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Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc


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#1
DukeLeto69

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Purpose of this thread is for people to speculate and put forward ideas etc around what is actually going on in Dan Abnett's Inquisitor books, and in particular The Magos and Pariah. There was a lot of speculation on that back in 2012 when Pariah first came out and I would like to revive those discussions.

The very nature of the thread means it will be FULL OF SPOILERS but I suggest we can refrain from using spoiler tags.

BIG WARNING TO ANYONE WHO HAS NOT READ THE MAGOS OR PARIAH - SPOILERS ARE HERE!
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#2
DukeLeto69

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Trawling the various discussions forums there were some really interesting theories posted so I am going to paraphrase some of these below and then add three more of my own.

Now we have The Magos we know for certain(?) that Eisenhorn is not the Yellow King. We also know for certain(?) that Orpheus and The Yellow King are one in the same.

We also know that the Cognitae are creating Graels as vessels who can speak Enuncia. That they want to use these to kill The God Emperor. We also know that they only managed to create eight (the Grael Magent).

We know that the Cognitae could have requested help from the "traitor hosts" which I read as the Traitor Legions (but no indication of which ones).

Theories I have read across different sites include...

1. The Yellow King is Alpharius (or Omegon) due to the similar sounding or corrupted "Orpheus" v "Alpharius"
2. The Yellow King is Ahriman as there are references to the City of Dust, a planet in the Eye (planet of sorcerers) and not being able to go there or the Black Library.
3. The Yellow King is actually The Crimson King Magnus...same references to Ahriman but why change to Yellow?
4. The Yellow King is Lorgar! He wore gold armour and had a golden (yellow) complexion and the Word Bearers are involved!
5. The Yellow King is Lord Inquisitor Rorken!

These are all really interesting theories and I don't discount any of them. However, I will add a few theories of my own regarding the identity of the Yellow King:

1. One of the perpetuals (John Grammaticus is a Psyker and had dealings with the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers before/during HH although it also seems that JG is now a mortal in the HH timeline as of end of Unremembered Empire). In Perihelion Eisenhorn detects his power but says it is young! Is that because he is a perpetual who has recently regenerated/been reborn? Abnett seems to be creating a wider linked mythos so I am sure he will provide more linkages between HH and W40k stories he does (already has with Enuncia and "I am Alpharius" for example).

2. Could the Yellow King be Ravenor? In The Magos Eisenhorn asks "could yellow mean flames? A figure burning head to foot. A symbolic name for someone who has burned through and been transmuted". Ravenor was burned and physically destroyed at the Triumph of Thracian! (And in the GG books Brostin calls fire Mr Yellow).

3. This one is more "out there" - Who is the biggest baddest dude in 40k who is famous for wearing yellow...or is that gold? A Gold wearing powerful psyker who is manipulating and controlling and has revisited Sancour over the millennia in the form of Orpheus (perhaps)? Isn't a "King" a ruler in the same way as an "Emperor"... Could the Yellow King be the God Emperor? Could it be just one of His manifestations (in the same way I think the Solar Priest was in Talon of Horus) and therefore not the full blown concentrated power of Him? Would that explain the reference to a young power by Eisenhorn in Perihelion? Perhaps He felt "young" because he was distant and it was just one aspect of the God Emperor's multi-faceted conscience? Also in The Magos when asked about who the Yellow King is Ravenor says to Eisenhorn "He's been there all the time, since the earliest days of everything"

Edited by DukeLeto69, 13 August 2018 - 07:04 AM.

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#3
DukeLeto69

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Nobody? Only me then LOL! Felt sure some of you folks would be interested in discussing this! Oh well I will turn off the light and close the door on the way out...

#4
Chiwie

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Nobody? Only me then LOL! Felt sure some of you folks would be interested in discussing this! Oh well I will turn off the light and close the door on the way out...


It's a great idea for a thread. Once I read Magos and re-read Pariah I'll try to post something.
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#5
DarkChaplain

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I should re-read Pariah and Ravenor before committing to full speculation, but I had a feeling reading The Magos that it was implied that Gregor knows the Yellow King already, at least tangentially, and would be surprised out of his mind if he found out.

 

As much as I would find it cool to see Ahzek Ahriman involved, I can't really see it, personally. Dan rarely uses those big characters in his Inquisition series. Ahriman is just too big a character to fit into the Helican sub. The same goes for Magnus, tenfold.

 

Rorken could be a possibility, especially since he was made master of the ordos helican, and in a way it would even make sense why he was so reluctant to allow Eisenhorn declared a heretic. But then I always felt that Rorken was too fatherly and more of a bureaucrat to mastermind all the cognitae.

 

The real question to me is still whether or not the Yellow King is somebody who has appeared or been mentioned in the entirety of the Inquisition works before, or is going to be somebody new who Eisenhorn may have had a history with between the books.

 

I do wonder though if Kaspar Hawser will be utilized by Dan over the course of Ravenor vs Eisenhorn. He *did* have a run-in with Great Crusade Cognitae, if I remember correctly, and it might be a cool reference not unlike the Keeler Image.


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#6
Perrin

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I'd love for Kaspar Hawser to come back in some form, but as far as I know he's still in stasis beneath the Fang.

 

I'd echo Dark Chaplain's thoughts that Ahriman, Magnus and Rorken are out for the reasons stated above. Additionally The Yellow King has to be someone we know otherwise there isn't an impact on the reveal.

 

Looking into the real-world mythology of Orpheus, he's probably best known as the guy who went to the underworld to bring his dead wife back but messed up by turning to look at her on the way back. I can't remember where exactly but I'm positive there's a human character in HH that's back story is that his wife died and he travelled the galaxy looking for a way to bring her back. 

 

Was it one of the humans from The Thousand Sons or Crimson King?


Edited by Perrin, 16 March 2018 - 11:14 AM.

 

Wade Garrett, on 21 Nov 2013 - 18:33, said:

I agree with Legatus on the team work issue.

Imagine you're the coach of the Primarch football team, and you want your guys to run a zone defense.

Except Angron is plowing straight up the middle trying to sack the quarterback, Curze is off on the sidelines stabbing the opposing team's mascot, and Alpharius is somehow suddenly the referee.

So much for zone defense.

 


#7
Nineswords

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Great to see this being resurrected again especially since I’ve just finished re reading Pariah again after The Magos.

My initial thoughts which can be read here (https://docs.google...._N-J2tgco0d2250) WARNING: VERY LONG AND FULL OF SPOILERS was shot down by Dan himself in a very lovely email many years ago.

Reading Pariah and The Magos again, no real new information has come to light but there are more questions:

a. In Magos, it is asserted the King in Yellow is someone already introduced in the series possibly as far back as Xenos which makes the Rorken theory delightful but a little too off the bat if you ask me. But there is someone, possibly even ‘dead’ like Quixos who has managed to defy true death and come to haunt Eisenhorn and Ravenor - this bit that made me think this was Ravenor’s appraisal of Quixos in Malleus and The Mystic Path he had fostered - the inquisition may not have purged it in entirety.

b. How come Eisenhorn smiles at the end of Magos but seems to have resumed his featureless face in Pariah?

Edit: reading again, I think the Mystic Path is involved but I don’t know how Quixos fits in it as the Yellow King.

Edited by Nineswords, 16 March 2018 - 01:45 PM.

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+++

'We are the sword of Jaghatai. Had you not created great sins, the Emperor would not have sent a punishment like us upon you.'

 Index Astartes: Storm Sons
+++

‘We estrange our fathers and forsake false brotherhoods. The War God cares not from whence we came, only that we fight.’
The Unbroken: A Renegade Cult of Obliteration

+++


#8
DukeLeto69

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Good to see you guys engaging, thanks.

Nineswords - I remember your very detailed analysis and theories...a great read. Cool that Dan Abnett exchanged emails with you, even if it was to say your theory was wrong.

So from what folks are saying so far it appears you all believe the Yellow King will be someone within the Abnettverse and Inquisitor series as opposed to someone BIGGER from the wider 40k mythos?

You may well be right but personally I am not so sure. The word "Pandemonium" implies that it is a BIG deal and I think we are heading for a BIG climax rather than something that is contained within a sub sector or a sector. But that is just me!

#9
Manchu warlord

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I like the idea of Kasper Hawser as the Yellow King; the 'Yellow' could refer to his single wolf eye.  

 

During one of Hawser's reminiscence, he went into a bibliotheca to search for his friend Navid Murza.  Murza knew a word or two of Enuncia.  Then he died, got blew up by a land mine.  

 

So, then, I have no idea who the Yellow King might be.  Maybe its the mythical Chinese Yellow Emperor or something. 


Insult me again, brother, and theoretically I will punch you in your practical face.

 

 


#10
SchultzChaos

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Couldn't the King be Pontius Glaw, his astral form taking shape within the Eye of Terror or some such? He would be Eisenhorn's greatest enemy, if I get the implication right from the Eisenhorn-trilogy. 


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#11
DarkChaplain

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I think Glaw would be too small. He didn't have the sway to puppeteer the Cognitae. He was powerful, but also new to the game in his day. He couldn't use Enuncia either. There'd be nothing really insidious about it either, if you ask me. Glaw was dispatched once already, his plans foiled multiple times. He got his vengeance in Hereticus. Bringing him back yet again with the evil mastermind tag would be awkward at best.

 

I might have considered Golesh Heldane a more likely candidate for Cognitae, seeing how he had radical tendencies and was generally a douchebag who hated Eisenhorn. But then, we know for a fact how he meets his end in Gaunt's Ghosts.



#12
DukeLeto69

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a. In Magos, it is asserted the King in Yellow is someone already introduced in the series possibly as far back as Xenos which makes the Rorken theory delightful but a little too off the bat if you ask me. But there is someone, possibly even ‘dead’ like Quixos who has managed to defy true death and come to haunt Eisenhorn and Ravenor - this bit that made me think this was Ravenor’s appraisal of Quixos in Malleus and The Mystic Path he had fostered - the inquisition may not have purged it in entirety.

Edit: reading again, I think the Mystic Path is involved but I don’t know how Quixos fits in it as the Yellow King.


Hmmm I interpreted that line in The Magos differently (which just goes to show how open to interpretation some of this is). As I said above...

In The Magos when asked about who the Yellow King is Ravenor says to Eisenhorn "He's been there all the time, since the earliest days of everything"

I didn't take that as meaning since the beginning of this series of books. I literally took "earliest days of everything" as a reference to the W40k setting/mythos as a whole...hence me thinking this is someone bigger and more important to the whole setting rather than an "in series" character.

What is "the mystic path"? Not heard that or missed it?
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#13
Nineswords

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The Mystic Path is the name of the cult that Quixos fostered and was corrupted by.

There’s one big question everyone has missed too: WHO is Lilean Chase? She’s always has been out of reach throughout the entire series.
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+++

'We are the sword of Jaghatai. Had you not created great sins, the Emperor would not have sent a punishment like us upon you.'

 Index Astartes: Storm Sons
+++

‘We estrange our fathers and forsake false brotherhoods. The War God cares not from whence we came, only that we fight.’
The Unbroken: A Renegade Cult of Obliteration

+++


#14
DukeLeto69

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The Mystic Path is the name of the cult that Quixos fostered and was corrupted by.
There’s one big question everyone has missed too: WHO is Lilean Chase? She’s always has been out of reach throughout the entire series.


Aha I had forgotten that.

Who is Lilean Chase...nice one! In Pariah there is a reference to the Silver Countess and how she has the "ear of the Yellow King". Wonder if there is a connection?

#15
RedDragon

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I don't know why but the Silver Countess - Lavish and extravagant - Doesn't quite fit with the mental image of Lilean Chase, for me. None of the Cognitae have been very showy; they're all very capable and very practical, and I think Chase should be the same - Cold, efficient, terrifying.


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#16
Perrin

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Silver Countess could just be a code-name - it doesn't need to be related to her or her behaviour in any way.

 

 

I remembered who it was that researched esoteric matters to bring back their dead wife... Mr Lemuel Gaumon! Better known as Promeus, one of the founders of the Inquisition.

 

Considering that one of the other founders, Moriana, is currently Abaddon's pet seer, I'm really into the idea that Promeus is The Yellow King.

 

He isn't an unknown so the reveal has impact, and it embodies the theme of the entire series in that there's a chance that any Inquisitor can turn Hereticus while still thinking that they're fighting for the greater good (aka Eisenhorn). 

 

Not only that but Promeus believed that the Emperor could be reborn into a human body. The Yellow King has the Cognitae creating grael vessels: "A human soul wrapped in an etheric body...", that are fluent in Enuncia. To me, that sounds like an ideal host body for the Emperor.

 

 

I've fallen for this theory now so it's now my head canon regardless of however many holes are blown in it teehee.gif 


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Wade Garrett, on 21 Nov 2013 - 18:33, said:

I agree with Legatus on the team work issue.

Imagine you're the coach of the Primarch football team, and you want your guys to run a zone defense.

Except Angron is plowing straight up the middle trying to sack the quarterback, Curze is off on the sidelines stabbing the opposing team's mascot, and Alpharius is somehow suddenly the referee.

So much for zone defense.

 


#17
DukeLeto69

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Perrin... Nice theory! Like that one!

#18
FirstSonofHorus

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The obvious answer to me is Cherubael. He is a heavily unresolved element - simply remaining as Eisenhorn's servant seems unfinished.



#19
Manchu warlord

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You guys have such wicked ideas, I wish Dan Abentt is reading this.

 

What if the Yellow King (King in Yellow) is Rogal Dorn?  Wait, no, what if he is Constatin Valdor?  ...  Okay, I give up, neither of these two would fit well as the Yellow Monarch.


Insult me again, brother, and theoretically I will punch you in your practical face.

 

 


#20
Manchu warlord

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Does have any idea what happened to Maud Plyton?  I mean, she was with Ravenor til the end of Ravenor Rogue, and is alive and well.  But somehow, she did not appear in pariah.  Or she just happens to be elsewhere in Sancour when Ravenor and his two girls captured Bequin.  


Insult me again, brother, and theoretically I will punch you in your practical face.

 

 


#21
b1soul

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I want Deathrow's thread to be continued


...the only time I liked the use of "I am Alpharius"
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#22
LetsYouDown

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b. How come Eisenhorn smiles at the end of Magos but seems to have resumed his featureless face in Pariah?

 

I think it's a psychic projection, like how Magnus or the Emperor's faces seem to change based on who's viewing them or how they feel. Beta does not see a smile as she's a blank and can't perceive Eisenhorn's alpha-psyker emotional will being projected. 

 

But also, Eisenhorn hasn't been able to make personal connections for a very long time. Until The Magos, he has had no reason to smile or "project" the impression of a smile.

 

 

edit:

So I've started re-reading Pariah in the wake of The Magos, and something strikes me about the mentions of Saint Orphaeus. 

 

“Such is the power of an Orphaeus to charm souls and change men’s minds with words alone. And why would anyone oppose his will, for his war is a just cause. It is a holy war, a struggle to reclaim and purify the soul of mankind. A perpetual war. A war that must always be fought at the sacred heart of mankind.”
 
Excerpt From: Dan Abnett. “Pariah."

 

What if Orphaeus is Kor Phaeron?

Watch: Kor Phaeron -> Korphaerus -> Orphaeus -> Saint Orphaeus.

Well, maybe not, but it's plausible, right? But, as I read, I'm definitely going to keep my eyes open for anything else that supports or contradicts this. 

 

 

“The Orphaeus of old myth was a musician and a magician. With the power of his music, his song, his very words, he was able to conquer heaven and hell. He took ownership of divine properties and turned them against the divine. By extension, we may surmise that our Orphaeus is learning the properties of the warp, the very empyrean, in order to use them against the warp.”
 

Excerpt From: Dan Abnett. “Pariah.”

 

I wonder if that's legitimate? Or it's the way Kor Phaeron plays up his role in things for his gain, which we've seen in the Lorgar Primarchs book. He would definitely be one to dress up his own descriptions and history. Perhaps by controlling the warp, he's attempting to usurp or... finally and truly control his "son" Lorgar? Who is of course an extremely mighty Daemon Prince, as far as we know.

 

 

“Queen Mab, if you do not know it, is criss-crossed with an irregular scheme of holloways or harrowed paths. They are sacred ways, streets of the vast city that are distinguished because they felt the actual step of Saint Orphaeus when he trod upon this world during his pilgrimage of grace many centuries ago. This was when he had returned from the empyrean of heaven, and brought its gift of fire back with him.”
 

Excerpt From: Dan Abnett. “Pariah.”

 

He was, aside from Lorgar and the few survivors of the Serrated Sun (I think the originals are all dead now?), one of the very first Word Bearers to enter the Eye, when he was exiled to Sicarius in flight from Calth.

 

It's also a character Dan Abnett has written before, in Know No Fear, and a name that an Inquisitor might recognize from ancient texts of the Heresy.


Edited by LetsYouDown, 25 March 2018 - 05:28 PM.

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#23
Nineswords

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Now that's an interesting theory!


+++

'We are the sword of Jaghatai. Had you not created great sins, the Emperor would not have sent a punishment like us upon you.'

 Index Astartes: Storm Sons
+++

‘We estrange our fathers and forsake false brotherhoods. The War God cares not from whence we came, only that we fight.’
The Unbroken: A Renegade Cult of Obliteration

+++


#24
DukeLeto69

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@Letsyoudown I really like that theory too!

Oh man Dan is really playing with us.

I personally hope The Yellow King / Orphaeus is a BIG character. Someone with ramifications for the W40k setting as a whole rather than an "in series" character from the Eisenhorn/Ravenor books.

#25
b1soul

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Kor Phaeron...a mortal man who laid low the Emperor, his primarchs, his entire Imperium




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