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Starting Sisters of Battle? (like me?) ask questions here!


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#51
ThePenitentOne

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OK another noob question here:

 

I've heard inquisitors mentioned with respect to being included in a SoB army. Where do I find the datasheet for these, and what are the rules for integrating them into a battle forged SoB army without losing the varioius orderly buffs, sacred rites, etc?

 

There are two ways to use Inquisitors with sisters: attach one Inquisitor to any of your existing sisters detachment as a slotless HQ or take an allied Inquisitorial detachment (which could include no more than a single Inquisitor). You could also do both of these things, allowing you two field two Inquisitors without taking multiple Inquisition detachments; this also allows one of your Inquisitors to have a retinue. I'll start with things that are common to each of these approaches, then I will talk about the specifics of each.

 

So the reason Inquisition and Sisters are thematically related is that once upon a time in GW Lore, the SOB's role as chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus was front and centre. These days, that lore has been shunted to the background in order to create design space for the Ecclesiarchy, but the connections are still there in the lore- they're just more subtle. From this perspective, Greyfax and Karamazov are excellent named choices for inclusion in a Sisters army. Aesthetically, Greyfax resonates with the feminine mystique of sisters, but Karamazov resonates with the aesthetic of both Penitent Engines and Mortifiers. It is a dream of mine to one day field Karamazov with three full squadrons of morties and pennies, including all the anchorite upgrades. A generic Hereticus Inquisitor is also nice, especially in Crusade, where the customization potential is greater than it is with named characters.

 

A third fluffy choice is Draxus- especially if you are playing in the Pariah setting. My sisters are such purists, they could not tolerate Stern's Eldar buddy without Draxus there to run interference for him like the radical that she is. The relationships here are cannon, as is the coneection between Greyfax and Celestine via Gathering Storm.

 

Though I've walked you through the "Fluffiest Fit," it's worth noting that there is no reason that Sisters can't ally with less fluffy Inquisitorial choices.

 

Either way, consider the Inquisition strat Arbiter of the Emperor's Will. This allows any Inquisitor who is not your Warlord to take a WL trait, and if the Inquisitor is generic, you also get a relic for free. In Crusade, any character can take a WL trait anyway, so in that game, Arbiter is only worth the requisition point if the Inquisitor is generic; if the Inquisitor is named, it makes just as much sense to just burn the RP for the WL trait. Greyfax's WL trait is great for synergizing with close combat and drop units because she can lock survivors into combat which protects your Sisters units from being shot to pieces in the enemy's following turn. Karamazov's WL trait isn't as good for sisters, because they're already pretty good at the morale game. Kyria's trait is good, but it only applies to her, so there's no synergy with any particular Sisters unit.

 

The Execution Bombardment strat is crazy expensive, but it's a powerful option in big games where you have CP to spare; Strategic Excrutiation is cheap, and excellent for small games where extra CP give you a huge advantage, especially when combined with the Mental Interrogation psychic power, and even more especially when we're dealing with Greyfax and Bloody Rose drop units. Other honourable mentions include the Alpha Class Psyker strat and the Psychic Mastery WL Trait; these help make up for Sisters inherently weak psychic offense game. All of these options work well, no matter how you incorporate the Inquisitor. 

 

Okay, now let's talk about the characteristics that apply only when you attach Inquisitors to existing SOB detachments.

 

In this scenario, it isn't possible to take other Inquisition units such as Acolytes, Jokaero or Daemonhosts (unless you sneak one in via Eisenhorn's special rules- and in my fluffy, pure army, that's heresy). This can cut down on your ability to Sniper Proof your Inquisitor with Acolytes. Celestians can only bodyguard for <Order> characters. Personally, I think that should be changed to Sororitas and Ministorum at the very least; this would allow them to bodyguard for Hospitallers, Dialogi, Missionaries and Preachers. I'd also like to see them bodyguard for Hereticus, but like I said, they de-emphasized the Order Militant relationship, so this last wish is very unlikely. That means Acolytes are any Inquisitor's only protection against snipers, and you can't take acolytes for attached Inquisitors.

 

In this scenario, the Inqusition Strat: To the Exclusion of All Else is particularly useful as it grants the Inquisitor's Quarry rule to an Imperial unit, which helps the Sisters FEEL more like a Chamber Militant. Ditto for the Warding Incantation psychic power, but that's a Malleus power. By the same token, powers that affect only Ordo units are useless, since the Inquistor(s) using the power are the only Ordo units on the table. This takes out quite a few options- the Psychic Pursuit and Psychic Veil psychic powers and the Clandestine Operation Strat- all of which are pretty awesome, and will be missed if you choose this method to include an Inquisitor.

 

They final benefit of including an Inquisitor this way is that you get to keep BOTH your Order traits AND your Sacred Rites, though neither will apply to the Inquisitor.

 

Now let's talk about including an allied Inquisition detachment. First, it kills your Sacred Rites, but it does leave Order Traits intact. Obviously, it costs you CP to include this detachment, and it will have to be a Vanguard.

 

Obviously, it puts the Ordo specific buffs mentioned above back on the table, and all of the buffs listed above as being particularly suitable for attached Inquisitors are still equally effective for allied detachments. But for me, what really shines in this method is what happens in Crusade games, where any character can have a WL trait. Because ALL Inquisition units either are characters or have the option to be characters. That's right, WL traits for your Jokaero and Solo Acolytes, as well as your Daemonhosts if you're enough of a Heritic to include them.

 

The final approach, a Hybrid between allied detachment and attached Inquisitors allows you to tweak your force to get as many of the advantages land mitigate as many of the disadvantages listed above. For example, if both Inquisitors are of the same Ordo, Acolytes from the Inquisition detachment can be used as bodyguards for the attached Inquisitor.

 

A final note: in either system, you can include more than one Ordo in an army, but doing so is only really fluffy under certain circumstances; Hereticus + Xenos is fluffy against GSC. Malleus + Hereticus is fluffy for a Chaos army that includes both Cultists and Daemons. It's harder to fluff Xenos + Hereticus, and it's very hard to fluff all three together.


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#52
Lemondish

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To add just a small bit to the excellent deep dive above, all Inquisition rules can currently be found in Psychic Awakening: Pariah.

#53
Dread

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@thepentinentone. This is bar none one of best break downs and comparisons I've read. It should be stickied. I've always been a puriest with my sisters, would only ever consider taking an Inquistor in an army but you've actually opened my eyes to more with the inquisition. Very well written, easy to understand. Thank you for the time you spent on this.
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#54
SkimaskMohawk

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I've had 40 battle sisters Nib and the heavy weapon retributors on sprue since June and am finally getting around to assembling stuff.

I was planning on doing either argent shroud or ebon chalice rules with my own custom order, so was thinking of a bunch of battle sister squads with inferno pistol and double storm bolters. I'd wanted multimelta rets, but the box annoyingly only has 2 and the battle sisters only come with HB and HF, so it'll be one of the latter two. Assuming I go say 6 squads of 5 battle sisters and fill out the rets, what should I do with the left over 8 girls? Dominions? Simulacra?

Also, for anti-tank, should I go exorcists, mm rets or mm immolators? I'm leaning towards the immolator because it gets the heavy bolter for a bit more flexibility and can transport small units around. Just a little worried about having too much of either horde clearing or dedicated AT.

#55
DarkMark

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I'll ask in here as its probably not thread worthy. It is wise to pick up the codex, or is a new one expected soon?

 

I don't play at all, so, the book would really just be for the lore and artwork. I'd hate to buy the codex now and it be updated with new material.unsure.png



#56
Closet Skeleton

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No one knows. It was the last 8th ed codex so one might assume its at the back of the que but it doesn't always work that way.

 

There are possibly 18 codexes and we're getting at most 2 a month so it could be 3-9 months.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 19 October 2020 - 07:09 AM.


#57
9x19 Parabellum

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I mean...if lore and art are your preferred reasons, I would get it, sure.  The "outdatedness" is a concept that really only applies to the datasheets, and so if you're not playing, who cares?

 

While they use a lot of the same stories and art, they also put different/new stuff into different codexes, so I'd get both.


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#58
Indefragable

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Make sure you get a physical or digital (ePub) version of the codex...the current one available in the Wh40k app is just rules. Disappointed by that fact since I subscribed (for now)  just for it, so just a heads up.


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#59
Indefragable

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EDIT: post deleted, had information wrong


Edited by Indefragable, 01 November 2020 - 05:45 AM.

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#60
DarkMark

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Righto, thanks for the heads up. 

 

BTW, I'm hoping to have some 3rd party sisters to show before the new year. The prep work is killing me especially as my hobby time has been so limited of latedown.gif . If you like, check my gallery for what I'm putting together. Expect a post in the thread I started when there's something meaningful to show. 



#61
Indefragable

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Do special characters have fixed WLT's? Again, working off the :cuss official App, so it's not helpful with such things. 

 

Specifically, I am wondering about St. Celestine and the Triumph of St. Katherine. 


Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#62
toaae

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Do special characters have fixed WLT's? Again, working off the censored.gif official App, so it's not helpful with such things. 
 
Specifically, I am wondering about St. Celestine and the Triumph of St. Katherine.


Yes, they do. Celestine has to take Beacon of Faith, The Triumph has to take Pure of Will, and Junith has to take Inspiring Orator.


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#63
Osteoclast

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Am I right in my reading that a Retributor Superior can have both a power maul and a combi-weapon?


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#64
Maschinenpriester

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Am I right in my reading that a Retributor Superior can have both a power maul and a combi-weapon?


Yes you are correct.
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#65
9x19 Parabellum

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...and they can also have a special pistol (inferno).

 

Also, Indefragable, note that while the warlord traits for special characters are fixed, they don't HAVE to be your warlord.  So you could have Celestine and a generic Canoness, and the Canoness would be your warlord, at which point you'd pick your trait as normal (and Celeste would not get her warlord trait because in this scenario she's not your warlord).


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#66
Indefragable

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...and they can also have a special pistol (inferno).

 

Also, Indefragable, note that while the warlord traits for special characters are fixed, they don't HAVE to be your warlord.  So you could have Celestine and a generic Canoness, and the Canoness would be your warlord, at which point you'd pick your trait as normal (and Celeste would not get her warlord trait because in this scenario she's not your warlord).

Hiding some inferno pistols throughout could be interesting, 

 

And, yes thank you for pointing that out. I planned on running Canoness as WL.


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#67
Indefragable

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Something I've been stewing over: 

 

Melta guns on Celestians. 

 

Seems a bit expensive and short range, but between their re-roll all To Hit and the chance to re-roll all To Wound with their Strat, I feel like there's a sneaky play here. They can't take melee weapons, but 2x melta + Combi-Melta feels like an opportunity to pop enemy characters or other multi-wound enemies crashing the line, and that's before we get into Miracle Dice shenanigans (flat D:6 on an enemy character, anyone?) 

 

I plan on having a beatstick Canoness (Smash Sister? Smash Nun? Sister Smash?) with Iron Surplice + Blessed Blade and the 5+++ from Valorous Heart with Celestians nearby to absorb wounds...but hiding some melta shots in there could be useful as well it feels. If they're going to be up close and personal anyways. 


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#68
Lemondish

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Something I've been stewing over:

Melta guns on Celestians.

Seems a bit expensive and short range, but between their re-roll all To Hit and the chance to re-roll all To Wound with their Strat, I feel like there's a sneaky play here. They can't take melee weapons, but 2x melta + Combi-Melta feels like an opportunity to pop enemy characters or other multi-wound enemies crashing the line, and that's before we get into Miracle Dice shenanigans (flat D:6 on an enemy character, anyone?)

I plan on having a beatstick Canoness (Smash Sister? Smash Nun? Sister Smash?) with Iron Surplice + Blessed Blade and the 5+++ from Valorous Heart with Celestians nearby to absorb wounds...but hiding some melta shots in there could be useful as well it feels. If they're going to be up close and personal anyways.


I went with a multi-melta, because even with movement they are actually going to hit very reliably when near a Canoness, and it doubles the range for half your melta shots. I did this for two such squads and I absolutely love it.
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#69
Indefragable

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Something I've been stewing over:

Melta guns on Celestians.

Seems a bit expensive and short range, but between their re-roll all To Hit and the chance to re-roll all To Wound with their Strat, I feel like there's a sneaky play here. They can't take melee weapons, but 2x melta + Combi-Melta feels like an opportunity to pop enemy characters or other multi-wound enemies crashing the line, and that's before we get into Miracle Dice shenanigans (flat D:6 on an enemy character, anyone?)

I plan on having a beatstick Canoness (Smash Sister? Smash Nun? Sister Smash?) with Iron Surplice + Blessed Blade and the 5+++ from Valorous Heart with Celestians nearby to absorb wounds...but hiding some melta shots in there could be useful as well it feels. If they're going to be up close and personal anyways.


I went with a multi-melta, because even with movement they are actually going to hit very reliably when near a Canoness, and it doubles the range for half your melta shots. I did this for two such squads and I absolutely love it.

 

 

Too bad I already have my MM's in Retributor squads.


Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#70
Indefragable

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Something I've been stewing over:

Melta guns on Celestians.

Seems a bit expensive and short range, but between their re-roll all To Hit and the chance to re-roll all To Wound with their Strat, I feel like there's a sneaky play here. They can't take melee weapons, but 2x melta + Combi-Melta feels like an opportunity to pop enemy characters or other multi-wound enemies crashing the line, and that's before we get into Miracle Dice shenanigans (flat D:6 on an enemy character, anyone?)

I plan on having a beatstick Canoness (Smash Sister? Smash Nun? Sister Smash?) with Iron Surplice + Blessed Blade and the 5+++ from Valorous Heart with Celestians nearby to absorb wounds...but hiding some melta shots in there could be useful as well it feels. If they're going to be up close and personal anyways.


I went with a multi-melta, because even with movement they are actually going to hit very reliably when near a Canoness, and it doubles the range for half your melta shots. I did this for two such squads and I absolutely love it.

 

 

Too bad I already have my MM's in Retributor squads.

 

 

Goonhammer has some interesting setups, including almost 20x Celestians with melta in a Bloody Rose list. 

 

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Edited by Indefragable, 06 November 2020 - 04:27 AM.

Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#71
Aqui

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#72
SkimaskMohawk

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I feel (from a complete theory-hammer point of view) that the goonhammer article suffers from it being pre-season changes. The shooting got so much stronger across the board and melta got such a boost that I feel bloody rose is better used as an addition to a list rather than the core. And celestians are hard to sell over repentia for melee or zepherym or seraphim.

I also found it weird how few troops they included.

#73
Lemondish

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I feel (from a complete theory-hammer point of view) that the goonhammer article suffers from it being pre-season changes. The shooting got so much stronger across the board and melta got such a boost that I feel bloody rose is better used as an addition to a list rather than the core. And celestians are hard to sell over repentia for melee or zepherym or seraphim.

I also found it weird how few troops they included.


The Celestials aren't replacements, they're additions. They aren't meant to be there instead of Repentia.

I've been running a similar list to the mono-BR one above with serious success.

#74
Indefragable

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The more I think about it the more I like 2x melta+combi-melta on Celestians and Storm bolters on Dominions. Since SoB don't have much long range shooting beyond the Exorcist, in my mental calculations we need as much melta as we can fit into lists to get the most mileage out of things for when we finally close the distance with the enemy. 


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#75
SkimaskMohawk

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I feel (from a complete theory-hammer point of view) that the goonhammer article suffers from it being pre-season changes. The shooting got so much stronger across the board and melta got such a boost that I feel bloody rose is better used as an addition to a list rather than the core. And celestians are hard to sell over repentia for melee or zepherym or seraphim.

I also found it weird how few troops they included.

The Celestials aren't replacements, they're additions. They aren't meant to be there instead of Repentia.

I've been running a similar list to the mono-BR one above with serious success.

Well the context of my comparison was in an additional detachment as I said I believed speed and maneuverability was more valuable than straight up killing. So they would be competing against repentia and the jump units in those small detachments. If I'm over-valuing argent shrouds speed and mono bloody rose lists can just hammer stuff in while still capping objectives then that's great too.

I guess I focussed a lot on the articles talk of the full combo celestian with preacher, imagifier, cannoness and two strats for 40 str 4 with rerolls and +1 to wound. Its a low output combo that takes too much of a commitment.




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