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A Broken Throne - The not Nikaea event

A Broken Throne Alternative Heresy Special Project

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16 replies to this topic

#1
Kelborn

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Hey there, brothers and sisters,

 

in here, we will discuss our Nikaea equivalent.

 

Right now, we got the following possible topics:

 

- genedrafting, some Primarchs have a taste for improving their sons

- building empires, some Primarchs have a taste for building their own realms (Ashen Kingdom, Three Fires, Domain of Storms, etc.)

- usage of "destroyer" weapons or rather their excessive use by certain Legions

- the excessive pacifism of a certain Primarch ( tongue.png )

 

 

Further,

 

- what shall happen there

- where shall it take place

- who shall participate

- what would the outcome be

- what consequences does it have

- how shall we name it

 

I'll try to maintain the main decisions in the first post, as well.

 

"Astartes Kingdoms" - list

 

- Ashen Kingdom - Berserkers of Uran

- Three Fires - Iron Bears

- Dominion of Mycaene - Crimson Lions

- Domain of Storms - Predators

- The Oneiron March -

- The Madrigal Sphere - Lightning Bearers

- xxxx - Astral Griffons

- xxxx - Cardinal Guard (possibly?)

 

Decided topics:

Spoiler

 

Cheers,

Kel


Edited by Kelborn, 27 February 2020 - 05:55 PM.

Lost Legion, the Predators                                                     Liber Astartes Swap Challenge 2019   

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#2
Beren

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Personally I'm in favour of it being regarding the 'Astartes Empires', but including aspects of 2 in there in that part of the concerns are about the weapons stockpiles some of these Kingdoms may have. A significant amount of concern should come from the Terran council, and other factions who are concerned by the Astartes' power. Even should the prosecution succeed (which is not guaranteed), I don't think the Astartes kingdoms should be dissolved entirely, but limits upon their further expansion should be laid down as well as possibly partial disarmament (Raktra's Ashen Kingdom in particular being a target.

 

Another thing is that the Mechanicum has a significant issue with the Three Fires, as well as the Grave Stalkers ownership of Lasaris, so they are more likely to weigh in on this.


Edited by Beren, 27 February 2020 - 05:33 PM.


#3
Kelborn

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Valid points.

 

I like the idea of preventing the Astartes kingdoms to become hoards of weapons of mass destruction - even for 40K proportions.

 

Which "kingdoms" do we have?

 

- Ashen Kingdom

- Three Fires

- "Mycaene", not sure if Sig will rename it

- Domain of Storms to some extent, it's not a realm ruled by Andezo but rather a bondship of worlds, etc.

 

There are some from the new Legions, as well, but I'm lacking their names, etc.


Lost Legion, the Predators                                                     Liber Astartes Swap Challenge 2019   

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#4
Doctor Perils

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Oh, I like the idea that the judgement could actually fail. Or not be as final as Nikaea anyway.

I like the idea of it being about judging the domains - examining whether they pose a threat to the Imperium, but also whether they are slowing down the great crusade, or on the contrary potentially empowering the diverse citizens overmuch.

The Oneiron March is a rather important realm, the Madrigal Sphere too. The Astral Griffons maintain an indirect control on a sector through a commercial empire, and IIRC, there was some discussion about the Cardinal Guards' Cathean cult being spread to neighbouring systems
sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#5
Karden

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Oh, I like the idea that the judgement could actually fail. Or not be as final as Nikaea anyway.

I like the idea of it being about judging the domains - examining whether they pose a threat to the Imperium, but also whether they are slowing down the great crusade, or on the contrary potentially empowering the diverse citizens overmuch.

The Oneiron March is a rather important realm, the Madrigal Sphere too. The Astral Griffons maintain an indirect control on a sector through a commercial empire, and IIRC, there was some discussion about the Cardinal Guards' Cathean cult being spread to neighbouring systems

i like the idea of the council failing from what i've seen is that the council always ends up passing, it failing would give it a unique twist 


Edited by Karden, 27 February 2020 - 06:21 PM.


#6
FunkyMonkey

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I agree with the Astartes Kingdoms angle.  Make the primary proponents of our Nikea be the mortals.  The conflict of an Imperium rule by mortals as per the Emperor's intention and an Imperium run by Astartes could also tie us into Ullanor, as that was part of Horus's grievance against the Emperor, and at least to me, is a key point of contention for traitor Astartes.



#7
Uberlord Gendo

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I'm thinking Azothastra's control is more tacit as his influence comes mainly from infrastructure and environmental projects aimed at producing "gardens". This would mean that the Gwinkrong temple-corporations are the ones doing the actual work and interfacing directly with the Administratum, Mechanicum, Exertus Imperialis, etc etc. While never intended to be a personal realm, Azothastra can cut off vital supplies should local rulers displease him and I'm thinking this indirect means of control should survive Nikea since it's essentially corporate/economic influence and while Azothastra may be formally removed from his position on the Board of Directors equivalent (need to workshop names), he's still the foremost influence on Gwinkrong.

Anyway, even if Azothastra doesn't intend to exploit this loop hole, I imagine he'll piss people off, which is definitely a good thing, particularly if in the power vacuum caused by the edict, the temple-corporations move to fill the role that Kozja had filled.

#8
bluntblade

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Possibly if the "Kingdoms" remain intact, that could push some of the Primarchs toward supporting the coup.


Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

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#9
MikhalLeNoir

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What about tying the kingdoms to a downsizing of the legions. The legions are too powerful and need a donwgrade. Jowever, before that can happen, our story unfolds

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#10
Uberlord Gendo

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Perhaps even rumors of the imposition of something like the codex reforms as the crusade draws to an end and strategy changes? It's nonsense-- the legions will be needed to take Comorragh, but anything to piss people off.

#11
Brother Tholath

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I wonder if points about subtle control would be brought up as well though. Having legions be able to have no empires but still basically directly control a world is an issue



#12
MikhalLeNoir

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the legions should be kept on a leash. primarchs are subordinate to the imperator and the high senate of terra. no legion should have territory and the legions should be split into smaller forces

Edited by MikhalLeNoir, 02 March 2020 - 07:41 PM.

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#13
Brother Tholath

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But should legions have subtle control over worlds they bring into the fold, not just obvious. I'd personally say the latter is less of an issue that the first. At least if something is taken into the Three Fires, you know who it is who is govening it (from the legions point of view)

 

If you have legions going round bring words into the fold, but leaving strings to still pull the world the direction they want without it being part of their sub-empire" then you have more issues because you don't know who might actually have control over worlds



#14
Beren

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Didn't we have the Three Fires hit hard during one of the Rangdan incidents? Perhaps we could have supporters of the Astartes territories point to how it acted as a bulkwark against the threat?



#15
Kelborn

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The closest thing we got is Ultramar where Astartes were established as rulers/ protectors.


I can see some of our realms being treated like that, for example Madrigal or Three Fires.
Others would be more of a protective role, without any direct influence in politics like the Preds' Domain of Storms. Only taking recruits, etc.

Other could be more oppressive, squeezing their realms until they're dried out in ressources and such. Ashen Kingdom maybe.

So either we differentiate between how every Legion treats their realm or it's a General decision. If the latter, more indulgent Primarchs would be upset for being treated equally to the likes of their more "brutal" brothers, which then could feed into the rebellion/ renegade cause, etc.

Lost Legion, the Predators                                                     Liber Astartes Swap Challenge 2019   

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#16
bluntblade

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Didn't we have the Three Fires hit hard during one of the Rangdan incidents? Perhaps we could have supporters of the Astartes territories point to how it acted as a bulkwark against the threat?


Yep, and I think it would be held up as a well-governed realm.

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

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#17
MikhalLeNoir

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I meant this should be the debate. The primarchs should bow before the high lords or the administration of terra. Some see no problem. Some see a problem. This will cause a lot of problems for the throneverse primarchs which will be interesting to solve

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