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New Thousand Sons units for 9th?

- - - - - speculating...

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#51
The Blood Raven

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I generally agree with Ahzek451 that GW may have a vision and design direction for this faction with unique units that aren't from a fantasy game. I am however, skeptical that such a major release is due anytime soon, or even this edition. Time will tell. Until then, I am not seeing me picking up any more existing units nor playing much with the collection I have.



#52
Ahzek451

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Agreed, as hopeful as my post may have come off, I too do not expect anything anytime soon or even this edition(which would be a shame...9th edition...sacred number and all). Maybe we get a trickle, maybe a big release. My gut tells me this edition we will get a nice codex update with little to zero new units/models. Something in-line with death guard with some decent rule updates, army gimmicks, streamlined cult rules, boosted magnus, etc. 

 

Just...please don't nuke Ahriman. I would love to see some incentive to have non-auto include Ahriman (and princes) armies. But not at the cost of nuking my favorite character. 


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#53
The Blood Raven

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I believe that an army/faction needs a "champion" in the studio to make a good, balanced codex. I haven't seen that champion and to date believe the reason for Thousand Sons to exist is to be a punching bag for Space Wolves or the next primaris release. 

 

I certainly hope that the studio does look at the newer lore and use that to drive a new vision for the faction, not merely adding traditional CSM units.


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#54
Ahzek451

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I believe that an army/faction needs a "champion" in the studio to make a good, balanced codex. I haven't seen that champion and to date believe the reason for Thousand Sons to exist is to be a punching bag for Space Wolves or the next primaris release. 

 

I certainly hope that the studio does look at the newer lore and use that to drive a new vision for the faction, not merely adding traditional CSM units.

Heh, very true. I remember when GW was more vocal about who wrote what codex. These days it is just "the team". But I think it still comes down to 1-2 guys leading a codex and consulting everyone as needed. But yeah, I think it is a combination of not having a "champion" as the blood raven put it, and...I can empathize with anyone that gets pinned to write the rules for a 100% psychic army. I think the general thought is to be be super cautious as the concept is somewhat new and unique. For many years, eldar and grey knights were the "psychic codex".

 

It can be intimidating. There is a whole new dimension of synergy as an entire army can freely choose which ability it can use and share on another unit. Where as most armies have a dedicated model to that specific ability and can be easier to account for when balancing. 


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#55
The Blood Raven

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Well, they threw out the sorcerer war band model for army design with Wrath of Magnus. I thought they'd a plan for the army to be rethought then, but it has been years since that happened.

 

I'm probably just whining. After all, I am playing a faction with 8 units in its codex, but it seems well thought out and fun to play. Maybe because as a faction, it breaks a lot of core rules rather than numerous rules doled out to specific units.



#56
Marshal Loss

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Things I'd like to see:

  • Psychic automata
  • Psychic dreadnought
  • Some kind of daemon engine
  • A TS-specific Terminator lord/Sorcerer, ala LoC/LoV

bRxSYDV.png


#57
WarriorFish

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I was thinking style/role wise yes, the robots fit that as a more sci-fi version and GW can easily base them on something 30k as the lore source :) Sons have the automata theme already so it makes sense to expand on this. If a sorcerer can control some Rubrics he can control some robots too (especially if they have some daemonic aspect or other Dark Mechanicus nefariousness etc). Something unique to Sons would go far in expanding the codex.


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#58
Tokugawa

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I believe that an army/faction needs a "champion" in the studio to make a good, balanced codex. I haven't seen that champion and to date believe the reason for Thousand Sons to exist is to be a punching bag for Space Wolves or the next primaris release. 
 
I certainly hope that the studio does look at the newer lore and use that to drive a new vision for the faction, not merely adding traditional CSM units.

 

And not merely adding AOS Tzaangor units.
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#59
sarabando

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more thousand sons less tanzigors please.


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#60
Wolf Lord Loki

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If I had a suggestion it would be modifying possessed.

Each god's daemons have something different and Tzentch daemons are the only one with a ranged attack.

So drop 1 attack from the profile and give them a shooting attack like the Flamers
If you get a greater possessed make it so they have a daemonic psychic ability.

Possibly do a thousand sons frontplate for the hellbrute that ties in the 30k and 40k asthetics that can be a psychic dread (or get the Osiran dread ported over from 30k
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#61
Skerr

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Hi everyone. Long time no post or lurk and looking to get caught up with 1k Sons. I started a Custodes and Sisters of Silence (don't worry, no wolves) last May but knew I'd come back to the thrall one day.

For me I have always wanted a few things.

Robust, versatile, effective spells.
Unique functions for Exalted such as choice of auras and character status sounds cool.
More demonesque Vindicator and Predator options
Heavy warp flamer and heavy inferno bolter options for tanks and brutes.
Cultist arcane thrall ritual boosting
Icon of Flame boosts.
Efficient summoning.
Familiar options for various Sorcerers.
Vortex beast tweaks (not sure)
Durable Rubricae.
Durable Magnus.

Some other good ideas here.

#62
JeffJedi

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I think there needs to be more Rubrics.
Ecto-Plasma gun squad
Close Combat squad
Death Guard like lesser characters

#63
Archaeinox

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If if if if (if) we get a range update for our codex release, I don't think we can expect infantry kits but of course I am ready to be surprised. 

 

If anything happens for new kits it would probably be some sort of armored support on top of all the Tzeentch crap ported into 40k. 


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#64
Castellan Wulfrik

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I agree with the 30K imports and other additions based around the legion, importing CSM units isn't the answer and what's really the point playing TS if you're not using TS or Tzeentch specific units. In particular new automata units would be a good way to add new flavour friendly units to the 40K TS without relying on cross compatibility with AoS. Although I think new Tzeentchian fantasy or demon units are probably the most likely significant additions to the army we will see in the future.

 

Out of left field, I think the Tzeentchian endless spells would be a great addition that would add more character and uniqueness to the playstyle and look of the army. How you would actually go about incorporating such summons or spells into the codex is another issue entirely. 



#65
Sonoftherubric21

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If if if if (if) we get a range update for our codex release, I don't think we can expect infantry kits but of course I am ready to be surprised. 

 

If anything happens for new kits it would probably be some sort of armored support on top of all the Tzeentch crap ported into 40k. 

 

That sounds about right. I think we will get some "walker/engine" equivalent. 

 

I don't think we will get more infantry either, though I am hoping we get something for it, perhaps even a simple character for the elites slot the way so many armies have them. "Sorcerer" in the elite slot of some variety, or aura-generation, unique spell or what have you. 



#66
Xenith

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An endless spell type thing would be cool and thematic for a thousand sons army, and a way for GW to sell us models. I'd pay for a 3"x3" warp tornado that I could cast and have persist in my opponents battleline. 

 

There's really no reason not to have Rubric havocs.



#67
Darnok

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Well, both the basic Rubrics as well as the SOT have a sprue layout that could easily be used for variant units. In both kits the basic weapons are on a different sprue - so adding a variant sprue with the rest could build another unit. If I had to guess this was the intention from the very start.



#68
BoomWolf

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It seems to be correct for the Rubrics, but less so for the scarabs who have quite a bit of mandatory body part on the second sprue, and a bit of the primary sprue spent on heavy weapons.

 

The problem with the rubrics is the 10-body nature of the sprue leads it to be only fitting for another 10-man squad.



#69
Archaeinox

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There's really no reason not to have Rubric havocs.

 

Well, for an army that 'shatters battlements with spells and incantations', we sure dont have a lot of effective long range psychic abilities. 

 

I'd want them to iron out our core psychic abilities before giving more attention to rubricae variants. 

 

"Why not both?"


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#70
Darnok

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It seems to be correct for the Rubrics, but less so for the scarabs who have quite a bit of mandatory body part on the second sprue, and a bit of the primary sprue spent on heavy weapons.

 

The problem with the rubrics is the 10-body nature of the sprue leads it to be only fitting for another 10-man squad.

 

The SOT sprue with the heavy weapons is what you would start with - add the "missing body parts" with a different design on another sprue, plus whatever is needed for a new unit type. I'm not saying that it'd be an ideal situation, just that it could be easily done. Same for the Rubrics.

 

On the other hand: GW seems to shy away from using the same sprues in different kits these days, unless it is not a multi-unit kit to begin with (or a vehicle).


Edited by Darnok, 30 March 2021 - 06:47 AM.


#71
Ahzek451

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There's really no reason not to have Rubric havocs.

 

Well, for an army that 'shatters battlements with spells and incantations', we sure dont have a lot of effective long range psychic abilities. 

 

I'd want them to iron out our core psychic abilities before giving more attention to rubricae variants. 

 

"Why not both?"

 

BINGO

Although, its a 40k trope right? Everyone has a weapon or ability that does a lot more in the novels than on the tabletop. Never more apparent than with the Thousand Sons, because as we all know, why a predator when we have powers? 

I get it though, GW has to balance the game but I think most of us are on the same page for wanting a more diverse toolbox of powers. Personally, I would prefer more/better ones that involve turning enemy weapons against themselves. 

"I don't need a lascannon...I'll just use yours!"



#72
Archaeinox

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I'd love to see a return of puppetmaster. It should be a thing, straight up. That will fill an anti-armor gap. 

 

Again, stuff like that is tame compared to what some factions get even as powerful holdovers from their 8th books..


Edited by Archaeinox, 30 March 2021 - 08:47 PM.

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#73
Xenith

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"I don't need a lascannon...I'll just use yours!"

 

 

And it gets denied half the time teehee.gif

 

I agree there should be more of a focus on stronger psychics, but it just doesnt work in the game. Why should TS have to have a random roll to use someone elses lascannon, which has a chance to be denied, when other armies can just bring their own lascannon for far fewer points? 

 

For actual gameplay, a change to psychic power to be like Major and Minor powers like in 3rd ed would be cool. Imagine if you could replace the 3 minor powers you can cast per turn at the moment with something like a Major Incantation - so one cast per turn, but it's actually catastrophically damaging, like a flat 3D6 Mortals, or you can cast one spell per turn, but it affects evreyone in range, rather than just a target unit. 



#74
WarriorFish

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I agree, the weird and wonderful powers of yester-editions were fun but not particularly viable. Unless Sons get a significant boost to their ability to use psychic powers I don't feel this is a way to improve the codex. By significant I mean stuff like all encompassing improvements like additions to rolls, extra casts or some more spells like Xen mentioned. I'm not sure if even current GW with their willingness to shake things up would go this far?

 

Also as much as this would suit the theme it shouldn't be the army's crutch. Aside from there being ways that can mess with psychic powers the army has Rubrics etc and it's not just to catch bullets for Sorcerers.

 

I'd prefer that there was no focus on doing damage with lots of ways to buff and use your forces. Aside from being more Tzeentchian (mind bullets work, but so does shifting your units around, making them hard to shoot and other shenanigans) I feel this could be a good way to let everyone get what they'd like biggrin.png A few improvements here and there to help with AT and this could be an overall solution that gives the army what it needs.

 

As much as we'd like a new unit I think that radical change to how Sons do psychic powers is more likely right now confused.gif Which is a shame as something as simple as a Rubric Havok squad doesn't need a new kit, but this is how new units come now. I wonder if there's any chance of a piece of terrain?


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In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Defiler | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Genestealers


#75
Ahzek451

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"I don't need a lascannon...I'll just use yours!"

 

 

And it gets denied half the time teehee.gif

 

I agree there should be more of a focus on stronger psychics, but it just doesnt work in the game. Why should TS have to have a random roll to use someone elses lascannon, which has a chance to be denied, when other armies can just bring their own lascannon for far fewer points? 

 

For actual gameplay, a change to psychic power to be like Major and Minor powers like in 3rd ed would be cool. Imagine if you could replace the 3 minor powers you can cast per turn at the moment with something like a Major Incantation - so one cast per turn, but it's actually catastrophically damaging, like a flat 3D6 Mortals, or you can cast one spell per turn, but it affects evreyone in range, rather than just a target unit. 

 

The thousand sons didn't trash all their vehicles, even they know that sometimes they need a little extra non-psyshic means. Think of it more of a bonus when it does go off tongue.png

 

At this point, I wish they would either grab more resources or the right passionate individuals to overhaul how we operate with psychic powers. We all have some great ideas, and I wish GW had a team that tapped into ideas from threads like this. Maybe they do and they just end up going at it on a conservative level. 

I think they are on the right track when it comes to the major psychic armies. Grey knights are not immune to failure, but their overall psychic gameplay is steady and reliable for the most part, albiet a bit boring but to me, that fits the grey knight discipline narrative. Eldar are masters of discipline and so what we see is reliable casting with a decent spell list and one with powers that have 2 modes per power. Flexible, disciplined, and reliable. The craftworld way. 

Now with Thousand sons, I see an opportunity to fit the mindset of...less discipline and more power, think emperor palpatine and "UNLIMITED POWER" but at a higher risk of self destruction. I.e. if thousand sons had something akin to a list or more of powers that were...for the most part no worse or better than average compared to all the armies, BUT we had the option of a stronger version at a higher cost of attempting to cast and/or higher risk of killing ourselves. Almost like our psychic powers were akin to plasma weapons now. We can CHOOSE to use normal low power, but we have the OPTION of taking that risk for a higher payout. This fits our theme, arrogant power hungry sorcerors with the penchant of reaching too deep into the warp in moments of desperation. No discipline or restrictions when it comes to playing with the warp here! 

And that was the fun part, of course I will lazily leave balancing this in GW's lap haha!


Edited by Ahzek451, 01 April 2021 - 02:42 PM.

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    Wolf Lord Loki