemonbanes"  ||   Other things&projects
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." ~W. Churchill

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#156
WarriorFish

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I'd say the Neurothrope head? As a Hive Tyrant should look a bit special :)

 

I think 500pts games are too small for larger critters plural - a single one should be fine, aside from opponents you also don't want to put too many eggs into baskets. A Hive Tyrant could do well as your big bad there. Alternatively going smaller scale with a Warrior Prime and take numbers? Without the new codex and with a hodgepodge army I don't think you should worry too much after this DE first game as other armies will no doubt fare better against you ;)


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#157
Xenith

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 Without the new codex and with a hodgepodge army I don't think you should worry too much after this DE first game as other armies will no doubt fare better against you msn-wink.gif

 

That's actually some pretty good advice, I'm doing reasonably well in a tourney that's ongoing, so was maybe going to show some...restraint, but I dont think I need to hamstring myself. I won a battle trait after the last game and was going to go easy on my opponents and give it to the gaunts or something, but instead I'll go whole hog and gift the Tyrannofex with Regeneration. Any random rolls for it will be pretty bad, as they're largely melee focussed for MONSTERS, so picking the trait for it is good, and I can get the best one early on. 

 

I've added the Hive Tyrant to my list with the ravenous hunger/whatever trait that gives me wounds back for eating models in combat - That one has to be done when I add him to the list. I have RP to burn, so am tempted to go with the whole brain bug vibe and give him mind eater (free move after killing a character in CC) or Resonance Barb (described as a giant veiny brain) for +1 to cast.



#158
Xenith

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So continuing the assembly of the Brood Swarm box, I've made up a unit of Gargoyles. These will probably get added to my crusade force for a laugh, if they get the Fleet of foot (wing) trait, they'll be able to advance minimum 15" per turn, 30" with the double move strat, which should prepresent a pain for people. The ObSec trait would be the icing on the cake. 

 

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#159
WarriorFish

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It's a good chance to try them out and see what they can do - in case the answer is the expected "not much" :P


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#160
Xenith

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It's a good chance to try them out and see what they can do - in case the answer is the expected "not much" tongue.png

 

Heh, undoubtedly. The good thing about Crusade is you can use Specialist Reinforcements to give pretty much everything an adaptive Physiology if you like, though they're not particularly synergistic with gargoyles.

 

On another note, I got some more models out of storage: 2x ravener boxes, 2x monopose gant boxes and a lictor, as well as my old Hive fleet from the 3rd ed tyranid release, I wanted to have a reminisce, and then begin repainting, though looking at them, the paint scheme isnt too bad - green carapace over chaos black. The spray is a bit flat, but a Black Templar glaze all over would bring it to life. I need to decide to repaint or keep as they are. Maybe keep as they are until I've done all the unpainted stuff, I think. 



#161
WarriorFish

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As goyles are the same target type as gaunts I think that's the best way to run them - a bit of target saturation. Maybe it helps some more gaunts survive to get in if you push hard with the goyles, or maybe they're left alone enough to keep a rear line shooty unit busy in combat for a bit. Keep the bar of expectations low and you can't be too disappointed :P

 

Repainting is usually not a small task, I'd wait until you've done all the unpainted stuff then see what you might do :tu:


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#162
Xenith

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Geting my old nids out of storage, I had way more than I expected!

 

Hive Fleet 2000

1x Hive Tyrant Conversion

1x Lictor Conversion

3x Warriors w/ Scytals, 2x spitters, 1x VC

11x Hormagaunts (8 painted)

14x Termagants: 8 Fleshborers, 4x spinefists, 1x Dev, 1x Spitter (8 with fleshborers painted)

8 Ripper Swarms (2 painted)

9 Genestealers (unpainted)

1 Ravener w/ rending claws

 

These'll make a nice addition to the Hive Fleet.


Edited by Xenith, 09 April 2021 - 04:07 PM.

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#163
Jud Cottrell

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Absolutely love the Tyrant with the Neurophrope head! Will look great in your scheme!

That’s a solid list of reinforcements, should keep you busy!

#164
Xenith

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Bit more work done on my Hive Guard Alpha - he's pretty much done bar the last minute addition of the extra Tyrant Guard forearm plates - needs a base to be made for him, then we're good!

 

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Also got some paint down on a gargoyle, these will be super fast with contrasts, I'm looking at maybe 30 mins a model or less. Woop!


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#165
Xenith

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last week saw me working on site in Nottingham, and naturally swung by Hobby Mecca for a look-see. I'm dead set on using some of the worst units the codex has to offer in my crusade game, so I picked up a Maleceptor, maybe one of the coolest looking models, but ith absolutely the worst rules. I look forward to getting it on the table!


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#166
Jud Cottrell

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The Hive Guard looks really good and chunky!

I too love the Maleceptor/Toxicrine kit (though I lean more towards the Toxicrine) and think you’re taking the right approach in building the models you like. Rules change but the models and fluff are what keeps us coming back for more Grimdark!

#167
Xenith

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I got my second Crusade game in last night against the Custodes - who had played 3 games already and seemingly gotten quite powerful. I used:

 

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Resonance Barb, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord
. . Adaptive Physiology: Accelerated Digestion

+ Troops +

Hormagaunts: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. . Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. . 20x Hormagaunt: 20x Scything Talons

+ Elites +

Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. . Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. . 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon

Lictor

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: Biovore

++ Total: [25 PL, 3CP, 615pts] ++
 

I was playing against 

Shield Captain - magic bionics, axe, +1 wound (3 Crusade points)

5 custodes with shooty guns

5 sisters of silence with bolters

Vindicare assassin. 

 

I've never faced custodes before so I was kind of expecting a bunch of 3++ saves, possibly  dread etc. so I went with Hive guard to try and plink some wounds off, and the biovore to try and score mortals. It was a bit one sided in the end, with my opponent only managing to kill the Lictor and ~12 gaunts. Catalyst+synapse is proving to be really quite strong in these smaller games. Annoyingly, I forgot to do Scry battle plans with my tyrant, who lost out on 5XP due to my negligence, but also the final wound on the shield captain and the vindicare were caused by spore mines, so I lost out on kill tally there also! The Hive Guard were pretty brutal and reliably knocked ~3 wounds of the custodian unit each time they fired, counteracted by my TL Devs which just spat worms at them all day and did nothing. 

 

I realised after this game I was still in a tournament mindset and not doing stuff that was cool/cinematic, so I think I need to reframe how I'm approaching these games. With that in mind, Hive Guard are pretty one dimensional, standing still and blasting stuff, while the Biovore was at least fun spitting mines all over the place. 

 

I'll leave the HG in the list for now, as they might be useful in larger games, but I'm really surprised at my success with taking random stuff. I know I'm decent at the game, but I thought with a substandard codex things might even out a bit. Time for the Gargoyles and Maleceptor!

 

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Edited by Xenith, 27 April 2021 - 12:38 PM.

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#168
WarriorFish

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Custodes are short on long ranged fire power which plays nicely into nid hands. As a highly elite army they are vulnerable to numbers but AT grade weaponry also goes far. Despite being behind the times I reckon nids are probably one of the armies Custodes would rather not fight especially with all the psychic fun they can muster to which Custodes have no real protection.

 

In this your gaunts did their job by drawing fire, overall I think everything landed nid side up here so along with some decent rolling that gives you the potential for results like this. Plus while I'm no Custodes expert I think splitting the points over multiple lists was not the best approach, I'm sure better results would have been achieved with a pure Custodes list? Onwards and upwards, just imagine how much better they can perform when all painted laugh.pngmsn-wink.gif


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#169
Xenith

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Haha, yea, The Tyrant is my first unpainted model used in years, purely because I love the conversion so much and want him on-table ASAP. As soon as I'm done with the Hive Guard, he's next on the Nid pile. 

 

I think you're right on the bad matchup for Custodes, mortal wound spam is probably their worst match up, and it was a theme I was going for with this force, having neglected the Psychic phase for years. Though I'm probably over-thinking this, I think I'm probably getting the army build right, in terms of competitivemess, however I just need to get back into 'fun' silly gaming again. Though as long as I've played, while my army has just been whatever I feel like using, I've always played to win. I think a game with a 9th ed codex like Dark Angels or Death Guard would be a very different beast. 

 

Instead of completely ripping into myself, I think I could have done different things and still had a good game. The Hive guard were just sat behind a building all game, shooting with no reprisals. If I'd left them out of cover, my opponent could have tried to kill them, but that would have taken guns away from my tyrant, presenting my oppoent with more choice (but both of them bad), but still better from a gameplay point of view - where the only thing they can see or shoot is the tyrant. 

 

The HG will stay in the list as I gave them the Enhanced resistance adaptation to go with the beefed up models I converted, and the Hive Guard Prime will be a great contender to get a weapon upgrade. 


Edited by Xenith, 28 April 2021 - 08:29 AM.


#170
WarriorFish

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I think you should always play to win, short of a tutorial game; anything else is poor sportsmanship. Regardless of your list you should both be trying your best to win the game (within the rules of course). If you want to soften a game for example if you're using Codex:GW Loves Me against Codex:GW Says "What?" then the list building stage is the place to try :)

 

I'd say the main weakness of nids is long ranged AT, so against an army that can't take advantage of this you're going to be better off. We can debate the nature of general codex strength too but ultimately the game is of many moving parts. All of this would count for nought if the dice gods hated you :P


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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#171
Reigart

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First, I like your scheme.  My group does grim dark as a de facto.  It is cool, but nids for me are a way to try some other things that normally would not fit that scheme (barring Tzeentch daemons maybe).  The whole idea of nids being external to the galaxy is cool.

 

Second, I love that Tyrant conversion.  I'm a big fan of the plated look.  I think it adds a lot of character.  It's also interesting because the Hive Tyrant is basically the strongest psyker we have (being able to cast 2 powers).

 

Keep exploring the tyranid unit choices!  With most factions not having their 9th edition codex, it's possible some units could better.  For example, I've been slowly collecting 'nids as people sell off their armies for a couple of years - so much so that my hive fleet's name probably should be eBay.  One lot had a Scythed Hierodule.  That was when they LoW and cost a bunch of points.  I wanted the model because it was like a giant zergling.  Now, they're no longer LoW and much more playable point cost!

 

I look forward to hearing about your maleceptor.  There's something to be said for a invulnerable save.  I haven't had a chance to use mine.


Edited by Reigart, 28 April 2021 - 12:32 PM.


#172
Xenith

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Thanks both! It's a bit tricky as Nids can be seen as 'weaker' going by hardcore tourney players, but they seem to be doing ok in our meta, we have a GSC/Nid combo lost through to the quarter finals in an ongoing tourney, which says a lot about the army and the person guiding it! 

 

I guess I'm still trying to work out my army building style, which is I guess competitive, but I'm not opposed to using 'bad' units according to the internet. I guess I consciously pick lists with the right moving parts to get the job done, regardless of what those actual units are. My first 50 PL in the tourney was already painted stuff (mostly) which were decent choices, from here on in, it might start getting a bit wacky...

 

 

First, I like your scheme.  My group does grim dark as a de facto.  It is cool, but nids for me are a way to try some other things that normally would not fit that scheme (barring Tzeentch daemons maybe).  The whole idea of nids being external to the galaxy is cool.

 

Second, I love that Tyrant conversion.  I'm a big fan of the plated look.  I think it adds a lot of character.  It's also interesting because the Hive Tyrant is basically the strongest psyker we have (being able to cast 2 powers).

 

Keep exploring the tyranid unit choices!  With most factions not having their 9th edition codex, it's possible some units could better.  For example, I've been slowly collecting 'nids as people sell off their armies for a couple of years - so much so that my hive fleet's name probably should be eBay.  One lot had a Scythed Hierodule.  That was when they LoW and cost a bunch of points.  I wanted the model because it was like a giant zergling.  Now, they're no longer LoW and much more playable point cost!

 

I look forward to hearing about your maleceptor.  There's something to be said for a invulnerable save.  I haven't had a chance to use mine.

 

Grim Dark is also cool, though for some reason I see Imperial and chaos as the grim, gritty factions, while all the Xenos in the 40k universe are the ones with the bright, outlandish schemes - again, contrasting with the imperium. The Maleceptor should be interesting, I'm really not sure what Adaptation to give it, if any. It could benefit from Monstrous size, to make those Scything talons actually do some work, but Accelerated Digestion might get me some wounds back and keep it alive. 



#173
Xenith

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Crusade game 3, this time against Emperor's Children and Daemon Summoning spam. It Hive Fleet Jabberwocky and their Dark Eldar allies against the evil space marines. 

 

The Fleet (31Power)

Hive Tyrant

20 gaunts

10 gargoyles

lictor

10 genestealers

Biovore

3 spore mines

 

Spiky Elves (29 PL)

Succubus - razor flail madness

10 Wyches - stuff

Venom

10 warriors

Cronos

5 scourges - shardcarbines

 

Chaos (60PL)

Dark Apostle (WL)

Lucius

Fabius

5 CSM

10 cultists

10 cultists

Hellbrute

Forgefiend - autocannons

Helldrake - autocannon

Venomcrawler

Rhino

 

My agendas:

Reaper

Lord of the Warp - would have gone for Psy-Scry, but I figured we'd be up against it and I needed catalysts every turn. This is guaranteed XP at least. 

Priority Target

 

Long table edge deployment in the Raze and Ruin mission, basically we had to get into one another's DZ and perform an action on the objective. This was going to be an interesting game. We deployed far forwards, and chaos deployed with the characters at the back, isolated, with screens in front. We got the first turn and moved forwards into cover. Cata on Gaunts, nothing else in range. Biovore shot at the Dark apostle who was only near his 2 disciples and 2 spawn, so ineligible for look out sir. Missed, but got a free spore mine. Nothing else.

 

CSM T1

Summoning hell. All characters stayed still and all got 11's on their summon rolls, bringing on 5 fiends, 5 seekers and 10 daemonettes. Lucius took a wound. The helldrake shot forward and shot the biovore, getting 2 wounds through and killing it, but also taking that objective. Few gaunts died from the forgefiend. 

 

Ally t2

Nowhere decent to bring the reserves in, so they jump into the mid table to claim that objective. Lictor moves to our DZ objective so the warriors can move up. Tyrant and cronos move to double team the venomcrawler while the stealers and gaunts shoot forwards to surround the cultists (see explanation below). Tyrant smites and screams 3w off the crawler. Parasitic thing to give my Tyrants Dev's D2, then he puts 12 shots into the fiends, wiping them. HT charges the crawler and knocks off another 3 wounds in melee. Still alive. No damage in return. stealers eat the cultsists and overrun to bile. 

 

CSMT2

Summon another 3 fiends, Keeper of Secrets on a 17, and the Masque. Pfft. I'm way in their DZ, so limited places for the Keeper, who has to go far right. Stuff shoots then charges gaunts, not much else. Krak grenade from bile into stealers misses. Spawn into gargoyles kills a few. 

 

Ally T3

Stealers line up then blend Bile into mush. tyrant moves up, smites and screams seekers, cronos shoots and kills Lucius, Tyrant devourers the daemonettes, killing 4/5 (boooo!), then the last wych champion blast pistols the Masque. At this point, we've killed 2/3 summoning characters, but there's still a Helldrake forgefiend and Keeper on the table, and we're behind on points. We decide to call it as it took 3hours to get to this point, and with the CSM ahead, we gave the win to them! A loss for the Hive fleet, although the only unit to die was the Biovore and spore mines...A tactical loss, but the Hive has tasted Astartes now, and we we'll adapt and overcome. 

 

Reaper - 2 tally both for tyrant and stealers, gave it to stealers

Lord of the Warp - 2xp for tyrant

Priority Target - 2xp to tyrant for crawler kill. 

Opponent awarded MfG to the Biovore out of pity. He'll regret that when it's obsec and can perform actions while shooting, or gets an extra hit on a 6. 

 

Tyrant is now up to 9 XP so can get an advance - torn between an upgrade roll to fish for reroll 1's extra move or regenerate, or giving it relic devourers for bonus mortals on 6's to hit (will be nasty with the reroll 1's). It'll get the Mine Eater warlord trait also. 

 

Deployment after I moved a couple of Gaunts into cover

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After T1 movement

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After T1 movement

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Gargoyles descend T2, while the cronos and Tyrant battle the Venomcrawler behind.

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Stealers and gaunts stream forwards, the hope was to kill the crawler in one round with my tyrant, making Fabius bile the next nearest model, so my stealers could mulch the cultists, then consolidate 2D6" towards bile. As the gaunts also charged the cultists, if the stealers wiped them, the gaunts would also get a 6" pile in toward bile, then a 6" consolidate, giving me loads of stuff in the Chaos DZ. As it was, the crawler didnt die, but the cultists did, so I played the overrun stratagem on the stealers who got a 12" advance after wiping the cultsists. 

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Summoned keeper guarding that corner. 

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#174
WarriorFish

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Interesting with the summoning, narrative games are the most effective place to do it of course but this feels a bit excessive! Suitable for Slaanesh I suppose... Unfortunate that you couldn't complete the game as you were doing well on taking out characters. Good job they didn't have a Master of Possession? I think the mixed army had some advantages over mono, and DE seem to be pretty good now so I think with how you were playing a win could have been on the cards had the game continued but it'll have to remain one for the historians :P

 

The armies looked great on the table which is the most important thing :tu:


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Painting Oaths Completed:
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In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Defiler | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Genestealers


#175
Xenith

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My DE colleague was running a new army so doesn't have too much experience with them, while the CSM force wasn't too optimised, focussed on those characters and daemon engines. I also took a bit of a softer list for this game, which worked out well - If I'd had a unit of hive guard on the table, I think it would have been game over. The characters were all at the back and unprotected, so vulnerable to a single minded annihilation. I think the summoning is a bit of a trap in this army, as he was using 3 good characters to do it, meaning they had zero influence on what happened on the table. I'd agree that if we go to T5 I think we'd have maaaybe won, though it would have been close. Getting a raze action on one of those objectives would have sealed it. What I'm really lacking in this list was more long range, objective flipping ability. I think a mawloc would have worked wonders, T2 it would have popped up and at the Dark Apostle, then it would have been game over. 

 

I'd be keen for a rematch though, and will organise one sometime, maybe when I have a Tervigon on the table. I think if I'd faced this army with my full 60PL roster, I'd have won. 

 

In other news, if you've seen the above post you'll have had a glimpse of the finished gargoyles, but here's some better pics. They're done to TT ready, but just need their eyes, tongues, teeth and carapace blending to finish them off. As you can see I'm working my way through the BroodSwarm and incorporating them into my Crusade army. 

 

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The 'Enhanced Resistance' Hive Guard are also done, I'm really pleased with how they came out. I'll have to get them on the table asap!

 

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Edited by Xenith, Yesterday, 09:40 AM.

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