Mortis

[Bobss]

Wasn't Fo introduced in Abnett's short story Misbegotten (from the Sons of the Emperor anthology)? That's like three years ago.

 

But Fo's plot to develop a gene-weapon to kill Horus was introduced last April wasn't it mate

[Gongsun Zan]

So I finished this. and I think it's one of those books that is greater than the sum of its parts. Specific plot threads aren't that great (I skimmed the entire Perpetual Arc), but on a big picture level, I think it captures the feel and atmosphere of the Siege, and serves its purpose in moving the Siege to its next phase. 

 

I'd put it above TFW/LATD for sure. 

[Scribe]

 

Frankly Perpetuals shouldn't be handed out to most of GW's writers.

 

Just let Abnett do this thing with them.

Unfortunately, this just leads to "Oh, that's not 'Warhammer', it's 'Abnett-hammer'. (Though I'll admit to feeling like Abnett set up a bunch of subtle/mild 'surprises' in Legion that then became flanderized as the series went on...)

That would be better than people building on his poor foundations. We at least then could ignore it without issue.

 

His ideas flow through and taint the whole series. Just unfortunate at this point.

[bluntblade]

So I finished this. and I think it's one of those books that is greater than the sum of its parts. Specific plot threads aren't that great (I skimmed the entire Perpetual Arc), but on a big picture level, I think it captures the feel and atmosphere of the Siege, and serves its purpose in moving the Siege to its next phase. 

 

I'd put it above TFW/LATD for sure. 

I'm reminded of the enormous brouhaha which preceded Saturnine coming out, when that book was flawed for me but still immensely enjoyable. At this stage, I don't care for plot summaries as an indicator of quality, when most of it's down to the execution for me.

[Ubiquitous1984]

I finally finished the book last night.  It certainly rewards an intense knowledge of the HH and wider lore (Psi-Titans, Emperor's flagship etc. etc.)

 

I did find it confusing at times and I have spent a good hour or two catching up with the thoughts of way smarter people than myself, such as in this thread and on 40k lore.

 

French himself acknowledges in the afterword (which was excellent btw) how this book is a transitional book, used to get the places to where they need to be for the Final Act.

 

I'm not sure I like the direction that it is going with the perpetual arc as it is confusing as hell.  I also don't like how the Selenar plays such a key role, when they was a feature from a novella and not a main line novel.  

 

But it is still great fun and I can't wait for book 6.

 

I note that John finished the book in July 2020.  ADB has been quite vocal about his Siege meetings recently.  Mr Wraight, comparatively, has been quiet.  Perhaps book 6 is closer to release than we may believe? (unless they sneak out another novella in the mean time?)

Edited March 6, 2021 by Ubiquitous1984

[Ubiquitous1984]

Interesting to see Vassago, a lieutenant of Zahariel, among the Dark Angels.

Ties in with some of the stuff narrated in Luther...

Can somebody please fill me in with details of this, as I have not read Luther?

[Izlude]

I just finished this one as well. I was pretty stocked that John French was doing another book. While I am not a diehard titan fan (even though I bought Adeptus Titanincus for the models) this was the highlight of the book. Wanted to give my impressions for those who have not read it yet although I am sure those will get it when it is general release.

 

General theme: So this book is sort of a nexus book (which I think French mentions in his afterword) which brings in many plots together to set up the last few books in the series. So with that you really jump from one plot to the next in a brisk manner. No chapter was too long and just when some stuff was getting good it moves to the other plot for better or worse. In that manner French has done a fantastic job in that regard. It was clear he did his homework and I think there were some good easter eggs for those who have followed the series from the beginning. I am sure I missed some special appearances and will have to go via the spoilers later. 

 

Strengths: Obviously with the title Mortis, it was always going to be a stand off with the main titan legions. I have to say French did really well here. It was clearly my favorite parts of the book. I really liked Solaria from Titandeath and glad they featured heavily here. The main knight house was also really well done and I enjoyed the drama within that knight house and the ending related to that was really good and satisfying. The unrevealing of the secret titan was well done but I have to say I am not entirely clear what the special powers were and in the overall grand scheme they didn't seem to do much to justify all the drama surrounding said secret titans. 

 

The emperor/horus warp encounter was really good while super short and sprinkled here and there. I love how it follows the overall progression of the war on Terra and the book ends with this warp encounter which is also well done. The other strength of this book was the relevant DA stuff. You get good Corswain action and French weaved in their "super secret" trait well as well. Also I know some people were not a fan of how the IW were handled but I actually thought it fit very well with Perturabo's character, sort of a big baby personality that he always has had. 

 

Weaknesses: I do have to say in general this book took me longer than usual to get through. I would read a few chapters, take a few day break and go back to it. I think it being a nexus book of sorts, you get alot of arcs that honestly I was sort of neutral on. I think French used alot of view points, however small, to give it a big feel to the siege which I think largely accomplished that but honestly it was ALOT of hummie POV. I do appreciate some hummie perspectives but I do feel we had like 90% hummies and 10% SM...I am here for SM! Although not all the SM stuff was strong...for instance the Shiban thing had me yawning and I sort of skipped via it and when I read the last parts of it I don't think I missed anything. I am sure there was some White Scar symbolism thing there. Also the perpetual arc...this one was little painful and I also skipped via it. The perpetual stuff from the last book was great but I know French was setting up this arc for the final showdown. Also that little surprise in the end...still not sure what it was suppose to mean, I'll have to read the spoilers for that one.

 

Conclusion: As a nexus book for the last few books, I think it accomplished it well. French is a very capable writer (a top 3 for me) and were this type of book in someone else's hands I don't think it would have been done as well. I just think there were way too many arcs and would have benefited with more SM stuff although at like 550 pages or whatever it is a big book! In any case Saturine and his first book to start the series are my favorite. I actually enjoyed the Last Wall more that this one as well. Perhaps this one is better than Lost and the Damn which is still a decent book. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Izlude

[Blood-worm's Master]

So how do you interpret

the outcome of the final battle with Mortis? Does the whole contingent of Ignatum die? What about Invigilata and Solaria-Vyronii forces last seen running towards the battle?

[Sviox]

I'm beginning to think I should just cancel my order of Mortis for a refund. I'm still waiting for my pre-order to arrive for store pick-up and only getting excuses like 'covid' and 'brexit' from customer service  

[Triszin]

I'm beginning to think I should just cancel my order of Mortis for a refund. I'm still waiting for my pre-order to arrive for store pick-up and only getting excuses like 'covid' and 'brexit' from customer service

From a logistics perspective, getting ocean cargo unloaded from a freighter is weeks behind schedule right now. It's also generally weeks to find a opening on a cargo load to ship it over ocean

[Ubiquitous1984]

I'm beginning to think I should just cancel my order of Mortis for a refund. I'm still waiting for my pre-order to arrive for store pick-up and only getting excuses like 'covid' and 'brexit' from customer service  

Well, tbf, those are two pretty bloody good and real excuses ... if you cancel your pre-order I am sure somebody else will love to get their hands on a LE book that is selling for £150 on ebay!

So how do you interpret

the outcome of the final battle with Mortis? Does the whole contingent of Ignatum die? What about Invigilata and Solaria-Vyronii forces last seen running towards the battle?

 

I don't think they're all dead, it is such a vast battlefront that some units will have been able to withdraw and regroup for harrying attacks behind the lines.  But as a front-line force they are dead.

 

I'd also like to know what happened to all the PSI-Titans.  Were they all reployed?  What happened to them?  We know one was destroyed, what about the rest?

[Fire Golem]

I managed to get a copy on eBay for, while definitely not a good price, the best price I’ve seen one go for for a while. Not entirely sure it was a good idea, and now pins even more on me being able to get the last 3, but we’ll see how that goes. 
 

I liked it. I don’t think I loved it like I did Solar War and Saturnine, but I still got through it in 2 days where Lost and The Damned and First Wall took me weeks to crawl through. I understand why people might not like it as much though, there’s a lot of Perpetual airtime here, and a lot of Keeler and Sindermann stuff happening, very very little Space Marine stuff (which could be a plus or minus, depending). The Solar War and Saturnine have such standout moments for me (Sigismund fighting the Sons of Horus, Jubal vs Abaddon, Camba Diaz’s last stand, Corswain’s arrival, etc) and I don’t think this book has that as much, but as a transitionary book it was good. Not Solar War/Saturnine good, but much better than books 2 and 3 still IMO. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by fire golem

[Scammel]

So how do you interpret

the outcome of the final battle with Mortis? Does the whole contingent of Ignatum die? What about Invigilata and Solaria-Vyronii forces last seen running towards the battle?

Frankly, bloody good question, and this isn't the point in the series to be skimping on this kind of detail.

[Knockagh]

Man o man there’s a lot in this book. Nearly too much I think. I’ve been a fan of the perpetual storyline from the beginning but honestly found it a bit of a drag in Mortis.

Oll and John bits are either very badly written or maybe it’s just me but they bored me rigid.

Katsuhiro’s story is great little story.

The Titan/knights build up was well done and throughly entertaining.

The emperor and Horus was well done. Although much more could have been made of perturabos retreat. A lot of stuff I would have dropped to get some more about this in.

The arrival of the DA was cool.

Overall I think there’s just way too much in this book. it could easily have lost 100 pages. Some of the threads would be better in an extra book. I know they wanted to keep the number of books to 8 but when people are just cramming things in the story feels crowded.

I’ve loved the seige series so far and although this is my least favourite it still has plenty going for it.

[Taliesin]

I'm still very surprised by the Iron Warriors retreat this early. Not saying its wrong or out of keeping with existing lore (and I dont even care about that because canon lore is being written in this series). I just didnt think such a large portion of the chaos force would be gone by book 5 already, it seems a massive loss for them, especially with Perturabo being so instrumental a Primarch for them. Also a shame to hear that this big event did not get that much attention.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Taliesin

[Bobss]

I rate The Solar War very highly, like top ten Horus Heresy novels highly, and if TSW is Praetorian of Dorn 2.0, then Mortis sure sounds like Slaves to Darkness 2.0 in that it's a book more concerned with setting things up than actually delivering its own story. Dgmw, I enjoyed STD a lot, and think it's an underrated entry in the series, and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one as well (the only John French Horus Heresy entry that I consider to be guff was Tallarn: War for a Broken Book), but that's how it seems to me based on the discussion here

 

And if the Wraight, ADB, Abnett finale knocks it out of the park then that's all good with me

[Knockagh]

I forgot! The Keeler and Sindermann storyline is shaping up really well. These are two of my favourite heresy characters. I forgot because there’s just so many stories going on.

[Knockagh]

Read the afterward and flicked through the Perpetual chapters again to make sure I hadn’t missed too much. Also did a quick skim reread through a few other bits. Still not impressed with the perpetual story.
Things I really didn’t like about this book

- ignoring the iron warriors retreat
- the gardening of Fulgrims lot (really? in the middle of an apocalyptic war, let’s go gardening?) I always thought their passions got the better of them and they lost the plot during the siege. Which would fit in with the early heresy books and their hedonism. But gardening, I just don’t get it. If they had won and had time to do this I could understand it.
- both these points are ignoring the gradual collapse of the heretic army.
-too much waffle, John says he really didn’t want to stop writing these books as he felt something he really enjoyed was ending. You can tell he didn’t want to stop, because he goes on and on and on.
-as ubiquitous says, what happened the psi titans? They were introduced with such fanfare, you were left feeling this would be a real turning point and then they barely feature.
-making the cool perpetuals utterly boring.

Things I did like.
-most of the Titan build up was cool, Titan action was well written.
-Sindermann story all good.
-I liked the Shiban storyline but with the size of the book and number of very very different things going on it would have been better left out.
-the emperor and Horus in the warp is top stuff.

Hard book to read and still overall disappointed. Definitely won’t be one I will reread anytime soon.
But as with these series everything is essential reading. Although by the next release there’s no way I’m remembering a lot of the details from this. Edited April 10, 2021 by Kelborn
spoiler taggs

[Scribe]

I rate The Solar War very highly, like top ten Horus Heresy novels highly, and if TSW is Praetorian of Dorn 2.0, then Mortis sure sounds like Slaves to Darkness 2.0 in that it's a book more concerned with setting things up than actually delivering its own story. Dgmw, I enjoyed STD a lot, and think it's an underrated entry in the series, and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one as well (the only John French Horus Heresy entry that I consider to be guff was Tallarn: War for a Broken Book), but that's how it seems to me based on the discussion here

 

And if the Wraight, ADB, Abnett finale knocks it out of the park then that's all good with me

 

Normally I find I agree with your take on things, and I too enjoyed STD very much.

 

However there seems to be just way too much in this book that I find actually physically offensive based on the spoilers, and even French, who I enjoy his works greatly, cannot save those plotlines for me.

Gardening? I dont even think I want to know. IW retreat not really covered at the cost of...Perpetuals? No, simply no.

 

About the only thing I want to read this for, is the Emperor/Horus stuff, and I doubt I care enough at all at this point to fork over the cash to do that.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Kelborn
spoiler taggs added

[mc warhammer]

maybe it's because i really enjoyed reynold's poetry dropping, bird watching emperor's children or maybe i'm just weird, but the III legion gardening sounds great to me.

[Fedor]

THe lack of focus on the ramifications of the Iron Warriors retreat was very frustrating. That is a huge event on the ground and strategically, one that would have had immediate consequences all over the place.

 

I hope the Shiban plotline is building up to his new Dreadnaught life.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Kelborn
spoiler taggs

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

THe lack of focus on the ramifications of the Iron Warriors retreat was very frustrating. That is a huge event on the ground and strategically, one that would have had immediate consequences all over the place.

 

I hope the Shiban plotline is building up to his new Dreadnaught life.

 

i have been thinking that Shiban might join some other stray souls in the Dread Biters.  Any chance he ends up in the company of a Space Wolf Rune Priest, 2 Salamanders...?

[Bobss]

 

I rate The Solar War very highly, like top ten Horus Heresy novels highly, and if TSW is Praetorian of Dorn 2.0, then Mortis sure sounds like Slaves to Darkness 2.0 in that it's a book more concerned with setting things up than actually delivering its own story. Dgmw, I enjoyed STD a lot, and think it's an underrated entry in the series, and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one as well (the only John French Horus Heresy entry that I consider to be guff was Tallarn: War for a Broken Book), but that's how it seems to me based on the discussion here

 

And if the Wraight, ADB, Abnett finale knocks it out of the park then that's all good with me

 

Normally I find I agree with your take on things, and I too enjoyed STD very much.

 

However there seems to be just way too much in this book that I find actually physically offensive based on the spoilers, and even French, who I enjoy his works greatly, cannot save those plotlines for me.

Gardening? I dont even think I want to know. IW retreat not really covered at the cost of...Perpetuals? No, simply no.

 

About the only thing I want to read this for, is the Emperor/Horus stuff, and I doubt I care enough at all at this point to fork over the cash to do that.

 

 

For what it's worth I've actually cancelled my preorder for the hardback edition of Mortis before I even posted that. Not because I don't intend to read it, but because I double-dip anyway (I really like paperbacks) and I can't justify spending almost 30 Brexitbucks overall on a transition novel. Plus I don't make much and I have other hobbies. So I hear you loud and clear. The Perpetuals are just there and I've accepted them for better or worse, and I have a much bigger beef with whatever Sindermann and Keeler are doing anyway

 

I think Mortis was supposed to be a Haley book. Regardless of what you think about his stuff, you can't deny that Haley can knock out decent content at a reliable pace, and this book would've been his duty to get us from Saturnine to the final stages of the war where the Sanctum is breached and cleared chamber by chamber. So if Abnett was taking his time on Saturnine and maybe Wraight was taking his time on his book, Haley could deliver a quick win for the team sort of thing. From what I can tell this book focuses a lot on characters from Titandeath, and it seems to me like each author wanted to very much focus on their own characters in addition to adopting those of other authors (ADB has VAGUELY suggested Lotara will be in book #7 on Twitter [yes, I stalk you, Aaron] and I'm willing to bet Zephon, Land, Dio, Khârn etc. will be there too, and I will burn Nottingham to the ground if Illya Ravallion is not in Wraight's book seriously please Chris who would've thought a 40+ Munitorum gal would've been such a genuinely amazing character). Kats, a Haley creation, who would've fit into Saturnine but was strangely absent, also reappears in this book, so I think it's possible he was the man for the job. Buuut, considering how Dawn of Fire became a thing and then the Dark Imperum rewrites started, which Black Library seems to want to use as their flagship novels (and rightly so), I imagine Haley was pulled and French tasked with doing double-duty - which would explain why this book took so long to be released after Saturnine, because it quite literally had to be written ASAP. Yes, there's lockdown in the UK to consider, with many authors being parents and having to homeschool etc. I would imagine French only had Abomination on his plate, whereas every else seems pretty tied up. There's Thorpe as well I guess, but A) doing book #3 and book #5 might be too much and Bee) I feel like Thorpe excels at taking something threadbare like the Fall of the Eldar and fleshing it out versus actual numbered entries. I mean, look at how well-received Lorgar./Luther. have been Vs. his Corax work and Angels of Caliban, for example

 

maybe it's because i really enjoyed reynold's poetry dropping, bird watching emperor's children or maybe i'm just weird, but the III legion gardening sounds great to me.

 

It reminds me of Wraight's Death Guard tilling fields on the Plague Planet. As you say, in the Fabius Bile trilogy you had interesting secondary and tertiary characters who had developed and fleshed-out hobbies like poetry(Bellephus) or wine drinking(Alkenex), which is what propels it above its peers in my eyes with a genuinely deep cast. Compare this to Black Legion, where we know next to nothing about Vortigern or Ilyaster. God damn the Bile books were so good

Edited April 10, 2021 by Bobss

[RedFurioso]

 

I imagine Haley was pulled and French tasked with doing double-duty - which would explain why this book took so long to be released after Saturnine, because it quite literally had to be written ASAP. 

The only real question is why Chris' book was delayed if he confirmed at the BL Weekender 2019 that his book is #5, about Lion's Gate Space Port retaking by White Scars, nearly finished and will be released in 2020.

I was absolutely shocked when saw preview of Mortis, because after BL Weekender Chris had yet another full year to finish the book, but apparently French wrote his book faster (afterword of Mortis is dated July 2020).

 

I fear that these changes in release schedule can ruin plot continuity, as happened with Titandeath/Slaves to Darkness.

[theSpirea]

 

 

I imagine Haley was pulled and French tasked with doing double-duty - which would explain why this book took so long to be released after Saturnine, because it quite literally had to be written ASAP. 

The only real question is why Chris' book was delayed if he confirmed at the BL Weekender 2019 that his book is #5, about Lion's Gate Space Port retaking by White Scars, nearly finished and will be released in 2020.

I was absolutely shocked when saw preview of Mortis, because after BL Weekender Chris had yet another full year to finish the book, but apparently French wrote his book faster (afterword of Mortis is dated July 2020).

 

I fear that these changes in release schedule can ruin plot continuity, as happened with Titandeath/Slaves to Darkness.

 

Maybe Bloodlines and The Helwinter Gate got in the way and French's schedule was so packed?