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A Broken Throne - Legio II - The Lightning Bearers


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#76
simison

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Alright, Legion relics range from 40-50 points and have been represented as pistols, bows, rifles, and various hand-held weapons. The emphasis is on hand-held. What kind of ranged weapon would you like to see?


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#77
bluntblade

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I'm gonna do some digging

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#78
ShadowSwordmaster

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My suggestion is a gunship that are equipped with arc weapons.

Edited by ShadowSwordmaster, 23 February 2018 - 06:27 PM.


#79
bluntblade

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Thing is, volkite was always the main flavour that Athrawes gave the Lightning Bearers, and I'm giving Telesto whacking big arc weapons, so don't want to overdo that.

Legion relics in the Black Books aren't under a specific title are they? They just come under Legion-specific wargear.

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#80
simison

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Thing is, volkite was always the main flavour that Athrawes gave the Lightning Bearers, and I'm giving Telesto whacking big arc weapons, so don't want to overdo that.

Legion relics in the Black Books aren't under a specific title are they? They just come under Legion-specific wargear.

 

Book 4, Page 222-227


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#81
bluntblade

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Cheers. Wondering about just going full Star Wars and having an Arc Gauntlet.

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#82
Nomus Sardauk

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Cheers. Wondering about just going full Star Wars and having an Arc Gauntlet.


Didn't we already have this for the Warbringers? The Gauntlet of Zalmos the Thunderer?

Formerly SanguiniusReborn, proud creator of the Scarlet Sentinels, my 18th Century British Redcoat Chapter and the Steel Legion, my Cyberpunk-inspired Lost Legion and part of the Broken Throne Alternate Heresy Project!

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#83
bluntblade

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I was not aware.

Maybe something more Warp-inflected or esoteric, then?

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#84
ShadowSwordmaster

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Thing is, volkite was always the main flavour that Athrawes gave the Lightning Bearers, and I'm giving Telesto whacking big arc weapons, so don't want to overdo that.

Legion relics in the Black Books aren't under a specific title are they? They just come under Legion-specific wargear.

Fair enough.

#85
bluntblade

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Question is, what should we call the Fire Raptor variant?

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#86
Beren

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Cloud Dancer/Stalker/Walker?

#87
bluntblade

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Something Falcon, I'm thinking

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#88
Doctor Perils

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Cheers. Wondering about just going full Star Wars and having an Arc Gauntlet.

Didn't we already have this for the Warbringers? The Gauntlet of Zalmos the Thunderer?
That may have been discussed at one stage, but I can't remember where tbh. Also, I'm not sure if it still really fits with the Warbringers themes if I'm being completely honest - I'd be entirely fine giving the Harbingers such a relic :)
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#89
bluntblade

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Cool :)

Now, seeing as the gunship will just be a Fire Raptor with a different armament, Fire Raptor Eradicator?

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#90
Beren

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What exactly are it's capabilities and combat role?

#91
bluntblade

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Same as the Fire Raptor, but with a fancier armament

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#92
Nomus Sardauk

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Actually now that I think about it, me and Hesh have each already brainstormed something for this a while ago, back in the MDRC thread:

Roc?

The Cinder Roc, to give it it's full title, is a Volkite variant of the Fire Raptor brainstormed by our brother and mutual BotL member Hesh Kadesh back towards the start of this thread, here's the post:

Spoiler


I also developed a Volkite variant called the Ash Phoenix (alongside a Volkite Pred dubbed the Cremator) much later into the thread which you can see here if you like:

Spoiler

Edited by SanguiniusReborn, 23 February 2018 - 09:02 PM.

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#93
bluntblade

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YES. HAVING THAT.
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#94
Nomus Sardauk

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Oh yeah, and there's that Volkite Predator Tank I did too, forgot about that.

Formerly SanguiniusReborn, proud creator of the Scarlet Sentinels, my 18th Century British Redcoat Chapter and the Steel Legion, my Cyberpunk-inspired Lost Legion and part of the Broken Throne Alternate Heresy Project!

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#95
bluntblade

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Legion Rite of War: The Madrigalan Toaster

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#96
Hesh Kadesh

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Spoiler


Well I'll be, I remember that. I stayed away from the C'vile due to the sensibility of its line effect being rather annoying to resolve as a flyer. Coukd possibly see it being mounted in a Thunderhawk Variant though. Also rule gore on that Incendiary Interdiction. Urgh. I could have worded that better.

Edited by Hesh Kadesh, 24 February 2018 - 12:43 AM.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#97
bluntblade

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So what changes should be made to the Ash Phoenix?


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#98
simison

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Ash Phoenix

 

Comparison Base: Fire Raptor Gunship (200 points)

 

Attributes

 

  • N/A

 

Total: 0 points

 

Wargear

 

  • 1x Nose-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Chieorovile.: ? points
  • 2x Turret-Mounted Quad Volkite Culverins: ? points

 

Total: ? points

 

Special Rules

  • N/A

 

Total: ? points

 

Total cost: ? points

 

Recommend overall cost: ? points

 

Notes: 

 

  • So, I'm already stuck. What's a Volkite Chieorovile? And where can I find its rules?

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#99
Hesh Kadesh

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Missed up the C'vile with the Carronade. The C'vile is a Knight-Styrix weapon; 45", Heavy 5 Deflagrate, S8, AP3. The Demi-Culverin is a Solar-Auxilia Leman Russ turret; 45", S7, AP5 Heavy 5 Deflagrate. The rules for both are in the Crusade Imperialis Army List.

 

Given that the Bolt Cannon is a Heavy 7 S6 AP3, the AP3 niche is already filled. The C'vile is a straight upgrade; but getting the balancing right so that it's not overcosted when it does the same job, but better (no FNP/Instagib 2 wound MEQ's) is going to be a bit of an issue. From a meta-perspective of in an army, is someone going to use the Fire Raptor over the Ash Phoenix?

 

The Demi-Culverin however means that the Ash Phoenix is more akin to a specialised Volkite user, bringing the most amount of Volkite, dedicated to one particular task. It is still excellent at gibbing through Army units with 5 Heavy 7 Ap5 shots; Twin-linked like the Leman Russ Incinerator. It makes it better at it's own niche. I think Quad Culverin's are a bit too much. 

 

In comparison; 210pts for the Fire Raptor, vs a proposed Ash Phoenix

- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots

- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

 

If we make it with Quad Culverin's

- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots

- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

 

I honestly think the Twin-Linked C'vile shouldn't be a thing; compare the size of a C'vile next to the Bolt Cannon on a Knight-chassis here. The Cerastus-Castigator has the same Bolt Cannon as the Fire Raptor. The Demi Culverin meanwhile, is actually a Twin-linked Weapon. self contained in itself; using this as a Twin-linked Weapon is more fitting. Also cheaper to make should some one fancy cutting up a Leman Russ Incinerator (it's still a Leman Russ, and it's easier to use the Leman Russ to make another vehicle - admittedly, a Knight Styrix without the C'vile can become a Mageara. 

 

Personally, I feel that the Demi-Culverin, rather than C'vile, and that the Twin-linked Culverins, rather than Quad Culverin's should be taken. Mainly again, for balance purposes, but also for ease of conversion; the housing for the Autocannon carries the Culverin well enough.


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Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#100
Grifftofer

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Missed up the C'vile with the Carronade. The C'vile is a Knight-Styrix weapon; 45", Heavy 5 Deflagrate, S8, AP3. The Demi-Culverin is a Solar-Auxilia Leman Russ turret; 45", S7, AP5 Heavy 5 Deflagrate. The rules for both are in the Crusade Imperialis Army List.

Given that the Bolt Cannon is a Heavy 7 S6 AP3, the AP3 niche is already filled. The C'vile is a straight upgrade; but getting the balancing right so that it's not overcosted when it does the same job, but better (no FNP/Instagib 2 wound MEQ's) is going to be a bit of an issue. From a meta-perspective of in an army, is someone going to use the Fire Raptor over the Ash Phoenix?

The Demi-Culverin however means that the Ash Phoenix is more akin to a specialised Volkite user, bringing the most amount of Volkite, dedicated to one particular task. It is still excellent at gibbing through Army units with 5 Heavy 7 Ap5 shots; Twin-linked like the Leman Russ Incinerator. It makes it better at it's own niche. I think Quad Culverin's are a bit too much.

In comparison; 210pts for the Fire Raptor, vs a proposed Ash Phoenix
- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots
- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.
- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

If we make it with Quad Culverin's
- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots
- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.
- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

I honestly think the Twin-Linked C'vile shouldn't be a thing; compare the size of a C'vile next to the Bolt Cannon on a Knight-chassis here. The Cerastus-Castigator has the same Bolt Cannon as the Fire Raptor. The Demi Culverin meanwhile, is actually a Twin-linked Weapon. self contained in itself; using this as a Twin-linked Weapon is more fitting. Also cheaper to make should some one fancy cutting up a Leman Russ Incinerator (it's still a Leman Russ, and it's easier to use the Leman Russ to make another vehicle - admittedly, a Knight Styrix without the C'vile can become a Mageara.

Personally, I feel that the Demi-Culverin, rather than C'vile, and that the Twin-linked Culverins, rather than Quad Culverin's should be taken. Mainly again, for balance purposes, but also for ease of conversion; the housing for the Autocannon carries the Culverin well enough.


I basically agree with all of this 😁 Nice to see you posting again Hesh.




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